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View Full Version : Fighter/Monk multiclass: Wizard Killer? Or Forum Killer?



Ashdate
2008-11-11, 11:36 AM
Seriously guys, this indulging people who seriously/trollously ask why Monks/Fighters/etc. are worse than Wizards/Druids etc. has got to stop. At best, monk/fighter lovers are going to bring out terrible, inaccurate arguments that result in them declaring that they can't be wrong because they obviously have a different definition of the word "suck." No one needs that!

So for the love of <your favorite deity>, if someone starts one of these threads, and you really can't stop yourself from replying, I think you should make sure your post meets all the requirements of the following checklist:

1. Does my post completely fail to address the topic at hand? The best defence against the Fighter/Monk debate is to completely ignore it!

Don't address the topic at hand! Talk about your day. Is your cat doing something hilarious? People like cats more than Monks vs Wizards debates. Need to talk about gaming? Why not describe your favorite campaign? People would rather read that than talking about hypothetical monk builds. If battlefield doesn't favour you, change the battlefield!

For example:

Hai guyz, why do peeps say monkz suck? Wizards are totallly scrrewwed if a monk getz neer them!

The right response:

Is anyone playing the DQ4 remake? I'm on chapter 5 and aside from being a little lost, I'm having a great time! That tomb near Endor has provided me with some sweet, sweet levels thanks to all those Metal Babbles.

The wrong response:

I just spent 2 hours creating a spreadsheet detailing how, no matter what level the monk is, the wizard wins 99.2% of the time. You can download it HERE. It's 147 pages, but I'm sure by page 26 you'll get the general idea. THREAD WON.

That's all there is to it! With some practice, I'm sure you'll agree that it's a much better solution than... well haven't you seen what the alternative is?

- Eddie

p.s. If they get angry at you, remember that you're more mad at them than they are at you.

Telonius
2008-11-11, 11:43 AM
Well, there actually are some people who are new to the game (or the boards) that really don't know why they're terrible. They see how cool and shiny and sparkly the monk abilities are, or their best friend played an evocation specialist in the last three games so they have an unrealistic impression of what Wizards are capable of doing.

But I do agree, that the incessant posts are pretty tiresome. We could do with some sticky posts addressing the issue.

Gorbash
2008-11-11, 11:54 AM
Well, the best thing is actually to encourage people to use Search engine. If a Mod puts a sticky topic informing new users about it, I'm sure we'll have a smaller number of debates like that. OR, we could make a sticky topic with links to commonly debated/useful topics. TLN's Guide to Batman, one of 1243786 Batman vs. Wizards topics, etc etc. The best would be, of course, if people would do that on their own, but this is INTERNETZ after all, so you can't really expect that. Or, since nothing actually changes between one Monks vs Wizards threads (except some ridiculous ideas concerning partially charged wands), a Mod could just lock it, link the most recent topic and end the discussion right there.

Heliomance
2008-11-11, 11:56 AM
Don't forget to include a level of Ranger in your build, for your choice of Favoured Enemy (Common sense), Favoured Enemy (The English language) or Favoured Enemy (People's brains)

DrizztFan24
2008-11-11, 12:12 PM
If a Mod puts a sticky topic informing new users about it, I'm sure we'll have a smaller number of debates like that. OR, we could make a sticky topic with links to commonly debated/useful topics. TLN's Guide to Batman, one of 1243786 Batman vs. Wizards topics, etc etc.

That actually wouldn't be a bad idea. I realize that I am still a bit of a rookie around here, and I do see some common threads and guides pop up, but a sticky with links to the most common/intelligent ones isn't a bad idea. Maybe we could request a sticky and then submit guides to be added.
[/derail]

Tokiko Mima
2008-11-11, 12:14 PM
Seriously guys, this indulging people who seriously/trollously ask why Monks/Fighters/etc. are worse than Wizards/Druids etc. has got to stop. At best, monk/fighter lovers are going to bring out terrible, inaccurate arguments that result in them declaring that they can't be wrong because they obviously have a different definition of the word "suck." No one needs that!

So for the love of <your favorite deity>, if someone starts one of these threads, and you really can't stop yourself from replying, I think you should make sure your post meets all the requirements of the following checklist:

1. Does my post completely fail to address the topic at hand? The best defence against the Fighter/Monk debate is to completely ignore it!

Don't address the topic at hand! Talk about your day. Is your cat doing something hilarious? People like cats more than Monks vs Wizards debates. Need to talk about gaming? Why not describe your favorite campaign? People would rather read that than talking about hypothetical monk builds. If battlefield doesn't favour you, change the battlefield!

For example:


The right response:


The wrong response:

That's all there is to it! With some practice, I'm sure you'll agree that it's a much better solution than... well haven't you seen what the alternative is?

- Eddie

p.s. If they get angry at you, remember that you're more mad at them than they are at you.

I try to do this, really! Read my analysis on the recent monk thread of how cool pixie warlocks are. Darn pro-monk people always break my tangent with more useless monk stuff! :smallfurious:

Siegel
2008-11-11, 12:15 PM
*crys in pain and sorrow* :smallfrown:

HULK SMASH + MIND CRUSH this threat :smallfurious:

streakster
2008-11-11, 12:27 PM
I try to do this, really! Read my analysis on the recent monk thread of how cool pixie warlocks are. Darn pro-monk people always break my tangent with more useless monk stuff! :smallfurious:

I know! We never even got to Tibbit Warlocks!

Kurald Galain
2008-11-11, 12:50 PM
So, I've got this new recipe for chocolate cake, and it's really delicious! It contains raisins, and nuts, and unlike some cakes I could mention, it's not even a lie!

What? It was either this or bring up the elections again... :smallbiggrin:

theMycon
2008-11-11, 01:57 PM
To make my opinion on the class clear: Monks are just on the border of "bad" and "acceptable". They're lots of fun to play, which balances it out so long as no-one demands all characters be high-powered. They're only useless if you play them as a walking fist. However, they're not particularly good at anything.

To make my opinion on the argument clear-
Once you've said what you have to say, don't worry about the nitty gritty, get out while you can. If everyone is ignoring what everyone else says, why will explaining in great detail, over and over, make a difference? It'll just make the other side angrier.

That said...
------------------------

The reason the threads go on is The Inevitable Jerk, inflaming the base, thus snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

Usually, the first page is a question with normal, civil replies, and people explaining carefully and accurately why the monk is bad...

Then comes The Inevitable Jerk, attacking anyone who would deign to play a monk or even ask a question about them...

Then come theoretical problems a monk* could have if you specifically built and played them to be useless. Then comes the bandwagon who've never played or seen a monk but like to participate in pile-ons to pad their postcount, who end up giving blatantly wrong and self-contradictory reasons as gospel...

This makes the pro-monk folk defensive, who harp on those last myths & fallacies, then make unrelated responses to prove a monk is cool and wonderful...

...and it continues a downward spiral, out of control. And ends up a 50 page mess where 90% of the people feel like they have to act like The Inevitable Jerk just to make their point (because everyone is ignoring me and just shouting what they want to say! I should shout back louder!). And the reasonable repliers are lost (or duck out) and everyone else ends up banned.

To avoid the proper name, this can be explained away as a "Troll Moment".


*or almost any other class, just rarely as pervasive.

elliott20
2008-11-11, 09:16 PM
Hey guys, I found this dead horse lying on the side of the road. I thought we could all grab some bats and go wail on it for a while.

Roland St. Jude
2008-11-11, 09:17 PM
Sheriff of Moddingham: Please discuss the content of threads in those threads and don't carry your external baggage from one thread to the next. Also, please don't open a thread just to discuss other threads. Finally, telling others how to post or what to post is generally frowned upon as vigilante modding. As long as the topic and manner of discussion is within the Forum Rules it's allowed.