[3.5] Diviner BBEG... how should I do this?

[TheCountAlucard]

So, I'm working on a climactic final session to close out my 3.5ed evil campaign, in which the PCs become major forces of evil in the world.

The party Dread Necromancer, a very ambitious fellow, wants to take over the Spire, the magic school where he learned his craft. The rest of the party is willing to help him attain this goal.

The Spire is an inverted obsidian tower that extends hundreds of feet beneath the earth. It's located on Evernight, an island permanently enchanted with darkness. Seth Averic, a powerful necromancer, has been the Headmaster of the Spire for all of its thousand-plus years of existence.

Surprisingly, the Headmaster is actually a Divination specialist.

Stat-wise, the Headmaster is a Diviner 15/Archmage 5, with the Lich and Evolved Undead templates. I haven't figured out which school I want to bar just yet. (Any advice?)

Here's the concept I had for him. Basically, he sees the future, and he makes sure to make to use this to his advantage. He knows the party is coming, he knows what they're going to try and do, and he's doing what he can to prepare for it. Not only is he a genius (INT 31), he's also very strong and charismatic.

For those who didn't bother reading all that, I'll sum it up here...

How is a Diviner going to prepare to take on a 20th-level adventuring party intent on his demise? What spells should he prepare? What school should he drop?

[Sstoopidtallkid]

He knows everything. At all. His build is the embodiment of Schroedinger. His plans should be beyond perfect, and every spell memorized is needed and Contingencies exactly worded. In other words, make it up as you go.

[Starsinger]

What school should he drop?

Normally everyone would jump down your throat to say Evocation. But since he's all about Divination and foresight, I'd say he'd want to keep Evocation for Contingency.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Normally everyone would jump down your throat to say Evocation. But since he's all about Divination and foresight, I'd say he'd want to keep Evocation for Contingency.Craft Contingent Spell. But maybe. I'd say drop Evocation or Enchantment(if the party lacks Mind Blank at this point, they deserve to lose).

[TheCountAlucard]

His build is the embodiment of Schroedinger.

You don't know how tempted I am to actually go with this idea...


Normally everyone would jump down your throat to say Evocation. But since he's all about Divination and foresight, I'd say he'd want to keep Evocation for Contingency.

So, what would you recommend, then?


If the party lacks Mind Blank at this point, they deserve to lose.

Well, truth be told, my players aren't by no means experts in optimization. For instance, the party Fighter wanted to take an odd number of Fighter levels before taking a prestige class.

[Jothki]

Would he have carried out divinations to the point where he knows exactly where the party is going to step as they go through the tower?

[Starsinger]

So, what would you recommend, then?

I wouldn't recommend specializing period. In the situation at hand, I think a generalist would be better off, since when it comes down to encounter time with the PCs I don't think he'll have an extra divination spell of every level prepared anyways, and since he prefers to use divination all of the time, he'll know exactly when said encounter would be and so shouldn't be caught with say, Scry prepared.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

I wouldn't recommend specializing period. In the situation at hand, I think a generalist would be better off, since when it comes down to encounter time with the PCs I don't think he'll have an extra divination spell of every level prepared anyways, and since he prefers to use divination all of the time, he'll know exactly when said encounter would be and so shouldn't be caught with say, Scry prepared.Maybe the Divination Domain (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#divinationDomain) variant. Same flavor, costing nothing.

[Emperor Tippy]

Well first off he should have 20 contingent Spells (courtesy of Craft contingent Spell) on himself.

If you want to be a real **** make 10 of them Temporal Stasis and 10 of them Freedom.

With the Temporal Stasis activation conditions being things along the lines of "There are currently 10 contingent temporal stasis spells on me and some harmful effect is about to effect me." And the Freedom conditions similar except with "It's my turn and I am under the effects of a Temporal Stasis spell".

Complete immunity to everything for 1 miniute.

Oh yeah, ban evocation.

And remember, mind rape is your friend. You have had a thousand years to mind rape servants. And you have stored every one of them in Smokey Confinement spells, the focus's of which make up the floor of your chamber.

And have a contingent widened shatter on yourself with the activation condition "Arise my servants".

The PC's enter and after the BBEG speech he says "Now, Arise my servants!" and the crystal floor shatters in a 10 foot radius around him. A cloud of smoke appears and as it dissipates you find the room filled with thousands of creatures of legend. Balors, Pit Fiends, Solars, Dragons, Titans, Nightcrawlers, etc.

And as they begin to die the BBEG targets a separate part of the floor and repeats the process.

That would be an epic battle.

[jcsw]

If he's such a good diviner, why would he let the party be prepared for him?
He should either take the fight to them in a completely unrelated event... like while the party is attacking the guards at the entrance to the tower.

[RPGuru1331]

The PC's enter and after the BBEG speech he says "Now, Arise my servants!" and the crystal floor shatters in a 10 foot radius around him. A cloud of smoke appears and as it dissipates you find the room filled with thousands of creatures of legend. Balors, Pit Fiends, Solars, Dragons, Titans, Nightcrawlers, etc.

And as they begin to die the BBEG targets a separate part of the floor and repeats the process.

That would be an epic battle.

Alright, so the part of the game and every guide to running them ever where they say "Fun is relevant". You missed that, didn't you? I know your rep and all , but my god, you realize these people aren't going to be built like that, right?


I wouldn't recommend specializing period. In the situation at hand, I think a generalist would be better off, since when it comes down to encounter time with the PCs I don't think he'll have an extra divination spell of every level prepared anyways, and since he prefers to use divination all of the time, he'll know exactly when said encounter would be and so shouldn't be caught with say, Scry prepared.
Going to second this.

IMO? He shouldn't have anything predetermined. The guy is smarter then you (the DM). He knows more about the future then you. If the players are fine iwth it, I'd pause the battle periodically. "Okay, the BBEG is smarter then me again, I need a few to think."

[TheCountAlucard]

If he's such a good diviner, why would he let the party be prepared for him?
He should either take the fight to them in a completely unrelated event... like while the party is attacking the guards at the entrance to the tower.

Y'know, I was actually thinking of having him calmly standing outside the entrance to the Spire, just to let the party know just how futile their attempt will be. Attacking him reveals that it was just an illusion. :smallamused:


IMO? He shouldn't have anything predetermined. The guy is smarter then you (the DM). He knows more about the future then you. If the players are fine iwth it, I'd pause the battle periodically. "Okay, the BBEG is smarter then me again, I need a few to think."

Y'know, I think I'll have to do this...

[Emperor Tippy]

Alright, so the part of the game and every guide to running them ever where they say "Fun is relevant". You missed that, didn't you? I know your rep and all , but my god, you realize these people aren't going to be built like that, right?
It's the final BBEG fight. There are no guarantees of survival. The evil necromancer is attacking the headmaster of his old wizard school, the guy who has run a place that trains evil and ambitious wizards for a thousand years without loosing his position. That guy also happens to be a Lich, and a very intelligent Lich at that (I assume that the 31 Int was the base Int, pre items, correct?).

If the PC's decide to take him on in his office/lair/chambers then they should face a massive challenge. Perhaps not thousands of legendary monsters but perhaps 4 new ones per round, as the vials fall out of holes in the ceiling and release the monsters. The PC's need to keep the monsters in check while dealing out the odd bit of damage to the BBEG.

It could be a truly epic fight to end the campaign. And as the DM you can always use monsters that are slightly weaker. Perhaps 4 advanced Dire Tigers. 48 HD each.

[TheCountAlucard]

...Stuff that'd get my players to gang up and kill me...

Err, while I appreciate your enthusiasm, I don't think I'll be going with this route. The party's only 20th level, and these guys are supposed to become big villains for my next game. I want it to be a tough fight, but I don't want a TPK.

Also, the whole floor-shattering bit kinda goes against the grain of what I've already got down. See, the Spire is warded against the shatter spell to such an extent that any attempts to try it immediately rebound on the caster, causing intense pain.


That guy also happens to be a Lich, and a very intelligent Lich at that (I assume that the 31 Int was the base Int, pre items, correct?).

Err, no, that was with a Wishbook +5, the Lich template, and the standard Headband +6. And I actually forgot to add INT from leveling - that gives him an INT of 36.

[RPGuru1331]

It's the final BBEG fight. There are no guarantees of survival. The evil necromancer is attacking the headmaster of his old wizard school, the guy who has run a place that trains evil and ambitious wizards for a thousand years without loosing his position. That guy also happens to be a Lich, and a very intelligent Lich at that (I assume that the 31 Int was the base Int, pre items, correct?).

If the PC's decide to take him on in his office/lair/chambers then they should face a massive challenge. Perhaps not thousands of legendary monsters but perhaps 4 new ones per round, as the vials fall out of holes in the ceiling and release the monsters. The PC's need to keep the monsters in check while dealing out the odd bit of damage to the BBEG.

It could be a truly epic fight to end the campaign. And as the DM you can always use monsters that are slightly weaker. Perhaps 4 advanced Dire Tigers. 48 HD each.
I don't think survival should be guaranteed. But really? Countless monsters iwth 20+HD in unending numbers? Even spawning 4 a round is pretty ludicrous. This poster made another thread about it taking 8 hours to go from 8 to 20 for everybody. 2 of his players are new. We're not talking about uber-minmaxing vets. We're talking about normal players, not hte folks you're used to. You really are overestimating what's needed to make the fight a mechanical threat, I mean.

Hell, your 'weaker' suggestion was 48 HD Dire Tigers, when you know these will have inavoidable To-hit ratings..


Y'know, I think I'll have to do this...
Make sure they're cool with it. I mean, this is a final battle. It can be hard ot preserve the epic with periodic breaks like that. It can help to ramble some of your thoughts, rather then thinking in silence (the perhaps natural reaction)

[TheCountAlucard]

A handful of other details...

1) His lair at the bottom floor of the Spire has already been sufficiently warded against teleportation.

2) The subterranean section of the Spire is largely negative-dominant.

3) In addition to the Headmaster, there are a dozen of so less powerful "teachers" there.

4) Humorously enough, the Cleric will be doing very little along the lines of rebuking. Still gotta worry about the Dread Necromancer, though...

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Greater Shadow Evocation = Contingency, but don't ban Evocation because he'd lose Ray of Light (SC), Wall of Force, and Forcecage. I'd get rid of Enchantment, it's the least useful school and the easiest to protect against.

I'd make him Diviner 3/ Master Specialist 10/ Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil 7, unless you've got your heart set on a Diviner variant from UA. Archmage is almost never worth taking more than two levels in, and from a BBEG's perspective there's nothing it offers that's even useful. Warding from IotSV is one of those things that turns a BBEG that would have been dead on the first round into the drawn-out epic battle that he was designed for.

He should use Project Image as the source of his spells, along with Simulacrums for additional distractions. He'd probably stay safe flying invisibly near the ceiling, using Superior Invisibility (SC) and being well out of range of any True Seeing effects. Give him a Ring of Arcane Might (CA) and an Orange Prism Ioun Stone so the Dispel DC for his spells is 33 and the DC to beat a Nondetection on him (such as to use a Divination to see through an Invisibility) would be 37. Give him at least two Simulacrums and two Projected Images from the start, the Simulacrums would be flying and casting lower level no-save spells like (Split) Ray of Light, (Split) Ray of Dizziness, (Split Ray) Enervation, and counterspelling, and he should switch between his Projected Images every round as the source of his spells, though they'll all be mimicking his actions and appear to be casting. Be sure the Images are far enough apart that an area Dispel or a MDJ won't hit more than one. A few Permanent Images of him around the room appearing to be casting constantly would also help distract them from dispelling a Projected Image, especially if they're barely close enough together to hit two with an area dispel. Place a few Programmed Images set to activate once a Projected Image is dispelled, as it would appear that he'd recast one.

This looks like an impossible encounter, which is exactly what he'd want it to be. The PCs should have gotten a tip that he likes to battle under Superior Invisibility, and some indication of where he may be, so that the PCs will actually stand a chance. If they're clever they'll start throwing area Greater Dispels and MDJs around where they think he'd be hiding, which he'd react to by raising a Double Warding wall to prevent his spells from being removed while potentially giving away his position. It will be a game of hide-and-seek while they're being battered by spells from Projected Image and Simulacrums. Give him a Staff containing Extended Project Image, among other spells, just in case they all get dispelled or their durations run out. This will definitely be a very difficult foe for them to overcome, but if they're resourceful and creative they should be able to win.

[TheCountAlucard]

I like your well-thought-out and detailed reply, Biffoniacus_Furiou. I may not take all the advice you've given (though I do like the Project Image idea), but I thank you for it nonetheless.

I've decided to remove the specialization altogether - he'll just be a regular Wizard.

As for advice concerning giving him items, I have a feeling that he's got enough gear already.

...On an unrelated note, do you think 49 AC is a tad high? 'Cuz I haven't given him an Amulet of Natural Armor just yet...

[SoD]

Checking DMG. It lists a level 20 wiz as having AC 23. That is, however, presumably, a wizard with things in front of it to avoid getting hit. The fighter has listed AC 34 (as does monk). Analyse and discuss.

[Tempest Fennac]

If you don't like the standard Divination Domain, could you swap some of the spells, Count Alucard? That would be better then a Generalist due to how you'd get an extra spell/day, and it fits the fluff.

[TheCountAlucard]

If you don't like the standard Divination Domain, could you swap some of the spells, Count Alucard? That would be better then a Generalist due to how you'd get an extra spell/day, and it fits the fluff.

Hmm, you make a good point...

By the way, is Arcane Reach worth taking twice?

[jcsw]

A good way of being prepared is just to make your opponents relatively less prepared than you.

So he could use his long preparation times to introduce bizzare conditions into his lair/headmaster's office...

eg... There's no air in the office! It's a magic vaccum.
Easy to counter with the right spells, but chances are, your PCs won't be prepared for it at all, while your BBEG is completely safe... cause he's undead.

[TheCountAlucard]

There's no air in the office!

Y'know, I had actually already thought of that. Coolies! :smallbiggrin:

[Yukitsu]

Ban transmutation. Most of those are only beneficial if you plan on being in the office at the time that it is attacked.

programmed image: The head master is in the Bahamas on vacation right now. To leave a message, please hit the button after the tone. *beep*.

Button of course drops a bag of holding into a portable hole.

[Mephit]

I agree on the 'prepared for everything' suggestions. He should probably have some resemblance to the OotS Oracle.

Let them kill him, only to see a cleric walk in and cast a True Resurrection spell. :smalltongue:

[Dr Bwaa]

well, he is a lich, so the True Res probably isn't quite what he's looking for :smalltongue:


horrible violence

I want to be a player in your games =D

[Nerd-o-rama]

1. Read Dominic Deegan: Oracle for Hire
2. Base your villain on the main character without changing personality or habits at all
3. Profit

Your diviner is so good, by the way, he can see the mysterious "??????" step for what it is.

[Sethis]

He's a lich.

If I was said lich, and I thought that said party had even the slightest chance to defeat me, I would do the following:


Cast a permanent Undetectable Aura on my phylactery.
Hide it somewhere crazy impossible to find (demiplane on the astral)
Keep spellbook and most of your items there.
Set up the tower so that the PCs must go through many challenges before actually facing you. Thing includes traps, teleportation blockers, illusions, summons, redirects, and minions.
When the party arrives, unleash holy hell. Don't hold back, and attempt to kill and soul trap as many of them as possible. To soul trap, kill one, cast time stop, trap his soul, transport the gem to your demiplane, possibly with a gate cube, do other things for the rest of the time stop duration. Return to killing.
Assuming you were correctly prepared, and you know the strengths and weaknesses of the party, you should have killed a good half of them. If you need more 9th level spells to succeed at the soul trapping, use scrolls prepared by you for this situation. You're incredibly smart after all.
When they kill you (assume this is going to happen), they will search for your phylactery. Hide something in your lair/ school VERY well, trapped, guarded, the works. Cast Nystul's Magic Aura on it, and set it to radiate necromancy magic. Hey look, it's your phylactery! (Secretly, it isn't) but they'll stop looking then.
When they try to raise their friends, they may notice something is messed up. Meanwhile, your body will be regenerating next to your phylactery.
Fully regenerated, prepare your spells and go unleash holy hell on the remaining members of the party.
???
Profit.


Vindictive, manipulative, sly and evil. Sounds like a lich to me.

[Prometheus]

I was going to say have it be a ridiculously easy fight. In reality, the lich has a plan of course. Maybe they think they destroyed the philactory or maybe the lich isn't there and they never find it. Find a way to spin this into the lich's evil plan, such as when the PCs get comfortable, separate and are killed off one by one (at the best possible time to attack).

After all, the lich would know that he would lose a straight fight, so he is willing to pull that stunt

[Sethis]

If he's going to die and give them some trinkets AND his lair, even for a short time, he better make them pay for it. Hence my plan :P

They still feel like they won the first time, then...

[TheCountAlucard]

By the way, Tippy's advice did lead to something - just not on as epic a scale as he intended...

The Doorman

The Doorman is a human lich who guards the Spire's entrance. He sits by the door, reading a thick tome*, and calmly greets those who approach. The doors are locked with the Doorman's Arcane Lock, so that non-magical entry to the Spire requires his permission.

The Doorman used to be a human sorceror who attempted to usurp the Headmaster's power years ago. However, his scheme failed and the Headmaster Mindraped him into being his willing servant. The Headmaster ordered him to become a lich and forever guard the doors to the Spire. The Doorman happily acquiesced.





*The book has Explosive Runes printed on it, keyed to not explode when he reads it.

[Saint Nil]

Give them an NPC who is incredibly useful..who turns out to be a spy for the BBEG. Have them save him, he saves there lives multiple times, and he attacks them from behind in the final battle.

[Eldariel]

...On an unrelated note, do you think 49 AC is a tad high? 'Cuz I haven't given him an Amulet of Natural Armor just yet...

AC 60 would be reasonable. I can't imagine the party combatants having any less than +45 to their attacks (20 BAB + ~12 stat + 5 weapon and a ton of miscellaneous things like morale bonuses, luck bonuses, martial school specialisation bonuses, etc.), and way more if they bother to try. Also, the bulk of a Wizard's defense should come from illusionary magic like X Image (Simulacrum et al.), Mirror Image, Displacement, Contingencies, etc.

Btw, I suggest you make the BBEG bail instead of die. He'll become an awesome "mysterious employer" for your next party. Not to mention, it's a wee bit unrealistic to assume that a Lich who has survived thousands of years would die to a band of at-most 100-year old adventurers. Besides, that way you can go all-out on his defenses without actually forcing the party to penetrate them all. And if they do manage to kill him, all the more power to them. They've earned it. Just make the "default course of action" his climatic escape after the battle has taken a turn for the worse. Like, just before the finishing strike, a contingency goes off, taking him to some warded demiplane he's prepared for himself, from where he can work to exact vengeance through perhaps the next party or such.


Anyways, you could have him do something like have each of the characters face "their worst fear" or whatever before the fight. He knows that all, right? Some illusionary magic, a bit of reality thrown in, maybe some summoned beasts to assist (a Phane (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/abomination.htm#phane) would be really handy even if the terms of agreement relieved the Phane from direct combat - Summon Past Time Duplicate is just such a flavourful ability and makes for an awesome part of the final encounter). I do hope the Diviner isn't planning on fighting alone. That seems simply very dumb. At the very least, a Simulacrum should be present along with a Planar Bound beast (ideally, a Balor), and he could use Images and such to draw the worst fire in the start.

And the battlefield should favour the bad guy. If they're fighting on his ground, no doubt he's got some secret passages, traps he can activate, beasts he can release and so on. Illusionary walls, anti-magic triggers, area dispels, teleportation pods, healing, etc. It should make for a long, interesting fight.

[Jothki]

What condition is the school going to be in during the attack? You could have it be evacuated, shove every non-combatant into a safe area, or have it be up and running as normal right until the PCs attack. If the school is going to stay running, the headmaster could just disguise himself as a random newly-arrived student, let the PCs take over the school, and then take them out one by one as the opportunity arises.

Will the PCs have any means of determining who the headmaster is and where he is located?

[TheCountAlucard]

What condition is the school going to be in during the attack? You could have it be evacuated, shove every non-combatant into a safe area, or have it be up and running as normal right until the PCs attack. If the school is going to stay running, the headmaster could just disguise himself as a random newly-arrived student, let the PCs take over the school, and then take them out one by one as the opportunity arises.

Will the PCs have any means of determining who the headmaster is and where he is located?

Well, Jamben Milner (the Dread Necromancer) has seen the Headmaster before, having been trained there.

As for the school, I'm thinking that, since he's had ample time to predict this happening, the Headmaster will probably have evacuated the students, or at least have them hole up in a Rope Trick.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I'd say make classes at the school going on as usual business, when they approach the Doorman greets them and lets them inside, telling them which way to go to get to the headmaster. He'd be confident in his own ability to defeat them, or possibly have ambushes set up on levels where no students would be. On their way into his chamber they'd pass through no less than four Greater Dispelling Screens (SC), which are Permanencied in the doorway (3.0 Wall of Dispel Magic can be targeted by Permanency). That way they're walking into the fight unbuffed. I'd also consider giving him an intelligent magical dagger similar to the Dagger of Denial (CD), with a dedicated purpose to defend the headmaster of the school (created by him of course) with a special power to cast Greater Dispel Magic at caster level 20 at will, which it would ready to Counterspell every round.

[TheCountAlucard]

Okay, so, I've made up some notecards to give the players for if they are hit by certain spells of his.

Feeblemind "Your Intelligence and Charisma scores have been reduced to 1, giving you the mental capacity of a lizard. If you previously possessed the ability to cast spells, you are now incapable of doing so."

Charm Monster "The Headmaster is now your bestest friend forever! You'd never attack him!"

Mindrape "You retain no memory of your previous identity. You believe yourself to be the seventeen-year-old Lady Susan of the House of Rakmoor, prettiest maiden in all the land, and are attending a dance with one of the male party members, who is your date for the night. You are intensely attracted to him, and the idea of bedding him is constantly crossing your mind."

...was that last one too cruel?

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Okay, so, I've made up some notecards to give the players for if they are hit by certain spells of his. Mindrape "You retain no memory of your previous identity. You believe yourself to be the seventeen-year-old Lady Susan of the House of Rakmoor, prettiest maiden in all the land, and are attending a dance with one of the male party members, who is your date for the night. You are intensely attracted to him, and the idea of bedding him is constantly crossing your mind."

...was that last one too cruel?No, it wasn't cruel enough. Change it to "You retain no memory of your previous identity. You do however retain all combat capability, which you think you gained through private lessons with a tutor to help you defend yourself. You believe yourself to be the seventeen-year-old Lady Susan of the House of Rakmoor, prettiest maiden in all the land, and are attending a dance with one of the male party members, who is your date for the night. You recently caught him in bed with a trollop from the waitstaff and want nothing more than to rip him limb from limb."

[TheCountAlucard]

I made another one for Mindrape.

Mindrape "You retain no memory of your previous identity. You believe yourself to be Daichi Chijiku, master samurai. The Headmaster is your liege, and the party is a group of intruders intent on killing him. You must defend your master, but you must also fight honorably. Failure will result in your suicide."

[Jothki]

Well, Jamben Milner (the Dread Necromancer) has seen the Headmaster before, having been trained there.

Not really good enough, if he hides he'll almost certainly disguise himself magically.

[TheCountAlucard]

Not really good enough, if he hides he'll almost certainly disguise himself magically.

Well, aside from Jamben, there's also a Cleric and a Mystic Theurge in the party, and I'm sure one of them could be bothered to drop a True Seeing or two...

[TheCountAlucard]

I'm also a few feats behind with this guy... any recommendations?

Here are his feats currently...

Scribe Scroll (for being a Wizard)
-Needs a Vile feat for being Vasharan
Skill Focus (Spellcraft)
Spell Focus (Transmutation)
Craft Wondrous Item
Spell Focus (Conjuration)
Extend Spell
Chain Spell
Craft Contingent Spell
Quicken Spell
-Needs fifteenth-level Wizard bonus feat
-Needs eighteenth-level feat

[Sethis]

Take Arcane Thesis in a nice spell (Enervation is a good choice), Take several metamagic feats like Twin, Split ray, Maximize Spell. Apply them to Thesised spell. Prepare many of them. Have a dispel magic ready to stop the Anti-negative energy wards they may have. Hit them with a Twinned Maximized Split Ray enervation for 16 Negative levels.

Do it again.

[Keld Denar]

Quicken and Extend should pretty much be automatic in his lineup. Split Ray is fun and cheap, and should be considered. Craft Wonderous is required to become a lich, as its what you do to create a phylactery, plus, 3/4 useful magic items are wonderous. Something like Minor Shapeshift would give him a pool of refreshable HP that the party would have to chew through every round he doesn't cast a quickened spell. Chain Spell would be great for Dispel Magic and a few other gems. Empower is also a good bang/buck spell for getting decent numbers on any kind of damage spell, better economy than Maximize.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Give him Extend and Persistent spell. Anything he could persist, he does at night before he rests and reprepares spells, so there's up to 16 hrs left on the duration and he still has all his spells/day up. Good spells to use with that would include Shield, Swift Expeditious Retreat, Displacement, Alter Self, See Invisibility, Thunderlance, and anything up to 3rd level with a Swift Action casting time. He should also have cast Energy Immunity x5 and Superior Resistance on the previous day. Also, anything with a range of Touch could be Persisted if he has Arcane Reach from Archmage, so Magic Circle against Good, Heroism, Nondetection, and so many more spells can always be up for him. He should also have every possible Permanencied spell on him, especially Arcane Sight so he knows who to dispel.

I would strongly suggest giving him some sort of PrCs instead of all Wizard levels. Something like Tainted Scholar with Spell Focus: Evil and Malign Spell Focus (BoVD) would be good, since all of his spells would benefit. Loremaster is also a decent PrC, he'd end up missing out on two Archmage levels if he maxes it out but that's no big loss. I'd use this Wizard Variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wizard) to get Fighter bonus feats in place of the standard Wizard bonus feats, and get Combat Reflexes which is amazing with a Thunderlance, as well as Improved Initiative and maybe Improved Toughness if he goes Wizard 10+. If you're doing that you could also give him Mage Slayer and Practiced Spellcaster, so nobody within 15' of him would be able to cast defensively.

Apply the Evolved Undead template (LM) at least 3 times, pick Greater Dispel Magic for all three, and get Quicken Spell-Like Ability at 18. You could also give him Extraordinary Spell Aim (CV) and have him cast Antimagic Field, then just use Project Image as the source of his spells. He'd have to dismiss it if all his images get dispelled, though.

For Craft Contingent Spell, give him one that triggers an Indomitability if something happens that would discharge it, and another that triggers a Harm if the Indomitability gets triggered. I'd probably give him no fewer than three of those, one with the condition that it doesn't trigger unless the previous one already has, the other with the condition that it doesn't trigger unless both the previous ones have. Maybe give him Arcane Thesis: Magic Missile so he can prepare Quickened Fell Drain Magic Missiles as 5th level spells. Arcane Thesis: Enervation and cast it Maximized and Split Ray is also good.

Figure out round-by-round tactics for him. Assuming they walked through Dispelling Barriers on their way in, Round 1: Prismatic Wall to split half the party out of the fight, Quickened Fell Drain Magic Missile on 5 opponents or Quickened Greater Dispel Magic on whoever still has buffs; Round 2: (Rod of) Quickened Split Ray of Light on two spellcasters, Maze or Insanity on a melee character, who aren't on the opposite side of the wall; Round 3: Quickened Fell Drain Magic Missile on 5 opponents or Quickened Greater Dispel Magic on whoever still has buffs, Maximized Split Ray Enervation on a non-undead spellcaster; Round 4: you get the idea.

[TheCountAlucard]

Well, Tainted Scholar wouldn't be too useful to him as a lich, though...

-Having been a lich for over a thousand years, it's unlikely that he'd be able to pony up the blood required for many of his class abilities. Blood component, Blooded Metamagic, Stanch, Bloodseeking Spell - none of them would function.

Plus, I'm not using the Taint rules.

On a side note, though, he has taken Evolved Undead a few times - and I did choose Greater Dispel Magic. That, combined with his Mastery of Counterspelling from Archmage should prove interesting...

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Problem with Counterspelling is he'd have to ready an action every round, basically casting a quickened spell then wasting the rest of his turn if nobody casts anything. There's a feat called Reactive Counterspell (PGtF) that allows him to counterspell without readying an action, but he'd then lose his next round's actions by doing so. Instead you could use the spell Celerity (PH2) to gain a standard action to counterspell when someone casts something you'd want to counter, but he'd be Dazed, though you could use the feat Quick Recovery (LoM) to spend a move-action to remove the condition and still be able to cast the next round. That's why I suggested giving him an intelligent item that could ready to counterspell every round, though having one or more of his lackeys/simulacrums on counterspell duty would also work.

[RPGuru1331]

Do not Mindrape a player. Period. Big, epic battle and you're going to take the agency from a player? I'm sorry, just, no. Save or Dies have no place here.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Yoshiyuki Tomino disagrees.

[/obscure]

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

And if you're going to open with a Prismatic Wall like I suggested, make one of his lackeys a Vampire Harpy Warlock. She'd have Ability Focus: Captivating song along with Fey Heritage and Fey Power (CM) for a +3 DC, plus Cha and HD increases, and she'd try to charm them into walking toward her through the Prismatic Wall. Plus she could use Invocations while singing since none of them have a verbal component.

[arguskos]

Do not Mindrape a player. Period. Big, epic battle and you're going to take the agency from a player? I'm sorry, just, no. Save or Dies have no place here.
Really? The final foe, the guy who is the last person between the PC's and the epic victory, is going to NOT use the best spells at his disposal? Really? I understand your sentiment, but I take umbrage with the idea that this lich WOULDN'T use things like Mindrape, Energy Drain, Enervation, whatever.

Just a differing though for your consideration Alucard.

-argus

[TheCountAlucard]

Do not Mindrape a player. Period. Big, epic battle and you're going to take the agency from a player? I'm sorry, just, no. Save or Dies have no place here.

You have a point... I know I wouldn't be happy about it...


Really? The final foe, the guy who is the last person between the PC's and the epic victory, is going to NOT use the best spells at his disposal? Really? I understand your sentiment, but I take umbrage with the idea that this lich WOULDN'T use things like Mindrape, Energy Drain, Enervation, whatever.

Arrgh, logical paradox!

Then again, there's the whole point someone made earlier - at 20th level, it's not hard to be immune to that sort of stuff, provided someone can toss off a Mind Blank.

Anyway, I talked to Jamben's player today and asked him about his strategy. He said, "Go for the phylactery. There's really no point to killing him if we don't."

That got me thinking about how the Headmaster is going to guard his phylactery. I was thinking something along the lines of using a negative-dominant frozen pocket demiplane with some undead guards.

[Yukitsu]

That got me thinking about how the Headmaster is going to guard his phylactery. I was thinking something along the lines of using a negative-dominant frozen pocket demiplane with some undead guards.

He's a diviner, which implies crazy prepared. Have more than 1!

[RPGuru1331]

You have a point... I know I wouldn't be happy about it...



Arrgh, logical paradox!

Then again, there's the whole point someone made earlier - at 20th level, it's not hard to be immune to that sort of stuff, provided someone can toss off a Mind Blank.

Anyway, I talked to Jamben's player today and asked him about his strategy. He said, "Go for the phylactery. There's really no point to killing him if we don't."

That got me thinking about how the Headmaster is going to guard his phylactery. I was thinking something along the lines of using a negative-dominant frozen pocket demiplane with some undead guards.

I thought you had newer players. Remember, this is a forum of vets. You know your players better then us; Does the wizard prepare a whole line of immunity granting buffs to give them to the party? If not, then /don't/. Hell, even if he does, you're just tossing out a spell that you know will break on immunity. I'm sorry, but "Its not his best spells" doesn't say much. "His best spells" would mean he has an army of Mind Raped Solars, Efreeti, and whatnot. Some DnD spells suck for epic, and that includes a lot of the absolute best ones.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Have at least one fake phylactery with Nystul's Magic Aura (Necromancy) on it, well-hidden, trapped, and guarded. For his actual Phylactery, have him use Genesis to create his own pocket dimension that he, and only he, has access to. There's really no way around it.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

The best thing he could do to guard his phylactery would be to let them think they destroyed it. He'd have created about a dozen additional phylacteries, each of which contains someone else's soul though none of them would have been powerful enough to actually become a lich, they're just dead and their souls are trapped. Set it up so that they would be able to divine the real phylactery's location through powerful/high-level magic. Upon their arrival at its location a contingent effect switches it places with one of the fakes, and they destroy the fake thinking that it was the real one. "That was too easy" would probably never cross their minds, and even if they succeed in destroying him he'd just come back. In the event that his real phylactery is destroyed but he isn't, he can on a moment's notice get one of the dummy phylacteries and simply make it his own, as though he'd taken the time to create a new one. He would then take the proper steps to make sure his defensive measures aren't thwarted again by the same or similar means, destroy whoever was responsible, and create another dummy phylactery.

[TheCountAlucard]

I'm uncomfortable with the idea of him making another phylactery if the old one is destroyed, Biffoniacus_Furiou, especially given the fact that one of my PCs is already a lich as well.

However, the idea of fake phylacteries might not be so bad...

[quick_comment]

Do an indiana jones on them.

In the final room, past the inner sanctum of the lich, is a vast demiplane. It is full of millions of objects, all of which have strong necromantic auras.

And then the actual phylactery is in a demiplane in which time flows ultra fast, and the lich regenerates in seconds or minutes.

The lich should have dozens of animated skeletons all made to look like him (ie, "xykon is a triplet?"). All of them should have items to let them mimic spellcasting. The real lich is of course polymorphed into something tiny and nondescript.

With a lich this old, and this powerful, the tower should be like tucker's kobolds, but instead of kobolds, powerful undead and bound servants directed by an ultra-genius intellect.

Engaging a thousand year old lich oracle on his terms should not be survivable.

[quick_comment]

Some more ideas:

Non-euclidian passage ways, combinded with walls of force, illusory walls and reversed gravity. Once they breach the citadel, the players should have no idea where they are, how to get out and which way is up. With darkness/plane shift traps, they shouldnt even know what universe they are in.

Treasure chests should have bottles of enhanced delayed blast fireballs (set to go off as soon as its opened, because the lich knows when the chest will be opened).

The party walks into a room, and an inwardly turned magic circle against evil goes off. The trap also gates in a greater demon, who is also trapped in the circle with the players. The demon, having been forwarned by the lich that he would be called at this particular time is fully buffed.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

First off, third the private Demiplane, which is Positively aligned. The only one who can enter there is the Lich. Time flows 100x there. If someone besides the Lich is there, time flows 1/10x. The Lich's presence multiplies the time flow there by 10. The entire plane is protected by Alarm spells and every Abjuration he can think of. There is a massive Castle, guarded by uncontrolled undead hordes and every trap he wants, only one path, that ends at a brick wall. Under all of this, at the center of a small mountain that the castle is built upon, is a 300' radius chamber. The entire chamber is an AMF. In the center of that is a Prismatic Sphere, surrounded by Walls of Force, containing a BBB with a large number of Divinations(unless he has the ACF from C.Champ[he should totally have the ACF from C. Champ{wow I sounded like a chick<nested parenthesis FTW>}]), greater Teleport, Planeshift, and a generally utility/survival loadout, as well as his phylactery.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I'm uncomfortable with the idea of him making another phylactery if the old one is destroyed, Biffoniacus_Furiou, especially given the fact that one of my PCs is already a lich as well.

However, the idea of fake phylacteries might not be so bad...

From what I understand, if a phylactery is destroyed but the Lich survives, he can just create a new one by the standard means. Keep in mind it takes 120 days to make one though, so it usually won't be completed by the time his enemies have found and destroyed him. However, if he's made several ahead of time, he'd be able to just re-attune one, especially if he's set it up ahead of time to do exactly that. The point of putting other souls in them is so they'll properly read as a genuine phylactery, but there's no way of knowing whose phylactery it is. The PCs don't need to ever find out about that trick, so chances are they won't be repeating it themselves.

[TheCountAlucard]

From what I understand, if a phylactery is destroyed but the Lich survives, he can just create a new one by the standard means. Keep in mind it takes 120 days to make one though, so it usually won't be completed by the time his enemies have found and destroyed him. However, if he's made several ahead of time, he'd be able to just re-attune one, especially if he's set it up ahead of time to do exactly that. The point of putting other souls in them is so they'll properly read as a genuine phylactery, but there's no way of knowing whose phylactery it is. The PCs don't need to ever find out about that trick, so chances are they won't be repeating it themselves.

Well, at least according to Libris Mortis, a lich cannot make a new phylactery after the old one has been destroyed.

The phylactery text from the Monster Manual seems to suggest the same...

"An integral part of becoming a lich is creating a magic phylactery in which the character stores its life force."

...indicating that the phylactery is created to become a lich, and, since he already is one, he can't make one again.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I'm not sure where I'd read that they can recreate the phylactery, but I see now from LM that it can't. However, a Phylactery is a magic item, and broken or destroyed magic items can be repaired from the pieces for half the original creation cost. So, he intentionally breaks his own phylactery, and makes a dozen copies each for half the cost, each with a missing piece that a part of his original phylactery can complete. One of these has been completed, and is his current phylactery. In the event that it's destroyed, he can then complete one of the others with another piece from his original one.

[TheCountAlucard]

However, a Phylactery is a magic item, and broken or destroyed magic items can be repaired from the pieces for half the original creation cost.

Damaged items, yes. Broken or destroyed items, nope. When a magic item is broken, the magic within it is forever destroyed.

[Nerd-o-rama]

I never knew that liches couldn't remake their phylacteries. I always assumed that's why everyone killed the lich first and then smashed the thing.

That's intriguing news...

[Yukitsu]

It's why I made mine an aurorum lode stone.

[hamishspence]

right kind of magic (Aumvor's shattered phylactery from Champions of Ruin) means a long quest to destroy the many parts. Or destroy them first, then kill lich. Mmm, Horcrux-iffic!

[TheCountAlucard]

right kind of magic (Aumvor's shattered phylactery from Champions of Ruin) means a long quest to destroy the many parts. Or destroy them first, then kill lich. Mmm, Horcrux-iffic!

...Err, I'm wanting to make this last one session. Seriously.

[TheCountAlucard]

Okay, Playgrounders, I've got the Headmaster finished. I've also made a few minions for him. Now, a question...

What about Simulacrum? Does the simulacrum retain the lich and evolved undead templates? Does it cast as a 10th-level Wizard? Do I use the Headmaster's base ability scores to determine those of the simulacrum, or do I use the adjusted ones that Lich/Evolved Undead have given? How many is too many?

[arguskos]

Okay, Playgrounders, I've got the Headmaster finished. I've also made a few minions for him. Now, a question...

What about Simulacrum? Does the simulacrum retain the lich and evolved undead templates? Does it cast as a 10th-level Wizard? Do I use the Headmaster's base ability scores to determine those of the simulacrum, or do I use the adjusted ones that Lich/Evolved Undead have given? How many is too many?
Yes, I believe the simulacrum keeps the templates. It would cast as a wizard of half his level, I think. Use the adjusted scores, since it keeps the templates. Lastly, you can never have enough. :smallbiggrin:

NOTE: I am not an expert, so if someone else with more authority to say contradicts me, go with their thoughts.

[TheCountAlucard]

Well, the session went ahead as planned. The PCs took on the Headmaster of the Spire in a battle of epic proportions.

It started with the party Cleric using some of his divination magic to try and gather info concerning the Headmaster. He burned his way through seventeen questions before he found out that the Headmaster knew the PCs' plans and had prepared for them in advance. Thanks to a good bluff by the Headmaster, however, the PCs thought that a Vitreous Drinker was spying on them and informing the Headmaster, rather than the Headmaster actually gathering the information himself. They kill the Vitreous Drinker, thinking that they've just effectively blinded the Headmaster to their plans.

After a few more days of readying themselves, the party storms the Spire. They make their way to the Headmaster's office, where the door hits the Death Knight Fighter with a Heal. There's also an exploding desk, a Mind Fog in front of a Mirror of Life Trapping, and a Feeblemind behind said mirror.

Well, after the mayhem is over, the party fights the real Headmaster, who tosses off a few spells, including a Prismatic Sphere. Well, the Barbarian rushes in anyway, and surprisingly makes all the saves, except for the last Will save at the end, and ends up getting Plane Shifted to the Positive Energy Plane. The Cleric quickly Plane Shifts after him while the Dread Necromancer teleports past the Prismatic Sphere to pursue the Headmaster.

Very climactic battle between the two, until the Headmaster fails an attempted counterspell, taking the full blast of a Disintegrate.

The session would've been more awesome if one of the players hadn't gotten so upset about my not wanting him to play in the next campaign, but it was a fun session nonetheless.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Sounds like it was fun. Also makes sense that the party apparently got hit harder by traps and defensive spells moreso than the wizard himself, and that the diviner pretty much died to bad luck rather than bad strategy.

You took our advice on making his backup-of-a-backup-of-a-backup phylactery, right? As in, multiple levels of fakes so he won't be finished off?

Not saying he should come back in this campaign, mind you, but a skilled lich should always have a contingency plan.

[TheCountAlucard]

You took our advice on making his backup-of-a-backup-of-a-backup phylactery, right? As in, multiple levels of fakes so he won't be finished off?

Not saying he should come back in this campaign, mind you, but a skilled lich should always have a contingency plan.

Well, he had a personal demiplane constructed to house his phylactery - I forgot to mention this earlier - which the party Plane Shifted to in order to retrieve it. They encounter several undead before finding not one, but three different phylacteries. The Headmaster, you see, had left his phylactery there so that when the Cleric used his divinations, it would read as being on that demiplane, but after that, he swapped his phylactery for the others and returned to the Spire.

The party soon realized that none of the phylacteries belonged to the Headmaster, and decided that the easiest way to obtain the phylactery would be to do it after the Headmaster was defeated.

Just to spite him, rather than destroy the phylactery, the party built a Grisgol out of it and put it in an undisclosed remote location. I'm so proud of them. :smallbiggrin:

[Eldariel]

Btw, just one question about the fight, how did the Cleric know where the Barbarian ended up? Did he Scry the Barbarian or something? 'cause that could've been fairly major. No positive energy explosions = sadface though :(

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Note that Plane Shift requires a special spell focus, sort of a key to get into the desired plane. Without the proper key, they never would have been able to Plane Shift to his personal pocket plane in the first place, though Gate could get them there just fine.

Edit: and I doubt he happened to have the proper key to Plane Shift to the Positive Energy Plane, either.

[TheCountAlucard]

Note that Plane Shift requires a special spell focus, sort of a key to get into the desired plane. Without the proper key, they never would have been able to Plane Shift to his personal pocket plane in the first place, though Gate could get them there just fine.

Edit: and I doubt he happened to have the proper key to Plane Shift to the Positive Energy Plane, either.

Normally that's the case, but he has it as a spell-like ability. Forgot to mention, he's not a Cleric 20, but a Cleric 10/Divine Agent 10.

EDIT: Besides, the focus for Plane Shift is a tuning fork keyed to that plane. Since there's no price tag on them, there's no reason to assume he wouldn't have one in his spell component pouch. The demiplane, of course, is a whole other thing entirely, but like I said, his Plane Shift is a spell-like ability anyway.

[Twilight Jack]

Anyway, I talked to Jamben's player today and asked him about his strategy. He said, "Go for the phylactery. There's really no point to killing him if we don't."

That got me thinking about how the Headmaster is going to guard his phylactery. I was thinking something along the lines of using a negative-dominant frozen pocket demiplane with some undead guards.

No. He's a diviner. He knows he's going to lose this battle. Perhaps, after a thousand or more years as a lich, he's ready to lose. The goal now is to impress upon his killers the nature of the job they've "inherited." You've mentioned already that you want the current party to become the villains in a future game you're planning. Since you as the DM want the party to prevail in this fight (a TPK would derail your future campaign), don't go for bloody destruction. Go for horror.

First, he's researched and cast a spell which irrevocably binds anyone with a direct hand in his death to the academy, forever. It's like a contingent geas, except it cannot be overcome by any non-epic means, including wish. They want to run this place? They've got it. Now, by "bind", I do not mean that they are unable to leave. Instead, their every waking moment must now be spent solely in service to the academy. Perhaps the spell wasn't even put in place by our current headmaster. Perhaps the previous headmaster had originally used it to trap his own murderer (our blessed lich). That means it's an epic level spell, so you have the luxury of looking your players in the eye and telling them they can't get out of it.

Second, having forseen exactly who was coming to kill him decades ago, he's hidden his phylactery inside one of them. To hell with weird pocket dimensions and undead guardians. To hell with a straight fight. His phylactery is safely nestled in the brain of one of the PCs, along with a primed soul gem set to plane shift itself directly to the throne room of Asmodeus upon its collection of a soul. Make sure the headmaster tells them this before his body is destroyed, although he should leave out the bit about the soul gem. In order to finish the job, the party must irrevocably murder one of their own. That should fix their little red wagons and keep them talking for years.

EDIT: Oh, damn. The session's already done. I'm a bit late to the party, I see. . .

Oh well.

[Starbuck_II]

Second, having forseen exactly who was coming to kill him decades ago, he's hidden his phylactery inside one of them. To hell with weird pocket dimensions and undead guardians. To hell with a straight fight. His phylactery is safely nestled in the brain of one of the PCs, along with a primed soul gem set to plane shift itself directly to the throne room of Asmodeus upon its collection of a soul. Make sure the headmaster tells them this before his body is destroyed, although he should leave out the bit about the soul gem. In order to finish the job, the party must irrevocably murder one of their own. That should fix their little red wagons and keep them talking for years.

If you do that make sure the Phylactery is hidden in a non-spellcaster. Why you ask?
Teleport and dimension door let you choose what to bring with you (creature/objects): if they know it is them: they can choose not to bring it and it won't after that.

But still good horror idea.

[Twilight Jack]

If you do that make sure the Phylactery is hidden in a non-spellcaster. Why you ask?
Teleport and dimension door let you choose what to bring with you (creature/objects): if they know it is them: they can choose not to bring it and it won't after that.

But still good horror idea.

Yeah, but that's easily bypassed. It's not like a dimension door'ing character could choose to leave a cyst behind. Or his own evil hand. If you're researching a spell to implant a magic item inside someone's body, then it would make sense that part of that spell would be based around ensuring that it in all ways seemed like an actual part of his body.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Well, he had a personal demiplane constructed to house his phylactery - I forgot to mention this earlier - which the party Plane Shifted to in order to retrieve it. They encounter several undead before finding not one, but three different phylacteries. The Headmaster, you see, had left his phylactery there so that when the Cleric used his divinations, it would read as being on that demiplane, but after that, he swapped his phylactery for the others and returned to the Spire.

The party soon realized that none of the phylacteries belonged to the Headmaster, and decided that the easiest way to obtain the phylactery would be to do it after the Headmaster was defeated.

Just to spite him, rather than destroy the phylactery, the party built a Grisgol out of it and put it in an undisclosed remote location. I'm so proud of them. :smallbiggrin:I see.

Convoluted enough to satisfy my sense of drama, at least, and I'm sure your players felt the same. Congrats.

[TheCountAlucard]

...and now that the evil campaign's over, I've finally got some spare time to work on the good campaign. :smallbiggrin:

[Zen Master]

How is a Diviner going to prepare to take on a 20th-level adventuring party intent on his demise? What spells should he prepare? What school should he drop?

I think a real diviner will be almost impossible - not to beat, but to corner. He will have charts of calculated chances and portents, astrology, numerology and what-not, and when the players arrive, it will be obvious that he just left. Not in any hurry, either. Well planned and care free, he strolled out just before they could catch him.

The only way to beat him would be ... to somehow foul his predictions. An alliance with Lady Luck to alter the likely outcome, or bargain with the All-Creator to cheat ever so slightly on a single, significant constellation. Without resorting to Gods, one might act randomly (roll dice or something) for all actions an entire game session, to throw him off track.

Writing this, I like the idea of it. I'm doing that. My Gods, but he will be annoying.

[Doresain]

what if...the lich they fought was actually a mindraped minion of the real headmaster...the necromancer in the party recognized this as the "headmaster" he knew, because he (like all the students) was mindraped after leaving the school...