Is Belkars death a Metaphor?

[Kranden]

I think that the prediction of Belkar's death is actually a metaphor for the rebirth of his character and greater understanding of how to blend into society, but still be an ass and do what he loves. Belkar as we know it is dead, but a new improved Belkar will be back on the streets sticking his daggers into people, but doing it more discreetly :smallyuk:

Discuss

[HamsterOfTheGod]

I think that Belkar dying is actually a metaphor

I never metaphor I didn't like :smallsmile:

[Kish]

The Oracle has been overly literal ("In his throne room"), but obscurely metaphorical? I'm afraid I think you're grasping at straws. Belkar's a goner, no loopholes.

[Kranden]

Also we know for a fact that the Oracle is a jerk and doesn't exactly have any love for the order of the stick, he does love to twist prophecies.

And if he is going to die, why all the character development right before his death? Seems kinda pointless don't you think?

[Istari]

Maybe Bealker will draw his last breath before his name changes and then contine living, hmmmmmm

[Kish]

he does love to twist prophecies.

He does? I can't think of any prophecy he's twisted. Haley getting her speech back...which of two gates Xykon will be near...the name of the sorcerer who killed Fyron...Belkar killing him. None twisted.

[Kranden]

Roy had to "Assist" the oracle in giving him a better prophecy the first time if you remember :P

And Roy went out of his way to make sure the Oracle couldn't twist the prophecy the second time and ended up getting it twisted anyhow.

And before Belkars prophecy came true he tried to suggest that Belkar killed other people which was not the real prophecy.

[Kish]

Roy had to "Assist" the oracle in giving him a better prophecy the first time if you remember :P

But the first one wasn't twisted, just obnoxious.


And Roy went out of his way to make sure the Oracle couldn't twist the prophecy and ended up getting it twisted anyhow.
Uh...

You're suggesting the Oracle somehow manipulated Roy into being sufficiently paranoid to ask a question the Oracle couldn't answer with the information the Oracle manifestly wanted to give Roy? I stand corrected--you're not grasping at straws, you're grasping at mist. :smalltongue:

[Warlord JK]

Basically, we have the barest of foreshadowing when it comes to the Oracle, we will never know exactly what will happen until it happens. Of course, this forum loves overanalyzing and other such things, so plz continue :smallbiggrin:.

[Haven]

Belkar's definitely a goner, eventually. Time in webcomics being what it is, though, there's no reason we can't get hundreds more strips with character-development!Belkar.

I think the best way for this to go would be if Belkar is on a really obvious arc of advancement, but his death occurs at an anticlimactic part of that arc. Like if this conversation ends by setting up Belkar on an arc from "pretends to respect others" to "actually deeply cares for others", he'll sincerely tell V "I'm sorry you missed your chance at ultimate arcane power, I know how important it is to you," and it'll be a big deal because he's never said anything like that before and meant it, and it's the very first sign that he's starting to care about other people, then Xykon disintegrates him in the following battle or something.

Except pulled off better than that, because as the Giant has shown us many times (especially recently (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0595.html)) he is a master at subverting dramatic arcs. And playing them 100% straight, too, but you have to be able to do that first. It's a prerequisite, if you like.

[Melaina]

Prophecy is a messy business. Metaphors are quite common. The death metaphor suggested here is actually plausible in my eyes, mainly because I see several sides of me as dead.

[Warlord JK]

Belkar's definitely a goner, eventually. Time in webcomics being what it is, though, there's no reason we can't get hundreds more strips with character-development!Belkar.

I think the best way for this to go would be if Belkar is on a really obvious arc of advancement, but his death occurs at an anticlimactic part of that arc. Like if this conversation ends by setting up Belkar on an arc from "pretends to respect others" to "actually deeply cares for others", he'll sincerely tell V "I'm sorry you missed your chance at ultimate arcane power, I know how important it is to you," and it'll be a big deal because he's never said anything like that before and meant it, and it's the very first sign that he's starting to care about other people, then Xykon disintegrates him in the following battle or something.

Except pulled off better than that, because as the Giant has shown us many times (especially recently (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0595.html)) he is a master at subverting dramatic arcs. And playing them 100% straight, too, but you have to be able to do that first. It's a prerequisite, if you like.

Very plausible idea, but I would hope Belkar could be rezzed :smallbiggrin:.

[gibbedman]

"the halfling shouldn't bother funding his IRA"
"he should savor his next birthday cake. 'Nuff said."
"your pal isn't long for this world"
"Belkar will draw his last breath-ever-before the end of the year"

The Oracle is a neat little device by which the Giant can play with the notions of predestination and prophecy as they relate to old tropes and the subversion of them. The Oracle is, by definition, 100% accurate, not only when he's making "official" predictions, but when he's just mouthing off, too. That's why he has the memory charm.
The above statements don't jive with Belkar's death as a metaphor. People who have had (or faked) character development still get birthday cake and IRA money. People who are dead don't. Unlike the cryptic "one question and one question only" statements, the Oracle has flatly repeated his message that Belkar will die, and done so in a variety of ways, so as not to be misinterpreted.

We can talk about how much we loved or hated the little scamp, but I would feel cheated if Belkar's death were anything less than complete (though his presence in flashbacks or as a Eugene-Greenhilt-style ghost would be cool and a lot of fun). Time will tell, but if the Oracle is to be believed at all about his predictions, he will have to have been right about this one.

[Samurai Jill]

Is Belkars death a Metaphor?
Cripes, sometimes these topics crack me up.

[Scion_of_Darkness]

Well, the Oracle never explicitly said that Belkar would die, thus there is a lot of room for twisting meanings. However the statements about not funding an IRA and drawing his last breath are hard to reinterpret.

[Kranden]

So what do you think after seeing the last two strips? Seems like Belkar is their last chance of survival.

And the passcode.

Evolve or Die

[RebelRogue]

Rich uses... sarcasm. He knows all the tricks, dramatic irony, metaphor, pathos, puns, parody, litotes and... satire. He is vicious!

On a more serious level: no, I don't think so.

[Kaytara]

Actually.... The fact that the Oracle has usually been rather direct is precisely the reason I agree he may mean something else. Take a look at the different ways he's phrased his predictions about Belkar.
"He should savour his next birthday cake."
"He shouldn't bother funding his IRA."
"The halfling will draw his last breath - ever - before the end of this year."
"Belkar isn't long for this world."
YES, those are all not-so-subtle hints at Belkar dying, things usually associated with death, but NOWHERE does it even say the word 'die'. My point is, if the otherwise blunt and direct Oracle didn't just say "Belkar will die and never be raised," it probably means that it wasn't applicable.

[Hydro Globus]

Okay, show me one other way to interpret these four predictions.

[JBento]

I suggest reincarnation, or being raised as an undead.

"He should savor his next birthday cake" - perhaps whatever he becomes has no sense of taste?
"He shouldn't bother funding his IRA" - I'm not american, english or associated country, so I don't know what this is... something like a pension fund? Do undead collect?
"The halfling will draw his last breath ever before the end of thsi year" - this is the crux for me. It means Belkster isn't being rezzed (cause its his last breath ever, but he may get something else - and won't be a halfling anymore
"Belkar isn't long for this world" complicates things a bit... perhaps he becomes a ghost? Ghosts are on the ethereal plane (which, I suppose is technically another world). Alternatively, upon reincarnation/undeadification, he will assume a new name

What y'all think?

[Hydro Globus]

I think the last part means that even if he becomes a ghost, he won't come back down (up?) like Roy. So, I think, bye-bye, Belkster.

[Paramour Pink]

I don't post in this part of the forum often, and even I know this idea of "his personalty is dead, and now he's a new Belkar" has been thrown around a few times. Overall, I really hope it isn't.

I like Belkar. Oddly, I like him even more since the very last comic with him. But I think it would be pretty poor if what the topic says is true (it's such an obvious answer, and expected copout).

Now that I've read the posts that gather all the quotes about him, though, at best I'm getting the ridiculous idea of King Belkar (kings don't have to pay the IRA, do they? :smalltongue: ), or more likely, him becoming undead of some sort (another idea that I've seen in these topics).

[Taekwondodo]

I think that the prediction of Belkar's death is actually a metaphor for the rebirth of his character and greater understanding of how to blend into society, but still be an ass and do what he loves. Belkar as we know it is dead, but a new improved Belkar will be back on the streets sticking his daggers into people, but doing it more discreetly :smallyuk:

Discuss

No, as other posts have mentioned the oracle says "The halfling will draw his last breath - ever - before the end of this year." i.e. he is actually going to die. whether or not this prophecy allows resurrection I'm not sure but he is LITERALLY going to die.

[Hydro Globus]

Well, that "- ever" pretty much means Resurrection is out of question. I think.

But... I just got the idea while typing this post: Maybe the Snarl will undo this world, then Belkar will be some sort of undead in the next one?

[MReav]

No. Belkar is going to die, and not need retirement funds at any point. At most this means he's coming back in some mindless form (undead, construct, or mindless outsider), at worst he's not coming back ever (Snarl).

[Scion_of_Darkness]

I think its more likely for Belkar to get killed by the Snarl somehow. Resurrection won't even work for him then as the Snarl destroys your soul too.

Edit: Damn, ninjaed.

[Jahkaivah]

Remember when people had theorise about Belkar's last prophecy? Remember Rich's response to them? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0567.html)

I imagine this wont be much different.

Ok to be fair it wouldn't be too different from Star Wars:

"when I said Darth Vader killed your father, what I really meant was that your father became Darth Vader"

"So you lied..."

"No No No! I was a metaphor! The concept of Darth Vader killed the concept of your father when he joined the dark side of the force!"

".... so you lied..."

"NO I DIDN'T!"

But that was stupid as well, and I would like to think Rich Burlew is Genre Savvy enough to subvert it or come up with something better.

[Zeful]

No, as other posts have mentioned the oracle says "The halfling will draw his last breath - ever - before the end of this year." i.e. he is actually going to die. whether or not this prophecy allows resurrection I'm not sure but he is LITERALLY going to die.

The prophicey doesn't allow for resurrection. It does, however, allow for reincarnation. He could be ressed as something other than a halfling.

[Vagnarok]

After all this is over, I just hope that Belkar's awesome contrast stays in the strip. I can't imagine what life would be like with out him in the order. It would be so boring and straightforward without having Belkar mess everything up once and awhile. Yeah yeah, I know somebody is going to say "but Belkar is boring and straightforward!" now, but they can shut it. Every character in this strip has a personality, and those personalities make them predictable. Belkar is just as predictable as everyone else on the strip, so before you complain about him just being evil and wanting to kill things, stop and think:
Has anyone else ever stopped being good and wanting to save the universe?

[Fish]

The prophicey doesn't allow for resurrection.
Why doesn't it? Belkar was prophesied to cause the death of the Oracle, but the Oracle isn't dead. The Oracle was temporarily dead.

Personally, I think Belkar's gonna get killed, but I think the quoted statement isn't 100% guaranteed.

[Hydro Globus]

Because Belkar "is not long for this world".

[Zeful]

"The halfling will draw his last breath, ever, before the end of the year."

The "ever" discludes all but reincarnation.

And Belkar asked will he "cause the death of" and listed people. Causing a death, and drawing one's last breath ever are two very, very different things.

[Faramir]

Well, while I agree that the Oracle's statements would require some pretty big wriggling to avoid them meaning Belkar's death, there's one very simple way around them. He lied. It wasn't a paid for prophecy and he just wanted to say something to annoy a bunch of humans he didn't especially like. Totally in character. I'm not saying this is what happened, but it's an out that requires no contortions of suspension of disbelief whatsoever.

Anyway, I look forward to finding out what really happens.

[hamishspence]

He also said it "to the camera" Suppose he could be lying to us as well as the Order, but seems a little unnecessary.

[El_Chupachichis]

Could Belkar's "Death" be a singularity that the Oracle cannot see past?

I could imagine him being attacked by the Snarl, and the Oracle, being unable to see past that attack, assumes him dead and gone after seeing the future of others in close "proximity" at the time of the attack, while failing to "look" for him past that time.

Or, he could achieve some sort of immortality without death, where material possessions and birthdates become trivialized or non-sequitur.

[Hydro Globus]

It would be a good idea - except there is the memory charm. So that annoying didn't last too long...

[Hydro Globus]

Could Belkar's "Death" be a singularity that the Oracle cannot see past?

I could imagine him being attacked by the Snarl, and the Oracle, being unable to see past that attack, assumes him dead and gone after seeing the future of others in close "proximity" at the time of the attack, while failing to "look" for him past that time.

Didn't you read too much Dune?

(Of course I know that is impossible, still...)

[Ryuka Tana]

"First of all, undead is a perfect example of something that fulfills all the things the oracle said, since they don't breathe, and I can't imagine they need any kind of retirement, and couldn't taste a birthday cake. Though the one thing that is really unambiguous was the breath thing, and lots of creatures lack the need to breathe."

[El_Chupachichis]

Didn't you read too much Dune?

(Of course I know that is impossible, still...)

Actually, I was thinking of the Author of True Names, Vernor Vinge.

I expect any sort of prophecy has to assume that the prediction make sense. If the Oracle sees something beyond what can be comprehended, he may have to "guess" as to an interpretation of what he sees.

Just playing with the idea, what if contact with the Snarl causes true death among most, but some are actually transcended into some form more amenable to the Snarl? Or, what if the Snarl "takes prisoners" to analyze instead of outright obliterating them?

Again, just playing with the idea.

[Kish]

"First of all, undead is a perfect example of something that fulfills all the things the oracle said, since they don't breathe, and I can't imagine they need any kind of retirement, and couldn't taste a birthday cake.
However, they are in the world.

[David Argall]

Belkar is also "not long for this world" and the Oracle wants to have his fun while he can [suggesting he is not going to see Belkar again]. So merely being undead is not enough.

[El_Chupachichis]

However, they are in the world.

Kinda begs the question:

In a world where death is bidirectional -- where resurrection is possible, especially into forms such as undead, liches, golems, what have you -- what does that phrase mean, anyway?

If it's possible to resurrect some characters, and possibly even somewhat trivial, given enough funds, would the phrase, "Not long for this world" have any meaning with permanence?

[El_Chupachichis]

Oh, and are the authors Course of Empire fans, perchance?

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=27169320&albumID=92344&imageID=1353806

EDIT: Grrr posted in wrong Topic. I suck.

[hamishspence]

running into a sphere of annihilation (only a deity can bring you back) or The Snarl (nothing can bring you back)

[TengYt]

Belkar getting consumed by the Snarl is another possibility.

[hamishspence]

in epic handbook there was a magical cloak- spread it over corpse and speak a command word, and nothing, not even greater gods, can bring person back. Owned by the head of the Assassin's Guild Of Guilds- the best assassins in the multiverse- The Garrote.

[Trazoi]

Well, while I agree that the Oracle's statements would require some pretty big wriggling to avoid them meaning Belkar's death, there's one very simple way around them. He lied. It wasn't a paid for prophecy and he just wanted to say something to annoy a bunch of humans he didn't especially like. Totally in character. I'm not saying this is what happened, but it's an out that requires no contortions of suspension of disbelief whatsoever.
I don't think the Oracle lying is plausible. He made great pains to say those lines "on the record". I was under the impression that when the Oracle is in a trace he can't lie - he has to speak prophetic truth. And if the Oracle could lie in a prophecy, it would be extremely bad business practice. No one values an unreliable Oracle.

I took that sequence to say, unequivocally, that Belkar will permanently die sometime in the life of the comic. It is possible to twist the words - maybe Belkar will become undead, or possibly even divine. But I'm strongly leaning on Belkar snuffing it, even if it is at the very end of the comic.

[El_Chupachichis]

I think the main problem here is the fact that Shojo's conversation implies that Belkar has quite some character growth to develop, but -- even though we have no specific idea as to how much longer OOTS's "year" will last -- it seems that Belkar's death will occur soon. So we have one of 3 major possibilities:

1. Belkar does die soon, in terms of comic strips, and the Shojo conversation will lead many readers unsatisfied
2. The OOTS "year" is actually quite far from ending
3. Belkar's death is somehow metaphorical and/or yet another loophole in the Oracle's predictions allows him to "exist" in some form that manages to still allow him to not exist as he's known now

My bet is on #2, even though it would be interesting to see the storyline somehow manage to pull off #3 while avoiding cliches or other cheap tricks.

[nleseul]

Okay. Here's something to consider.

We can categorize the Oracle's four predictions relating to Belkar's death as either time-limited, or not. The former category includes the "last breath" and the "birthday cake" predictions; the latter includes the "IRA" and "not long for this world" predictions.

Given this, it makes some sense to consider two separate questions: Will Belkar die at some point before the end of the comic, and will he die before the end of the current in-comic year?

We have no idea how long the comic will last in in-world time, but the general assumption seems to be that if Belkar has to die before the end of the year, he will die very soon, well before the climax of the comic.

I think it's noteworthy, though, that the two "time-limited" predictions are the ones that can most easily be interpreted to mean something other than Belkar's actual death. If he finds some kind of magical item that lets him survive without eating or breathing, those predictions are fulfilled, leaving the others still open, but without putting a hard limit on the duration of Belkar's remaining life.

In fact, I can see Belkar (after having been informed of the prophecy by Roy) finding that item, and doing a "Ha! In your face, lizard-boy!" dance upon believing he has averted the prophecy. Much later, at the end of the comic, Belkar has become so confident in his survival, having seemingly averted the Oracle's prophecy, that he takes an enormous risk to ensure the survival of the party, and dies due to his confidence in his invincibility.

[hamishspence]

But which Year, the Southern one or the Northern one? :smallbiggrin:

[Hydro Globus]

Western. The Oracle is a servant of Tiamat.

[JT Jag]

The oracle in particular said "the halfling will draw his last breath"...

So he could still be Polymorphed or something!

[hamishspence]

Residing in the South though- western continent is across the sea.

Also, given Tiamat text- she might be a Monster Deity like the monster that looked like Surtur could be (way back in ThorPrayer strip) rather than a true Western Deity.

I don't know its Surtur, but its rather bigger than a fire giant.

EDIT: have checked SoD- Tiamat text matches other Western gods. Maybe it was just special Prophesyspeak text.

[Kish]

If it's possible to resurrect some characters, and possibly even somewhat trivial, given enough funds, would the phrase, "Not long for this world" have any meaning with permanence?
That's rather like saying, "In a world where limbs can be regenerated, would the phrase 'he'll spend the rest of his life with one arm' have any meaning with permanence?" The existence of resurrection doesn't imply automatic resurrection. Shojo was not long for the world when he first appeared in the strip.


The oracle in particular said "the halfling will draw his last breath"...

Really? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0572.html)

[Hydro Globus]

Residing in the South though- western continent is across the sea.

Also, given Tiamat text- she might be a Monster Deity like the monster that looked like Surtur could be (way back in ThorPrayer strip) rather than a true Western Deity.

I don't know its Surtur, but its rather bigger than a fire giant.

EDIT: have checked SoD- Tiamat text matches other Western gods. Maybe it was just special Prophesyspeak text.

Look at the Crayons of Time. Tiamat is identified as a Western god before monster deities are elevated.

[Gez]

Discuss

It would be a very disappointing weaseling if some Obiwanesque "from a certain point of view" reason was pulled out of a hat to save Belkar from his predetermined fate.

That Belkar will die has been told by the Oracle twice already:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0329.html
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0572.html

This repetition wouldn't happen if it wasn't important.

[Hydro Globus]

The oracle in particular said "the halfling will draw his last breath"...
Really? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0572.html)

So that's why I couldn't remember that...

[hamishspence]

Tiamats role in D&D depends on setting- usually she's a Dragon god primarily, rather than a Sumerian/Babylonian one.

Dragons of Faerun clarifies that while she may be associated with Unther, she's been active in Faerun much longer than the Untheric deities have been there.

By monster deity I didn't mean Ascended Monster, but Deity Of Monsters, that doesn't really fit in with pantheon.

However, I suspect for OOTS, "Babylonian" comes first, and the D&D-ishness of her, only second.

[Hydro Globus]

Ah... I thought in Stickverse they are the same based on that the only gods present when making the world are the Northern, Southern, Eastern and Western pantheons...

[hamishspence]

Problem is, kobolds- her main humanoid worshippers, didn't appear till second world (SoD)

still, she could have been done as Babylonian first, to go with others (the female western deity's crown looks reminicent of Ishtar)

[Karaswanton]

Undead don't breathe.
And "extraplanar" beings aren't "in this world."
Outsiders also don't need to breathe and aren't in this world either.
Presumably Outsiders nor extraplanar undead have any interest in birthday cake, nor do they have IRA's.

[Hydro Globus]

Fine. But unless the entire party gets extraplanar (which I doubt), Belkar will be as good as gone...

[TengYt]

Today's strip confirms that it is a Metaphor...FOR AWESOMENESS!!!



Sorry, I'll be leaving now. Carry on!

[hamishspence]

Check MM: Outsiders do need to breathe (but not eat or sleep, unless Native) Elementals, however, do not.

[Zeful]

That's rather like saying, "In a world where limbs can be regenerated, would the phrase 'he'll spend the rest of his life with one arm' have any meaning with permanence?" The existence of resurrection doesn't imply automatic resurrection. Shojo was not long for the world when he first appeared in the strip.


Really? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0572.html)

So Belkar isn't getting reincarnated. Good to know.

[Kaihaku]

I never metaphor I didn't like?

[zillion ninjas]

"He shouldn't bother funding his IRA" - I'm not american, english or associated country, so I don't know what this is... something like a pension fund? Do undead collect?

I didn't see anyone answer this yet, so here's the short version. An "Individual Retirement Account" is a way to save and invest for retirement, with special tax benefits. It's like a self-funded pension. The obvious implication of the prophecy is that Belkar won't later be able to withdraw any funds he might deposit now.

Whether an undead person could withdraw money from an IRA that was funded by their pre-undead self is a much harder question. :smallconfused:

Oh, and Belkar's death is not a metaphor. It's a simile. Those are the ones that grow upward from the floor of the cave. :smalltongue:

[Gez]

I never metaphor I didn't like?

If you're asking about the second post in that thread, it's a pun. "I never met a phor I didn't like."

If you're making that pun yourself, sorry. :smallsmile:

[starburst98]

what about the off chance the oracle was wrong? unless EVERYTHING has been preordained from the get-go, freewill can defy fate, what if the oracle saw that in 99.99(repeating)% of the futures belkar does not get character growth and dies and so, this one future, out of all the futures that could have been he grows as a person (at least, it seems that way) which the oracle thought would NEVER happen.

[Zeful]

That's the thing about Oracles in fiction, they're never wrong. Have you heard of Oedipus? His mom got pregnant by Zeus, and he got shipped away because he was prophesied to kill his dad. Later he does exactly that.

Besides, when has the kobold Oracle ever been wrong?

[DreadSpoon]

In general with fantasy literature, if prophecy is meant to have a chance to be wrong, the prophecy states that fact. The prophecy would be "Belkar will draw his last breath unless he realizes his true self" or some such, not "he's gonna be pushin' up daisies, end of story."

[eras10]

I think the odds are about 50/50 that Belkar will die in the next 10 strips in which he is in. Maybe even five. I think the odds of him surviving his upcoming boss fight would be no better than even in the "real world", and quite possibly not even that good. Bozzok almost one-hitted Haley - him and Crystal tag-teaming would possibly get the best of even Roy.

The cleric, in theory, might even things up a little - if he can last two rounds, or doesn't flake out. Nothing like a sure thing.

I'm sure that Rich is creative enough to come up with a way for Belkar to pull this out, but I'm not sure he wants to. To give Belkar his big insight and then kill him almost immediately would be painful, but potentially superb work. Real life is often like that. Meaning, grossly unfair and arbitrary.

[Lord Vukodlak]

He will draw his last breath before the year is up. Reincarnation doesn't save him as he'd still be breathing.

I think he's going to die, just as the story will have a happy ending for Elan at least.(where does that leave Haley?).

Imagine for a moment xxx strips down the line, Xylon has been destroyed, his phylactery lies shattered beside Red Cloak's lifeless body. The threat of Snarl is over and the mission of the Order of the Stick has ended. If Belkar had died during that final battle do you really think ANY of them would bother to raise the evil SOB?

But really when I think he'll die at the end of the "campaign" Not 10 strips down the line. The Oracle said before the year is up. But then broke the 4th wall to say not real year.

[Ramidel]

There are a million ways to screw with the prophecy. Changing one's name after a polymorph is cheating...

...which Shojo just told Belkar to do. We know that Belkar is pretty genre savvy; if he learns about the prophecy, he'll twist himself into knots to figure out some hax around it. Reincarnate as Balker, become a demon or slaad, read Promethean the Created, hold his breath for years, whatever.

That doesn't mean he'll do it, but it means that he can. It might be more dramatic to let him die, it might be more dramatic for him to evolve to a point where the prophecy doesn't apply.

In short, Rich is going to either play the trope straight or subvert it somehow. That's an Oracular prediction for you.

Also, on the subject of the birthday cake prophecy: the cake is a lie. You should always savor birthday cake, that doesn't say a thing about the future.

[Ramidel]

He will draw his last breath before the year is up. Reincarnation doesn't save him as he'd still be breathing.

I think he's going to die, just as the story will have a happy ending for Elan at least.(where does that leave Haley?).

Imagine for a moment xxx strips down the line, Xylon has been destroyed, his phylactery lies shattered beside Red Cloak's lifeless body. The threat of Snarl is over and the mission of the Order of the Stick has ended. If Belkar had died during that final battle do you really think ANY of them would bother to raise the evil SOB?

But really when I think he'll die at the end of the "campaign" Not 10 strips down the line. The Oracle said before the year is up. But then broke the 4th wall to say not real year.

All we know about Elan's story is that he won't die a virgin.

[El_Chupachichis]

That's rather like saying, "In a world where limbs can be regenerated, would the phrase 'he'll spend the rest of his life with one arm' have any meaning with permanence?" The existence of resurrection doesn't imply automatic resurrection. Shojo was not long for the world when he first appeared in the strip.


Really? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0572.html)

Urk. Asked that question wrong. I meant, would one still use that phrase for someone who was about to die, either permanently or temporarily?

I could imagine someone saying that about an NPC, or for someone who's life probably isn't worth 5000 GP in Diamonds. But would someone actually say that about someone like -- using your example -- Shojo, who would be considered worth the attempt? Roy might be a better example here, as there's people who are very determined to resurrect him, and he clearly wants to be resurrected. Would an outsider still say that of a person who could be revived?

If that phrase were only typically uttered for those who would be unlikely candidates for resurrection, then Belkar's death will be permanent and non-metaphorical.

[Bago!!!]

When I think of how Belkar will go down in OotS, I can't help but think back to Steven's comment in the Belkar Unliving thread. That sounds somewhat right, without the Miko bit atleast...

[Prowl]

To go along with his new character development, Belkar declares himself dead and assumes the name Belkon. Wealth by level guidelines make the IRA unnecessary.

[Faramir]

I don't think the Oracle lying is plausible. He made great pains to say those lines "on the record". I was under the impression that when the Oracle is in a trace he can't lie -

actually, you're right. I had forgotten the scene where he went into the trance. so much for that idea :)

[kerberos]

All the prophecies can be circumvented by something other than permanent death as some people have already pointed out. However I consider all the possibilities that I can think of lame copouts and therefore unlikely. I therefore, with great sadness and regret, conclude that Belkar won't see the end of the strip.

[Mordos]

you may or may not be taking the "not long for this world" bit to literally maybe "not long for this world" is just another a way to say dead.

and when you know your future and try to change it you more often than not cause it to happen.

[Alair]

you may or may not be taking the "not long for this world" bit to literally maybe "not long for this world" is just another a way to say dead.

and when you know your future and try to change it you more often than not cause it to happen.

A good point, I can't help but think that it's probably Important that Roy had that little bit quite pointedly beaten into him by the Oracle. So I don't think that Belkar is likely to die before Roy can do something with that bit of knowledge, although that doesn't necessarily mean he's got a free pass until his resurrection.