Dream or Illusion?

[Llaqus]

I know this is just speculation and highly unlikely but i can't seem to shake this feeling that Shojo is actually alive, and has been playing a trick on everyone. Here's how:

he is secretly an illusionist.

First he faked his resurrection failure with illusions in this strip http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0410.html

Then he started hiding out as a alleged cleric of Loki using illusions to mask his appearance.

and finally in this last comic he showed himself but in order to fool everyone including belkar he used an illusion to make belkar think he was a green line.

Not only is this just like something Shojo would do it also explains not only how he recognized the MoJ immediately but how he was going to cure it as well.

like i said this is all speculation and probably dead wrong but its at least fun to imagine.

[zach12376]

Dream, but nice therory

[Vemynal]

no it could be an illusion


cast by some chaotic good being that shojo talked into doing that for him up wherever the chaotic good go when they die

[Warlord JK]

This has some chance of being true, I mean, nobody in Azure City could recognize or remove the MoJ from Belkar, and there are bound to be higher level clerics in Azure City than Greysky, so how could this cleric do so.

[Liwen]

Highly unlikely. But illusions can do just about everything. It would be far easier for him to simply turn invisible and follow them that impersonating a cleric who had been serving loki for years in greysky city and knows just about everyone important. Or he could be Mr. Scruffy.

Nice idea.

If he's powerfull enough, he could even have tricked everyone from the moment of his "death" about just ANYTHING, making the castle "explode" and the rift enlarge slowly. He could have croaked Xykon and took over by impersonnating him. He could also simply be dead, and Belkar crazy.

[T-O-E]

Speculation.

The hallucination is built into the curse. Shojo is trying to redeem Belkar. Once Belkar admits the error of his ways, the curse will cease to function.

[derfenrirwolv]

I have to agree with Troll. Lets go through the possibilities


1) The cleric is really lord shojo back from the faked death

A) A cleric put his hand directly on shojo's body and tried to ressurect him. The cleric would have been able to tell that it was not an actualy body he was trying to cast the spell on

B) The cleric is still casting the sending spell.


2) Its all a product of belkars imagination

Theres no way belkar has the kind of insight "lord shojo" is showing


3) Mr Scruffy is lord shojo's phylactery/link to the material world

Nothing against it, theres nothing FOR it though.


4) Lord Shojo is part of the greater mark of justice

Offering someone a chance to redeem themselves after setting the mark off and seeing if they've learned their lesson is something shojo would do. He DID appear as a giant illusiory head when the spell was triggered the first time, he may appear bodily now that the curse is taking its full effect.

[Moriarty]

shojo is a lich!

he uses illusions to disguise his undead form (i totally stole that from anti-heroes) and mr scruffy carries his phylactery!

[Danukian]

I am thinking that the Shojo-dream was an effect of the MoJ

[Mina Kobold]

Pete knew the cleric for years so not so much

[Llaqus]

Ya, the new comic makes me think more and more its more the MoJ talking than anything else. However, if i were going to defend my theory against the pete knew the guy statement i could just say that he has been pretending to be the cleric on and off for years to sneak out of the castle, none of us know what has happened in these characters pasts. So basing your only evidence against the theory as an unknown variable is only going to make the theory more convoluted not impossible. But like i said at the beginning it looks more like the MoJ due to 606.

[evileeyore]

This has some chance of being true, I mean, nobody in Azure City could recognize or remove the MoJ from Belkar, and there are bound to be higher level clerics in Azure City than Greysky, so how could this cleric do so.

Where do you get the idea that no one in Azure City could remove it? Simply because no one in the Resistance could?

I'm sure all the powerful enough Clerics either died ont he walls defending the city or joined the refugee fleet. Besides, the Cleric most likely responsible for casting it was probably the guy who died to Redcloak in the Cleric Showdown Epic Battle Royale, No Expense Spared High Fidelity Extreme Effects Death Match of the Century..

[cheesecake]

I am in the school of thought that this is part of the course. They activate the curse, suffer. Then the curse gives them a chance to fix the wrongs of their life.

[evileeyore]

The only problem with that line of reasoning at all (The Dream is part of teh curse to steer Belkar into Goodness) is that his dream is comvincing him to only fake being a decent chap so he continue being an Evil little bastard when no one is looking.

We already know Belkar isn't stupid, nor niave, just a littel short-shighted most days. But he has his moments of inspiration, this is one of them.

[Llaqus]

who said the mark was put there to make him turn good? Shojo was the original person to put the curse on him, for all we know all Shojo is doing is making sure he plays his chaotic alignment right, and doesn't get killed in the process due to ticking his teammates off. Funny thing, he's supposed to "die" before the end of the year, but i wonder if that's a physical death or a metaphorical death. I suppose since he stated "last breath ever" that he means physical death, although the oracle isn't perfect, i mean he didn't look far enough ahead to see that roy wouldn't dangle him out a window and ended up giving him a free-b due to the fact he probably didn't have a resurrection on standby like he did with Belkar.

[maxon]

Ya, the new comic makes me think more and more its more the MoJ talking than anything else. However, if i were going to defend my theory against the pete knew the guy statement i could just say that he has been pretending to be the cleric on and off for years to sneak out of the castle, none of us know what has happened in these characters pasts. So basing your only evidence against the theory as an unknown variable is only going to make the theory more convoluted not impossible. But like i said at the beginning it looks more like the MoJ due to 606.

Sounds like an epileptic sapling if I ever heard one.

[bibliophile]

The nature of the vision is an interesting question. It could be a message implanted in the curse, a dream/hallucination or Lord Shojo speaking from beyond the grave. But here's my two cents; it doesn't matter. There is more than one reasonable explanation for it to exist. It's ultimately here because the Giant wants it to be. It's in-story explanation is ambiguous and probably irrelevant. Weather it's a part of the curse, a dream or something else doesn't matter because Belkar will pretend to change all the same.

[Llaqus]

Sounds like an epileptic sapling if I ever heard one.

A small tree going through seizures? i'm confused.

[David Argall]

No. Absolutely nonsense.

[Llaqus]

No. Absolutely nonsense.

Is that in response to the OP or is that supposed to be a translation of what the other poster was saying and i mistook it as a tree with seizures.

If its to the OP ya i kinda feel now that it no longer makes sense. before 606 was up though it made sense, but not now.

[WoodStock_PV]

You can actually see the face (and the rest of the body) of Belkar in a shady form in the back of the page of 606. It is a proof that this is only a dream in his sick sleepness.

[AceOfFools]

It does not seem out of character for Shojo's ghost to be giving Belkar this kind of advice from beyond the grave.

If only Roy was in the room...

Also, Epiletic trees (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EpilepticTrees).

And now you know...

[EyethatBinds]

Most ludicrous theory since the Trigak return threads.

[chiasaur11]

Most ludicrous theory since the Trigak return threads.

Of Course!

Shojo was Trigak ALL ALONG!

[Flame of Anor]

I think that it really is a dream. The illusion theory is possible--very unlikely, but slightly possible--but the "hallucination implanted in the curse which will remove it" theory doesn't hold water. If it were that, then why would it be telling him not to change his ways, but to pretend to?

[rayne_dragon]

I think it's telling him to pretend to mend his ways because Shojo knew that he wasn't going to convince Belkar to turn good. This way he may actually get Belkar to change, while Belkar thinks he hasn't changed since he's just 'pretending'. For instance if Belkar saves a commoner from a goblin trying to mug him, does it matter if Belkar is just doing it to convince the commoner he's good or if it's because Belkar is actually good? It would be a good act either way and as long as Belkar consistantly pretends to act good in this way, it's effectively the same as if he was good.

Of course, I don't expect Belkar to ever really be good. Chaotic Neutral at best, in an attempt to emulate his idol.

[Scion_of_Darkness]

Well its already been implied by Belkar's internal debate in strip 435 that the Mark of Justice might not be an ordinary Mark of Justice. Why shouldn't it also allow Belkar to use Speak with Dead as well? That way Shojo could act as Belkar's mentor in deception from beyond the grave, and possibly trigger the Mark's removal entirely. Honestly Rich Burlew doesn't care about the rules if they would interfere with a good story, so this is entirely possible.

[hamsterhuey]

So, how does this integrate with the Oracle's prophecy regarding Belkar? (Here) (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0572.html).

Is he just gherkin everyone's chain again?

Hmm... Or could we get some character development followed by instant death, al-la Belkar's experience with Wisdom here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0058.html).

Just idly wondering...