Need assistance with questions from my game (AOO, alignment)

[aboyd]

I have some issues that have come up in my game today, and I'd like other DMs or rules lawyers to sound off with some verdicts.

First problem involves going against alignment. A good character expressed desire to engage in some shockingly cruel activity, which involved torturing someone into unconsciousness, then healing them, torturing them again, and so on. He tried to get group buy in, which didn't work, and they talked him out of most of it. However, the character was still able to use a dagger to carve a few "designs" into the captured enemy's face. The group made the concession on the grounds that "it'll heal." My take is, heal or not, having some carve up your face would hurt to the point of screaming, and still qualifies as torture.

The same good character got very upset with the party's ranger for triggering a trap when the ranger ran ahead. There was a small unarmed fight. The player expressed interest in killing the ranger before returning to town so that they all could keep the ranger's share of the loot. The party didn't agree to the killing part, but did convince the ranger to leave the group with no share of the loot.

I do not know how much "being talked out of expressed desires" counts when considering alignment shifts. Do I rule on the fact that the character wanted to kill an ally, or I do rule on the fact that the ranger left the party penniless but alive? How much does "carving my family's emblem into the hobgoblin's ugly face" count in this thinking?

If I mandate a small alignment shift (NG to CG) the character won't have much by way of consequences, which is OK. If I make a larger shift than that (I was entertaining NG to N), he will lose (for a while) a number of powers. I am OK with that too, but just wanted to have you guys factor that into your thinking.

For the second problem, it involves attacks of opportunity. I have a spiked chain fighter in the party. Because he threatens 10' out, with some feats he might get off two attacks of opportunity when someone runs up to fight him, or runs away. Maybe? How do you interpret the AOO rules for someone with 10' reach?

Oh! Also, does magical armor resize? I've never heard of that rule, but all my players were certain that +1 medium chain mail would magically size down to fit a gnome. I doubt it. Otherwise, everyone would always make tiny magical armor that uses the least amount of raw (expensive) materials, and have it size up to fit whoever needed it. It seems like an economy breaker. However, maybe the rule is nuanced. Anyone know where to find that rule?

[Sstoopidtallkid]

3 issues. First, alignment. That guy definitely sounds TN or CN to me, but depending on what abilities he'd lose(can you give us more info) there may be an in-game way to talk to him without an alignment shift. Second, the AoOs. They only provoke once per turn for leaving threatened squares, but if the char has Combat Reflexes, they can take multiple AoOs a turn, and really hurt enemies with it. Third, magic items resize, but Magic Arms and Armor do not. Not sure where the rule is, unfortunately.

[Lemur]

How long has the campaign been going on? If the campaign has been going on for a while and these breaches in conduct are relatively recent, the good character still has some leeway in keeping his alignment. He's slipping, but he hasn't started to fall yet. You can throw in some reminders in-game that certain behaviors are Not Good and that as matters stand, he's begun to tread a dangerous line. He hasn't done enough yet to warrant a full alignment shift, however.

However, if the campaign has only recently started, and the character has started to act this way more or less off the bat, you may want to talk with the player out of character about his choice of alignment. The player's expectations or understanding of alignment may be calibrated differently and you can set him straight on how you handle alignment in your game- after all, alignment is somewhat fuzzy and different people handle it differently. As the DM, if you think a certain action, such as cutting up a defenseless captive is an evil act, you should communicate this to your players just so there's no ambiguity. If the character doesn't change his act for the next session or two you can rule that he's actually nongood, and was already nongood to start the campaign- if you're feeling particularly magnanimous you can allow him to alter his character so it doesn't suffer too much from an alignment change.

And just for the record, NG to CG is not an appropriate shift either way- torture and the desire to kill an ally are not inherently chaotic and there's nothing else about his actions (that was mentioned) that's particularly chaotic. Neutral good to neutral is the appropriate shift, if one is called for.

Here's the relevant passage regarding AoO:


Combat Reflexes and Additional Attacks of Opportunity

If you have the Combat Reflexes feat you can add your Dexterity modifier to the number of attacks of opportunity you can make in a round. This feat does not let you make more than one attack for a given opportunity, but if the same opponent provokes two attacks of opportunity from you, you could make two separate attacks of opportunity (since each one represents a different opportunity). Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn’t count as more than one opportunity for that opponent. All these attacks are at your full normal attack bonus.

A creature moving through his threatened area will only provoke one Attack of Opportunity. However, he can attack multiple creatures moving through his threatened area (once each). Also, if a single creature performs several different actions in a round that provoke AoOs, he gets an attack for each one. So if a prone creature in his reach stands up, and then tries to move more than 5 feet in the round, the warrior will get two attacks.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

For the character with alignment issues, it really does depend on what abilities he risks losing. The first thing you do is warn him that his character's nongood actions are beginning to outweigh his good actions, and that his alignment may shift and what the consequences will be. If he's a member of a church or some other order, then after a few weeks in-game have them investigate his activities, and if necessary hold him accountable for his actions. There would probably be some sort of formal trial, with the ranger and hobgoblin testifying, and he would probably be demoted or required to atone for his actions. Depending on what else he's done he may be expelled from the order altogether and forever lose access to whatever alignment-dependent powers he has. For now, just let him know that his character's actions will have consequences. He may have created the character as a bastion of righteousness, but is playing the character as though he's a villain who was only pretending to be that.

Just to reiterate on AoOs: They provoke whenever they leave a threatened square. An opponent with only a 5' reach who charges him will leave the square 10' out from him and provoke an AoO, and may end up being tripped before it gets close enough to reach him, thus ruining its charge. An opponent who also has a 10' reach can charge up to him without provoking an AoO for moving, because they don't have to leave a threatened square to get within reach. An opponent who attempts to flee using the Retreat action only doesn't provoke AoOs for the square they started in; if they're right next to him and retreat, they enter and then leave a square 10' out from him and provoke as normal. A single movement taking a foe through multiple threatened squares only provokes one AoO.

[Will_Shakespear]

Hi there,

here is my input.

Alignment
I as a DM handle it that way. The players know, that certain actions will end in an alignment shift. I have a scale for every character, where the alignment progress is noted. Minor actions lead to a 1-3 point shift, major actions will gain the character a up to 6 point shift. If a character has reached his 10th point in any alignment direction, his alignment changes. Taking your example of torture: in my campaign the character would gain a 3 point shift for this action towards Neutral alignment, cause torture is definitely no "good" action. Killing a defeated and injured enemy will get a character a 6 point shift towards Neutral or Evil, as another example. The players never know where their characters are on their alignment scale. If they reach a certain alignment score, the alignment changes and I tell them.
Alignment in D&D is a tricky thing. Just let the players know how you handle it. And keep in mind, that actions define alignment and not alignment defines actions.

AoO
All has been said. A char with a spiked chain gets only one aoo against an enemy moving adjacent to him, cause moving counts as one action.

Resizing
I dont know where the official rules can be found atm. In my campaigns every magic item resizes to fit the new wearers size.

Cheerio

Will

[Curmudgeon]

Only magic garments resize themselves. Magic jewelry is generally not an issue for size (maybe you'd wear a giant's pinkie ring on your thumb instead). And nonworn magic items don't care about size. But magic armor and weapons are fixed to a particular size category and never change to fit:
Size And Magic Items

When an article of magic clothing or jewelry is discovered, most of the time size shouldn’t be an issue. Many magic garments are made to be easily adjustable, or they adjust themselves magically to the wearer. Size should not keep characters of various kinds from using magic items.

There may be rare exceptions, especially with racial specific items.

Armor and Weapon Sizes

Armor and weapons that are found at random have a 30% chance of being Small (01-30), a 60% chance of being Medium (31-90), and a 10% chance of being any other size (91-100).

[rayne_dragon]

Everybody else seems to have covered alignment and AoO, but I wanted to add something about armour resizing... I seem to remember that in 2nd edition it was assumed that magical armour resized itself to fit the wearer. However, with distinct size categories I've always assumed that the amour would only resize itself within that category. So one suit of armour fits the short and thin elvish wizard as equally well as the burly human warrior, but won't be able to reshape itself to fit the halfling.

[aboyd]

First, thank you all for chiming in with your opinions. It has been very helpful. Now to answer questions.


That guy definitely sounds TN or CN to me, but depending on what abilities he'd lose(can you give us more info) there may be an in-game way to talk to him without an alignment shift.
He's a dragon shaman. If I move him to true neutral, he not only loses his powers, but he also can't get them back (neutral is the only prohibited alignment for dragon shamans).

In fact, it would be nice if someone could explain what "loses all abilities granted by the dragon shaman class" means. I mean, are hit dice considered to be something granted by the dragon shaman class? Is it only class-exclusive features, such as auras and breath weapons? Is it bonus feats?


They only provoke once per turn for leaving threatened squares, but if the char has Combat Reflexes, they can take multiple AoOs a turn, and really hurt enemies with it.
OK. So if you have Combat Reflexes, you can take 2+ AOO... but still cannot get 2 AOO as someone enters or leaves squares, right? The leaving is all one action, even if it covers multiple squares, so only 1 AOO for that. But then if another enemy entered/left threatened squares, because of the Combat Reflexes, you could take your 2nd AOO. Is that right?

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Yes, that is the gist of it.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Hit Dice, BAB, Saves, Skills, weapon and armor proficiencies, and anything gained by virtue of being of a certain level such as feats and ability score points are never lost when you lose class features for violating a code of conduct. Everything else a class grants, such as anything on the "Special" line of the 20-level class table and anything to the right of it, is typically lost when a code of conduct is violated.

In some cases, only aspects of a required alignment are lost, such as a Lawful Barbarian losing only the ability to Rage. According to sidebar on page 18, "he immediately loses all abilities granted by the dragon shaman class and becomes an ex-dragon shaman." That would mean everything that could be lost, is lost. Hit dice, BAB, base saves, skill points and class skills (but not his totem-granted class skills), and weapon and armor proficiencies would be all he keeps.


Yes.

[Keld Denar]

Um, actually, if he has the feat Hold the Line, he's always treated as being set for a charge, which means he DOES in fact get 2 attacks, but only one is an AoO. The other is treated as a readied action, which is kind of funny. Its an ok feat, kind of circumstantial, but not terrible.