[3.5] Cheese Needed!

[Mushroom Ninja]

What would happen if a DM actually let all the cheesy things spawned by the CO boards happen in a campaign? This question has been gnawing at my mind for some time, and, recently, I've begun to ponder a campaign setting where all cheese happens...

The Setting:
Basically, a long time ago all the cheesy builds and exploits were unleashed on a stereotypical D&D world. All Kobalds ascended to godhood. Cities were destroyed by anti-osmium bombs and peasant railguns. Casters Chain-Gated solars and had huge wars. Etc. Etc.

But, the world survived and adapted.

In this campaign setting, everything would be designed to be cheesy. All the PCs would have to be completely OP just to survive the world.

This setting is about how society adapts to ridiculous cheese.

What I Need:
I need links and lists of all the cheesiest of the cheesy builds and exploits of 3.5. I don't know if or when I'm ever going to run this campaign, but to fully explore concept of a world where ridiculously over-powered characters are the norm, I need to know what the stinkiest stinky cheese is.

Thanks for your help!

[hamishspence]

I think we call it Tippyland :smallwink:

[jcsw]

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=897351

[Mushroom Ninja]

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=897351

Mwahahaha... exellent...:smallbiggrin:

[Flickerdart]

Don't forget Chuck the Ruby Knight Vindicator's Messenger Service and the Jumplomancers that leap around to make people fanatic.

[Laurellien]

One Kobold would ascend, and then would stop the others doing that. Or the Omnissifer would stop them all and own the universe, using his absurdly awesome skills to get the kobolds eliminated, and then have himself turn into a kobold.

Basically, the world would entirely be dependent on the Omnissifer's alignment, as it would be his to control.

[hamishspence]

Ah, but if multiple cheesemeisters arise simultaneously, conflict, then settle into uneasy balance of power, that would fit.

[Eldariel]

Ah, but if multiple cheesemeisters arise simultaneously, conflict, then settle into uneasy balance of power, that would fit.

Lawful Good Kobold Paladins ascend the fastest, so there would be very few ascending initially. Also, since Pazuzu's folly (that is, dethroning himself by granting a wish, which happens to lead to a divine ascension) also makes the Paladins a bit less good, there'd be a number of Lawful Neutral or Lawful Evil Gods (depending on how much they abuse the poor Pazuzu), so additional ascensions seem unlikely.

[Heliomance]

Actually, Pun Pun beats the Omniscificer now. PunPun ascends at level 1, Omniscificer takes until level 4.

[hamishspence]

it says Pazuzu grants wishes to paladins- he might stop doing it after the first Pun-pun and say- "No way! I know what you're up to"

Archfiends do get discretion on whether they answer calls and hand out wishes.

[Flickerdart]

Yeah. Paladin the first ascends, kills the evil Pazuzu, and that's about it. However, we can have as many Omniscificers as we want, since they don't depend on any one being (and can Dimplomancy the Pun-Pun god if they need to, their result will always be higher than his). Sure, Pun-Pun can know about them, but he's a Lawful Good (or Neutral) being. He'll only kill the evil ones that intend to slay him or whatever. Then the Omniscificers will learn how to do everything, build a spaceship instantly with infinite Craft and fly away. The less Neutral ones may decide Pun-Pun is an usurper and convince the remaining gods to try and kill him. Of course, that doesn't work, and Pun-Pun now lords alone over the world. He kills the Omniscifier in a fit of fury, falls, becomes a Blackguard and turns the world into W40K.

[Oslecamo]

Basically, the world would entirely be dependent on the Omnissifer's alignment, as it would be his to control.

I think he's called "DM".

[Siegel]

What is an Omnissifer ?

[hamishspence]

from what I've heard, it involves an item from Vile Darkness and an infinite loop, to push Knowledge all the way to infinity. Except- knowledge doesn't necessarily come with ability to do anything with that knowledge.

[Khosan]

What is an Omnissifer ?

Off the top of my head, the Omniscifier (or however it's spelled) took advantage of an ability that increased your skills and whatnot for every 10 damage you took, an infinite damage loop, and one more ability that let you continue to act for some amount of time when below 0 HP. When they'd accomplished whatever task they'd set out to do, they drowned themselves in a bucket of water to bring themselves back to normality.

[theMycon]

Except- knowledge doesn't necessarily come with ability to do anything with that knowledge.
I don't believe in Qualia.

If you know everything about X, you know the simplest way to achieve X. If X is "everything, period," in a world with countless gods, capable of routinely creating solid objects out of thin air, you would be able to do anything. It may be so convoluted as "God A loves wheatgrass smoothies, god B is in love with god A, and god C has a sense of humor & owes god B a small favor. God C can actually do what I want, and I'm certain this falls under "funny" and "small favor" for god C. So I can bribe A to ask B to ask C, and thus I know how to make 50,000 pounds of Carolina Blue orchids spontaneously appear with only this wheatgrass smoothie." If you are absolutely certain of everything, with true infinite knowledge, this is exactly as obvious for him as 1+1=2 is for us.

How 50,000 lbs of blue flowers* leads to divine omnipotence, and how you obtained a wheatgrass smoothie in pseudo-feudal Europe are beyond mortal ken, but that's kind of the point of knowing everything. You'll have a plan.


*Or whatever you wished for.

[Flickerdart]

Incorrect. The Omniscificer gained a +infinity modifier to every single skill. Knowledge is only emphasized in the build as a tool to locate the pre-Pun-Pun Kobold and slay it. So, it not only knows everything, but also has the means to do it.

With such a high Craft [Smoothie] result, he could indeed craft a wheatgrass smoothie from nothing. As well as the flowers, the gods and the concept of love.

[hamishspence]

Skills are one thing- spells, HP and feats another. And Diplomacy might not work if target can see you. You hear someone is doing an Omniscifier, you arrive just as they stop, you shoot at them before they get too close and Diplomance you.

[Kurald Galain]

Sure, Pun-Pun can know about them, but he's a Lawful Good (or Neutral) being.

Nope. Pun-Pun is whatever the heck alignment it wants to be (not to mention the fact that starting the Pazuzu trick initially moves you away from LG)

[Flickerdart]

Nope. Pun-Pun is whatever the heck alignment it wants to be (not to mention the fact that starting the Pazuzu trick initially moves you away from LG)
Well, I know. But he was originally LG, and so there's little reason for him to drop past LN. But even if he was LE, the result is the same, since in my scenario he falls, hard.

[Mephit]

*snip*
...and can Dimplomancy the Pun-Pun god if they need to, their result will always be higher than his.
*snip*

I don't see how this is correct, since Pun-pun has an infinite Cha score.

I have yet to see a build that can somehow beat Pun-pun... >_>
Then again, I'm no expert on cheese.

[Yukitsu]

I don't see how this is correct, since Pun-pun has an infinite Cha score.

I have yet to see a build that can somehow beat Pun-pun... >_>
Then again, I'm no expert on cheese.

His approaches infinite, but isn't looped. Omnificier has an actual infinite value. Last I checked, anyway.

[Heliomance]

I believe Pun-Pun's charisma score is limitless, rather than truly infinite. He can gt it as high as he likes, but he can never reach true infinity.

[Callos_DeTerran]

I don't see how this is correct, since Pun-pun has an infinite Cha score.

I have yet to see a build that can somehow beat Pun-pun... >_>
Then again, I'm no expert on cheese.

It's easy. You don't play in the forgotten realms. Or erase every last tidbit of knowledge about the creature with the ability Pun-pun needs so no kobold can ever learn of them. I suppose an Ominssfer could know how to erase that knowledge..

[Copacetic]

I don't see how this is correct, since Pun-pun has an infinite Cha score.
I have yet to see a build that can somehow beat Pun-pun... >_>
Then again, I'm no expert on cheese.


Incorrect, Oun-Pun has the potential for a very large score. However, the Omni-whatits has an infinite bonus. Meaing even if Pun-Pun lived a million trillion years and used that trick to boost his CHA score, The Omni would still win.


EDIT:^&^^ Bad ninja(s), No Cookie.

[Emperor Tippy]

Pun-Pun by RAW can invent his own abilities, things like "My attributes and skilsl are always treated as being 1,000,000 points higher than the entity with the next highest attribute or skill modifier."

[hamishspence]

I've just realized- infinite CON, infinite HP. Sorry.

[Flickerdart]

Pun-Pun by RAW can invent his own abilities, things like "My attributes and skilsl are always treated as being 1,000,000 points higher than the entity with the next highest attribute or skill modifier."
Ok, so he still kills everyone, still falls, and still 40K.

[Irreverent Fool]

One Kobold would ascend, and then would stop the others doing that. Or the Omnissifer would stop them all and own the universe, using his absurdly awesome skills to get the kobolds eliminated, and then have himself turn into a kobold.

Basically, the world would entirely be dependent on the Omnissifer's alignment, as it would be his to control.

These are called gods. Eventually, they get bored and kick back doing their god thing. How do you think the original cosmology got there in the first place? The world becomes less about these beings and more about how a world copes with with armies of ubercharges, hulking hurlers, epic magic, locate city bombs, level 9 spells metamagiced to level 1 slots, and druids.
obnoxious
sig

[monty]

epic magic

More gods.


locate city bombs

Don't work.

[Carrion_Humanoid]

What about Peasant Railguns? Can someone give me a link?

[Khosan]

What about Peasant Railguns? Can someone give me a link?

If I have it remembered correctly, line up a bunch of commoners in a row. Give a peasant on one end a quarterstaff. Have the rest of the peasants ready an action to give the quarter staff to the next peasant in line when they receive it. Then start the quarterstaff moving.

If your peasant chain is long enough, the quarterstaff ends up moving ludicrously fast. I don't remember if it could actually accomplish anything other than move a stick really far in some direction.

[Mushroom Ninja]

What about Peasant Railguns? Can someone give me a link?

Well, they were discussed here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94044) along with other ways of screwing with physics in 3.5:smallbiggrin:

EDIT: In short, you get an item moving so ridiculously fast that it breaks the sound barrier and throw it at something. Much damage ensues.

[olelia]

Well actually it only does 1d6 plus strength RAW since increased velocity speeds aren't calculated...just falling damage >.>

[SadisticFishing]

Well, I don't know, but this whole idea seems like it would be like epic play - but even worse.

"Okay, my initiative check is three infinity plus four..."
"Yeah, well, I've got a +4, but I always go first, no matter what."
"I am [Insert Greater Deity of any opposing alignment or ideals]! I also always go first, but I have a +7! I roll natural twenty on everything and kill you all."
"No, wait! I knew all that was going to happen, and how to change it so that I win everything!"
"But I knew too.. and I always go first! And even if we had to compare initiatives to see who's always goes first would go first this time, I always roll natural twenty, so you'll never beat me at it..."
"Crap. Luckily, I know everything, so I build a time machine to go..."

Et cetera, et cetera.

[BobVosh]

Well, I don't know, but this whole idea seems like it would be like epic play - but even worse.

"Okay, my initiative check is three infinity plus four..."
"Yeah, well, I've got a +4, but I always go first, no matter what."
"I am [Insert Greater Deity of any opposing alignment or ideals]! I also always go first, but I have a +7! I roll natural twenty on everything and kill you all."
"No, wait! I knew all that was going to happen, and how to change it so that I win everything!"
"But I knew too.. and I always go first! And even if we had to compare initiatives to see who's always goes first would go first this time, I always roll natural twenty, so you'll never beat me at it..."
"Crap. Luckily, I know everything, so I build a time machine to go..."

Et cetera, et cetera.

D&D: Calvinball Homebrew Campaign Setting

[Talic]

And then, their avatars get hit by a rock from over the horizon for 35 million damage each.

And then the tauric hulking hurler gets hit by the infinite damage pixie crusader.

[Mushroom Ninja]

Well actually it only does 1d6 plus strength RAW since increased velocity speeds aren't calculated...just falling damage >.>

Incorrect. The rules have damage for objects falling on people. We can calculate the velocity that the object is falling and then apply that to the object being launched by peasants.

[jcsw]

Incorrect. The rules have damage for objects falling on people. We can calculate the velocity that the object is falling and then apply that to the object being launched by peasants.

But that's not RAW...
If it were RAW the ultra long range sniper builds who can shoot 6 miles in 6 seconds would also do insane damage.

[olelia]

Correct...and in this type of play the only way 90% of the cheese would work only on pure RAW. RAI defeats a lot of cheese.

[Mushroom Ninja]

But that's not RAW...
If it were RAW the ultra long range sniper builds who can shoot 6 miles in 6 seconds would also do insane damage.

Hmm, you might be right... exactly how do you define RAW?

[Khosan]

Hmm, you might be right... exactly how do you define RAW?

The Rules as Written.

It actually doesn't deal a whole lot of damage. Maxes at 20d6 according to this (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/environment.htm#tableDamagefromFallingObjects). It doesn't get the same treatment as the Hulking Hurler's Osmium Balls (or whatever they are now; probably neutron stars or something) because it gets by on the 'extra 1d6 per 200 pounds' thing. The Peasant Railgun is limited by the distance it 'falls', meaning the 20d6 limit does apply.

Also, 158 peasants in a row gets you the distance and speed you need.