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herrhauptmann
2008-11-12, 01:14 AM
I'm currently working on a character for a high level campaign that could go planar. I'm so excited I'm almost giddy. Almost.

Anyway, I'm using this opportunity to take some very unusual races into consideration. One of those is the Thri-keen which are in a monster manual as well as Shining South. They have 4 arms and may take the Multiattack feat to make 4 attacks with only a -2 penalty. Sounds okay since their favored class is ranger. Now what would make this even better, is if multiattack has a feat tree similar to 2-weapon fighting.
Say 2 weapon fighting tree would get a human 6 attacks at bab 11. Is there some way to get a Thri-keen with his four arms to have 12 attacks at bab 11?
Or would I be stuck taking greater 2 weapon fighting to get my thrikeen 6 attacks with one set of arms, and and multiattack to allow me to use the other two arms for only 1 attack each, total of 8 attacks.

And no, i haven't chosen a class either. Though I might take a non-casting ranger, or something psionic or from ToB. But only the DM knows ToB in this group and he's not going to help me unless i have a specific question. Nor do I have immediate access to the psionics books.

starwoof
2008-11-12, 01:17 AM
The multiweapon fighting tree is right here (http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/monsterFeats.htm). It looks like you can get 12 attacks there, but not until BAB 15.:smallfrown:

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2008-11-12, 01:32 AM
Use the Nonpsionic version of Thri-Kreen, they have only a +1 LA instead of +2 and all you give up is the Psi-Like abilities and bonus powerpoints, definitely worth it.

You don't need Multiattack on a Thri-Kreen, it gets 4 claws as its primary natural attack, all at its full attack bonus, and then a bite as a secondary attack at -5 (-2 with multiattack). Even then, you're better off taking Multiweapon Fighting (MM) and the Improved (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#improvedMultiweaponFighting) and Greater (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#greaterMultiweaponFighting) versions.

With your two Racial HD, go Monk 1/ Soulknife 2/ Soulbow (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060403a&page=2), and maybe even get Vow of Poverty. You can fire a Mind Arrow with each hand, automatically getting at least four arrows/round without even using Rapid Shot. Get Zen Archery (CW) and make Wisdom your primary stat. Con and Dex are secondary, just make sure your Dex is high enough (counting Enhancement bonus/item) by the time you'll want to get your next I/G Multiweapon Fighting feat. I'd use the Sleeping Tiger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#sleepingTiger) style for Monk, since you probably won't need Stunning Fist or Improved Grapple at Monk 1, though Stunning Fist is good for when an opponent gets close to you. At Soulbow 2 give your Mind Arrows the Lucky property, every missed shot will get a second roll to hit.

BobVosh
2008-11-12, 02:08 AM
Nonpsionic TK, pick up a couple of levels of scout for skirmish and requirred skills. Go dervish. See what comparable sneak attack damage on 4 arms so long as you move looks like. Make the rogue cry. Taunt him. Look at wizard and feel sad again. Repeat.

Darrin
2008-11-12, 09:18 AM
Anyway, I'm using this opportunity to take some very unusual races into consideration. One of those is the Thri-keen which are in a monster manual as well as Shining South. They have 4 arms and may take the Multiattack feat to make 4 attacks with only a -2 penalty. Sounds okay since their favored class is ranger. Now what would make this even better, is if multiattack has a feat tree similar to 2-weapon fighting.


It does, although it's limited to Multiattack and Improved Multiattack (Savage Species, p. 36.) These two feats completely cancel out the seconary attack penalty (normally -5, multiattack makes it -2, imp. multi makes it zero).

What it doesn't do is give you extra attacks such as Imp. TWF and Gr. TWF. Unfortunately, we can't use the TWF chain because it doesn't work with multiattack. But there are several work-arounds for this.

1) First, pick up the monk's unarmed strike ability. However, don't actually take monk levels if you can avoid it. There are several other classes which give you the equivalent of a monk's unarmed strike, including treating it as a natural weapon, which is important for picking up Improved Natural Attack. The Unarmed Swordsage variant is a good place to start, although your BAB won't be any better than a monk. Battledancer (from Dragon Compendium, p. 26) gives you a monk's strike with full BAB. So does Fist of the Forest (Comp.Champ), a three-level PrC that increases unarmed strike damage twice.

Even better, Battledancer + Fist of the Forest doesn't have any annoying alignment issues, so you can dip Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian for Pounce if you like. There's also a Barbarian Variant in Dragon #349, the City Brawler, that trades proficiency with martial weapons, medium armor, and shields for Improved Unarmed Strike (the lousy non-monk version) and the effects of TWF when attacking with unarmed strikes.

Since they don't overlap, you can probably combine Spirit Lion Totem and City Brawler with only a one-level dip. You won't qualify for taking Improved TWF later (you don't actually have the TWF feat) but you can cancel out the -2 penalty with two levels of Bloodclaw Master. And heck, while we're at it, see if your DM will let you pick up the Whirling Frenzy version of Rage (Unearthed Arcana) for an extra attack while raging.

2) Then we have Flurry of Blows. However, we don't necessarily need to go monk to get this. Shou Disciple (Unapproachable East p. 32) has something similar with Martial Flurry and full BAB, and you can just treat your unarmed strike as a manufactured weapon if you like. Disciple of the Eye gives you the same Flurry that monks get, but also has that annoying lawful requirement and monkish BAB. Also requires dragonblood subtype, which you can pick up with the Dragontouched feat or a dip into Dragonfire Adept.

3) Pick up Snap Kick from ToB. This gives you an extra unarmed attack with a -2 penalty on all attacks. The downside is there's no easy way to cancel out that -2 penalty with something like Improved Multiattack or Bloodclaw Master. The upside is you get this extra attack even when making a standard attack.

I think it can get a lot worse from there if you go into Master Thrower and pick up Palm Throw... I believe it lets you make two throwing attacks per arm, and thri-kreen start with four. You can add another two arms with the Girallon's Blessing spell/potion, and two levels of Totemist would allow you to bind Girallon's Arms for another two arms. I think there's a build out there somewhere that gets 20+ attacks with Palm Throw.

herrhauptmann
2008-11-16, 03:48 AM
I have read multiweapon fighting, and I am pleased. :smallbiggrin:
DM ruling is that a thrikreen gets the +2ECL (with 2 monster levels) even if I don't play a psionic class or use any psionic abilities.

So I'm looking at scout, and I think that so long as I get my skirmish damage, it applies to ALL attacks I make that round. Meaning, multiweapon fighting and greater multiweapon fighting will give an 11th level thrikreen 8 attacks with 3d6 skirmish on each one. :smallbiggrin:

Besides Marilith, are there any other creatures with mulitple arms? (Not playing a dragon, so don't even suggest it:smallwink:)

BobVosh
2008-11-16, 03:53 AM
Insectile or something like that template from Savage specis gives ya 6 arms.

Threi-Kreen is in that book too XD

TK is the best/cheapest route to get the arms though

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2008-11-16, 04:46 AM
You only get all of your attacks on a full-attack action, during which you can only take a 5' step. If you want to move and attack to get Skirmish damage, you'll only get to make a single attack as a standard action (or as part of a charge). There are ways of getting around this, such as the feat Travel Devotion from Complete Champion, though you'd need to get the ability to Turn Undead to use it more than once/day.

The Nonpsionic Thri-Kreen is an official published version of the race (in both Monster Manual 2 and Shining South), similar to the Snow Elves and Ice Gnomes in Frostburn for example. It's actually the original version, the psionic abilities were added later for use as a psionic race and they decided to increase the LA to account for the added abilities. It is just as valid to use the nonpsionic version at the lower LA as it is to use the XPH version at the higher LA. If your DM still won't budge on it, then I'd say he's not being very fair, but it doesn't really matter if you'll still use the race without complaint.

BobVosh
2008-11-16, 06:58 AM
You only get all of your attacks on a full-attack action, during which you can only take a 5' step. If you want to move and attack to get Skirmish damage, you'll only get to make a single attack as a standard action (or as part of a charge). There are ways of getting around this, such as the feat Travel Devotion from Complete Champion, though you'd need to get the ability to Turn Undead to use it more than once/day.

This is why you go Dervish. With scout and 4 arms. Lion barbarian is pretty good with some supercharger stuff thrown in.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-11-16, 12:48 PM
Keep in mind that, as others have said, you need a way to deal Skirmish damage and move. If you can afford the 14,000 GP, Cyran Gliding Boots work. Otherwise, Whirling Frenzy Lion Totem Barbarian is nice.