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Ghill
2008-11-05, 08:03 PM
Here's a touchy subject, how do you handle slavery in your campeign. It fits with the fantasy/medival theme of most DnD, but how should you handle slavery in game?

An Enemy Spy
2008-11-05, 08:05 PM
Same way you handle anything else. Is slavery viewed as a horrible violation of human rights or simply another facet of society?

Inyssius Tor
2008-11-05, 08:11 PM
Depends on your location. If you're in Evilslavertown, or anywhere in the Underdark, then no one is going to get all morally outraged. Elsewhere, probably a violation of human rights.

Emperor Tippy
2008-11-05, 08:14 PM
It depends on the setting, location, and mine and my players mood at the time. There are also different kinds and levels of slavery.

Starsinger
2008-11-05, 08:28 PM
Every D&D game I've ran with Orcs involves slavery, even if it's behind the scenes. Orcs are enslaved by Gruumsh. I mean look at his picture, he's not missing an eye. He's a cyclops.

(The fact that Orcs speak Giant in 4e is even further proof)

Ravens_cry
2008-11-05, 08:35 PM
I am working on a setting where the pretty 'Good' (elves, humans, and dwarfs) races banded together, and defeated the ugly 'Evil' races (orcs, trolls, and goblins) and then enslaved them.

Collin152
2008-11-05, 11:04 PM
I'd run games where one race is enslaved without a thought by another, and given players who could handle it, races that have slaves of their own kind, too.

quillbreaker
2008-11-05, 11:12 PM
If you put it in your games, especially suddenly, players will respond to it, perhaps to the exclusion of other things. Don't do it unless you think debates over / actions because of social justice will add to your game.

Besides, the interaction between slavery and magic is just weird. I wonder which is less evil on a paladin's evil-o-meter, a cotton-picking slave or a cotton-picking skeleton.

Yahzi
2008-11-05, 11:15 PM
Serfdom - the default status of the D&D peasant - is not much better.

In my world gnolls enslave and eat people. So do goblins, orcs, troglodytes, mind-flayers...

Person_Man
2008-11-05, 11:22 PM
What are these human rights you speak of? In my worlds, there are many races, and humans are just one of them. Plus none of the societies I've ever heard of in a fantasy realm have progressed anywhere close to having a large middle class living in a constitutional form of government where universal rights of any kind are recognized.

Slavery or some variation of it (like serfdom or indentured servitude) is a fact of almost every large non-mechanized agrarian culture. Plenty of people choose to ignore that in there games, because most people don't want to deal with it. And that's fine. The point of D&D is to have fun, not to accurately model sociology. But if you're going for a "realistic" game, slavery will be widespread, and few people will consider it evil.

Emperor Tippy
2008-11-05, 11:30 PM
Is it slavery if you create tons of warforged and use them for menial labor? Using Mind Rape to reset the ones who misbehave. :smallwink:

Collin152
2008-11-05, 11:33 PM
Is it slavery if you create tons of warforged and use them for menial labor? Using Mind Rape to reset the ones who misbehave. :smallwink:

We call them "Workforged", and they aren't built for combat; harder to rebel.

Dervag
2008-11-06, 12:09 AM
Yes, it is slavery if you brainwash the ones who misbehave.

It's only not slavery if they're too mindless to brainwash. As I understand the D&D rules, using golems for menial labor isn't slavery because golems haven't got any more minds than so many steam engines do. But warforged (workforged) do have minds, and therefore it is wrong to force them to work against their will. Or to butcher their minds into obedience.

SurlySeraph
2008-11-06, 12:18 AM
If you put it in your games, especially suddenly, players will respond to it, perhaps to the exclusion of other things. Don't do it unless you think debates over / actions because of social justice will add to your game.

Besides, the interaction between slavery and magic is just weird. I wonder which is less evil on a paladin's evil-o-meter, a cotton-picking slave or a cotton-picking skeleton.

Well, it's not really slavery if it's a mindless creature. So I'd say the normal slave would be worse.


We call them "Workforged", and they aren't built for combat; harder to rebel.

Collin, I refuse to hear your opinions on anything related to mindrape. It's not that you're not an expert; in fact, your very expertise is why I don't want to know what you have to say about it.

Mastikator
2008-11-06, 12:48 AM
I use medival morality, which hasn't yet learned that much about stuff like equal rights and stuff like that.
Any time there is a king or noble landowner, anyone living in that kingdome or land is for all intent and purpose the slave of the king / noble.

Pretty much all races and places use some degree of slavery. Except for perhaps Paladintown.

Piedmon_Sama
2008-11-06, 12:55 AM
Most of my settings have a basic feudal premise, so yeah, effective slavery exists. They're usually based on the Late Middle Ages, though, so serfdom is actually fairly rare in your typical Pseudo-Chivalric England/France state. You'll only find bonded men in distant/remote provinces. In more central areas, serfs can negotiate for better wages/conditions and purchase their own freedom.

I treat it as an essentially Neutral quality of society. It can never be good, but it can be evil if the Peasants are abused/mistreated.

Chas the mage
2008-11-06, 12:56 AM
You could have a few outlooks from society on slavery:
-they hate it
-they dont care; it is daily life to them
-they dont know about it
-they are glad its not them
-they love it

you could roll on a D12 for slave involved stuff too!
1: You/ a member of the party is mistaken for a slave, and treated as the law decrees
2: a random slave jumps out and attacks you
3: the slaves start an internal rebellion
4: the citizens rebel against slavery; maybe enduce them into an anti-slavery group
5: A slave escapes and offers to join your party
6: A slavemaster gives away his/her slaveto you (intimidate checks may be needed...)
7: slave break out/run away
8: the players are asked if they would like to purchase slaves
9: the slaves start working faster than ever-the economy increases
10:there is a govrnmental despute, leading to a group of un-lead slaves
11:a theif group tries to make the party their slaves
12:a riot occurs and anti-slave people beat up everyone

I guess the D12 doesent have to dry itself to sleep tonight... :smallmad:

SurlySeraph
2008-11-06, 01:33 AM
Pretty much all races and places use some degree of slavery. Except for perhaps Paladintown.

I can definitely see paladins tolerating slavery as long as the slaves are well-treated. Chaotic Good characters are the ones who'd never accept it.

Frosty
2008-11-06, 02:19 AM
This brings up the question of how ethical it is to create a race purely for work-horse purposes and totally obedient soldiers...like the Jem'Hadar or the Warforged.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-11-06, 02:21 AM
This brings up the question of how ethical it is to create a race purely for work-horse purposes and totally obedient soldiers...like the Jem'Hadar or the Warforged.Not at all. As in, horrid. If you get squicked by the Clone Troops in Star Wars, you know what I mean.

Alaris
2008-11-06, 02:50 AM
In the game I"m playing in, it's around everywhere. I mean... it's illegal, but it still happens.

Well, it's illegal in some places.

The players deal with it well, so there isn't any real problem.

Totally Guy
2008-11-06, 03:19 AM
My campaign has mostly taken place in an ex-slavery city. The populace had just voted in their elections and the good candidate triumphed over the evil candidate (the previous mayor). The act of selling slaves was looked down upon as evil in my world, not the act of using them maybe more similar to the opinion of drugs.

Proven_Paradox
2008-11-06, 04:34 AM
My campaign world has civilizations that have (as Person Man put it) "progressed [...] to having a large middle class living in a constitutional form of government where universal rights [...] are recognized." Basically, most people's mindsets are similar in many ways to those of people in reality, and as such slavery happens in the shadows and would quickly be condemned by society. (Also, for the most part magic = technology, with one country being a glaring exception.)

That said, it DOES happen--and I fully expect the PCs to respond with outrage when/if they encounter it. It's a plot hook. *Shrug*

bosssmiley
2008-11-06, 04:35 AM
you could roll on a D12 for slave involved stuff too!
1: You/a member of the party is mistaken for a slave, and treated as the law decrees
2: a random slave jumps out and attacks you
3: the slaves start an internal rebellion
4: the citizens rebel against slavery; maybe induce them into an anti-slavery group
5: A slave escapes and offers to join your party
6: A slavemaster gives away his/her slave to you (intimidate checks may be needed...)
7: slave break out/run away
8: the players are asked if they would like to purchase slaves
9: the slaves start working faster than ever-the economy increases
10:there is a governmental dispute, leading to a group of unled slaves
11:a thief group tries to make the party their slaves
12:a riot occurs and anti-slave people beat up everyone

I guess the D12 doesn't have to cry itself to sleep tonight... :smallmad:

Random 'stuff happens' tables are love. Yoinked. :smallbiggrin:

IMG slavery is usually just a fact of life; an extension of D&D's default proto-feudalism. You have the Hobgoblins with their rigid caste system, the quasi-Anglo-Saxon with their term-limited indentured servitude, pseudo-Rus barbarians with a form of laissez faire serfdom, the subtropical kingdom with fan- and litter-slaves.

Chain-gang labour servitude hasn't made an appearance yet, but I am thinking of bringing back the Scarlet Brotherhood as a kind of Ku Klux Klan of exploitative blackbirders and plantation owners. There's nothing quite like villains that need a good kicking.

Ashtar
2008-11-06, 05:22 AM
Things I've found about using slavery in a campaign world is that it is important to really think about it and discuss it with your players. If it is a natural part of the accepted campaign then you will need the following:

You need mature players.
You need to discuss it with the players, tell them how the campaign world sees slavery and discover how their character would see it.
Find the in world justification and rules for slavery (Are slaves convicts, prisonners of war, indebted servants, ...).
Is one born a slave or a free man?
Who can execute a slave, its owner, the state or anyone (there might be compensation, but no condemnation) ?
What are slaves used for, what positions are available for slaves (Hard labor, Gladiatorial games, Scholar, Farming, Crafting, Art, Entertainment) ?
What ratio of slaves to free men do you find in cities, villages, outposts?
What is the moral compass action for slavery in the world ? IE: How does alignment enter views of slavery.


An example of alignment views could be:
Lawful = "Of course he's a slave, that's the way he was born, it's natural order. / (G) And I treat him well / (E) My slaves get what they need to be useful, no more."
Neutral = "Slavery is the way the world works, it's natual balance between the higher (free) and lower classes."
Chaotic (E) = "I'm stronger than him, so I bash him and reduce him to my slave."
Chaotic (G) = "I bought him, and when he's worked some time, I'll let him go a free man."

I find that if you don't prepare it, the campaign generally orients towards "Slavery is bad, free them!" and sometimes it just doesn't fit the world / your campaign.

goram.browncoat
2008-11-06, 06:27 AM
Maybe its just me, but im not seeing the big deal. Its a fantasy setting, slavery is in many cases a part of these settings. Weve all seen movies/series and read books where slavery was a part of the setting in some fashion (be it as accepted or frowned upon part of society). Why is it supposedly so hard to deal with when it occurs?

Just explain how slavery works in your setting (accepted/illegal) and have your player characters (not players, theres a difference) make up their minds about how they feel about it. I can imagine that in a society where it is accepted, most player characters would simply not care about it unless theres something about their character that makes them against it (father was a slave, whatever). Whereas in a society where slavery is not accepted, most player characters would try to free some slaves where they see the opportunity.

I don't see how this is particularly different than how to handle government (king vs elected official), law enforcement (organised or not?) and other mundane things in the campaign. Just pick a system and roll with it. Who cares if slavery is bad in real life, its a game. Murdering is pretty bad as well in real life, yet most PCs spend their career murdering stuff and nobody thinks twice about it.

Ethdred
2008-11-06, 06:39 AM
This brings up the question of how ethical it is to create a race purely for work-horse purposes and totally obedient soldiers...like the Jem'Hadar or the Warforged.



My gift to industry is the genetically engineered worker, or Genejack. Specially designed for labor, the Genejack's muscles and nerves are ideal for his task, and the cerebral cortex has been atrophied so that he can desire nothing except to perform his duties. Tyranny, you say? How can you tyrannize someone who cannot feel pain?

Name that game! (Or just read Brave New World:smallsmile:)

Of course you have to have slavery - otherwise who are the party going to rescue from the rampaging orcs/drow/bugbears/illithids/insert other classic race?

Ragabash
2008-11-06, 09:04 AM
It would be a mistake to think that a PC opposing slavery is unusual, even in a society that largely accepts it. As long as there has been slavery, there have been people who have fought against it.

Duke of URL
2008-11-06, 09:43 AM
Slavery plays a part in the campaign setting I'm working on -- it's a logical extension of the setting assumptions, and plays well into the history and feel I'm trying to create.

It starts out very "justifiable" -- slavery as a punishment for criminals, but as the demands for cheap labor grow, the definition of "criminal" gets expanded and captives are included. Eventually, captives are sought, to add to the slave ranks.

In a mixed urban/rural society, the "elites" in the urban areas turn a blind eye toward the practice, as it's not really visible to them, though those involved with the "trade" are considered low-caste. Out in the rural areas, where the slaves are kept and used, it's a much more present situation; peasants fear a bad season, where they may run into debts that might turn them into slaves.

Triaxx
2008-11-06, 09:48 AM
I've thrown it at my players repeatedly, and my homebrew setting even has a country that has the standard human/human slavery. Since it's almost as large as the rest of the empire on the continent and has more people, there's not a lot that can be done about it, but one of the challenges is usually to free a group of slaves.

weenie
2008-11-06, 11:15 AM
When your players encounter cultists who slaughter innocents to raise undead from their corpses on a daily basis, slavery shouldn't be such a big issue.

Telonius
2008-11-06, 11:28 AM
Different societies might have different ideas of what being a slave might entail. In real life, there's been a wide range of forced servitude throughout the centuries. Some have been worse than others. In some societies, slaves have been considered "owned persons," with rights and so on. In others, slaves were considered property, with no human rights. Sometimes slaves could own property, other times they couldn't. In some cases you were born into slavery, and can never leave; in others, you were born into it but could be freed. Sometimes you can have the status imposed on you, other times you can't. Sometimes there are social norms about how badly you're allowed to treat a slave; sometimes there aren't. The social status and physical occupation of slaves has varied widely. Slaves might be military conscripts, generals, farm labor, ditch-diggers, sex workers, teachers, engineers, government officials, and who knows what else. If you really want to make a game world that includes slavery "realistic," you'd have to determine where it falls on all of those things.

I generally agree with Ashtar's assessment of other sorts of things you'd need to consider.