Is the Oracle a jerk?

[Assassin89]

I have a theory that the Oracle has no idea how to be a good professional oracle

He omits the fact that Miko caused the explosion of the castle (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0567.html)
Belkar's meaning of "cause the death" meant Belkar was directly involved
He is an extortionist because he attempts to avoid answering questions with a straight answer and demands a high price
Insults others


Edit: title changed due to different nature of thread

[Kroy]

I doubt he can't tell the future, he is just very bad at it

[BRC]

I doubt he can't tell the future, he is just very bad at it
No, he's just a jerk.

[Niley]

I doubt he can't tell the future, he is just very bad at it

He can tell the future and he's good at it, but he's like all the other oracles - he thinks his answers must be irrelevant. Besides, he's a mischievious little kobold :smallbiggrin: .

[Kroy]

Good point

[VorenianTarian]

Belkar may have meant it as being directly involved, but he didn't specify that in the question, and oracles do tend to take things literally.
Anyway, he was directly involved- although he was raised afterwards, Belkar definitely killed the Oracle.

[Kish]

Your phrasing makes it hard to me to tell what you mean, but if you're suggesting the Oracle can't actually see the future: Eugene only knows the sorcerer who killed his master is named Xykon because the Oracle told him.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

The only cryptic responses that we've ever seen the Oracle give are the ones to Haley and Vaarsuvius. It just so happens that even when being direct, the Oracle is sure to only answer the specific question asked and never give any more information than that. The Oracle's customers pay for one answer, and that's all they get.

And remember, Belkar only asked if he would cause the death of one of the people he mentioned. The crap about how he "caused" Miko's death was just the Oracle being an ass. The prophecy was directly fulfilled only through Belkar murdering the Oracle.

[Zordrath]

I think the Oracle is an extremely capable fortune-teller, but he simply doesn't care whether the answers he gives are of any use to his customers. He already got his money, they can't do anything to get back at him (not even psychopaths like Belkar), and he's the only oracle around, so even if a customer is not satisfied, if he wants to know the future a second time, he has to go to the Oracle again and pay him (just like Roy had to).

[MReav]

The Oracle only has to tell the truth when his powers are invoked. If he lies outside of that in a desperate attempt to not have them murder him, it's fair game.

He knows exactly what he's doing. He's just an ass.

[Warlord JK]

The Oracle not useless, just a major *******.

[Assassin89]

Considering that the Kobold gained his powers without the necessary cleric levels (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0566.html), the oracle is not that reliable because it makes him believe that he can do anything he wants.

[David Argall]

I have a theory that the Oracle has no idea what he is doing.

He omits the fact that Miko caused the explosion of the castle (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0567.html)
Belkar's meaning of "cause the death" meant being directly involved
He is an extortionist because he attempts to avoid answering questions with a straight answer


Now the Oracle is next to useless, but not for the offered reasons.

The exact details of Miko's death are unimportant to the question of whether Belkar was a cause of it.
What Belkar meant is largely irrelevant. He asked a question and got the correct answer. That he should have asked a different question is his problem. [And, as has been noted, Belkar did kill the Oracle, so even within Belkar's meaning, the Oracle was correct.]
And the Oracle has been providing entirely straight answers. Incomplete and not very useful ones, but quite clearly straight. "yes", "his name is Xykon", "in his throne room"... All straight answers.

[Morty]

Considering that the Kobold gained his powers without the necessary cleric levels (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0566.html), the oracle is not that reliable because it makes him believe that he can do anything he wants.

What do cleric levels have to do with anything? Oracle can see the future, whether it's thanks to clerical spells or power directly granted by Tiamat makes little difference.

[Assassin89]

Those lizard men cheated death of being stabbed to death (http://irregularwebcomic.net/cast/death.html) by resurrecting the Oracle and cheating death should kill the Oracle sooner or later.

Let us hope that there is a death of being a complete jerk that collects the soul of the Oracle and curses him to a realm where he is constantly tortured due to his arrogance.

[Mercenary Pen]

No, the Oracle is not useless until proven useless.

Thus far, we have not had any oracular predictions proven false... Indeed, when the Oracle tried to convince Belkar that he had caused Miko's/Roy's death, this was merely an attempt to prevent Belkar from killing him. Sure, he had also taken the precaution of arranging a resurrection, but he doesn't want to lose a level on that unless he really has to.

[chiasaur11]

He'd get out of that too.

He's cunning.

Also, he seems to have some sort of obligation to answer the question asked and only the question asked.

See his response to Roy.

[Querzis]

It seems quite obvious that you are just an Oracle haters and a Belkar fan with your last post Assassin 89. The title of the thread wasnt «is the Oracle a jerk» it was «is the Oracle useless» which he definitly isnt. Hes actually very effective in his predictions until now.

By the way:


cheating death should kill the Oracle sooner or later.

How is that suppose to make any sense?

[evileeyore]

Also, he seems to have some sort of obligation to answer the question asked and only the question asked.

See his response to Roy.

Yeah, and his response was to try to get Roy to ask the right question. Roy outsmartted himself, as PCs are like to do.

But don;t take the Oracle's atttempt as a sign of being a nice guy. He knew these guys would come back (Belkar at least) and was trying to avert them holding him out a window again.

Like most Oracles, he can see alot but probably not all of the future (note, he keeps getting visitors whilst in bath time).

[Assassin89]

It seems quite obvious that you are just an Oracle haters and a Belkar fan with your last post Assassin 89. The title of the thread wasnt «is the Oracle a jerk» it was «is the Oracle useless» which he definitly isnt. Hes actually very effective in his predictions until now.

By the way:



How is that suppose to make any sense?

First off, I am not a Belkar fan. I just don't like the deceitful nature of the Oracle. I will change the title though
What I am saying is that the Oracle will eventually push his luck too far, resulting in a death from which he cannot be resurrected.

[chiasaur11]

Yeah, and his response was to try to get Roy to ask the right question. Roy outsmartted himself, as PCs are like to do.

But don;t take the Oracle's atttempt as a sign of being a nice guy. He knew these guys would come back (Belkar at least) and was trying to avert them holding him out a window again.

Like most Oracles, he can see alot but probably not all of the future (note, he keeps getting visitors whilst in bath time).

Didn't say the guy was nice.

Said he has to answer the question asked.

He probably also wanted the world not to die. It does seem to be where he keeps his stuff.

[raphfrk]

What I am saying is that the Oracle will eventually push his luck too far, resulting in a death from which he cannot be resurrected.

Someone who can see the future doesn't need luck. He can predict the outcome.

Ofc, he would have to remember to ask "does anyone attempt to kill me and then cast soul bind?" every morning. If Yes, then he needs to figure out a way out of it.

[Kish]

I'd just like to note that the answer to the initial thread title was "No, duh," and the answer to the revised thread title is "Yes, duh." The Oracle has has quite a significant effect on the plot and demonstrated the power of his predictions regularly; he's also shown himself to be a jerk whenever he appears.

[Hungry Kobold]

I think the Oracle is an extremely capable fortune-teller, but he simply doesn't care whether the answers he gives are of any use to his customers. He already got his money, they can't do anything to get back at him (not even psychopaths like Belkar), and he's the only oracle around, so even if a customer is not satisfied, if he wants to know the future a second time, he has to go to the Oracle again and pay him (just like Roy had to).

That's exactly it. He's just apathetic. He's there to perform a service, and even if the customer isn't satisfied they don't even remember being dissatisfied, so why should he care?


Edit: wait, this used to be a discussion of whether he was useless or not? Are we reading the same comic?

[Innis Cabal]

I have a theory that the Oracle has no idea what he is doing in true oracle class.

He omits the fact that Miko caused the explosion of the castle (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0567.html)
Belkar's meaning of "cause the death" meant being directly involved
He is an extortionist because he attempts to avoid answering questions with a straight answer


1. He was never asked about that.
2. No, it means what is going to lead to my death.
3. Do you even know what a real oracle is? This -makes- him a bloody oracle.

[chiasaur11]

The new thread name has only one reasonable answer.

Yes.

Of course, that's part of why some of us like him so much.

[[TS] Shadow]

The Oracle is a loveable kind of jerk, but still a jerk. I'd file him with Xykon and Belkar as ***holes we all love.

[Eraniverse]

In defense of his jerkitude, oracle has to be one of the most maddening professions ever. There's a reason most of the famous ones were insane or child-like.

Golden Paths are hard to manage.

[TerrickTerran]

Is he a jerk? Yeah, most definitely. It's part of what makes him so fun in my book.

[Querzis]

First off, I am not a Belkar fan. I just don't like the deceitful nature of the Oracle. I will change the title though
What I am saying is that the Oracle will eventually push his luck too far, resulting in a death from which he cannot be resurrected.

...ok so with this title yeah I agree with you. Thats it? That was really the only point you were trying to make? Half of the character in the comic are jerks.

[Studoku]

He omits the fact that Miko caused the explosion of the castle (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0567.html)
He had no reason to mention it.


Belkar's meaning of "cause the death" meant Belkar was directly involved
He is an extortionist because he attempts to avoid answering questions with a straight answer and demands a high price
This is basic oracling. Most oracles in fiction will twist wording of questions and/or give vague answers


Insults others
Ordinarily this could be considered crappy customer service, but the oracle has the memory charm. Since nobody will remember it anyway, he has no reason to be nice to people.

[Eben]

I don't think he's a jerk to everyone. He was pretty polite to the guys who resurrected him.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0571.html

Maybe he's just speciesist, or maybe he knows something about the Order's future that makes him dislike them, or maybe he just really doesn't like them because Roy dangled him out of a window. I'm not sure which.

[Assassin89]

I don't think he's a jerk to everyone. He was pretty polite to the guys who resurrected him.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0571.html

Maybe he's just speciesist, or maybe he knows something about the Order's future that makes him dislike them, or maybe he just really doesn't like them because Roy dangled him out of a window. I'm not sure which.

I wonder what would happen if the Oracle met these guys (http://irregularwebcomic.net/cast/fantasy.html). Considering that one of them is a lizardman, it would be interesting if said lizardman injured the oracle for speaking badly about others.

[chiasaur11]

I don't think he's a jerk to everyone. He was pretty polite to the guys who resurrected him.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0571.html

Maybe he's just speciesist, or maybe he knows something about the Order's future that makes him dislike them, or maybe he just really doesn't like them because Roy dangled him out of a window. I'm not sure which.

He mainly seems to be a jerk towards his clients.

What that means, I dunno, but it explains a fair deal.

[Prowl]

Has there ever been an oracle in any story, anywhere, who has actually given straight, unambiguous, and useful answers to questions? Even going back to Delphi that has never been the case... why would anyone expect anything different of this one?

[Mike_the_Mystic]

Is the Oracle a jerk?

Do the snargsnafflers of ugturgath migrate to jaltor every sinsar?

[Trizap]

do birds fly?

[Assassin89]

My greatest wish is that someone knows how to negate the memory charm on the valley so that the Oracle cannot exploit others anymore.
For Delphi, some visions of the future were the end result of events that people were trying to avoid in the first place. see self fulfilling prophecy. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SelfFulfillingProphecy)

[Koshiro]

He mainly seems to be a jerk towards his clients.

What that means, I dunno,
He's from Germany? :smallwink:

Cheap quips against my own country aside: His first encounter with the OOTS involved him being dangled out of a window. He has a certain reason for jerkness towards them.

[evileeyore]

Has there ever been an oracle in any story, anywhere, who has actually given straight, unambiguous, and useful answers to questions? Even going back to Delphi that has never been the case... why would anyone expect anything different of this one?

Yes. The Oracle at Delphi in the Oedipus Saga told people very straight forward answers to their questions.

That they then attempt to thwart Fate was not the Oracle's fault.

[Ron Miel]

I think that The Oracle is manipulating events with the intention of bringing down Xykon. He went to a lot of trouble to set off Belkar's mark, setting up a village, and dying painfully, losing a level and XP when he was rezzed. Belkar's mark will be a major turning point in the story, which somehow helps to bring about the eventual victory. I say that he is not entirely a jerk.

[Morty]

I don't think he's a jerk to everyone. He was pretty polite to the guys who resurrected him.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0571.html

Maybe he's just speciesist, or maybe he knows something about the Order's future that makes him dislike them, or maybe he just really doesn't like them because Roy dangled him out of a window. I'm not sure which.

No smart person is a jerk towards people who bring him back from the dead on regular basis. That said, his attitude towards Order might come from speceism, especially if we remember the litany of insults when praying to Tiamat. And given humanoids' usual treatment of kobolds, it might be somewhat justified. Besides, Oracle is a jerk, sure, but nothing compared to Belkar, Xykon, Miko and sometimes Roy. So I see little point in this thread.

[Ladorak]

You know, technically, since he can see his own future he can't be a jerk, he can only be what he knows he's going to be. Sorta like an actor more than a real person, his lines are written for him, he just has to follow along

[Samurai Jill]

Is the Oracle a jerk?
Kinda. But volunteering useful information doesn't bring him any benefits, and reduces the likelihood that customers will come back for more. I mean, what's in it for him?

[Yukitsu]

The benefit is that those customers don't feel obligated to come back for more.

[TengYt]

The thing is, Roy dangled him out of a window and he knew that Belkar would kill him. I'm not surprised he acts like a jerk to the Order.

[Samurai Jill]

The benefit is that those customers don't feel obligated to come back for more.
I'm assuming that avarice is his motive here.

[Yukitsu]

I'm assuming that avarice is his motive here.

Seems he has enough money to get rid of troublesome customers, as opposed to trying to get repeat customers. He can afford ressurection spell services, a village, as many wands as he happens to need etc. I doubt money is a big problem for him.

[Samurai Jill]

Yes. That would be owing to the aforementioned avarice.

[PandaCthulhu]

Of course.

But only to adventurers, not to his fellow Kobolds.

Lets face it, if you were a Kobold, cursed with gift of prophecy, reduced to setting yourself up as an Oracle for adventuring parties because you have no other useful skills, then constantly plagued with adventurers who looks down upon you when they discover you are a Kobold, yet still expect you to help them...

...wouldn't you have a bit of a conflicting inferiority / superiority complex, due to feeling you are better than others but having them think they are better than you....

...and wouldn't that make you act like a jerk towards these no good two-bit adventurers who treat you that way?

Especially when they never like your advice, and tend to do things like dangle you out of a window (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0329.html), kill you (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0567.html) or even chew you up into tiny pieces (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0571.html)?

Plus, he is not always cryptic. Sometimes he does try to help, even when those asking are too stupid to take a hint. Although in this case (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0331.html) it may be he has a stake in the outcome - Xykon succeeding would be bad for everyone, the Oracle included. Perhaps it is part of his Oracular gift that he may not volunteer information that he is not directly asked, which is why he is so annoyed when Roy fails to ask the right question.

[Ulti]

Perhaps it is part of his Oracular gift that he may not volunteer information that he is not directly asked, which is why he is so annoyed when Roy fails to ask the right question.

If that was the case he wouldn't be able to schedule appointments with Clerics in the first place to rez him in the first place.

[Kish]

He can tell anyone anything, but only the things he says while standing in the beams and talking colorfully stay in their minds when they leave the Valley, unless they get banished.

[PandaCthulhu]

If that was the case he wouldn't be able to schedule appointments with Clerics in the first place to rez him in the first place.

Good point. So he chooses only to volunteer direct answers to the one question, even when it is in his own interest to behave differently? Ah well, despite being an Oracle fan, I have I have to concede the point: he is more of a jerk than can be reasonably justified by my previous arguments.

[[TS] Shadow]

Thinking back, the Oracle isn't COMPLETELY a jerk...
When Roy was asking his question to the Oracle, he tried to get Roy to realize that he was leaving out a gate because of the way his question was worded. I think that he would just let it slide if he was a 100% jerk.

[Warren Dew]

Has there ever been an oracle in any story, anywhere, who has actually given straight, unambiguous, and useful answers to questions?

"Girard's gate" and "Yes" are about as straight and unambiguous as it's possible to get. It's not the oracle's fault that people insist on asking questions which have no useful answer.

I think that's why he's a jerk: a lot of his customers are all idiots who can't make good use of his services. Add to that that he can get away with treating them like the idiots they are, and there you have it.

[Nerd-o-rama]

I think a better question is, "has there ever been an oracle anywhere who wasn't a complete jerk?"

The answer is no.

[Linkavitch]

I thought the Oracle being a jerk was kind of a given.

[Assassin89]

Originally I asked whether the Oracle was useless, but I changed the title. That over privileged Kolbold should encounter a death that results not from someone angered by a prediction, but from insults by the Oracle. What better way to teach that annoying Kolbold a lesson in respect than to give him death for being rude to another being. Better if said being is Tiamat disguised as a human

[Morty]

Originally I asked whether the Oracle was useless, but I changed the title. That over privileged Kolbold should encounter a death that results not from someone angered by a prediction, but from insults by the Oracle. What better way to teach that annoying Kolbold a lesson in respect than to give him death for being rude to another being. Better if said being is Tiamat disguised as a human

So you want him to die because he's not a nice guy? Say goodbye to at least 25% of human population, then.

[[TS] Shadow]

Only 25%? Try like 60.

[Assassin89]

So you want him to die because he's not a nice guy? Say goodbye to at least 25% of human population, then.

Although I would want a permanent death for the Oracle, a lesson in humility would work even better. Also the Oracle has planned resurrections. So death will not be that permanent.

[Anterean]

So you want him to die because he's not a nice guy? Say goodbye to at least 25% of human population, then.
Well it would solve the problems with over population....

[Spiky]

My greatest wish is that someone knows how to negate the memory charm on the valley so that the Oracle cannot exploit others anymore.


Roy knows how.


Shadow;5262224']Only 25%? Try like 60.

Only 60%? Try like 90.

(and the other 10 are newborns)

[Assassin89]

Roy knows how.

I mean someone living permanently disables the charm. Roy was a dismissed ghost who bypassed the charm (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0572.html)

[Eben]

I think a better question is, "has there ever been an oracle anywhere who wasn't a complete jerk?"

The answer is no.

http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2002-05-21

Not really a jerk.

[chiasaur11]

Must...Resist...Epic...Snark....
Since...Others...Do....It...so...much...better....

[randomnondescri]

Yes. Yes the Oracle is a jerk.
That said, I wouldn't have it any other way; Belkar's comeuppance is my favorite strip of the entire comic...

And as has been pointed out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famous_Oracular_Statements_from_Delphi
It's genre convention that oracles don't give straight answers.

[golentan]

I think this whole thread does more to showcase the prejudices of the OPer than successfully argue (as he said) that the oracle deserves death. The oracle's worst crimes have been acting snarky towards a group whose leader and second in command threatened him with death, and a third member actually killed him, and let's face it, the only reason Haley didn't loot his tower for everything he had was because it might have been booby trapped.

Making someone pay an agreed upon consequence for murder is hardly out of proportion to the situation the oracle was in. And let's face it, if you KNEW that someone would stab you in the lung, wouldn't you maybe get in some cheapshot insults against them and their companions?

Would you go out of your way to help someone who was willing to throw you off the top floor for answering a question as asked honestly? Especially if his brilliant plan to get your aid and cooperation was to insult a family member?

Jaded, yes. Irritable, definitely. But he's much better than you're giving him credit for.

[Spiky]

I mean someone living permanently disables the charm. Roy was a dismissed ghost who bypassed the charm (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0572.html)

??

If you don't like answers, don't ask questions. Or muse on them, as the case may be.

[Assassin89]

One reason I dislike the Oracle is that there is no foil for him. The arrogance and avarice of the oracle are his greatest attributes. I would like to see a oracle who received his powers from Bahamut after much training as a cleric and is kind to others so that the other oracle runs out of business. Great irony if the new oracle is another kolbold.
The truth is that I want to see the current Oracle learn humility to other beings besides lizardfolks.
I also see that the Oracle is greedy. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0330.html) This is the main reason I see him as a jerk. If the Oracle was willing to answer more than one question per person for a fixed price (The Oracle dismisses Belkar before he can get details) (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0331.html) , the oracle would not be hung out of a window (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0329.html) or killed by Belkar out of annoyance (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0567.html)