Finding water in DND 3.5

[Egiam]

Ok, so I was really confused by the water DND 3.5 system and asked a bucketload (pun intended) of questions. See them here:http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87867&page=31
I came up for a system for freshwater finding when the P.C.s have Trail Rations.
1. Multiply distance normally covered by 9/10
2. Roll survival check:
At Sea: DC Impossible
All aquatic, check coastline terrain DC
Snow anywhere DC 0 +10 to check if fire available.
Cold Desert (no snow) DC 10
Cold forest (no snow) DC 5
Cold hills (no snow) DC 7
cold marshes (no snow) DC 3
Cold mountains (no snow) DC 6
Cold plains (no snow) DC 10
Temperate desert DC 10
Temperate forest DC 5
Temperate Hills DC 9
Temperate marshes DC 4
Temperate mountains DC 6
Temperate plains DC 10
Warm Dersert DC 18
Warm Forest DC 4
Warm Hills DC 12
Warm Marshes DC 5
Warm Mountains DC 8
Warm Plains DC 15

Success: you find water for one medium sized creature or 2 small sized creatures and so on.
Players may reroll, at the cost of another 10th of the distance travelled
Every 3 rolled over DC finds water for one more Medium sized creature.
Note: if a P.C. rolls 20 or higher on warm desert, you find an oasis.
triple chance for random encounter that hour.

Please add to this or edit if you find anything lacking.

[powerdemon]

i wouldn't make it any harder to find water for more than one creature, most water sources are large enough to support a lot of creatures IE a river or lake/pond. Just my $.02

[rayne_dragon]

Hmm... I like the idea of what you're doing and in general it looks like a great start. I'd like to offer a few suggestions, though.

For starters while you've covered fresh water, you may wish to consider that a lot of water adventurers are likely to come across is not going to be healthy for them, either because of disease or stagnation. I would think that marshes are not somewhere you are likely to find water you're willing to drink. You may want to include something about contaminated water in this whole thing.

I agree with the DC 0 for snow, but the difficulty to find something to burn depends on vegetation, so its difficulty varies with terrain as well. In fact finding anything combustable on a cold mountain is unlikely unless you brought it with you.

I also think your DCs for deserts might be a little low, but I've never tried finding water in a desert, so I really have no way to make a comparison. Finding an oasis also seems a bit easy since it could be done 25% of the time by a 1st level character (with full ranks). I'd suggest require a natural 20 or a DC of at least 30.

[powerdemon]

Totally agree with the oasis comment.

[Egiam]

Thanks for all the imput. Heres an updated DCs for freshwater:

At Sea: DC Impossible
All aquatic, check coastline terrain DC
Snow Anywhere DC 15, +20 to check if fire available.
Cold Desert (no snow) DC 15
Cold forest (no snow) DC 7
Cold hills (no snow) DC 12
cold marshes (no snow) DC 7
Cold mountains (no snow) DC 13
Cold plains (no snow) DC 12
Temperate desert DC 15
Temperate forest DC 10
Temperate Hills DC 14
Temperate marshes DC 6
Temperate mountains DC 9
Temperate plains DC 18
Warm Desert DC 28 or natural 20(oasis)
Warm Forest DC 12
Warm Hills DC 17
Warm Marshes DC 12
Warm Mountains DC 12
Warm Plains DC 18

Success: you find a water source. Players may reroll, at the cost of another 10th of the distance travelled
Every 3 rolled over DC finds water for one more Medium sized creature.
Note: if water is found you find an Oasis.
Triple chance for random encounter that hour.

I think that the DC for finding water should include looking for clean water.
Any other Ideas?

[Egiam]

Ok cool! Just as I posted I got another idea.
how about the DCs for marches are:
Cold: 16
Temperate: 19
Warm: 20
and purify food and drink (the spell) gives automatic sucess
Do any of you playgrounders have any idea for drinking march water without purication? Fort save?

[rayne_dragon]

I'd suggest up warm marshes to DC 24. Heat breeds filth and disease.

I'd suggest something like a small table for impure water
Roll d12
1-4 - Upset stomach; fort save DC 15 or d4 con damage
5-7 - Exposure to Mildly Severe Disease
8-9 - Exposure to Moderately Severe Disease
10 - Exposure to Serious Disease
11-12 - Possibly Infected with Parasites

I don't have the list of D&D diseases handy, so I can't be too specific.

A roll of a natural 1 in any terrain should also indicate contaminated water that the character believes is safe to drink.

[Drago]

Hate to be a bummer but marshes act as natural filters, the water flowing out of them is some of the cleanest you'll find. Really all it would take is to find the outlet of the marsh and a fast flow and you have safe water.

You also have to consider that at the level of technology and magic of most campaign settings everyone would be use to drinking water that is significantly dirtier than anything we would drink willing.

EDIT: Guess I should be a little more helpful. The DCs for marshes would be rather similar across all climates, I'd say DC 15-18 would be an appropriate range, to represent knowing that the clean water is downstream of the marsh and how to find downstream in the marsh.

[rayne_dragon]

That's actually a good point... I just always assume when people say marsh they mean a stagnant swamp rather than a pristine wetland. Terrain types can be rather unclear. I also realized that a successful survival check should probably include knowing that it's good idea to boil water before drinking it.

[sigurd]

You are talking about survival, not best practices right? Survival could amount to following a dog and drinking where he drinks, if he doesn't die instantly.

Your character takes axe blows and sword slashes all day long. He gets a priest to wave a magic wand and wakes up perfect. A little stagnant water shouldn't be a terrible fear. Indiana Jones only gets dysentery when it suites the plot - no matter what he drinks.


Sigurd

[Egiam]

Hate to be a bummer but marshes act as natural filters, the water flowing out of them is some of the cleanest you'll find. Really all it would take is to find the outlet of the marsh and a fast flow and you have safe water.

You also have to consider that at the level of technology and magic of most campaign settings everyone would be use to drinking water that is significantly dirtier than anything we would drink willing.

EDIT: Guess I should be a little more helpful. The DCs for marshes would be rather similar across all climates, I'd say DC 15-18 would be an appropriate range, to represent knowing that the clean water is downstream of the marsh and how to find downstream in the marsh.

Exactly what I was saying. I meant the DC for finding the pure water. The fortitude save is for lazies who do not want to spend time looking and P.C.s with -10 survival without Purify Food and Drink.

In responce to the statment that in medieval times (remember this is fantasy), less clean water was consumed because we did not have modern purification methods. I am running Eberron and imagine the peaseants would drink regular water, and nobles and members of dragonmarked houses would have magically purified water. With modern knowledge of germs and desease, When I go camping, I know not to drink water from lakes without boiling it first. But back then, they attibuted parisites and germs to divine punishment. But, always remember, that this is fantasy.

[Ascension]

I'm rather disappointed to see this isn't a base or prestige class devoted to dowsing or at least a magical dowsing rod.