[4E]Pirates vs. Ninjas

[DragonBaneDM]

Mmkay, first off let's not let this turn into a topic where we discuss which is better, this thread's simply not the place for that.

No, but my group and I argue about this, constantly. I am pro-Pirate, probably till the day I die. So, I suggested a duel.

It's probably gonna be 2 on 2. We're hoping to make it 3 on 3, but, oh, wouldn't ya know it, no one else wants to be a Pirate! So a 46 on 2 is out.

The map's probably gonna be King of the Hill style, complete with stuff for the Ninjas to hide behind and the Pirates to snipe from.

Which brings me to my first conundrum. Pirates are not Pirates without guns. I must find the most appropriate homebrew out there for these.

And another thing is, which classes can pass off as "Pirates"? Ninjas are rogues, there's no arguing that, but what else? I've found examples for rogues, fighters, both rangers, and even warlords as Pirates. I'd like to go non-homebrew here, all PHB stuff.

What do you guys think would be the best 2 man Pirate team I could put together? What about a 3 man?

And of course, any Ninja advice will be accepted as well. I guess. Maybe.

Hahaha, thanks for the help.

[overduegalaxy]

Warlord = Pirate captain

A feylock could probably pass off as a ninja. A less realistic ninja, obviously, but the dimension hopping is very ninja-esque, nonetheless. Archer rangers would also be fairly ninja-esque.

[Enlong]

*ahem*
Master Infiltrator or Shadow Assasin = Ninja. Full stop.
Especially Master Infiltrator: the class is pretty much based around geurilla warfare and wearing the opponent down from the shadows.

Pirate.... how about a Barbarian?

[Suzuro]

Maybe allowing the Ranger's ranged attacks to work for guns once you get them? That seems like it would do pirate well, you'd have the gunnery and then the rapier+main gauche combination.


-Suzuro

[Halcyon_Dax]

Rogues can be both in 4e.

Brutal Rogue with Feylock Multi = Ninja
Dashing Rogue with Chalord Multi = Pirate

Both are fun! LET THERE BE PEACE!

[Lord_Ventnor]

If you want guns, try reflavoring Crossbows and calling them pistols/muskets/other piratical firearms. You can also flavor any class as a pirate if you work hard enough.

Reflavoring is a truly wonderful thing. :smallbiggrin:

[Tuataralad]

Ya, there is a rogue (I think) paragon path in the Forgotten Realms Player guide called...something (it starts with "C"), I can't recall right now, but they are very piratey, including their bonus to any skills related to being on a ship. As for gun homebrews, I recommend Shadow Elf's, which can be found
here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95031) (post #11)

[Totally Guy]

I thought Rangers were ninjas, their quarry is very much the Ninja's target. Then they multiclass to rogue for all the extra sneak attack once per encounter.

[Tengu_temp]

Remember that the total level of a group of ninjas should be constant.

[Suzuro]

...while the level of the pirates should increase with numbers...so that's why you want 3 on 3!


-Suzuro

[TwystidMynd]

Honestly, you may want to go ahad and do the 46 v 2, simply due to the inverse law of ninja power, as alluded to by Tengu_temp and Suzuro.

For any unfamiliar with this law of nature...
it has been observed that if you are being pursued by a single ninja, then your only valid response (the only one which allows you to live) is to flee, as fighting this ninja is certainly suicide.
However, if you are being pursued by 20 ninjas, then if you fight them, then you will be attacked by them, one at a time, and each will clumsily miss, and will get knocked unconscious if you blink too furiously at them.

This leads to the generalized law that states that the overall power of any group of ninjas is inversely proportional to the number of ninjas in the group. The more ninjas there are, the weaker any individual ninja is.

[Mando Knight]

Pirates to snipe from.

Pirates? Snipe? I thought pirates fought face to face...

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Ya, there is a rogue (I think) paragon path in the Forgotten Realms Player guide called...something (it starts with "C"), I can't recall right now, but they are very piratey, including their bonus to any skills related to being on a ship. As for gun homebrews, I recommend Shadow Elf's, which can be found
here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95031) (post #11)
Corsairs, and it's actually not a rogue paragon path, but a martial paragon path, so any martial class can take it.

[chiasaur11]

Pirates? Snipe? I thought pirates fought face to face...

Not against ninjas.

Of course, either way the pirates lose, but face to face with even twenty ninjas, the pirates are doomed.

[Nerd-o-rama]

For the pirate team, you want an Inspiring Warlord for the captain and Rangers, Rogues, or Fighters for the other two (with the Corsair paragon path, obviously). Preferably using light armor and guns and/or one-handed swords for the flavor.

Or, if you're willing to dismiss the Arcane flavor, Swordmages make good Errol Flynn-style fencers...their moves are a bit flashier than most classic pirates, though.

Ninjas should be Rogues and/or Feylocks.

While using Crossbows as flintlock-era firearms is feasible, one might also design something appropriate by taking each kind of crossbow, increasing the damage die by one type, and increasing the load action by one type. Flintlock firearms are powerful, but tricky to reload; standard practice is to carry at least two pistols, to by fired and dropped in succession.

[Doug Lampert]

As for gun homebrews, I recommend Shadow Elf's, which can be found
here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95031) (post #11)
WTF! He has handguns with an 8 round clip and blunderbusses on the same list. Is the period modern or archaic?

The blunderbus is load MINOR rather than 4 or more standard actions being needed (so it's not actually a blunderbus). It doesn't provoke OA if fired at short range but does if fired at long range, and somehow the bullets know what the range is to determine how fast to spread!

He has a shoulder cannon that knocks targets prone at range, yet it doesn't knock the firer prone or do damage to the firer due to bruising. Nor does it simply do what EVERY too heavy to be reasonably fired by a single man firearm has done since the invention of the first Hand Gunne and use a firing stand or a tripod. Instead it somehow encumbers more another object of equivalent weight.

He has 4 guns. And EVERY SINGLE ONE has different new (and IMAO silly) rules, one is archaic, 2 are modern, 1 is fantasy, so the list has no semblance of realism for any period, and the weapons don't work all that similarly.

Go with someone else's suggestion and just rename the crossbows. It's more "realistic", easier, and better ballanced. (Edit: or take the above post and go with + one to die size and increased load time. That's actually reasonably "realistic".)

Guns don't need all sorts of special rules, they're weapons, unless you have at least two out of smokeless powder, minee balls (or some equivalent), and repeaters they really aren't worth a bunch of special rules. And if you do have at least two out three of smokeless, minee balls, and repeaters then pretty well every other weapon in the game is obsolete.

[FoE]

Dorks. There is no "pirates vs. ninjas" debate. That's an old joke started by ninjas. (http://www.drmcninja.com/page.php?pageNum=32&issue=2)

[DragonBaneDM]

Not against ninjas.

Of course, either way the pirates lose, but face to face with even twenty ninjas, the pirates are doomed.

This is where the 2d8 per shot of a +27 Perception Ranger wielding a Dragon Rifle from Monty Cooke's Ptolus comes in handy. Just gotta rework it so it's a high crit with a standard action to reload. Add in Rapid Reload, you've got, what, an average of 70 damage per round?

Fufufufufu...

And I love the idea of the feylock being a ninja. Mainly since their weakest player loves Feylocks, and is also terrible at playing them.

[chiasaur11]

Dorks. There is no "pirates vs. ninjas" debate. That's an old joke started by ninjas. (http://www.drmcninja.com/page.php?pageNum=32&issue=2)

Heh.

Yeah. Ninjas are wacky guys.

[AgentPaper]

Pirates and ninjas are both rouges. Pirates are the brutal scoundrel archetype, ninjas are the artful dodger archetype. Pirates take athletics and use crossbows (Can be reflavored to guns) while ninjas use throwing stars. Both use light blades in close fights.

Damnit, now I have to make these characters in the chraacter generator beta...:smallbiggrin: