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Eorran
2008-11-05, 04:43 PM
I ask because it seems like a completely forgotten class. People talk about the Psion's power, Psychic Warrior's balance, and how much the Soulknife sucks, but has anyone tried a Wilder?
(I looked at the class and couldn't see any reason to choose it over a psion, so I've never tried. It looks like a bizarre hybrid of psion and Warlock to me.)

Emperor Tippy
2008-11-05, 04:48 PM
It's alright. Can be made brokenly good with access to the right sources.

Whiplord
2008-11-05, 04:48 PM
Basically, use a wilder if you want a blasty character that can go completely nuclear every once in a while.

Shishnarfne
2008-11-05, 04:53 PM
Well, compared to a Psion, it gives some more Proficiencies (making use of the fact that psionics don't have somatic components), better hit die, higher BAB, identical power point progression, and only slightly slower access to highest level powers. It also provides the "Wild Surge" mechanic, which allows you to drop even more dice on augmenting powers at the risk of ending up dazed and minus a bunch of PP... The surging euphoria boost isn't bad if you plan for it... And the ability to apply Charisma to Touch AC (to the limit of normal AC) actually makes your touch AC quite impressive...

However, you get 11 powers known. At level 20. Unless you spend some of your feats (you don't get bonus ones) on more. That's the biggest reason to avoid it.

There are some specific builds (e.g. ones that try to exploit the Surging Euphoria and/or anti-mage abilities of the class or that have too much fun with their Wild Surges) that Wilder benefits over Psion. However, it's primarily more beneficial for someone who wants to play a psionic character and doesn't want to make too many hard decisions about which power to use.

Honestly, playing a Wilder is often more of an RP-based decision than a decision based on the power of the class. He's the Psion's annoying little brother who's just not quite as cool... But in the right build, you can make the quirks of the class work for you...

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2008-11-05, 04:57 PM
A Psion who goes into Anarchic Initiate (CP) has the same flavor as a Wilder, but is a much, much stronger character. Wilder just gets too few powers known to be a viable choice under most circumstances, and then it doesn't even get access to any of the Psion's discipline lists.

Flickerdart
2008-11-05, 05:02 PM
What about the other Psion wannabe, the Erudite? It just doesn't seem all that worth it, to me.

Emperor Tippy
2008-11-05, 05:05 PM
What about the other Psion wannabe, the Erudite? It just doesn't seem all that worth it, to me.

Well it can be made massively broken, but just using the vanilla version in CP it's not horrible but it's not great.

Quirinus_Obsidian
2008-11-05, 05:58 PM
Wilder is fun; it's all about timing. Which is odd for a Chaotic only class.

Mystery Meep
2008-11-05, 06:21 PM
Mostly, the Wilder is just a lot of fun. Yes, they do have a drastically lower set of powers known--and in a campaign that's not psionics heavy, their Volatile Mind will be completely useless--but they also have more skills, armor, and weapons, and...They're fun. Wild Surge, emotional outbursts, and so forth. The Mind's Eye also came out with some spiffy variants for them.

Fax Celestis
2008-11-05, 06:29 PM
Wizard:Psion::Sorceror:Wilder

The_Snark
2008-11-05, 06:40 PM
Just a note that in addition to blasting, wilders are great with Astral Construct. Since Astral Construct is fairly powerful, versatile, and a lot of fun to use, that bumps them up a few notches, at least in my eyes.

Starbuck_II
2008-11-05, 06:52 PM
I ask because it seems like a completely forgotten class. People talk about the Psion's power, Psychic Warrior's balance, and how much the Soulknife sucks, but has anyone tried a Wilder?
(I looked at the class and couldn't see any reason to choose it over a psion, so I've never tried. It looks like a bizarre hybrid of psion and Warlock to me.)

I have played one, but never got past level 6 in the campaign.

At low levels, I hit like a warrior (Vigor + surge)= good hps.

The party was a Paladin (great axe user), Druid (wolf campanion), Wilder, Rogue/Cleric, and a Ninja (using fient/improved feint to get sudden Strike).

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2008-11-05, 07:16 PM
Just a note that in addition to blasting, wilders are great with Astral Construct. Since Astral Construct is fairly powerful, versatile, and a lot of fun to use, that bumps them up a few notches, at least in my eyes.

They'd need Expanded Knowledge: Astral Construct, which they can take no sooner than level six, at which he can make a 4th level Astral Construct with one Menu B ability. A Psion 6 with Ectopic Form: Emerald Gyre, Boost Construct, and Personal Construct (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070411a) who Overchannels (with Vigor up) can make a 4th level Emerald Gyre with Improved Grab, Trip, Celerity (one B, two A), plus an extra Menu B ability, as a Swift Action. To be great with Astral Construct take a bunch of feats and a class feature substitution that Wilders can't even get. Wild Surge is good for Astral Constructs, but Overchannel is just as good until the very late levels. Simply put, anything a Wilder can do a Psion can do better.

The_Snark
2008-11-05, 08:47 PM
They'd need Expanded Knowledge: Astral Construct, which they can take no sooner than level six, at which he can make a 4th level Astral Construct with one Menu B ability. A Psion 6 with Ectopic Form: Emerald Gyre, Boost Construct, and Personal Construct (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070411a) who Overchannels (with Vigor up) can make a 4th level Emerald Gyre with Improved Grab, Trip, Celerity (one B, two A), plus an extra Menu B ability, as a Swift Action. To be great with Astral Construct take a bunch of feats and a class feature substitution that Wilders can't even get. Wild Surge is good for Astral Constructs, but Overchannel is just as good until the very late levels. Simply put, anything a Wilder can do a Psion can do better.

Or they could use the Educated Wilder alternate class feature (from the same series of articles as the Personal Construct feature) to pick it up at level five, grab Boost Construct at level 6, and that's all they need. This isn't a build for a character focused around Astral Constructs—they've expended all of 2 feats on it, one of which had to be Expanded Knowledge (for a 1st-level power) anyway. It's just a fun little addition to a wilder.

Really, if you want a focused character and we're looking at Mind's Eye material, the best Astral Construct character is going to be a shaper going into Constructor (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040625b), with Practiced Manifester to ensure the lost manifester levels don't affect your astral constructs. Use Personal Construct feature and/or Ectopic Forms as desired.

Starbuck_II
2008-11-05, 09:55 PM
They'd need Expanded Knowledge: Astral Construct, which they can take no sooner than level six, at which he can make a 4th level Astral Construct with one Menu B ability. A Psion 6 with Ectopic Form: Emerald Gyre, Boost Construct, and Personal Construct (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070411a) who Overchannels (with Vigor up) can make a 4th level Emerald Gyre with Improved Grab, Trip, Celerity (one B, two A), plus an extra Menu B ability, as a Swift Action. To be great with Astral Construct take a bunch of feats and a class feature substitution that Wilders can't even get. Wild Surge is good for Astral Constructs, but Overchannel is just as good until the very late levels. Simply put, anything a Wilder can do a Psion can do better.

Boost Construct can't be combined with Ectopic Form feats.
Ectopic Form Feats give you zero options. They give you what they give you nothing more (which is RAW and RAI according to authors).

Prometheus
2008-11-05, 10:23 PM
Anyone played a Wilder?
Well, I hadn't known she was a Wilder when I slept with her sister, and believe she made me regret that...

its_all_ogre
2008-11-06, 05:32 AM
wilders can be a blaster that lasts all day: instead of boosting pp's to the max when you manifest use the minimal and use a wild surge to get the extra power points.
if you can find a way to be immune to dazing you're laughing. at a pinch the dragon shaman class can cure the dazed condition once they hit level 11....and wilders have high charisma.
plenty of reason to have leadership feat.