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View Full Version : What is the ECL of a party of commoners(and other NPC classes)?



kentma57
2008-11-08, 02:09 PM
I am thinking of running a game where all the players must start as commoners, their next 4 levels can be of any NPC class, finaly they can then start taking PC classes.
The begining of the game will mostly be about the players surviving their daily lives(aka: fighting off stray cats might be a major encounter).
Now a problem I am having is how do I measure their overal ECL? If I don't do it right they will all be killed instantly. Help.

Vortling
2008-11-08, 02:17 PM
What I've heard for npc classes is you should throw things at them that are approximately CR = character level - 2. You should probably make it -3 or -4 if they're all going to be commoners.

MeklorIlavator
2008-11-08, 03:04 PM
Remember that this is going to seriously gimp Skill Monkeys and casters. In fact, those classes will probably be unplayable before the first couple of actual PC levels.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-11-08, 03:05 PM
Remember that this is going to seriously gimp Skill Monkeys and casters. In fact, those classes will probably be unplayable before the first couple of actual PC levels.Adept and Expert are actually Monk-level. Not horrid.

kentma57
2008-11-08, 04:01 PM
Adept and Expert are actually Monk-level. Not horrid.

That was my thinking, and if you realy want to play a melee character the warrior.

TempusCCK
2008-11-08, 04:11 PM
The only difference between a warrior and a fighter mechanics. So what you're basically telling us is that you want to gimp your players, even though thematically, they'll be exactly the same throughout all of your campaign, however, their first few levels will be depressingly underpowered.

kentma57
2008-11-08, 04:16 PM
The only difference between a warrior and a fighter mechanics. So what you're basically telling us is that you want to gimp your players, even though thematically, they'll be exactly the same throughout all of your campaign, however, their first few levels will be depressingly underpowered.

This will be an online game, an experiment, I just want to try something different and I will be looking for people are who want to try it to(I assume you won't).

MeklorIlavator
2008-11-08, 04:16 PM
The problem for Skill monkeys is that the first level of commoner uses up the 1st level x4 bonus, so that they're behind on all the skills they need. As for casters, nothing stacks for caster levels, so they loose out on 5 levels of casting(sure, they do have spells from the adept list, buts it still horribly limited). True, casters do need a bit of a nerf, but this could make them useless.

kentma57
2008-11-08, 04:17 PM
The problem for Skill monkeys is that the first level of commoner uses up the 1st level x4 bonus, so that they're behind on all the skills they need. As for casters, nothing stacks for caster levels, so they loose out on 5 levels of casting(sure, they do have spells from the adept list, buts it still horribly limited). True, casters do need a bit of a nerf, but this could make them useless.

I am considering droping the 1 level of commoner requierment, I think it will be easier on them.

Talic
2008-11-08, 04:18 PM
Other classes could include expert. 1st level of expert gives very competitive skill points and selection.

Dairun Cates
2008-11-08, 04:18 PM
The only difference between a warrior and a fighter mechanics. So what you're basically telling us is that you want to gimp your players, even though thematically, they'll be exactly the same throughout all of your campaign, however, their first few levels will be depressingly underpowered.

The Commoner campaign is actually pretty common. I've seen it done a few times before. The GENERAL idea is to go from a bunch of peasants that can't beat a housecat to actual adventurers at some point. You get to roleplay the experience of being actual average joes to getting to be heroes, because, let's face it, the average peasant couldn't dream of taking on a 1st level anything.

As for the "thematically gimping" argument. You can make a ninja by just playing a rogue the right way in theory. Doesn't keep people from wanting a ninja class that's actually good. I mean, aren't barbarians and fighters just guys that hit things with swords? They're similar, but not entirely the same. The differences matter.

Irreverent Fool
2008-11-10, 11:11 PM
I wanted to play a commoner in a point-buy game with 18 charisma, max ranks in handle animal and a small pack of trained junkyard dogs. The plan was to eventually take the leadership feat.

My DM wouldn't let me. He thought I was up to something.
obnoxious
sig

Yahzi
2008-11-11, 12:30 AM
I started my last party as 0th level commoners, with 8's in every attribute.

It was a blast - a single goblin, armed with a stick and some rocks, was scary. :smallbiggrin:

But I didn't make them take NPC classes when they finally leveled.

mabriss lethe
2008-11-11, 12:50 AM
here's what I've toyed with and it worked pretty well though it had a few kinks here and there.

Start them as lvl 3 commoners. gives them just a little more survivability and gives you as the DM, more leeway with encounters. When they'd get half enough exp to gain a level, they can trade a level of commoner for a level of another NPC class. keep this pattern up until they're all lvl 3 non-commoner NPCs. then push the bracket up to level 5. at 5th level, they can begin retraining again as PC classes. (usually somewhat in keeping with the NPC class they took.)
It was a pretty fun campaign and everyone enjoyed themselves pretty thoroughly

Eldariel
2008-11-11, 12:56 AM
I'd just like to add that in addition to Expert and Adept, the Aristocrat could easily be a PC class - I mean, there's no "Mr. Cash"-class in the player-side and an Aristocrat is simply richer than anyone else (and continues to become more so if DM doesn't entirely forget the "benefactors" he's bound to have) - and D&D is a game where money can get anything.

Expert is a Factotum Redux and Adept is a rather powerful caster (although most of their power hinges on few specific spells, rather than the wide range Wizards/Sorcs, Clerics, Druids and Bards have to choose from). They'd make for a fine PC party.

Lert, A.
2008-11-11, 01:04 AM
Pretty sure that the Fatotum is an Expert Redux, since the Expert has been around... pretty much forever (OK since 3.0, close enough).

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2008-11-11, 01:08 AM
If you're going to force them to start in NPC classes, then I would strongly suggest letting them replace their NPC class levels with PC class levels when they level up. If you're going to make them go Commoner 4 before going into any PC classes, let them replace one Commoner level with another class at levels 5-8. That would make their characters at least playable in the later levels without completely screwing their XP gains and rate of level accumulation with useless Commoner levels.