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Ereth
2008-11-13, 07:44 AM
I am looking for advice in useful spells and feats for an archivist. I am aiming for a buffer or controller role. Starting level is 3, Eberron. 32 point buy, chosen stats: str12 dex12 con14 int16 wis14 cha10.

Anything else i may need to know? thank you very much.

kamikasei
2008-11-13, 07:57 AM
Check with your DM about what you can and can't do.

A lot of the reason Archivists are considered very powerful is because they can learn spells from lists like the Paladin's or Ranger's, letting them learn a powerful spell with a low spell level. If you can do this, the advice will be quite different to if you can only take from full divine casters' lists, e.g. clerics or druids.

Similarly, your access to spells from domains will affect your options.

Thurbane
2008-11-13, 08:01 AM
Quick piece of advice before I go to bed: don't forget to raid the "other" divine spell lists, hard and often - Cleric Domains and Adepts, especially. :smallwink:

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2008-11-13, 08:04 AM
Archivist Spell List (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=515321), including Secret Page (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/secretPage.htm) which puts any spell you'd ever want onto only one page of your prayerbook.

Batman (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19085) is probably the way to go on this.

Tengu_temp
2008-11-13, 08:17 AM
Advice for an archivist? Try not to outshine the rest of the party.

Jimp
2008-11-13, 08:37 AM
Make sure to check with your DM about how lenient he is with using spells from different lists. The class is good anyway, but the more silly-good stuff depends on using other spell lists.
As for what spells are good, that list on Gleemax is a good place to start.

Eldariel
2008-11-13, 10:44 AM
You could go with Int 18 if you intend on using Magic for combat. Alternatively, you could go Archivist Archer (those things are awesome). What you'd want to focus on really determines what spells you should prioritise. Also, which sources is indeed important. Obviously you'll have:
Druid
Cleric
Ranger
Paladin

However, the other options:
Adept
Divine Bard (Unearthed Arcana)
Various PrCs with their own lists

could all be used and give you early access to many spells (Trapsmith has Dispel Magic on level 1, for example, and Adept has Heal on level 5) and access to many spells you wouldn't have at all (like the whole Bard spellbook).

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-11-13, 10:48 AM
Don't forget the Healer class, the Planar domains, and classes like Spirit Shaman. If you can get Leadership and an Artificer cohort, you will win, now and forever.

monty
2008-11-13, 11:49 AM
I always liked Holy Sword (it's personal, though, so don't bother unless you're doing the fighting). +5 weapon and more at level 7? Yes, please.

wadledo
2008-11-13, 12:14 PM
I always liked Holy Sword (it's personal, though, so don't bother unless you're doing the fighting). +5 weapon and more at level 7? Yes, please.

Now, where is that from?:smallamused::smallconfused:

monty
2008-11-13, 12:14 PM
Now, where is that from?:smallamused::smallconfused:

It's a core Paladin spell.

wadledo
2008-11-13, 12:21 PM
It's a core Paladin spell.

.......Some day I'm actualy going to have to play a Paladin, so that things like ths don't happen.

Also, 3rd level buffer/controler's are a bit difficult.

Eldariel
2008-11-13, 02:16 PM
.......Some day I'm actualy going to have to play a Paladin, so that things like ths don't happen.

Also, 3rd level buffer/controler's are a bit difficult.

3rd level is quite optimal for a controller. You have Glitterdust, Web, Color Spray, Sleep, Entangle, Silence and company, which are some of the most effective spells of those levels, and happen to mostly be control-spells (max out Int for saves though - dropping Str and Cha for it may be prudent). Bless, Blessed Aim, Protection from Alignment and company make for decent buffing too.

wadledo
2008-11-13, 02:33 PM
3rd level is quite optimal for a controller. You have Glitterdust, Web, Color Spray, Sleep, Entangle, Silence and company, which are some of the most effective spells of those levels, and happen to mostly be control-spells (max out Int for saves though - dropping Str and Cha for it may be prudent). Bless, Blessed Aim, Protection from Alignment and company make for decent buffing too.

Arcane Controller, yes.
Divine? Less so.

Eldariel
2008-11-13, 02:59 PM
Arcane Controller, yes.
Divine? Less so.

Archivist is more of an Arcane controller than a Divine one anyways. Thanks to Domain, he has access to all the critical Arcane spells, coupled with a few good additions from Druid- and Cleric-lists. And last I checked, this thread was about Archivists.

EDIT: Web I couldn't find. Sorry. So you'll have to make do with the rest, getting Web level 3 from Anyspell.

Nohwl
2008-11-13, 03:27 PM
Don't forget the Healer class, the Planar domains, and classes like Spirit Shaman. If you can get Leadership and an Artificer cohort, you will win, now and forever.

why do you need an artificer cohort?

Eldariel
2008-11-13, 03:27 PM
why do you need an artificer cohort?

Everybody needs an Artificer cohort.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-11-13, 03:30 PM
why do you need an artificer cohort?To craft scrolls of spells from random off-the-wall lists that you couldn't realistically find in-game.

Nohwl
2008-11-13, 03:38 PM
i thought they changed it for artificers in the errata. maybe im wrong, i havent read it in a while.

PurinaDragonCho
2008-11-13, 03:43 PM
EDIT: Web I couldn't find. Sorry. So you'll have to make do with the rest, getting Web level 3 from Anyspell.

Adepts get Web.

I don't believe Anyspell is viable for Archivists - it has to be cast from a domain slot, and Archivists don't have domain spell slots. Some people think Holt Warden from Complete Champion can give you domain slots... but as I read it, you could really only cast Plant Domain spells from them.

I'm very interested in this thread, though. Playing a Rogue 3 / Archivist 9 right now.

Eldariel
2008-11-13, 04:02 PM
Adepts get Web.

I knew I was forgetting something. Yea, that's why it worked out.


I don't believe Anyspell is viable for Archivists - it has to be cast from a domain slot, and Archivists don't have domain spell slots. Some people think Holt Warden from Complete Champion can give you domain slots... but as I read it, you could really only cast Plant Domain spells from them.

Meh, that's just dumb. Well, you've got almost all the spells you could want anyways between Divine Bard, Adept, Domains and PrCs.

PurinaDragonCho
2008-11-13, 04:49 PM
By the way, one spell I've found really useful (at least at lower levels) is Produce Flame. Touch attacks are nice. I always overlooked that spell until I started playing my current character.

When you can get it, Holy Smite is also awesome.

ColonelFuster
2008-11-13, 04:54 PM
Multiclassing into Archivist was the best move my rogue ever made. Dex and Int stats maxed, making touch attacks with sneakies... good times.

Nohwl
2008-11-13, 09:40 PM
i checked wizards, and they did errata it. a 12th level warlock could make divine scrolls. i dont know of anything that could do it earlier.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2008-11-13, 10:21 PM
The only scroll you ever need to obtain is Secret Page, from someone with the Rune domain. As it happens, just having that domain gives them Scribe Scroll, so it wouldn't be a stretch to be able to get one. Then you can just cast that to switch a spell already in your book to any other spell you want it to be, and then you've got the spell written down to learn it. No need for someone to craft scrolls, no problems with trying to find someone who has the spell you want as a divine spell.

Nohwl
2008-11-13, 11:28 PM
are there any feats that an archivist should take? i know knowledge devotion and quicken spell are nice, but that leaves 5 or 6 feats open.

Drammel
2008-11-14, 12:35 AM
I've mentioned it before in another thread, but it's worth saying again. Take Lore of the Gods from Complete Champion if you have access. If you worship a god with the Knowledge domain (just worship, you don't need the actual domain) you get a +10 to all Knowledge checks which is exactly the type of check the Archivist's class skill Dark Knowledge is. Dark Knowledge is a DC 15 check with additional benefits for how far over you pass that DC. Without even taking stat bonus into consideration, at level 3 with max ranks in the pertinent Knowledge skill you're looking at an automatic check of 17 on a roll of 1. That's the minimum benefit. Incidentally, the spell also lasts an hour per level. That's just my 2 cent though, I'm fond of Dark Knowledge for some odd reason.

Which brings me to my philosophy on Archivist feats. If you think there are going to be any giants, fey, golems, or dragons in your campaign take Archivist of Nature and Draconic Archivist, located conveniently a few pages after the Archivist entry in Heroes of Horror.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-11-14, 12:41 AM
I've mentioned it before in another thread, but it's worth saying again. Take Lore of the Gods from Complete Champion if you have access. If you worship a god with the Knowledge domain (just worship, you don't need the actual domain) you get a +10 to all Knowledge checks which is exactly the type of check the Archivist's class skill Dark Knowledge is. Dark Knowledge is a DC 15 check with additional benefits for how far over you pass that DC. Without even taking stat bonus into consideration, at level 3 with max ranks in the pertinent Knowledge skill you're looking at an automatic check of 17 on a roll of 1. That's the minimum benefit. Incidentally, the spell also lasts an hour per level. That's just my 2 cent though, I'm fond of Dark Knowledge for some odd reason.Don't forget the Collector of Stories Skill Trick, for +5 to Knowledge checks to ID monsters.

Drammel
2008-11-14, 12:54 AM
Don't forget the Collector of Stories Skill Trick, for +5 to Knowledge checks to ID monsters.

You sir, are my new personal hero. :smallbiggrin:

monty
2008-11-14, 01:03 AM
Dip Sacred Exorcist and pick up some divine feats.

Nohwl
2008-11-14, 01:39 AM
you mean divine might, dmm quicken, and dmm persist?

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2008-11-14, 01:42 AM
you mean divine might, dmm quicken, and dmm persist?

Switch Divine Might for Divine Spell Power and that's a complete list.

PurinaDragonCho
2008-11-14, 11:12 AM
Don't forget the Collector of Stories Skill Trick, for +5 to Knowledge checks to ID monsters.

I could be wrong here, because I don't have my books at the moment, but I don't believe that works with Dark Knowledge - IIRC, that is a specific type of check, with its own bonuses.

There is a spell in the Spell Compendium, I think it's called Divine Insight - it gives you a +5 on a knowledge check. Very useful against that undead, aberration or evil outsider BBEG, when you REALLY need Dark Knowledge to work.

Eldariel
2008-11-14, 02:45 PM
Against such opponents, Dark Knowledge is frankly overpowered. On level 11 (when you get Dread Secret), you can easily make the DC35 check (14 ranks + 7 Int + ~5 spells gives you about 60% chance to do it, and that's without even trying) and if the opponent is vulnerable to either Daze or Stun, he's pretty boned right at that point. No-save lose-a-turn is totally insane.

Nohwl
2008-11-14, 05:30 PM
Switch Divine Might for Divine Spell Power and that's a complete list.

how do you ensure that you get at least a 19 on your check for turn undead?

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2008-11-14, 06:01 PM
how do you ensure that you get at least a 19 on your check for turn undead?

I was talking about a complete list of the useful Divine feats, I probably wouldn't take Divine Spell Power with an Archivist, but it's a lot more useful than Divine Might unless you have a SAD Cha-based character. When I make a good Cleric I'll usually take Radiant Servant of Pelor with Craft Wondrous Item, get the Glory domain (+2), 5+ ranks in Kn: Religion (+2), Circlet of Persuasion (+3), and a decent base Cha (14-16) with an Enhancement bonus item.

PurinaDragonCho
2008-11-17, 12:13 PM
I recently found a very cool spell in the Spell Compendium - Foebane - a 4th level ranger spell. You choose a creature type when you cast the spell, and your weapon gains the bane property. You also get a +4 bonus on certain saves. Could be very useful against some things that holy sword won't work on.