PDA

View Full Version : I'm a Chameleon! [One in Need of Some Help]



Xallace
2008-11-09, 12:50 PM
Hey hey! Ever been unable to decide on what character you wanted to play? I did! But then I decided, "Why should I decide on a character concept? Why should I play something I will get bored with three sessions in?" Now I'm playing a Chameleon from Races of Destiny (I knew that book had to be good for something).

But I need help. Are there any traps to watch out for in the class? Are there any tricks that could help me be more effective in general? Very importantly, what class is great to start off with?

I was thinking of starting as a Bard. First feats would be Able Learner (to meet requirements) and perhaps City Slicker (from Races of Destiny, retains some Bard skills that the Chameleon lacks). Later on, I was thinking of taking Improved Unarmed Strike (occasionally using my floating feat to pick up superior unarmed strike), Obtain familiar (Chameleon grants arcane spellcaster levels, so I figure it stacks), and also some general stuff like Improved Initiative and Combat Reflexes.

So could anyone give me a hand? I would very much appreciate it!

Whiplord
2008-11-09, 12:52 PM
I'd start here. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=360082)

Flickerdart
2008-11-09, 12:55 PM
Factotum will serve as the base class, I believe. Take Able Learner with it, and all skills are class skills for every level of anything you take again! It's even more universal than the Chameleon. If it's a thing, the Factotum does it well.

Jack_Simth
2008-11-09, 12:59 PM
A couple of things...

1) With Able Learner, the cross-class skill cost is 1-for-1, regardless. The skill cap is based on whether or not it's a class skill for any of your classes. You don't need to spend an extra feat to keep skills as class skills if you already have a level in a class that gives it.
2) Bard and Factotum are about the ideal classes to start with, for a Chameleon. There's a couple of reasons for this:
A) They have all the skills you need to get into Chameleon as class skills.
B) They both have a caster level, which you'll need if you want to use your floating feat for anything that requires a caster level (such as item creation feats) as your Focus for the day can't qualify you for anything, and your floating feat requires that you qualify for whatever you get.
3) Take Practiced Spellcaster (Your Entry Class), and Craft Rod. That lets you use the floating feat for a metamagic feat, letting you craft the Metamagic Rods without issue.
4) Oddly, Charisma is your least important stat, as almost nothing is based off of it.

mabriss lethe
2008-11-09, 01:10 PM
My favorite is to enter as a warlock. You can use that rotating bonus feat to pick up extra invocations.

In most builds, your earliest focus that you take on a daily basis will either be arcane or divine. (divine to start, since your spellbook will be woefully empty for arcane.)

Either way, make certain you pick up at least a few spell storing toys so that you can maintain a wide variety of options from both the arcane and divine sides of your chameleon magic. (best option is to do this with your better arcane spells, since you can cast them from an object without worrying about arcane spell failure from armor.) If you take chameleon far enough to get the abilities to choose two foci, generally take the combat one as your second. Of course, the best part of the chameleon is that you just use these as a generic default for you. If a special situation crops up, change to something more appropriate.

Xallace
2008-11-09, 01:24 PM
I'd start here. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=360082)

Thanks! I was looking for something like that.


Factotum will serve as the base class, I believe. Take Able Learner with it, and all skills are class skills for every level of anything you take again! It's even more universal than the Chameleon. If it's a thing, the Factotum does it well.

I heavily considered being a Factotum for this character. But I went with Bard, as I plan on playing a Factotum in another campaign. Wanna try something different. Thanks though.


A couple of things...

1) With Able Learner, the cross-class skill cost is 1-for-1, regardless. The skill cap is based on whether or not it's a class skill for any of your classes. You don't need to spend an extra feat to keep skills as class skills if you already have a level in a class that gives it.

Whoa whoa, emphasis mine. I do not remember that rule. Is that in the PHB? It's not under the description of the Able Learner feat that I'm reading.

EDIT: I see it now. Well, did not know that.


2) Bard and Factotum are about the ideal classes to start with, for a Chameleon. There's a couple of reasons for this:
A) They have all the skills you need to get into Chameleon as class skills.
B) They both have a caster level, which you'll need if you want to use your floating feat for anything that requires a caster level (such as item creation feats) as your Focus for the day can't qualify you for anything, and your floating feat requires that you qualify for whatever you get.

That's good to know.



3) Take Practiced Spellcaster (Your Entry Class), and Craft Rod. That lets you use the floating feat for a metamagic feat, letting you craft the Metamagic Rods without issue.

Ooh, also good to know.


4) Oddly, Charisma is your least important stat, as almost nothing is based off of it.

I'd noticed that. I'm putting my Charisma just high enough to use what Bard spells I have access to.


My favorite is to enter as a warlock. You can use that rotating bonus feat to pick up extra invocations.

That is a good idea that I had not considered.


In most builds, your earliest focus that you take on a daily basis will either be arcane or divine. (divine to start, since your spellbook will be woefully empty for arcane.)

True.


Either way, make certain you pick up at least a few spell storing toys so that you can maintain a wide variety of options from both the arcane and divine sides of your chameleon magic. (best option is to do this with your better arcane spells, since you can cast them from an object without worrying about arcane spell failure from armor.)
You mean like wands and such?


If you take chameleon far enough to get the abilities to choose two foci, generally take the combat one as your second. Of course, the best part of the chameleon is that you just use these as a generic default for you. If a special situation crops up, change to something more appropriate.

Noted.


Thanks everyone!

Lemur
2008-11-09, 03:13 PM
3 levels of bard will also let you take Extra Spell with your Chameleon bonus feat, which can be used to get virtually any and all spells you'd want put in your spellbook.

Flashlight
2008-11-09, 03:34 PM
Consider making yourself an actor bard and take a level in Master of Masks. Why? Have Fun (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5158609).

mabriss lethe
2008-11-09, 04:35 PM
You mean like wands and such?

No. I'm really talking about stuff like rings of spell storing and weapons with the spell storing enhancement, Purple ioun stone....

Darrin
2008-11-09, 11:38 PM
Consider making yourself an actor bard and take a level in Master of Masks. Why? Have Fun (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5158609).

Check that Haberdash thread for the information I posted on soulmelds. Any chameleon can gain Shape Soulmeld for a day and if your Con is high enough load up on all your available chakras with basic soulmelds.

BardicDuelist
2008-11-10, 01:21 AM
I'd still take a level dip into Factotum if you have the Int, however. The "I can use every skill" really helps (and is a good reason to have the Int). Ijatsu Focus, Truenaming, Autohypnosis, etc can all be fun to pick up for an extra "I can do anything" feel.

BobVosh
2008-11-10, 04:43 AM
Warlocks and Facts as noted.

One thing they didn't mention is that a high enough warlock can craft for spells they don't have, provided they have an item creation feat for it. So floating feat from cham is nice. Probably more warlock then you want though.

Tokiko Mima
2008-11-10, 03:37 PM
It's a completely cheesy way to abuse Magic of the Incarnum, but using Bonus Feat to pick up the various Shape Soulmeld (X) feats has an interesting side effect: Soulmelds don't unshape after 24 hours.. they last as long you don't unshape them, or until they're dispelled somehow. Given a week or so, a Chameleon could have a soulmeld in every possible body slot off any list.

Hzurr
2008-11-10, 03:51 PM
4) Oddly, Charisma is your least important stat, as almost nothing is based off of it.

...you walk on dangerous ground my friend.

No matter what class you are, Charisma is never a dump stat. Ever. Actually, I'll go ahead and say it: Charisma is the single most powerful stat in the game. If you're a chameleon, and you cannot lie your face off without batting an eye, you're doing it wrong!!

Sure, a wizard with maxed out int can kill all sorts of monsters, but a character with a high cha and the right skills can take over the world without ever putting yourself in harms way. That's what pesky minions are for.

FMArthur
2008-11-10, 05:09 PM
But everything you use Charisma for can be augmented by simply spending skill points.

Jack_Simth
2008-11-10, 08:14 PM
...you walk on dangerous ground my friend.

No matter what class you are, Charisma is never a dump stat. Ever. Actually, I'll go ahead and say it: Charisma is the single most powerful stat in the game. If you're a chameleon, and you cannot lie your face off without batting an eye, you're doing it wrong!!

Skill points handle that aspect quite well. A Chameleon needs some charisma, but is not a Charisma monster. A Chameleon, if you're going to play the class to the flavor, needs Int for arcane casting and skill points, Wis for Divine casting, Dex for AC and Roguishness, Str for being a melee brute, Con for HP and saves, and Charisma for... a small plus to some social skills that you're going to have max ranks in anyway, and the rare event that you replicate Smite.

Don't get me wrong - on a 36 point buy, take straight 14's. On a 32 point buy, the 10 goes in Charisma, and the rest are 14's. On a lower point buy, don't play a Chameleon.


Sure, a wizard with maxed out int can kill all sorts of monsters, but a character with a high cha and the right skills can take over the world without ever putting yourself in harms way. That's what pesky minions are for.Yeah, Diplomancers are kinda busted.

Hzurr
2008-11-11, 02:15 AM
*sigh* Silly people who automatically think I'm talking about min-maxing or things like that. All I'm saying is that a charasmatic character, with a player who knows how to use it, and a DM who gives a little bit of leeway, can take over the world. No multi-class dips, no spell abuse, just having an 18, and knowing how to use it.

Most "effective" build for combat? Nope. Most effective build for being awesome? Yes.