Dire_E_Coyote
2008-11-02, 04:57 PM
Most fighter builds I've seen concentrate on one or two tactics. I'd like some feedback on a varied-tactics build I've been contemplating. (Granted, Tome-of-Battle classes and psychic warrior would be stronger, but please leave that aside for now.)
I'm thinking of something like this:
--Mostly fighter levels.
--Three levels of variant rogue that gets fighter feats instead of sneak attack.
--Two levels monk.
--Optional one level barbarian.
The two monk levels give two extra feats (especially important is gaining stunning fist at an early level) and boosts in all saving throws, at a cost of +1 BAB and two hit points. One level rogue is taken early, one at mid-levels, one at high levels, and nearly all skill points from the rogue levels are put into Use Magic Device; the cost of that another +1 BAB and three hit points. If I count right, this build gives 21 feats by 20th level. (20 feats if the barbarian level is taken; it gives fast movement and rage 1/day.)
The idea behind this build is to be able to use lots of tactics, and let the opponent and terrain determine optimal tactics for that battle. Use a bow whenever it is possible to attack at range without being counter-attacked; that will require several archery feats. Power attack and a few other uber-charging feats will be useful against foes with lots of hit points. Against lots of melee foes, use trip-tactics; that requires a guisarme, combat expertise, combat reflexes, improved trip, and a few other trip-build and attack-of-opportunity-build feats. Against a physically weak but magically strong foe, use stunning fist and/or improved grapple. The three two-weapon-fighting feats would also be useful in a few situations, such as two-handed-great-sword-plus-unarmed-strike TWF, throwing lots of throwing knives at a wizard who put up a wind wall against arrows, or dual-wielding some light back-up bludgeoning weapons against skeletons. Quick draw, blind fight, and improved initiative seem like important feats for this build. Plus of course it needs the feats magical aptitude and skill focus in Use Magic Device (plus masterwork crib-sheets to give another +2 to UMD skill checks).
As is typical with fighters, this build would use magic items for stat boosts, mobility (freedom of movement as soon as possible, fly at mid-levels, dimension door or teleport at high levels) and defense (armor class, saves, plus blurring or blinking at higher levels).
This build sounds fun to play, and it seems like it should work well -- changing weapons and tactics depending on the opponent and circumstances. Plus it can use wands at low levels and scrolls written by cleric or wizard buddies at higher levels when they would be most useful.
But most fighter-characters I've seen on the boards get high damage output and effectiveness by concentrating their feats and magic items on optimizing just one tactic (or at most two tactics), with the idea that by using well-chosen magic items for mobility and defense, they could usually position themselves to use their optimized attack effectively. That might work better in a large group, I wonder if a versatile-tactics build like this would be better in a two- or three-person group. Maybe it just depends on the DM and the campaign setting as to whether this build would work well.
Any ideas to help a fighter build like this (that don't involve switching to spell-casting, psionics, or Tome of Battle)? Or is concentrating on just one or two fighting tactics always a better idea?
I'm thinking of something like this:
--Mostly fighter levels.
--Three levels of variant rogue that gets fighter feats instead of sneak attack.
--Two levels monk.
--Optional one level barbarian.
The two monk levels give two extra feats (especially important is gaining stunning fist at an early level) and boosts in all saving throws, at a cost of +1 BAB and two hit points. One level rogue is taken early, one at mid-levels, one at high levels, and nearly all skill points from the rogue levels are put into Use Magic Device; the cost of that another +1 BAB and three hit points. If I count right, this build gives 21 feats by 20th level. (20 feats if the barbarian level is taken; it gives fast movement and rage 1/day.)
The idea behind this build is to be able to use lots of tactics, and let the opponent and terrain determine optimal tactics for that battle. Use a bow whenever it is possible to attack at range without being counter-attacked; that will require several archery feats. Power attack and a few other uber-charging feats will be useful against foes with lots of hit points. Against lots of melee foes, use trip-tactics; that requires a guisarme, combat expertise, combat reflexes, improved trip, and a few other trip-build and attack-of-opportunity-build feats. Against a physically weak but magically strong foe, use stunning fist and/or improved grapple. The three two-weapon-fighting feats would also be useful in a few situations, such as two-handed-great-sword-plus-unarmed-strike TWF, throwing lots of throwing knives at a wizard who put up a wind wall against arrows, or dual-wielding some light back-up bludgeoning weapons against skeletons. Quick draw, blind fight, and improved initiative seem like important feats for this build. Plus of course it needs the feats magical aptitude and skill focus in Use Magic Device (plus masterwork crib-sheets to give another +2 to UMD skill checks).
As is typical with fighters, this build would use magic items for stat boosts, mobility (freedom of movement as soon as possible, fly at mid-levels, dimension door or teleport at high levels) and defense (armor class, saves, plus blurring or blinking at higher levels).
This build sounds fun to play, and it seems like it should work well -- changing weapons and tactics depending on the opponent and circumstances. Plus it can use wands at low levels and scrolls written by cleric or wizard buddies at higher levels when they would be most useful.
But most fighter-characters I've seen on the boards get high damage output and effectiveness by concentrating their feats and magic items on optimizing just one tactic (or at most two tactics), with the idea that by using well-chosen magic items for mobility and defense, they could usually position themselves to use their optimized attack effectively. That might work better in a large group, I wonder if a versatile-tactics build like this would be better in a two- or three-person group. Maybe it just depends on the DM and the campaign setting as to whether this build would work well.
Any ideas to help a fighter build like this (that don't involve switching to spell-casting, psionics, or Tome of Battle)? Or is concentrating on just one or two fighting tactics always a better idea?