3.5 Druid, Animal Companion and Wild Shape

[Blackfang108]

Level 22,

What Animal Companions does everyone recommend?

I'm currently thinking of using a Dire Wolf, unless someone can give me a good reason to have something else.

Also, what are some good Wild Shape animals?

I do not have any of the Epic Wild Shape feats, choosing Epic Spellcasting instead.

For Animal Companions, please stay in Core + MMs.

For Wild Shapes, Any book is open game.
Wild Shape Limits: 22hd
Tiny to Huge Animals and Plants
Elementals to Huge (Thinking Storm Elemental)

Things to Assume:
I have NO Starting Wealth. My first character started at ECL 22 with about 23 copper, a shortspear, and a buckler. I wanted a halberd.
This is a NO XP campaign. I will be ECL 22 for eternity, so please don't suggest other [epic] feats. I've wanted to play an epic caster for a while now, and I don't know when I'll have the next chance.

[Draz74]

I like Dire Bats. Yay for Small druids or rangers, Riding flying Animal Companions!

Dire Tiger is hard to beat, though.

[Tehnar]

For wildshape there is this weird hellish tree with 20 ft reach, CON draining attacks and so fort. I dont remember whats it called or what book it is in. I think its something like Fiend Folio (not one of the MMs).

Anyways elementals are great because unlike ordinary wildshape you get their special qualities as well. Though wildshape is pretty moot at this point since you have shapechange.

[Blackfang108]

Right. Never played a Druid before (aside from a one shot at level 8).

I'll have to keep that in mind.

Still, The Storm Elemental looks like FUN!

EDIT: also, For Wild Shape, EVERY BOOK is game.

[Kaiyanwang]

First animal in mind: Frostburn Dire Polar Bear. HUUUUUGE strenght.

You can shape only in "base" elemental unless you improve this ability with the Epic Feat. You Find it in DMG.

Maybe the hellish tree is the nightwist. Yes, Fiend Folio.

Think about Demonthorn Mandrake in MMIV (or was V?).

[goram.browncoat]

The dire polar bear as mentioned is pretty good. However, the main strength of the polar bear is grapple and at high level grapple is likely to be hard to pull off (since freedom of movement wont be a rare sight).

I also quite like the saguaro sentinel from sandstorm. probably less good but mad style points for being a huge pissed of cactus :) Can trample which can be nice.

Though since youre an epic spellcaster you may just want to take a good aerial form (legendary eagle from MM2 or dragonhawk from 5N) and make with the casting.

(all these forms and more can be found in the druid handbook: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=733400)

[Heliomance]

Fleshraker is always fun. Pounce+trip+grapple+pin+poison, all in one attack.

[monty]

Though since youre an epic spellcaster you may just want to take Epic Spellcasting and not worry about anything else, because you already won.

Fixed it for you.:smallbiggrin:

[goram.browncoat]

Fixed it for you.:smallbiggrin:

Its still better to be an epic spellcaster with a 120ft flyspeed than one without. (especially considering there arent that many druid flight spells with a decent duration).

But yes, on the whole, epic spellcasting will fix most of a characters worries :)

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I'll second the Fleshraker dinosaur (MM3), take the feat Natural Bond (CV) to still count your entire Druid level for its extra HD and other goodies. It will be 18 HD, for five extra feats, so give it Ability Focus: Poison (MM), Virulent Poison (SS), Power Attack, Leap Attack (CV), and give it Raptor School (CW) just to use Eagle's Swoop because its so fitting. Give it Armbands of Might, Vest of Armor (as Bracers of Armor) +8, Gloves of Str +6, Monk's Belt, Necklace of Adaptation (x2 cost doesn't take an item spot), Amulet of Natural Attacks +2, Ring of Protection, Ring of Freedom of Movement, Anklets of Speed (as Horseshoes of Speed), and a Cloak of Resistance. That shouldn't even put a noticeable dent in your total wealth, and that thing will be stacked.


Furthermore,
1. Improved Elemental Wild Shape (DMG)
2. Immoth (MM2)
3. Ice Runes
4. ???
5. Profit!

Simply put, "At the end of each day before I rest, I take the form of an Immoth and store all of my remaining spells as Ice Runes." Note that the Ice Runes will remain until spent, regardless of what form you're in. That will basically give you a nigh-infinite number of stored spells, each of which can be cast as a free action for which there is technically no per-round limit to how many you can use.

Also, as-written a Druid 16 with no special feats can take the form of an Immoth, because the requirement is "Small, Medium, or Large elemental (air, earth, fire, or water)", and an Immoth is a Large elemental (both Air and Water). Most DMs will rule that you can only become a Small to Large Air Elemental, Earth Elemental, Fire Elemental, or Water Elemental, even though that restriction is completely superficial. Technicalities aside, even if you can't do it at level 16, there's absolutely no way you wouldn't be able to accomplish the Ice Runes trick once you get Improved Elemental Wild Shape.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Don't forget, your AC gets Epic feats once it passes level 20. Multiattack, Improved Multiattack, Power Attack, Leap Attack, Shock Trooper, and Martial Study always work, and then either Blinding Speed, Devastating Critical(If you meet the prereqs, a SoD every couple rounds is nice), Multiweapon Rend, or Spellcasting Harrier, to start.

[Kaiyanwang]

Remaining in elemental theme... how many HD has the TEMPEST in MMII?

[Eldariel]

I'll second the Fleshraker dinosaur (MM3), take the feat Natural Bond (CV) to still count your entire Druid level for its extra HD and other goodies. It will be 18 HD, for five extra feats, so give it Ability Focus: Poison (MM), Virulent Poison (SS), Power Attack, Leap Attack (CV), and give it Raptor School (CW) just to use Eagle's Swoop because its so fitting. Give it...Amulet of Natural Attacks +2...Cloak of Resistance. That shouldn't even put a noticeable dent in your total wealth, and that thing will be stacked.

I agree with the advice given here other than buying an Amulet of Natural Attacks +2. First of all, Amulet of Mighty Fists is more efficient for 3 or more natural attacks (when not purchasing special abilities) - Necklace of Natural Attacks +1 for 3 costs 7800, while Amulet of Mighty Fists +1 is 6000. Also, Greater Magic Fang makes all those items obsolete - you'll give it +5 to all its attacks for the whole day with just few level 3 slots. Superior Resistance (Spell Compendium) makes Cloaks of Resistance obsolete (it's +6 and lasts 24 hours per casting).

I think Gloves of Strength, Ring of Freedom of Movement and Anklets of Speed could all be replaced via spells (although I can't remember a longterm Str buff for Druid right offhand). You should definitely pump Constitution too though, since Con not only determines the thing's HP and Fort-saves, but the save DC of the poison - if you're gonna be using that a lot, might as well make it as likely to work as possible. Also, if it has Monk's Belt, might as well pump Wis.


As far as animal forms go, Dire Tortoise (Sandstorm) is an omg-form - it always acts on the surprise round. Legendary Eagle (Monster Manual II) is the best standard flyer form you can get and Dire Polar Bear (Frostburn) is a superb melee form. Sanguaro Sentinel (Sandstorm) makes for a nice overall combat form and as a bonus, can talk. Fiend Folio has Ironmaw and Octopus Tree, both of which are incredible combat forms, although they'll be losing their allure around these levels. If your DM allows you to change into higher HD versions of the lower HD forms (such as Fleshraker), that may be worth consideration too as those HDs get them extra stats and possibly size too. I don't think the epic HD of 22 adds many interesting forms without alternative wildshape feats such as Aberration Wildshape. Dire Tortoise is probably the best standard form on those levels (although if you've got access to Shapechange, none of that matters as you get to do real form abuse), but as the key to Druid's power is the versatility, it's good to keep a list handy. Me, I'd just pick Dragon Wildshape in a game without Shapechange.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

You're right on the Fleshraker items Eldariel, I was just naming off the first things that came to mind. I always mean Amulet of Mighty Fists but always call it something else. A Belt of Magnificence +6 from the Miniatures Handbook adds +6 to all stats for only 200,000 gp, that's 16,000 gp less than buying six separate +6 items. Switch the Monk's Belt to Bracers/Armwraps, and switch the Armbands of Might to Gloves, or just add the Monk's Belt properties to the Belt of Magnificence for +50% cost.

It's been quite a while since I brushed up on Druid tricks, I looked at the Dire Tortoise's Lightning Strike and said OMG. In the epic levels that just wins.

[Blackfang108]

This is a no starting wealth, no XP campaign.

(spells with XP costs can be cast, but they drain abilities instead)



I have added this to the first post. So please keep these points in mind.

Although, due to how Spontaneous casting works in this campaign(You know EVERYTHING, and can change the basic energy types[acid, fire, cold, etc.] at will), I'm thinking Sorcerer for epic casting.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

No wealth/gear??? In that case, is everyone going to make a spellcaster, or are the gear-dependent classes just going to be screwed right out of the gate? What about classes that depend on items to do anything at all, like a Wizard's Spellbook or Material Components? Are you going to be gaining gear soon/rapidly? If not, I'd strongly suggest taking Vow of Poverty (BoED) along with Epic VoP (http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-554563).

A Psion 20 can get Overchannel, Persistent Power (http://www.wizards.com/d20/files/msrd/ArcanaOccupationsandFeats.rtf), and Metapower (CP) for Persistent Timeless Body. With that he can just walk around ignoring everything that could possibly have any effect on him, including anything that would otherwise suppress or remove the Timeless Body buff. As-written, not even a deity could remove the effect, because he'd be immune to that too. At level 22 you can skip spending a feat on Metapower, and remember you can always dismiss it if you need to be affected by something helpful, then just recast it afterward. You could even Persistent Greater Metamorphosis into a Chronotyryn (FF) and then use Persistent Timeless Body, keeping all of its special attacks and qualities as well as being able to fly and getting two rounds worth of actions every round.

[Blackfang108]

No wealth/gear??? In that case, is everyone going to make a spellcaster, or are the gear-dependent classes just going to be screwed right out of the gate? What about classes that depend on items to do anything at all, like a Wizard's Spellbook or Material Components? Are you going to be gaining gear soon/rapidly?

Material components that don't have a listed cost are free/ignored, unless they're something off the wall, like the material component for the Bonebreak Spell.

This is essentially a backup Character.

Wealth amasses slowly, but getting good armor isn't overly Difficult.

Vow of Poverty does look tempting, if I go Druid.
If I go Sorcerer, I'll want my pricier material components.

This is all still a theoretical Exercise, and these are backups to the backup in case my Awakened Dire Wolf: 11 Barbarian/3 Sorcerer(for Mage hand, mage armor, and The Floating Disk) isn't approved.

I decided that I'd make Sorcerer-King or DruidZilla if that worked. Using Core and Epic handbook for everything except Wild Shape.

[Skaven]

No wealth/gear??? In that case, is everyone going to make a spellcaster, or are the gear-dependent classes just going to be screwed right out of the gate?

Some people dont really think the 'no magic gear at all' thing through at all. They just jump the gun with a little idea of 'no magic items' for a theme and don't realise that many classes are 95% dependant on gear to retain viability past level 5.

[Blackfang108]

Some people dont really think the 'no magic gear at all' thing through at all. They just jump the gun with a little idea of 'no magic items' for a theme and don't realise that many classes are 95% dependant on gear to retain viability past level 5.

It's not that.

It's a campaign feature, not a personal choice.

Otherwise I deck everythign out. (Except my Weapon. If I'm at that point, I've got bigger problems.)

[ShriekingDrake]

Furthermore,
1. Improved Elemental Wild Shape (DMG)
2. Immoth (MM2)
3. Ice Runes
4. ???
5. Profit!

Simply put, "At the end of each day before I rest, I take the form of an Immoth and store all of my remaining spells as Ice Runes." Note that the Ice Runes will remain until spent, regardless of what form you're in. That will basically give you a nigh-infinite number of stored spells, each of which can be cast as a free action for which there is technically no per-round limit to how many you can use.

Also, as-written a Druid 16 with no special feats can take the form of an Immoth, because the requirement is "Small, Medium, or Large elemental (air, earth, fire, or water)", and an Immoth is a Large elemental (both Air and Water). Most DMs will rule that you can only become a Small to Large Air Elemental, Earth Elemental, Fire Elemental, or Water Elemental, even though that restriction is completely superficial. Technicalities aside, even if you can't do it at level 16, there's absolutely no way you wouldn't be able to accomplish the Ice Runes trick once you get Improved Elemental Wild Shape. Bolding added by me.

On what basis do you make the assertion in bold above? I just made a post on the WoTC site suggesting that I would rule that the Ice Runes would disappear if the Druid changed form. But I see you've come to a different conclusion. I was wondering why.

My thinking is basically this: because the druid gets access to the Ice Runes Spell-Like ability through taking the form of the Immoth, once he is no longer in Immoth form, the access to the spell-like ability also ceases.

I'd appreciate anything you can do to shed light on your thinking here.

ShriekingDrake

[ShriekingDrake]

:thog: Bumping to see if someone is able to answer my query above.

[Smeggedoff]

hmm, the ability states that the Immoth stores the spells as nuggets of ice, if these are separate from the Immoth I see no reason why they'd vanish if the druid changes form.
however the entry does state that Immoths tend to have the nuggets embedded in their bodies, whether they are created like this or whether Immoths put them there after creation is unstated.

The Main flaw of this plan I see is that the "Ice Runes" are chunks of friggin ice, magical yes, but the ability doesn't mention strengthening the ice in any way.

So to sum up, I'd allow the runes to persist through form shifts, but the user is responsible for keeping them unmelted and may only activate them when in the form of an Immoth (as per the ability)

besides, to me the idea of an unprepared player hauling around a backpack full of volatile spells that'll start to go off after they warm up a bit to be friggen hilarious

[LittleCarp04]

Epic Spell casting, raven/small bird companion, animal shape into same nonthreatening bird, enjoy ability to confuse the hell outta enemies...

[Tsotha-lanti]

Epic Spellcasting seems like it would be useless if the PCs are going to continue to be as ridiculously poor as the OP suggests. You need hundreds of thousands of gold for that stuff.

[Stephen_E]

Tiger (non-Dire) is also a good choice.

Basically anything with pounce and -3 or -6 lev adj is excellent for damage dealing. As previously mentioned Nature Bond is a good feat. Your Animal Companion should take the feats Improved Bullrush, Power Attack, Shock Trooper and Leap Attack. This allows you to charge using a leap and reducing your AC by up to your BAB while adding twice that damage to all your attacks.

If you take Dire Wolf he/she should take the Dodge, Mobility, Elusive Target feat chain. This allows your AC to run around your enemies and for each AOO made that fails they get a free trip.



If you take a Animal Companion with -6 or higher and are willing to sacrifice a feat on Skill Focus Animal Handling, you could also take one level of Beastmaster and improve your animal companion (increase your Druid level for working out Animal Companion bonuses and stacks with Natural Bond).

There is also the option from Races of Wild to be a Arcane Heriophant. TTBOMK this still makes you an epic spellcaster but you sacrifice 1-3 Druid Caster/Wild Shaper levels (depending on whether your DM allows the use of Precocious Apprentice for easy entry into the class) giving you dual Arcane/Divine casting and Wildshaping progression. This also makes your Animal Companion a Companion Familiar gaining the best abilities of both, including a Familiars Int. Thus giving a Dire Wolf the Combat Expertise/Improved Trip feat choice.

Stephen E

[Eloel]

There's a feat called Natural Bond (non-epic) that increases your effective druid level by 3 for your companion.
A Brown Bear that treats your druid level as 19 (effectively MAX) would make your animal companion very, very strong. And if you could somehow put a single level of Beast Master (or smt like that) from CW, you could get your effective level to 28, which means you can get a dire lion at max level (or a dire bear at max-1, still keeping Improved Evasion [STRONG CHOICE!]), and lose out on only 1 level of spellcasting for it.

A Dire Bear so gotten would have
22d8 hit dice (same as you do)
36 Strength (I grapple you, you're dead)
18 Dex (And I'm still not slow)
17 Natural Armor (Nor am I vulnerable)