Conundrum: Taking on an epic level vamp wizard when you're not epic level

[kladams707]

The make up: A party consists of a druid, a wizard, a blood magus (sorceror), and a radiant servant, all 16th level (radiant servant and blood magus reached their level). No variants.

The question
1. Assuming the party acts first, is there a viable strategy to take on (and defeat) a vampire wizard nearly double our levels who uses death spells? If so what is it? If you think we could take him if he were a lower level, still give the strategy but also give the new level.

2. Same question w/ a twist: the druid sides w/ the vamp.


The rules (if necessary):
For this situation, do not include feats. For spells, use only PHB 3.5 and Spell Compendium. If you are concerned about not knowing what spells the wizard knows, then pretend you are the wizard and show what you would prepare (same goes for sorceror and what you would know & cast). Finally, assume everyone has a 20 in their respective spellcasting ability (Int, Wis, Cha).


If there is a viable strategy, please put it in spoilers.

[shadow_archmagi]

Load up on every kind of dispel. Disintegrate whatever's between him and the sun, and get rid of any magic darkness he throws up.

[Yukitsu]

Assuming the vampire is being played to his best, and you rule out infinite stat loops, then no, that party is not sufficient.

[Keld Denar]

How many HD you you think ol' Vampy will have? Cause with an RSoP on your side, you could EASILY dust him, provided he doesn't have more than....40ish HD.

First, gear!
Phylactery of Undead Turning +4 (DMG)
Sacred Armor enhancement +2 (A&EG)
Sacred Shield enhancement +2 (A&EG)
Ephod of Authority +1 (MIC)
Rod of Defiance +4 (Libris Mortis)
Lyre of the Restful Souls +4 (Libris Mortis)

Then feats:
Improved Turning

With all of that, yours 16th level RSoP has an effective turning level of:
34
Then you roll, and with enough modifiers you can garuntee an auto check of +4, which nets you 38 HD

Not quite 40, but more than double your level in HD, which is about the point you were hoping for. Just get one of the other characters (probably the sorc with the high cha) play the Lyre, and the RSoP delay until right after. Probably have the wizard go first, teleport the whole party to within 30' of the vamp, and then Lyre and turn.

That should nuke him in 1 round, which is what you are hoping for. If the vamp wins init, you might be able to survive if you deck the whole party with Death Ward enhancement armor or bracers, which absorbes 1 death effect, and then casting Death Ward individually on each character. That way, if you get hit with 2 death effects, the spell will absorb them both, and if you get hit by a dispel followed by a death effect, you'll still have the armor as backup. You just need 1 round for the cleric to go HOLY NOVA on his ass, and you'll be golden. That's if your DM will let you turn him.

As for the druid, target his reflex save? Trip him up with no-save stuff like Solid Fog, or better yet, Freezing Fog (SpC, wiz/sorc6), slowly whittle down his HP, and make sure you have Protection from Evil which IIRC, will protect you from all summons that you don't attack of any alignment.

[Saph]

Depends on how cheesed-out the vamp is, and how your DM handles epic magic, which leads into the question "is your DM willing to let you win this battle or not?"

If the vamp is designed as a tough-but-beatable opponent, it's possible. In your two scenarios:

Scenario 1:

The druid is your MVP in this battle, due to the spells Sunbeam and Sunburst. The cleric can use Positive Energy Burst and Sunbeam/Sunburst too (Sun domain). Make sure everyone has Death Ward active on them, making the vampire's death and energy drain attempts useless. Note that you're still likely to die, since you've got no real way to dispel his buffs or counter his own Save-or-Die spells, but you've got a chance.

Scenario 2:

You are so, so dead.

- Saph

[Mr.Bookworm]

Assuming the vampire is being played to his best, and you rule out infinite stat loops, then no, that party is not sufficient.

Not really.

Sunbeam (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/sunbeam.htm). Your Druid needs to Wildshape into something fast and nasty, and then spam the heck out of it. Alternatively, he could just use the time-honored Druid strategy of Powerful Animal+Full Spellcasting.

Your Radiant Servant should be either be dropping positive energy bombs down, using Cure-type spells (auto-Maximized and Empowered), and turning undead, OR he should be buffing himself to high heaven, and then using the phrase CoDzilla to it's fullest extent.

Your Sorcerer's tactics depends entirely on what spells he knows, as does the Wizard's.

Don't get me wrong, this'll be a hard fight, but it's winnable.

Assuming your DM plays the Wizard non-intelligently (not dumb, just not incredibly smart). If he plays the Wizard like Batman, or like someone who actually has an Int of ~30, you're screwed.

[Yukitsu]

Sunbeam (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/sunbeam.htm). Your Druid needs to Wildshape into something fast and nasty, and then spam the heck out of it. Alternatively, he could just use the time-honored Druid strategy of Powerful Animal+Full Spellcasting.

Your Radiant Servant should be either be dropping positive energy bombs down, using Cure-type spells (auto-Maximized and Empowered), and turning undead, OR he should be buffing himself to high heaven, and then using the phrase CoDzilla to it's fullest extent.

Your Sorcerer's tactics depends entirely on what spells he knows, as does the Wizard's.

Don't get me wrong, this'll be a hard fight, but it's winnable.

Assuming your DM plays the Wizard non-intelligently (not dumb, just not incredibly smart). If he plays the Wizard like Batman, or like someone who actually has an Int of ~30, you're screwed.

Hence why I said best, and not "int of 10 or so" (I'm int 14-16 max, and can still think of a few dozen ways to get a guaranteed win). Also, no sun spell in the game as written will ever beat an epic casters greatest darkness spell. Sunbeam included.

[kladams707]

I'm not sure how well versed the DM is in epic level magic, as none of us (that I know of) has played epic characters.

I do know that he's only used the 3 main books.


Spells I know the wizard knows

magic missile
lightning
antimagic field
black tentacles
reverse gravity


sorceror: so far, he's only cast lightning, chain lightning, and fireball (the player has had problems w/ characters and gods, and I'll leave it at that)

[Tsotha-lanti]

If an epic-level vampire wizard doesn't have a bunch of epic spells protecting it from sunbeam and similar effects, it's probably safe to assume it's so cripplingly stupid that defeating it will be a cakewalk no matter what you do.

[Keld Denar]

If an epic-level vampire wizard doesn't have a bunch of epic spells protecting it from sunbeam and similar effects, it's probably safe to assume it's so cripplingly stupid that defeating it will be a cakewalk no matter what you do.

+1

Seriously though, I think it'd be funny if you follow my strat and then turn the SoB. Just seeing the DMs jaw drop when you say you turn it, and then ACUTALLY DO, would be priceless. Of course, rocks would probably fall, but hey, that's not my fault. :smallcool:

[shadow_archmagi]

So, what precisely happens to a "turned" undead?

[kladams707]

Sadly, none of us have those supplementals.

[kladams707]

So, what precisely happens to a "turned" undead?

That's a good question. Standard, he'd just run away. If the undead is half your level or if you use greater turning and are successful, it's destroyed.

[shadow_archmagi]

So, does a turned wizard 'run away' literally with it's feet or with the finest epic magic at its disposal?

[Keld Denar]

So, what precisely happens to a "turned" undead?

Normally, they flee as if "paniced" or "cower" if cornered. Since buddy boy is an RSoP though, he has to have the Sun domain, which means he has Greater Turnings, which get around the whole 1/2 HD thing, and skip staight to the dusting. That means that undead that would normally be turned, instead get reduced to a fine dust that blows casually in the wind. The nice thing about this is, since its not a HP thing, a vamp that gets dusted goes straight to hell, does not turn gaseous, does not collect $200. Gone, forever!

Bummer that you don't have the books. I'm sure you could stop by a local book store and copy the relevant text out with a pencil and paper. Otherwise, I could just tell you what they cost and do, if that'll fly with your DM...blasting the BBEG into a fine paste in the opening round of combat would be priceless...

[Yukitsu]

He'll have an effective DC of turning of about 44, if not higher though... That cleric caps at taking out ones with 20.

[kladams707]

My mistake, I didn't interpret the acronyms. I do have the A&EG.

I know one of the players a punch of the supplementals, I just didn't see MIC or Libris Mortis in that stack, but I'll check next week.

At least if it doesn't work out, my character will die a glorious death.


[eidt]Oh crud, I forgot that the sorceror is still dominated by the vamp. But I suppose that's what protection is for.

[Keld Denar]

He'll have an effective DC of turning of about 44, if not higher though... That cleric caps at taking out ones with 20.

Did you not read about 1/2 of my post? With a few relatively cheap items (for a level 16 character) and 1 feat, he can hit an effective cleric level of 38. That's 38 HD, dusted. Granted, that's not 44, but thats a hell of a lot more than 20. I doubt that his HD would be 44 though, I'd wager somewhere in the mid 30s, which means he'd still be in the takeout range of a properly geared turning cleric.

[Emperor Tippy]

First up: Is epic magic in play?

If yes: Your screwed. Assuming competent use you can't win short of turning into Pun-Pun.

If no: Go to the next question

Next question: How cheap are you allowed to be?

If the answer is "very cheap":
Step 1: Buy a Candle of Invocation and gate in an Effertie.
Step 2: Use the Effertie to wish the vampire into the sun, repeat until he's dead.

[Yukitsu]

Did you not read about 1/2 of my post? With a few relatively cheap items (for a level 16 character) and 1 feat, he can hit an effective cleric level of 38. That's 38 HD, dusted. Granted, that's not 44, but thats a hell of a lot more than 20. I doubt that his HD would be 44 though, I'd wager somewhere in the mid 30s, which means he'd still be in the takeout range of a properly geared turning cleric.

32 hit dice, 4 effective increase from being a vampire, +2 from desecrating the area, which he can manage, +4 from an easy and common wizard undead template (spell stiched.) and I'm only off by 2. Either way, above what you can manage with the items you listed, and the inclusion of those books means the logical increase of his turn resistance even above the levels given. I don't think you can increase the turn check without equivalently increasing the effective hit dice of the vampire.

Also, the odds that he won't have abblative shields that will waste the turn energy by bring closer is slim.

[The Glyphstone]

An important question is, how well do you trust your DM? Are they the sort to just handwave their BBEG's immunity to your attack because he's so insanely uber that you're not intended to be able to beat him?

[holywhippet]

Read up on vampires and take note of their strengths and weaknesses: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/vampire.htm

Buy garilic or mirrors to stop it attacking hand to hand.

Make sure everyone is covered by protection from evil to block it's domination powers.

Worried about it casting spells? Have your party loaded with holy water and ready actions to throw if he starts casting. Since it's only a ranged touch attack it is likely to succeed and disrupt his spells.

Summon in things he can't suck blood from like elementals.

Anti-magic field could also be your friend. Drop it on him then surround him at 10 feet of range (assuming you can get him alone). He can't use any of his powers, while you can pelt him with holy water or smack him with weapons.

[Tsotha-lanti]

...

That's nice advice for fighting a vampire, but that's not what they're doing at all. They're fighting an epic-level wizard. The vampire bit is pretty irrelevant.

[SoD]

That's nice advice for fighting a vampire, but that's not what they're doing at all. They're fighting an epic-level wizard. The vampire bit is pretty irrelevant.

Not really. The vampire bit is extremey relevant. They're not against an epic level wizard, they're against an epic level wizard with a bunch of vampiric weaknesses.

[Belial_the_Leveler]

If any of the following questions are answered by a yes, you're probably screwed:

1) Does the vampire have Utterdark?
2) Does the vampire have the following: Celerity, Greater Celerity, Time Stop, Foresight.
3) Does the vampire have Spell Stowaway: Wish + Gate?
4) Is the vampire actually a feral vampire lord?
5) Is the vampire evolved more than once?
6) Does the vampire wear a kevlar and spandex costume resembling a bat?

[Tsotha-lanti]

Not really. The vampire bit is extremey relevant. They're not against an epic level wizard, they're against an epic level wizard with a bunch of vampiric weaknesses.

Only the sunlight one is relevant (why the heck would a vampire wizard want to engage in melee combat with opponents who aren't helpless?), and that is ridiculously easy to get around. If the vampire hasn't created a spell to make it immune to sunbeam and similar spells, and another to actually block out the sun in the area, it might as well not be a wizard.

[Belial_the_Leveler]

See above. Utterdark for a 32nd level wizard would create a mile-wide area of total darkness that supresses light-based spells of 9th level or lower.

[kladams707]

An important question is, how well do you trust your DM? Are they the sort to just handwave their BBEG's immunity to your attack because he's so insanely uber that you're not intended to be able to beat him?

Based on past encounters, definitely not that uber. Or maybe that's just what our DM wants us to believe.

[Tsotha-lanti]

See above. Utterdark for a 32nd level wizard would create a mile-wide area of total darkness that supresses light-based spells of 9th level or lower.

So he doesn't even need epic magic for it? A single ninth-level spell defeats both sunlight and light spells?

Nice.

Where's utterdark from?

[kladams707]

I know the DM has not used anything outside of MM, PHB, and DMG for the vampire.

Btw, anyone know the powers of a half-vampire?

[Leewei]

1. Assuming the party acts first, is there a viable strategy to take on (and defeat) a vampire wizard nearly double our levels who uses death spells? If so what is it? If you think we could take him if he were a lower level, still give the strategy but also give the new level.This is extremely circumstantial. Keld Denar's post looks pretty viable. I'd make sure you cheesed in any bonuses to the d20 roll for the turning attempt. Make sure you had a consecrate effect up, get a potion of good hope, etc.


2. Same question w/ a twist: the druid sides w/ the vamp.If the druid might side with the vamp, have a conversation with your DM about what reverence of nature means. Siding with a powerful, unnatural undead creature in a conflict where natural interests are not at stake would be a pretty dubious maneuver. Your DM may strip the Druid of spells and abilities. If the problem is dominate person or similar effects, be certain to cover the druid in a magic circle against evil effect to prevent ongoing control.

One last thing; while it doesn't appear that your group includes anyone prone to trickery, getting said vampire to handle holy objects that penalize effective level (e.g. White Robe of the Archmage) might soften up your target a bit.

[kladams707]

Trust me, given the circumstances I'm considering, I think we'll be able to give a surprise round w/ the vamp on our home turf. I probably should've mentioned that part.

As for the druid, the DM hasn't been that strict in terms of restrictions. Even I haven't had to atone for any possible transgressions (and believe me there are a couple that could go either way). That and the druid is also a half-vampire.

[Tsotha-lanti]

I know the DM has not used anything outside of MM, PHB, and DMG for the vampire.

Btw, anyone know the powers of a half-vampire?

No one can know the powers of a half-vampire if your DM is only using that material, since the half-vampire would be homebrewed.

Otherwise, the stats are in Libris Mortis.

Also, are you saying that your DM actually doesn't have/use epic spellcasting rules?

[kladams707]

No one can know the powers of a half-vampire if your DM is only using that material, since the half-vampire would be homebrewed.

Otherwise, the stats are in Libris Mortis.

Also, are you saying that your DM actually doesn't have/use epic spellcasting rules?

The material for the half-vampire is from Dragon Magazine (what issue I don't know, but I do know that's where the player got it from). The DM, of course, makes final decisions on what can be used, and let the player take it. All I know about it is that it comes w/ a +4 level adjustment.

As for the DM not using/having epic spellcasting rules, I don't know. Is it outside of those 3 I listed?

[Keld Denar]

This is extremely circumstantial. Keld Denar's post looks pretty viable. I'd make sure you cheesed in any bonuses to the d20 roll for the turning attempt. Make sure you had a consecrate effect up, get a potion of good hope, etc.


Not needed. Hire a bunch of lowbie clerics from your church. I'm sure the church of Pelor would probably donate em for free in the light (punny) of ridding the world of a powerful vampowizard. Then, all of your mookie clerics assist your run. Assuming level 2 clerics with a 12 cha and 5 ranks in Know:Religion, that's a roll of 7 or higher (70%) to hit DC10 (turn undead IS an ability check, read it). This gives you a +2 to your turn check for each that suceeds. Hire about 15 of them, and you'll get ~10 successes, for a +20 to your check. That means you automatically hit 23 for a +4 on your check, with no investment at all.

Also, not including LA, how many HD do you think he'll have? Is it more than ~35 actual HD? or like, 31 HD and +4 LA (which doesn't count for turnin). That determines where the break point is in how much gear you need to actually be sucessful.

[ashmanonar]

The make up: A party consists of a druid, a wizard, a blood magus (sorceror), and a radiant servant, all 16th level (radiant servant and blood magus reached their level). No variants.

The question
1. Assuming the party acts first, is there a viable strategy to take on (and defeat) a vampire wizard nearly double our levels who uses death spells? If so what is it? If you think we could take him if he were a lower level, still give the strategy but also give the new level.

2. Same question w/ a twist: the druid sides w/ the vamp.


The rules (if necessary):
For this situation, do not include feats. For spells, use only PHB 3.5 and Spell Compendium. If you are concerned about not knowing what spells the wizard knows, then pretend you are the wizard and show what you would prepare (same goes for sorceror and what you would know & cast). Finally, assume everyone has a 20 in their respective spellcasting ability (Int, Wis, Cha).


If there is a viable strategy, please put it in spoilers.

Our party had a radiant servant, at level...8? with some sort of feat (i don't remember what book, and I know, you said no feats.) that allowed him to create sun-level light on an object he held.

With the hydra-polymorphed wizard that misread the polymorph rules, we killed over 50 vampires in one battle.

[kladams707]

Also, not including LA, how many HD do you think he'll have? Is it more than ~35 actual HD? or like, 31 HD and +4 LA (which doesn't count for turnin). That determines where the break point is in how much gear you need to actually be sucessful.


I suspect it's more like 31+4.

[Keld Denar]

OK, well, you will need to get ahold of Libris Mortis somehow. With just the DMG and A&EG which you said you had, you can get to 28 (16 + 4 + 4 + 4) with Phylactery, double Sacred armor/shield, and a maxed roll. You need to get the Rod of Defiance or the Lyre of the Restful Souls to get that last +4 you need to get to 32. Either will work, and both will give you even more cusion to be wrong about HD.

For your check, you can rig some stuff in your favor as well. If its home turf, Consecrate it. This gives you a +3 to your check. Then stack your gear. A Cloak of Cha gives you another +3, if you don't already have one, and a Choaker of Greater Eloquence (with +6 Wisdom per MIC) will give you another sizable bonus. Anything that adds to +cha checks will help. I'd recommend a Circlet of Persuasion, but that takes your head slot you need for the Phylactery of Undead Turning, which gives you a bigger boost, and since its not a +stat item, you can't add it without paying the 1.5x cost increase, which would be about 6k gold. You also get a +2 check for 5 ranks in Know:Religion. If you are still short of rolling a 21, get some lowbie clerics to assist you. You shouldn't need much to get there.

[ravenkith]

LA on the vampire template is 8. If the critter is level 32 and the DM is following the rules, this means a maximum level of 26.

So it's max 26 HD.

Furthermore, with no ELH (MM, PHB and DMG only) most of the 'make your own epic spells' stuff goes bye bye, IIRC.

That means you probably only have to worry about ninth level regular spells.

Don't get me wrong, that can be a challenge, but much less so if the DM is sticking to core for spells as well.

Finally, since your DM gave this guy the vampire template (which is less than optimal for a caster), might he have dropped some other templates on there as well?

Every level of spellcasting (or HD) lost is going to be your friend.

Note: Wizards and Vampires BOTH have weaknesses that can be exploited.

1. Wizards must rest at least 8 hours to get spells back.
2. Vampires have built in weaknesses per the MM.

In order to be a badass uber vamp, he's going to have to cast spells. Usually his higher level ones, on defenses.

He's going to want to get those back.

That means that 8 hours of everday, the vampire is NOT going to be hunting you.

How do you turn this into an advantage? With one, extended, second level spell, and a simple divination spell.

Rope Trick takes you into an extradimensional space. This makes it hard for you to be scried upon. The window is invisible, and, if you are smart, can be hidden as well (set it up in say, a forest of trees among the branches for example, or behind a tapestry on a castle wall).

Augury will tell you, yes or no, if your current path of action will lead to a good or bad result.

Simply camp up in the rope trick, and cast augury to determine whether or not leaving the rope trick is a good idea(a wand could be great here).

Taking the feat Extra dimensional spell, and making sure there are 7 creatures inside the space, plus the rope, will make your rope trick an unassailable fortress from which you can lob bombs into the real world.

Add teleport, or any means of dimensional travel, and you have a castle from which you can easily escape.

Then, when it's a good idea to leave the rope trick, you can use the time to find out where the vampire sleeps, via the use of your own scrying capabilities and remote scouting (yes there are many spells and counterspells, but worse to worst do it manually.

Once you figure out the location, you have the win in hand.

If you don't like rope trick, you can always try Tiny Hut, and go for Hallow with an attached Deathward, and/or an attached dimensional anchor.

The disadvantage here is that the hut goes bye bye if a hurricane hits it, nd the hallow is defeatable by spell resistance.

Still, it should give you unharrassed time to recoup and plan, and furthermore, take away some of this wizards big guns especially with the hallow & and an attached deathward.

[Fizban]

LA is only for PCs, the DM gets to use the vamp's +2 or 3 CR adjustment. Acronyms FTW!

Anyway, I suggest: split ray'd Lucent Lance, a Spell Compendium spell. One hit from a Lucent Lance cases a creature to "take penalties as if it were exposed to full sunlight for one round". Two hits then gives you two rounds, which if I remember correctly, is the number of rounds of fully sunlight required to dust a vampire. Total cost: one 7th level spell slot or scroll, two successful ranged touch attacks.

[kladams707]

Thanks for all your suggestions.





I think just for the heck of it I'll cast death throes on myself.

[The Glyphstone]

LA is only for PCs, the DM gets to use the vamp's +2 or 3 CR adjustment. Acronyms FTW!

Anyway, I suggest: split ray'd Lucent Lance, a Spell Compendium spell. One hit from a Lucent Lance cases a creature to "take penalties as if it were exposed to full sunlight for one round". Two hits then gives you two rounds, which if I remember correctly, is the number of rounds of fully sunlight required to dust a vampire. Total cost: one 7th level spell slot or scroll, two successful ranged touch attacks.

Won't work, since the rays hit at the same time. If you hit him with two Lucent Lances in consective rounds, that'll be somewhat better.

[Fizban]

I disagree, but I can't really find good grounds other than "2 rays = 2 rounds." You're probably right, as the intensity of the light doesn't matter for vampires as long as it's "full sunlight."

So, change it to a repeating Lucent Lance, or just cast it twice. Cost changes to 8th level slot or 2 5th level slots and surviving one round. And hitting the touch AC of course, which is the part that makes you screwed.

[The Glyphstone]

I disagree, but I can't really find good grounds other than "2 rays = 2 rounds." You're probably right, as the intensity of the light doesn't matter for vampires as long as it's "full sunlight."

So, change it to a repeating Lucent Lance, or just cast it twice. Cost changes to 8th level slot or 2 5th level slots and surviving one round. And hitting the touch AC of course, which is the part that makes you screwed.

It's because it's a twinned spell. It would be 2 rounds of light, but since they hit at the same time, the vampire is just exposed to two rounds worth of light at the same time, sort of like being hit with a Stunning Fist attack twice in the same round would still only stun you for 1 round, not two. They need two consecutive rounds to suffer obliteration.

[Leewei]

The lowbie clerics idea is worth a shot, but consider that you'd be fortunate to get the drop on the vampire with the relatively small group you're discussing. If the vampire has initiative, they'll be turned into wall hangings.

For the druid -- given time, have your Blood Magus polymorph any object a suit of full plate into a suit of hide armor (using a scroll if need be). Enchant the bejeezus out of it, including Wild armor. If the druid gets snippy, have the Blood Magus cast dispel magic on it. Bam! No more druid abilities.

Having said all this, it occurs to me that the epic guy may not be the real BBEG of your game. Is it possible the DM is merely throwing in a plot hook for the Druid?

[kladams707]

"Having said all this, it occurs to me that the epic guy may not be the real BBEG of your game. Is it possible the DM is merely throwing in a plot hook for the Druid?"

No. The vampire has been around before the druid, in which said player had another character in league w/ the vampire.

The vampire has been the only major npc for the last 7 or 8 levels. Well, w/ the exception of the king who had men perform a ritual that turned the vampire evil again (party undertook a quest to change his alignment).

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Idea. You guys are willing to blow massive WBL on this, correct? 20x Helms of Opposite Alignment, created in a non-slotted version(I like the idea of beads) that only requires possession. Hand of the Mage to carry them around. Place them in his possession. If the beads are strung together, it would only be one action to put them in his pocket, then he has to roll 20 saving throws. Not Good, but close enough.

[Leewei]

PCs have undergone a quest to change the vampire's alignment, and the druid's player had a previous character who was working for the vampire? It sounds like the vampire is your DM's Mary Sue. If this is the case, rules-wise, there isn't much to be done. If the game is otherwise fun, tell him how cool he is, and otherwise avoid him. If not, take your best shot, but don't be surprised if the DM simply declares victory for his cherished NPC. The DM probably won't kill you off outright; instead, expect him to make things interesting using the vampire as a plot device. Expect this to happen repeatedly.

[Irreverent Fool]

Idea. You guys are willing to blow massive WBL on this, correct? 20x Helms of Opposite Alignment, created in a non-slotted version(I like the idea of beads) that only requires possession. Hand of the Mage to carry them around. Place them in his possession. If the beads are strung together, it would only be one action to put them in his pocket, then he has to roll 20 saving throws. Not Good, but close enough.

You know, I was going to try to point out why this wouldn't work. Vampires have undead traits, which include immunity to mind-affecting things. The helm, however does not say in its description that it is any of the things covered by that particular immunity though it does mention a curse.

Your solution is silly but potentially viable.

I have nothing useful to contribute.
obnoxious
sig

[Tsotha-lanti]

Idea. You guys are willing to blow massive WBL on this, correct? 20x Helms of Opposite Alignment, created in a non-slotted version(I like the idea of beads) that only requires possession. Hand of the Mage to carry them around. Place them in his possession. If the beads are strung together, it would only be one action to put them in his pocket, then he has to roll 20 saving throws. Not Good, but close enough.

Assuming the DM allows such a nonsensical item (cursed items are cursed, not offensive, generally), this is a whopping 65% chance of success.

I would not bet large sums on 65%, personally.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Assuming the DM allows such a nonsensical item (cursed items are cursed, not offensive, generally), this is a whopping 65% chance of success.

I would not bet large sums on 65%, personally.Then increase the number of Helms. And keep in mind, someone had to make all of the ones you find at the bottom of dungeons. Yeah, it's a bs strategy that relies on slipping it past the DM before he realizes what you're doing, but they're fighting a CR36 enemy. I'm not sure how to begin calculating the XP for that, let alone how much they should earn.

[Tehnar]

To buy you some time, and have followers (clerics or bards), equip them with wands of silence. Direct them to use the wand when they see the vamp casting, to cast it on a point in space centered around the vampire. If the followers are spread around enough not all of them will be killed by the first aoe the vamp throws at them. Then the vampire must waste actions on killing the followers or cant cast at all.

Just need to be sure to have something that can hurt him, even if you cant cast spells. Since if this works probably the whole area will be blanketed by silence spells.

[Glimbur]

Then increase the number of Helms. And keep in mind, someone had to make all of the ones you find at the bottom of dungeons. Yeah, it's a bs strategy that relies on slipping it past the DM before he realizes what you're doing, but they're fighting a CR36 enemy. I'm not sure how to begin calculating the XP for that, let alone how much they should earn.

What if he fails the save twice?

[kladams707]

It's a good thing we don't use XP.

[Innis Cabal]

Decanter of Endless Water and someone who can grapple and hold their breath for three rounds.

[vrellum]

How do you deliver the helms without changing your alignment. Not mention, what if he fails the save an even number of times...

[Blackfang108]

Sluggy Freelance had a Stakegun That fires 100 Stakes per second.

Clip Size: 100 Stakes

Reloading time: 48 hours.

Impractical, but ONE of them has to hit...

[Sstoopidtallkid]

How do you deliver the helms without changing your alignment. Not mention, what if he fails the save an even number of times...Mage Hand, and the Curse only works once.

[ThrustVectoring]

Don't know how much this helps, but there is a first level bard, cleric, wizard, or sorcerer spell from the Book Of Eldritch Might 1, called "Guilt", which forces a nongood character to perform no actions other than defending itself for 1d4 rounds. Given enough low-level casters to help spam at him, one of the spells is going to land and he'll probably fail a will save. This gives you 1d4 rounds to renew the spell or do something. The vampire is allowed to quote "defend itself", but depending on how strictly its interpreted opens up various options.

Anyhow, antimagic field + kill it ought to work. As an alternative to simply killing the vampire, reducing the easiest stat to zero would work. Any zero-stat is either dead or helpless, and a helpless vampire wizard in an anti-magic field is going to die from coup-de-grace (repeatedly if necessary).