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arkanis
2008-11-02, 03:41 AM
So my fascination with Fable 2 and 4.0 D&D have hit a conversion point.

Guns in 4.0. I haven't found a resource with them yet so I've made my own and was hoping to make a low magic campaign revolving around similar conflicts found in Fable 2. I was wondering if anyone had come up with some useful items or abilities they think would be appropriate for a gunsling steampunk campaign using 4.0 D&D rules or possibly critique what I have here:

CURRENCY CONVERSION
Some items have become cheaper or more expensive as listed below:
Animals: Animals come pretrained knowing a number of tricks equal to their Int score squared. The cost of an untrained domesticated animal is 1/5 the normal cost and the cost of a wild untrained animal (or its meat and pelt) is 1/10 the normal cost.
Armor: Due to armor being uncommon all armors have doubled in price except those made of clothwear.
Clothwear: Due to improved technology, simple nonwearable items made of cloth, leather, hide, fur, wool, silk, hempen, or cotton have dropped to 1/2 their original price.
Glasswear: Due to improved technology, glasswear such as hourglasses, spyglasses, mirrors, have dropped to 1/10th their original price.
Metalwear: Due to improved technology, simple noncombat items made of metal such as chain, manacles, keys, horse shoes, poles, pots, kitchenware have dropped to 1/2 their original price.
Paperwork: Due to improved technology, paper and ink have dropped to 1/10th their original price.
Weapons: Due to non-modern weapons being uncommon, all exotic weapons have doubled in price.

FIREARMS
{table="head"]Weapon Name| Prof| Dmg| Range| Ammo| Weight| Size| Cost
Light Bayonet| +2| 1d4| M1| n/a| +1 lb.| Light| +5 gp
Heavy Bayonet| +2| 1d8| M1| n/a| +2 lb.| Two-handed| +10 gp
Musket| +2| 2d4| 5| 1| 5 lb.| Two-handed| 20 gp
Pistol| +2| 1d8| 5| 6| 1 lb.| Versatile| 30 gp
Revolver| +2| 1d10| 5| 6| 2 lb.| Versatile| 40 gp
Shotgun| +2| 2d6| 5| 2| 8 lb.| Two-handed| 50 gp
Rifle| +2| 1d12| 20| 2| 10 lb.| Two-handed| 60 gp [/table]

Gunfire: Gunfire is treated as both piercing and thunder damage.

Guns: All guns have the high crit property. All versatile guns also have the unsteady properties. Reloading is a minor action half a clip or standard for full. This holds true only if the character is proficient with the weapon, otherwise increase all these actions length by one (minor->standard->1-round). Muskets are the exception as their reload time is always a 3 standard actions. A character does not need to reload until their gun's ammo capacity runs out. When buying a gun a free box of ammo is included. Buying another box of ammo costs and weighs 1/10 that of the gun (excluding the 1st one). Each box of ammo contains enough bullets to fill the gun five times.

Bayonets: There are two types of each size of bayonet. Light bayonets can be light blades or axes. Heavy bayonets can be heavy blades, axes, spears or lances. The design determines which proficiency is needed to wield a bayonet properly.

Shotguns: A shotgun does not fire at a particular target but rather its firing works as a blast 1. Whenever a character fires a shotgun at a target they make an attack roll against all creatures in the same square as the target (if any). If a shotgun hits a swarm which occupies only 1 square or less, it ignores all the swarm's resistances to damage.

RPGuru1331
2008-11-02, 03:50 AM
Might I recommend that it's a Minor action for 2 bullets, and that you stick to the rules for reloading multiples within a move?

That aside, the guns.. seem a bit overpowerful, but only due to all possessing High Crit. I'd also make ammo a bit cheaper, in line with arrows. Paying for ammunition is really just a nuisance at higher levels and a bit crippling (as you have it set up) at lower, so I'm trying to avoid that crippling part.

Somebloke
2008-11-02, 04:46 AM
I've been using magic missile and scorching burst to simulate guns and grenades, with the reload effectively making them encounter powers.

Personally, I'm looking to change this. I mainly did it due to the lack of magic-using classes in the campaign, but the weapons lack oomph.

Ceiling009
2008-11-02, 11:26 PM
The problem I've found with trying to make firearms workable in 4e, is that (especially in a setting that isn't very... umm standard) fighters and classes that are traditionally melee based get pretty much screwed. In the end, I've made them like the repeat crossbow... but then I've had some thoughts on making the Gunslinging Ranger a la Equilibrium...it's hard to figure that one out.

Shadow_Elf
2008-11-02, 11:31 PM
The races link in my homebrew link in my sig has some 4e Firearms you might like, including Hand Pistol, Blunderbuss, Sniper Rifle and Shoulder Canon :smallbiggrin:

Keep in mind that the firearms I made were created to work in a campaign that still has bows and Xbows, so they do not replace them.

Nefarion Xid
2008-11-03, 12:27 AM
First off, I don't believe 4th Edition includes Piercing as a damage type. Second, you haven't provided a Proficiency rating with these weapons.

I'm playing a gunslinger (re-flavored, but mechanically identical Ranger) in my home game and one here on the boards. At first I just used a revolver with identical stats to the Superior Crossbow (AV). But, I decided I'd give a shot at homebrewing and came up with...

Revolver (Superior One Handed Ranged Weapon)
{table]Prof.|Damage|Range|Price|Weight|Group|Properties|
+2|1d10|15/30|50 gp|5 lb.|Firearm|Load Free*, Versatile, Unsteady[/table]

The Versatile property works as it does on any other weapon.
The Unsteady property grants the wielder a +1 Attack bonus for holding the weapon with 2 hands - it's like Versatile, but with accuracy.
"Loading" the weapon counts as a free action for 6 shots. Reloading 6 bullets into the cylinder is a Standard Action.
It counts as a firearm so it can't be used to deliver sneak attacks like a crossbow.

It's balanced. It dishes out a little more damage than the Superior Crossbow while maintaining the accuracy, but it won't give you a sneak attack and after 3 rounds of Twin Strikes? Fun's over, time to reload.

(Yes, you can certainly carry more than one revolver and go for your spare after one's empty...but your spare probably won't be on par, enchantment wise, and after round 6 you're back to square one.)

Edit: Bullets cost as much as crossbow bolts and weigh the same.

KKL
2008-11-03, 01:16 AM
Blast 1 is the same as a non-reach weapon's melee range.

Pirate_King
2008-11-03, 07:57 PM
Have you ever reloaded a musket? Bet you can't do it in 6 seconds. A skilled soldier could fire 3 times in a minute, so that's over 3 full round actions to load. Best to make it an encounter power, or something, or just cut muskets out of the campaign setting.

arkanis
2008-11-04, 08:44 PM
I'm still new to 4.0 so a minor action never crossed my mind, but yeah that'd definately be more appropriate.

A musket would do better as an encounter power that the item bestows.

Proficiency +2 should be good. And reloading half a clip is a standard action unless you have proficiency in which case its a minor action.

Would it be easier to say each gun grants an encounter power of a shot and then an at-will power requiring a minor/standard action to recharge said power?

Fighters would not be screwed in a gunslinging adventure any more than in a magicslinging adventure, although that doesn't necessarily mean they aren't screwed...

Versatile & Unsteady are good ideas.

Vadin
2008-11-04, 09:18 PM
Have you ever reloaded a musket? Bet you can't do it in 6 seconds. A skilled soldier could fire 3 times in a minute, so that's over 3 full round actions to load. Best to make it an encounter power, or something, or just cut muskets out of the campaign setting.

"In history, this would be highly improbable, best to make it rarely usable, or just not do it all."

That, sir, is constructive. And in a setting where dragons and fey are common fare, absolute historical accuracy for guns in that one time period is an absolute necessity.

I think the stats are pretty balanced as long as the DM remembers to make the character reload every 6 shots.

Pirate_King
2008-11-04, 10:34 PM
"In history, this would be highly improbable, best to make it rarely usable, or just not do it all."

That, sir, is constructive. And in a setting where dragons and fey are common fare, absolute historical accuracy for guns in that one time period is an absolute necessity.

I think the stats are pretty balanced as long as the DM remembers to make the character reload every 6 shots.

in a low-magic campaign? I figured he was going for something a bit more realistic. and it's not that one time period, it's muzzle loaders in general. historically speaking, when muzzle loaders were commonly used by military, they would naturally fire them as fast as possible.