[3.5] 7th level character going into Windwright Captain build advice

[sebsmith]

Okay, since I'm about to start a new game with another member of this board, I'd like your advice. The only special rules I think matter for this are 3 times normal gold and 36 point buy, but I'll tell you if anything else comes up. I have, or can get, just about any wizards book, but I'll need dm permission for any prestige class and a link to anything not from a wizards book.

I'm currently planning on a Magic-Blooded (http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/DnD3.0Index-Templates.pdf) half-elf. For in-game reasons, the spell-casting class I'm taking is bard, so my current plan is bard 6/dragonmark heir 1. My current plan for starting ability scores is: STR: 11 DEX: 14 CON: 12 INT: 16 WIS: 6 CHA: 19, and then I'd put my 4th level increase into charisma. My current plan for flaws is Breeds Possessiveness (http://www.roleplaynexus.com/flawsai.html) and Daredevil (same source).

Any build critiques or advice on spells, skills, feats, substitution levels or anything else would be much appreciated. I know I need to take Favored in House and Least Dragonmark, and I plan to take Leadership, Stormrider, and Dragonmark prodigy; however, I don't know how good being dragonmark focused is.

Edit:
Windwright Captain is here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050803a&page=3). I said this later in the thread, but I thought it would be more useful here: I'm trying to make a good Windwright Captain, not a good bard. I'm only using bard because I need something with spells, and bardic knowledge will make it easier to be the captain in the game.

[golentan]

Given that I'm nice, I'll allow Perform (Military Drill) to work with bardic performances (though not to make money in street shows). That way you can inspire your crew with useful orders, instead of prancing around the ship playing a lute at them. Other than that, I got nothing to help you. Tried looking up some substitution levels, but nothing quite fit.

He's trying to build a useful Naval officer, just so you know.

[sebsmith]

I found the half-elf bard substitution levels in Races of Destiny, but I wasn't sure if they would be useful (page 157). Since I currently have 9 skills per level, I'd guess I should max Balance, Profession(sailor), Use Magic Device, Perform (Military Drill), Perform (Sing), Diplomacy, Knowledge (Geography) (since it's used for navigation checks), Bluff, and something else. Also I just found that Dragonmark Heir doesn't have Profession, so this build won't actually work, joy.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

The Half-Elf Bard 1 substitution level is completely amazing. First of all, Countersong is so worthless that any replacement for it feels like you're giving up nothing to gain something for free. Second, the Calm Emotions effect with a Diplomacy check for the DC may as well not even allow a saving throw, nothing will save without a natural 20. I probably wouldn't replace Suggestion with Command with the Bard 6 substitution level, but Bard 8 would be worth it if you plan on picking Sending as a spell known anyway. That wouldn't be a bad choice if you'll be out at sea and want to communicate with someone on the mainland or on another ship, you'd get a few extra low-level spells known that you otherwise wouldn't have access to.

I don't know anything about Eberron or Dragonmarks, but it doesn't sound like something to focus too heavily on. Bards are fairly feat-starved as it is, and there are just so many good feats you can take. With such a high Int score you may as well take Versatile Performer (CV) and spend those skill points somewhere else. Check out this Bard Handbook (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=952766) for useful advice on building/playing a Bard.

You should check to see if you could play a Race of Water or Race of Air (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=952766), tacked on top of your Magic-Blooded Half-Elf (and possibly the source of being magic-blooded in the first place). They have no Level Adjustment, and judging by the examples of each a Race of Air gets +2 Dex and -2 Con, and a Race of Water gets +2 Con, in addition to the general traits for each. If you're going to be at sea the Swim speed or Breathless traits of those would be well worth it.

[sebsmith]

First, could you fix the link to the race of air, I can't find it. Second, the campaign was detailed here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95703&goto=nextoldest). Third, we're going flying, not sailing.

I hope I don't sound too critical, thanks for your advice. If I'm really lucky I'll get more feats, but I shouldn't count on that.


Edit:
It looks like my feat list is now: Favored in House, Least Dragonmark, Leadership, Versatile Performer, and Melodic Casting. At least assuming nobody has a different idea on what to do with my 5 (:smallfrown:) feats.

[Project_Mayhem]

Given that I'm nice, I'll allow Perform (Military Drill) to work with bardic performances (though not to make money in street shows). That way you can inspire your crew with useful orders, instead of prancing around the ship playing a lute at them. Other than that, I got nothing to help you. Tried looking up some substitution levels, but nothing quite fit.

He's trying to build a useful Naval officer, just so you know.

scrap Perform (Military Drill) - you want Perfom (Gilbert and Sullivan)

[golentan]

Are you perchance referencing the HMS Pinafore? Because I have confidence in Seb's competence, regardless of jabs. Even though he did burn down his own capital, twice, with the equivalent of a cantrip.

Good times.

I think the races of air/water are the variant races of UA, but they don't seem like they give very good benefits for what you get.

[sebsmith]

Project_Mayhem, to some extent, that was why I chose sing for my other perform.

Everyone, the burning down the capital thing was an accident, besides, I didn't get the whole city either time, so it's okay. Also, I'm trying to make a good Windwright Captain, not a good bard. I'm just using bard for bardic knowledge (to be captain in the game) and spells (Windwright captain requires minimal spell-casting). The best variant race (as always, it seems) is desert, but that doesn't make that much sense for the build, I think.

[ocato]

L7 Bard with 5 feats eh? First let me direct you to something that oozes sex. Under "Bards" in the Eberron Campaign Setting list of class adaptations, you are given the ability to trade new forms of music for certain bardic music feats found in that book. While it specifically says 3rd, 6th, 9th (etc) level, if your DM loves you, he'll let you replace Countersong with Song of the Heart. If he doesn't, just replace Inspire Competence. Bam, you've got 1 extra feat.

As for perform, obviously a good choice would be Perform (oratory) to give rousing speeches to your men before/during the fight. Instead of making them fight better by marching (no strategy survives contact), fill them with morale by giving them a stirring speech. Shout that you will never surrender! Shout that on this day, no spartans sailors will die!

As for the rest, let me think...

Versatile Performer is kind of a trap. I used to love this feat too, but honestly, it's a trap. Especially if singing or speaking was your first choice for bardic music. Ask your DM to take the Bardic Knack alternate class feature (PHB2) instead of bardic lore. Put a rank or four in stringed instrument or dance or whatever you want (unless you have a prereq to meet). Bardic Knack effectively means you can sub half your bard levels for the amount of ranks you have in a skill. So if you have 1 rank in Perform (Juggling) and you're a 10th level bard, you can make the check as if you had 5 ranks in it. Pump your main perform as normal.

I'm a big fan of Melodic casting. If you sing instead of playing an instrument, you can effectively fight, cast, fly, and crow just like pan without having to stop your song. All you have to stop for is to use a scroll or a wand.

Now, I don't know how attached you are to your dragonmark/house stuff. I'm not a big dragonmark guy, so I typically pass it over. However if you feel that you really need it for your character's backstory, then by all means go for it. If you're looking for some BANG in exchange for those bucks, I'd be happy to offer a few suggestions.

Captivating Melody (CMage): Trade 1 song for +2 to a DC for an enchantment or illusion spell. Let's face it, you don't have enough music or time to sing 7 songs a day. If you do, you're fighting very long fights or being a little irresponsible with it. Either way, rethink your style and fit this in. It's like 4 feats (spell focus/greater spell focus in both enchantment and illusion) for the price of one. Save it for those times where you really need to beat a Cleric's will save or something equally risky and you won't regret it.

Knowledge Devotion (Cchamp): Have at least one rank in each knowledge skill (except Architecture, Geography, and History) and Bardic knack? Now you can make a decent skill roll versus everything you meet. If you get a good roll, you're looking at +2 or +3 to attacks and damage for the rest of the fight versus them. I suggest pumping whatever knowledge skill pertains to the most common enemy (Local=humanoids is often) and putting 5 ranks in nobility for the diplo synergy. A great way to throw +3-5 on your attacks/damage. Grab the "Collector of Stories" skill trick for +5 to checks in this vein.

Now, a lot of folks will give you this long, complicated shenanigan-laden build with Snowflake Wardance (which fatigues you for Ten Minutes after using, which may be like sex, but is not that sexy), power attack, and draconic inspiration. They want you to stack 3 songs and pretend you're a barbarian. The main problem is that by time you get this going, the fight is over or you/half the party are dead. If things start going well, someone turns around and eats your d6 hit die/light armored butt. Bards do everything. Don't get married to some combination of moves that start each fight. You'll get bored and the DM will eat you.

Having said that, some battle-barding is good to have around. At L7 you can cast a good hunk of spells. Inspirational Boost and Improvisation are spells worth considering. If you're looking for items, the Vest of Legends (DMG2), Crystal Echoblade (MiC), and Badge of Valor (MiC) are three items that will live on your body forever. I could go on, but I'm sleepy and this is probably random/disjointed.

[PaladinBoy]

... This sounds a lot like what I was aiming for with one of my recent characters, Elina d'Lyrandar.

It depends. When you say that your build is focused on Windwright Captain, do you mean that you'd like to focus on your dragonmark? If so, I would recommend getting into Dragonmark Heir ASAP and getting a greater dragonmark, then taking the Dragonmark Visionary feat for the storm touch ability, which is one of the only actual damaging powers you can get with a Mark of Storm. Adding some levels of Storm Sentry gives you some nice abilities which make it very easy to kick people off your ship, and it gives you something to do with extra uses of control weather.

I will say this: Windwright Captain and a Mark of Storm give many useful abilities for traveling and naval combat (so long as you can fly through the storms you can summon) but rather limited abilities to kill people in face-to-face combat. And focusing your feats and class levels on dragonmark abilities will make your bard abilities a mostly useless footnote.

Let me list the feats I found useful:
-Dragonmark Adept (for binding winds). You have to concentrate to hold an enemy still. Combine with the bard spell sonorous hum from the Spell Compendium, which removes the need for concentration.
-Dragonmark Visionary (for storm touch). If you want your dragonmark to do anything for face-to-face combat, you'll want this. 10d6 is not very good, but it can stun the target.
-Mighty Dragonmark. A lot of your best tricks can be stopped with a saving throw; this will help you increase that.

I wouldn't bother with Stormrider; it doesn't improve your protection that much. Feats like Quicken Dragonmark can be replaced with the channeling rods in the ECS. A dragonmark focus, from the same book, may also be useful. I think there's an item called a fuel shard in Magic of Eberron which will help improve saving throw DCs, but it's one time use; you'll need more than one of those.

You can have some impressive abilities; I had CL 20 on my dragonmark abilities at level 12 (10+4 dragonmark heir levels+4 dragonmark focus+2 Mighty Dragonmark). The saving throw DCs are the big weak point; drive those as high as possible. Send your Charisma through the roof.

[sebsmith]

Thanks you two. The only problem with Dragonmark Heir is that it doesn't have Profession as a class and Windwright Captain requires 10 ranks in Profession(Sailor). I just asked goletan privately if there would be a way to get around that.

[sebsmith]

Okay, feats are currently:

1st: skill knowledge (profession(sailor),use magic device), favored in house, Least Dragonmark

3rd: Melodic Casting

6th: Leadership

Skills are currently:

4+ Balance
max Profession(sailor)
max Use Magic Device
max Perform (Military Drill or Oratory[advice please?])
max Diplomacy
7+ Knowledge (Geography) (since it's used for navigation checks)
max Bluff
4+ ranks Spell-craft
5+ ranks Knowledge (history)

Any further advice?

[drunkmonk]

Ask your DM about a feat called landlord and apply the gp to your airship.

We did this and it was lots of fun. The ship was called the Amber Bell. I remember the game more than most.

DM

[golentan]

Point: Landlord requires 9th level, and the game starts at level 7.

Point: He's already getting the ship basically free of charge, with some funds for equipping it, and he'll get elemental propulsion soon. More seems excessive.

Point: Landlord specifically says funds can only be applied to a stronghold. I don't feel like houseruling against that and I don't really have a good vision of where he'd be getting the funds from.

Landlord is a no go.

Scourge of the seas would give some nice benefits for ship to ship combat and forcing enemies to surrender. All Seb'd need to meet the prereqs are 5 ranks in intimidate, and a distinctive standard. Trying to remain positive and helpful here.

[sebsmith]

Okay the character is currently:Traster Magesblood d'Lyrandar
Male Magic-Blooded Half-Elf Bard 4/Dragonmark Heir 3
TN Medium Humanoid (Elf)
Init +5; Senses Low-Light Vision; Listen +0, Spot +0
Languages Common, Elven, Orc, Dwarf, Gnome

AC 25 (+3 Dex +5 armor +2 shield +1 insight +2 deflection +2 natural armor), Touch 16, Flat-Footed 22
hp 30 (7 HD)
Immune Sleep
Fort +5, Ref +9, Will +5 (+2 vs Enchantment)

Speed 40 ft
//Ranged Mwk Light Crossbow +6 (1d8, 19-20/x2)
//Melee Mwk Rapier +6 (1d6, 18-20/x2)
Base Atk +5; Grp +5
Combat gear
Spells known
Bard Spells Known (CL 4th):
2nd (1/day, DC 19{17}) -- Alter Self, Cure Moderate Wounds.
1st (4/day, DC 18{16}) -- Charm Person, Feather Fall, Grease.
0th (3/day, DC 17{15}) -- Detect Magic, Mage Hand, Mending, Prestidigitation, Read Magic, Songbird.
Magic-Blooded Spells known (CL 7th):
Detect Magic, 1/day.
Nystul’s Magic Aura, 1/day.
Nystul’s Undetectable Aura, 1/day.
Read Magic, 1/day.
Dragonmark Spells known (CL 9):
Gust of Wind, 2/day (DC 19{17})
Wind's favor, 2/day

Abilities Str 11, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 16, Wis 6, Cha 24 {20 base}
SQ Elf Blood (all bonuses included above)
Feats
skill knowledge (profession(sailor),use magic device), favored in house,
Least Dragonmark, Leadership, Melodic Casting (Complete Mage 45)
bonus feat (Lesser Dragonmark, Obscure Lore)
Flaws
Breeds Possisiveness[Tragic], Daredevil
Traits
Quick
Skills
Balance 8 +2 +4 +2
Bluff 17 +7 +10 {bonus from cloak}
Diplomacy 19 +7 +10 +2 {bonus from cloak}
Gather Information 17 +7 +8 +2 {bonus from cloak}
Knowledge (History) 8 +3 +5
Knowledge (Geography) 10 +3 +7
Knowledge (arcana) 5 +3 +2
Listen -1 -2 +1
Perform (Military Drill) 17 +7 +10 {bonus from cloak}
Profession (Sailor) 8 -2 +10
Search 4 +3 +1
Spellcraft 15 +3 +10 +2
Spot -1 -2 +1
Use Magic Device 17 +7 +10 {bonus from cloak}
Possessions
2,065 gp
+4 Cloak of Charisma
+2 Chain Shirt
+1 Mithral buckler
+1 Rapier
Belt of Battle
Ring of protection +2
Amulet of natural armor +2
Dusty rose prism ioun stone
4 least fuel shards
2 lesser fuel shards

Class Abilities
Bardic Knowledge (+13 modifier)
Bardic Song (4/day; Soothing Voice, Fascinate, Inspire Competence, Inspire Courage +1)

Allegiances
Lyrandar (home cluster/city and Noble Patron)
Those under my command,
Myself,
My Superior officer,
The Empire,
The Admiralty
Emperor Gozan,
Emperor Zathrunan (Note, by the time you get here, I really don't care about you anymore).

Hook "Nothing can stop us now!"
Height 5 ft 4 in; Weight 145 lbs.; Hair Blond; Skin Pale; Eyes Green; Age 38; Patron Deity -If anyone had any last suggestions, questions, critiques, or advice now is probably the last time to give the. Also, an advice for my cohort would be appreciated. Thanks for all the help you've given so far.

[Windrage]

Sorry for the super-necro.

But.

Is it still possible to make it towards a windwright captain, when there is only divine magic in the campaign?