Complete Arcane feat that gives you a 2nd level spell at 1st, what is name?

[Starbuck_II]

I don't have Complete Arcane and I'm trying to think of what it was called/prerequsites.


I know the feat isn't in Feat section: anyone remember name?

[MeklorIlavator]

I don't have Complete Arcane and I'm trying to think of what it was called/prerequsites.


I know the feat isn't in Feat section: anyone remember name?

Its called precocious apprentice, and its in the back of the book around page 181.

[Starbuck_II]

Its called precocious apprentice, and its in the back of the book around page 181.

Thanks: any Prereqs like only taking at like 1st?

[MeklorIlavator]

Thanks: any Prereqs like only taking at like 1st?

Yeah. Only 1st level and you need a decent primary casting stat.

[Magnor Criol]

Spellcasting ability (Int or Cha) 15, arcane caster level 1st.

Precocious Apprentice (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Precocious_Apprentice,all).

[Starbuck_II]

Thanks for the link, Magnor Criol.

Hmm, does spellcasting mean you are a spellcasting class or must havbe spellcasting at 1st?

Example, a Spellthif has spellcasting (he just can't use it at 1st unless it is a stolen spell). Does he qualify?

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Thanks for the link, Magnor Criol.

Hmm, does spellcasting mean you are a spellcasting class or must havbe spellcasting at 1st?

Example, a Spellthif has spellcasting (he just can't use it at 1st unless it is a stolen spell). Does he qualify?It's poorly worded. It means "The stat that you use to cast spells must be at least 15, and you need Arcane CL 1."

[Magnor Criol]

Yeah, it doesn't mean "Spellcasting ability (and) Int or Cha 15 (and) arcane CL 1st", unfortunately for spellthieves.

[Starbuck_II]

Yeah, it doesn't mean "Spellcasting ability (and) Int or Cha 15 (and) arcane CL 1st", unfortunately for spellthieves.

Hmm, darn, I got this good idea for a Spellthief/Warlock with Master Spelltheif (qualifying due to Apprentice), but guess it won't work if it means all three.

[only1doug]

Hmm, darn, I got this good idea for a Spellthief/Warlock with Master Spelltheif (qualifying due to Apprentice), but guess it won't work if it means all three.

There is also a frequent objection to using Precocious Apprentice as a prerequisite; most often the wording is "Ability to cast 2nd-level arcane spells (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Master_Spellthief,all)".

the Objection lies in the plural Spells where Precocious Apprentice only grants one (singular) spell.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

There is also a frequent objection to using Precocious Apprentice as a prerequisite; most often the wording is "Ability to cast 2nd-level arcane spells (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Master_Spellthief,all)".

the Objection lies in the plural Spells where Precocious Apprentice only grants one (singular) spell.Then the argument comes to whether a Sorc 4 or Wis 3 qualifies. The Wiz can only cast one spell per day and the Sorc only has one spell known.

[Fax Celestis]

Example, a Spellthif has spellcasting (he just can't use it at 1st unless it is a stolen spell). Does he qualify?

Spellthief's Steal Spell and similar abilities don't qualify you for anything--trust me, I've asked CustServ, and for once I'm glad they ruled the way they did. Otherwise, spellthieves would qualify for every prestige class or feat that requires arcane spellcasting, divine spellcasting, psionics, invocations, or some combination thereof without multiclassing.

[only1doug]

Then the argument comes to whether a Sorc 4 or Wis 3 qualifies. The Wiz can only cast one spell per day and the Sorc only has one spell known.

wiz 3 could have bonus slots from high stat or specialty and sorc 4 can definitely cast more than 1/day.

a non specialised wiz 3 with 12/13 intelligence hmmm, yes you could argue that they don't qualify due to only being able to cast one Level 2 spell / day.

I'd argue that anyone playing a 13 int wizard has enough problems that you shouldn't hinder them with semantics.

[Starbuck_II]

Spellthief's Steal Spell and similar abilities don't qualify you for anything--trust me, I've asked CustServ, and for once I'm glad they ruled the way they did.
Otherwise, spellthieves would qualify for every prestige class or feat that requires arcane spellcasting, divine spellcasting, psionics, invocations, or some combination thereof without multiclassing.

Would that be bad?

[Will_Shakespear]

Hi there,

there has been no official errata for this feat and i find this a disappointing fact. The designers did say that it cant be used to get into a prestige class needing the "Ability to cast 2nd level spells" thing. But thats no official ruling.
So by RAW a char can enter a prestige class at level 3 with taking the feat. If someone says that you dont fulfill the "...to cast 2nd level spells" thing, than this is true for every Wiz 3 with a low INT and 0 bonus spells and a SOR 4 with only one spell known. That a SOR 4 has at least 3 2nd lvl spells per day doesnt count here, IMHO, cause its the same single spell that can be cast several times.
The complete feat is poorly worded from top to bottom. Some players in the community say you can use it that way, other players and DMs say you cant. I think because of its bad wording and no errata, the DM has the final word here.
I would allow the use of this feat to get into a prestige class earlier (e.g. the Master Specialist).

Cheerio

Will

[jcsw]

You can cast more than one level two spell. You just take two days to do it.

:)

[Fax Celestis]

Would that be bad?

It would be horribly horribly broken.

[Starbuck_II]

It would be horribly horribly broken.

Can you give an example theoretically? I'm not seeing it. I know spell thieves are okay, but they aren't that badass.