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DragonBaneDM
2008-11-04, 11:42 AM
Hello friends. I am finally, after what seems like a millenia of DMing, I'm finally getting a chance to play.

And you know that one player who spends half the time optimizing his character, and ruins every...single...plan...you've...ever...had?

Yeah, that guy's the DM.

So, I've decided to be the first one in our party to playtest the Swordmage. I'm human, and I've got a backstory in which that's a must. I'm also trying out the Sheilding Path. We've got an Avenging Paladin, War Wizard, Laser Cleric and TWF Ranger, so I figure our damage output will work well, but we could use a little more control and defense.

I've got his stats all figured out, it was a 32 point buy, so he's okay, if anyone wants to see those, let me know.

What I really need is advice on powers. And what I should be doing in a fight. Never played a Swordmage before, so I need someone who's a bit of a pro.

Oh, and don't think I'm a lightweight, I've got 24 AC and 55 HP at Level 5, which matches the Paladin!

Tadanori Oyama
2008-11-04, 01:35 PM
Your playing the running defender.

Step one: Mark whatever is most likely attack the weakest party members so you can use your Aegis power. Position yourself by the Wizard and Cleric when fighting starts while the Paladin and Ranger move forward. I'd go so far as delaying until after the monsters take their turns so you can see what their planning and mark accordingly.

Once you've got one of the big hitters marked and somewhat controlled it's time to start crossing the battlefield.

As a sheilding Swordmage you have access to alot of movement tricks. I'd have to check but I think one of your basic attacks can pull someone three squares and there's several teleporting encounter powers. Use those to hit the enemy and move them across the field, preferably to the other side of the Paladin.

Inyssius Tor
2008-11-04, 05:51 PM
Augh, double-thread. Picked the wrong one.

Anyway, I think actually knowing your attributes would help. Could you...?

Tuataralad
2008-11-04, 07:41 PM
I think one of your basic attacks can pull someone three squares

That is the at-will called lightning lure, which is pretty good.

Anyway, I have not actually had a chance to play a swordmage yet, ut i have made one or two. If I were you though, I would take Booming Blade, which does damage to an enemy and then more damage if they run away, and also probably sword burst, because it is the only at-will close burst in the game. If you are human, then lighning lure is a good idea also for the third at-will.

Also, if you are shilding, you should have good AC and defenses, so try to invest a feat in getting hide armour if you have any left over. Also, you should probably use a bastard sword, whic is another feat, but you could go with the fullsword instead, which is the same, except military instead of superior and with +2 proficiency instead of +3.

NPCMook
2008-11-04, 08:17 PM
32 points? That's pretty high powered for a 4e game.

I have an Earthsoul Genasi Swordmage with Greenflame Blade and Lightning Lure. For a Human, I'd probably take Booming Blade, since you can Mark as a Minor, Strike as a Standard, and then Shift 1 away. The Marked Enemy is going to come for you no matter what, so might as well hurt him as much as you can!

Level 1: Hide Armor Proficiency, Toughness
Level 2: Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword
Level 4: Weapon Focus: Heavy Blade

Since you were the one asking about training mounts and such from scratch, and if this DM doesn't throw you into a lot of caves. Or you could just give him a background of getting a Blade Spider, or some other Subterranean mount who doesn't suffer Squeeze when underground or the like.
Alt Level 4: Mounted Combat

Artanis
2008-11-05, 01:11 AM
The suggested standard stats method in the PHB is 32 point buy with 10 already spent.

Lord_Ventnor
2008-11-05, 04:56 AM
Power Recommendations:

At-Will: Booming Blade, Lightning Lure, Sword Burst
Lv. 1 Encounter: Flame Cyclone/Foesnare
Lv. 1 Daily: Frost Backlash/Dimensional Thunder*
Lv. 2 Utility: Dimensional Warp
Lv. 3 Encounter: Transposing Lunge
Lv. 5 Daily: Shielding Fire*/Lingering Lightning

* This appears in the "Primordial Paths" Dragon Article. It's free to look at, so...

DragonBaneDM
2008-11-06, 11:02 AM
Augh, double-thread. Picked the wrong one.

Anyway, I think actually knowing your attributes would help. Could you...?

Okie dokie artichokie.

19 Int
16 Str
16 Con
10 Dex
12 Cha
11 Wisdom

Leather and Warding gives me 24 AC. +2 *Insert Enchantment Here* Bastard Sword at or below Level 8, not sure what to pick there.

And I took Intelligent Blademaster. And Retributive Sheild. Not so sure about the spellbook feat, I don't see the point...



I have an Earthsoul Genasi Swordmage with Greenflame Blade and Lightning Lure. For a Human, I'd probably take Booming Blade, since you can Mark as a Minor, Strike as a Standard, and then Shift 1 away. The Marked Enemy is going to come for you no matter what, so might as well hurt him as much as you can!



EXACTLY!!! Isn't being mudane simply WONDERFUL!!!!

NPCMook
2008-11-06, 11:36 PM
I'm iffy about Intelligent Blademaster since its a very iffy feat, it only effects your Basic attacks, so if you get to make a lot of OoA's then yeah its awesome, if the Warlord Commander Strike's you a lot, its awesome.

Thanks for the reminder of that Article, Lord Ventor.

My character is currently going Wandering Swordmage, which allows you to add your Wisdom Modifier to your Aegis Burst Range, I think my character will be close to a Burst 10, by Paragon Level, so yeah...

Starsinger
2008-11-06, 11:38 PM
I'm iffy about Intelligent Blademaster since its a very iffy feat, it only effects your Basic attacks,

I love Intelligent Blademaster, dunno why, but I do. It's especially great for Wizards/Warlocks who pick up the Swordmage multiclass...but that's neither here nor there.

Still, you figure you're going to be in melee anyways, you might end up making OAs, might as well take it.

DragonBaneDM
2008-11-06, 11:44 PM
My character is currently going Wandering Swordmage, which allows you to add your Wisdom Modifier to your Aegis Burst Range, I think my character will be close to a Burst 10, by Paragon Level, so yeah...

Do want... Must remember to buff that in later levels. Oh, and I'm multiclassing TacLord. Anything special I should figure out there? The DM plays a TacLord in my campaign, so I wanted to use some of his tricks against him.

Swok
2008-11-06, 11:57 PM
To echo what some others have said, you need to be nowhere near the target of your mark. After playing a sort of swordsage (we mostly slapped it together for after level 3 with other abilities when that was all we had) I can say that there's something oddly awesome about just marking something, and letting other people busy themselves with it. Even better when you can use that pulling at will to make sure that your victimtarget is always in the eye of a very sharp and stabby storm. You will be surprised with how useful that at-will will be.

Lord_Ventnor
2008-11-07, 12:29 AM
I have an Earthsoul Genasi Swordmage with Greenflame Blade and Lightning Lure. For a Human, I'd probably take Booming Blade, since you can Mark as a Minor, Strike as a Standard, and then Shift 1 away. The Marked Enemy is going to come for you no matter what, so might as well hurt him as much as you can!

That trick doesn't work, since the Booming Blade extra damage only kicks in if the enemy starts next to you and then moves away.

NPCMook
2008-11-07, 05:51 AM
That trick doesn't work, since the Booming Blade extra damage only kicks in if the enemy starts next to you and then moves away.

The Booming blade is useless and Greenflame blade owns it 100%.

Charity
2008-11-07, 06:05 AM
^ many would disaggree

here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1091771) is a link of interest.

NPCMook
2008-11-07, 06:18 AM
^ many would disaggree

here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1091771) is a link of interest.

I don't see it being all that great since I hit the enemy and have to hope it moves away during its turn... Sure its works fine if you hit another allies mark with it and then that enemy moves away from you. VERY SITUATIONAL, Greenflame blade far superior. My character has managed to kill off some high profile targets because he simply kept chipping away that HP through his Fire Damage.

While for a Teifling it can gain a +1 damage with it, its still far better than Booming Blade as it hits multiple targets, while Booming Blade deals extra damage to a single target who has to meet several prerequisites. Perhaps someone who thinks Booming blade is better can actually enlighten me to why its better?

KKL
2008-11-07, 06:41 AM
As a defender, you want to be sticky. Booming Blade does exactly that because the thought of extra pain does not sit well with enemies. Thus, they will stay on you.

As far as At-Wills go, the best would be Sword Burst/Booming Blade. Greenflame Blade takes the second for AoA swordmages, and Lightning Lure is quite honestly, unimpressive. However, for a Shielding Swordmage, Frigid Blade is quite possibly the best At-Will ever.

For those of you unenlightened...

Frigid Blade Swordmage Attack 1
Your weapon leaves a frosty trail as it cuts through the air and strikes with a blow that inflicts winter’s wrath.
At-Will ✦ Arcane, Cold, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Intelligence vs. AC
Hit: [W] + Intelligence modifier cold damage. If the target starts its next turn adjacent to you, it takes a penalty to speed equal to your Constitution modifier until the end of its next turn.
Increase damage to 2[W] + Intelligence modifier at 21st level.

Charity
2008-11-07, 06:46 AM
Well at least lightning lure gives you a ranged attack, it's not great but as sword burst is so darn good you can afford a bit of a second rate partner for it.

and Mook, booming blade makes you a good defender, it's not all about the damage.

KKL
2008-11-07, 06:52 AM
Well at least lightning lure gives you a ranged attack, it's not great but as sword burst is so darn good you can afford a bit of a second rate partner for it.

and Mook, booming blade makes you a good defender, it's not all about the damage.

It's a ranged 3 attack that targets fortitude. You'd be better off charging whoever you wanted to hit with Lure. Plus, at Paragon, Sword Burst does it far better with Arcane Reach.

DSCrankshaw
2008-11-07, 08:02 AM
It's a ranged 3 attack that targets fortitude. You'd be better off charging whoever you wanted to hit with Lure. Plus, at Paragon, Sword Burst does it far better with Arcane Reach.
The point of Lightning Lure is not the range attack, but the pull. It's a very defenderish power to be able to pull the enemy away from the squishies.

NPCMook
2008-11-07, 10:53 AM
I see your point, but I have a DM who will ignore tactics for the most part, and ignore marks, I once used Dimensional Warp, I was just starting out with my defender, and swapped places with a fighter to try and force the enemies to move causing them to get hit by AoO, and he instead had them just attack us allowing our Mark abilities to proc. Though still I find Greenflame blade better, I may retrain Lightning Lure for Booming Blade, I use in case something gets to close to my squishies. With my DM, damage matters, he's thrown ridiculously hard encounters at us. He's told us at level 5 "The gloves come off," mind you he's all for 2nd ed, where he was taught if you think you party can defeat it throw it at them. So that's usually what happens, if he thinks we can take it, it gets thrown at us, some encounters we need I think an 11 or better to hit enemies AC.

So back on topic, I thank you for enlightening me on Booming Blade.

Yakk
2008-11-07, 03:51 PM
If he ignores your mark penalties, then you win. That is why the mark penalties are good.

Marks don't make your target change targets -- they make your target attack who you choose, or take the pain.