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olelia
2008-11-13, 10:00 AM
I noticed a lot of the animals have advancement in their stat blocks i.e.


Size/Type: Large Animal (Aquatic)
Hit Dice: 8d8+11 (47 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares), swim 30 ft.
Armor Class: 18 (-1 size, +2 Dex, +7 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 16
Base Attack/Grapple: +6/+15
Attack: Tentacle +10 melee (1d4+5)
Full Attack: 8 tentacles +10 melee (1d4+5) and bite +5 melee (1d8+2)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft. (20 ft. with tentacle)
Special Attacks: Improved grab, constrict
Special Qualities: Ink cloud, jet, low-light vision
Saves: Fort +7, Ref +8, Will +3
Abilities: Str 20, Dex 15, Con 13, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 3
Skills: Escape Artist +12, Hide +12, Listen +4, Spot +6, Swim +13
Feats: Alertness, Skill Focus (Hide), Toughness
Environment: Warm aquatic
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 8
Advancement: 9-12 HD (Large); 13-24 HD (Huge)
Level Adjustment: —


I know the argument about the

The form chosen must be that of an animal the druid is familiar with.

but...could a druid with sufficient knowledge nature could a druid wildshape into the 13-24 HD octupus...if yes...does he pick the feats and stat adjustments for the HD increase?

Saph
2008-11-13, 10:03 AM
but...could a druid with sufficient knowledge nature could a druid wildshape into the 13-24 HD octupus?

Nope. Un-advanced animals only, as far as I know.

- Saph

olelia
2008-11-13, 10:09 AM
Wild shape acts like alternate form special ability.


A creature with this special quality has the ability to assume one or more specific alternate forms. A true seeing spell or ability reveals the creature’s natural form. A creature using alternate form reverts to its natural form when killed, but separated body parts retain their shape. A creature cannot use alternate form to take the form of a creature with a template. Assuming an alternate form results in the following changes to the creature:

The alternate form just says you can't stack templates. I've always ran it like what you said Saph but I was mostly curious if anything by RAW actually says otherwise.

Darrin
2008-11-13, 10:34 AM
but...could a druid with sufficient knowledge nature could a druid wildshape into the 13-24 HD octupus...if yes...does he pick the feats and stat adjustments for the HD increase?

Wild shape/alternate form is only capable of assuming the form of an average specimen. Advancing the HD means it's no longer average.

If you're looking for bigger animals, there are some legendary animals in Masters of the Wild, maybe some other 3.0 sources. Unfortunately, no legendary or dire octopus. =(

zugschef
2008-11-13, 10:42 AM
as if a druid needed any advanced forms...

olelia
2008-11-13, 11:41 AM
Wild shape/alternate form is only capable of assuming the form of an average specimen. Advancing the HD means it's no longer average.

If you're looking for bigger animals, there are some legendary animals in Masters of the Wild, maybe some other 3.0 sources. Unfortunately, no legendary or dire octopus. =(


Alternate Form
A creature with this special quality has the ability to assume one or more specific alternate forms. A true seeing spell or ability reveals the creature’s natural form. A creature using alternate form reverts to its natural form when killed, but separated body parts retain their shape. A creature cannot use alternate form to take the form of a creature with a template. Assuming an alternate form results in the following changes to the creature:

The creature retains the type and subtype of its original form. It gains the size of its new form. If the new form has the aquatic subtype, the creature gains that subtype as well.
The creature loses the natural weapons, natural armor, and movement modes of its original form, as well as any extraordinary special attacks of its original form not derived from class levels (such as the barbarian’s rage class feature).
The creature gains the natural weapons, natural armor, movement modes, and extraordinary special attacks of its new form.
The creature retains the special qualities of its original form. It does not gain any special qualities of its new form.
The creature retains the spell-like abilities and supernatural attacks of its old form (except for breath weapons and gaze attacks). It does not gain the spell-like abilities or attacks of its new form.
The creature gains the physical ability scores (Str, Dex, Con) of its new form. It retains the mental ability scores (Int, Wis, Cha) of its original form. Apply any changed physical ability score modifiers in all appropriate areas with one exception: the creature retains the hit points of its original form despite any change to its Constitution.
The creature retains its hit points and save bonuses, although its save modifiers may change due to a change in ability scores.
Except as described elsewhere, the creature retains all other game statistics of its original form, including (but not necessarily limited to) HD, hit points, skill ranks, feats, base attack bonus, and base save bonuses.
The creature retains any spellcasting ability it had in its original form, although it must be able to speak intelligibly to cast spells with verbal components and it must have humanlike hands to cast spells with somatic components.
The creature is effectively camouflaged as a creature of its new form, and it gains a +10 bonus on Disguise checks if it uses this ability to create a disguise.
Any gear worn or carried by the creature that can’t be worn or carried in its new form instead falls to the ground in its space. If the creature changes size, any gear it wears or carries that can be worn or carried in its new form changes size to match the new size. (Nonhumanoid-shaped creatures can’t wear armor designed for humanoid-shaped creatures, and vice versa.) Gear returns to normal size if dropped.

The bolded text appears to be the only reference to the HD and the "original" form is the part that could be interpreted. I know everywhere that people have said that you just use the MM animal stats...but as we've been shown about the monk proficiencies does it actually say anywhere that you can't choose the advanced animal?

Vinotaur
2008-11-13, 12:20 PM
Ain't nothing stopping you from using advanced creatures. So just go right ahead.