Vote Up a Class!(3.5e)(Now voting-Fluff)

[DrakebloodIV]

Voting Rules

1.) Obvious forum rules (No spamming, flaming, being a general jerk etc.
2.) 1 person 1 vote
3.) Each voting round lasts roughly 24 hours. After that, you cannot vote or change your vote. (Ends at noon-1pm Mountain Standard time)
4.) If you'd like to suggest something to vote on or notice something odd PM me, DONT POST ERRORS ON FORUM!
5.) I reserve the right to make one (and only one) veto, if the addition of whatever was voted will make the class badly over/under powered, will make bad fluff/crunch, causes contradictory abilities or in another fashion ruins the class. Once this veto has been used i will cross this statement out.


First Voting Round: Classes Role Skillmonkey

{table=head] Name | # Votes
Skillmonkey | 8
Melee | 0
Casting | 1
Hybrid | 4
[/table]

Second Voting Round: Class Focus Half Skillmonkey

{table=head] Name | Description | # Votes
Pure Skillmonkey | NO combat or casting ability, Many skills | 5
Mostly Skillmonkey | Weak combat or casting ability level, a significant amount of skills | 4
Half Skillmonkey | Average amount of combat or casting ability, larger than average skills | 7
[/table]

Third Voting Round: What Kind of Class? Base Class

{table=head] Name | # Votes
Commoner NPC | 2
Base Class | 9
Low Level (lvl5ish) PrC | 1
Mid Level (lvl10ish) PrC | 1
High Level (lvl15ish) PrC | 0
Epic (lvl20+) PrC | 0

Fourth Voting Round: Main Source of Power Surroundings

{table=head] Name | # Votes
Divine | 0
Magical | 0
Mental | 1
Pun Pun | 1
Physical | 0
Surroundings | 5
Soul | 3
Your own Idea | state it in your post
[/table]

Fifth Voting Round: Focus of their abilitiesWinner-Debuffs Runner up- Utility abilities

{table=head] Name | # Votes
Buffs | 1
Damage | 1
Debuffs | 6
Defending | 0
Distraction | 2
Healing | 0
Magic Disruption | 2
NPC interaction (Diplomacy) | 0
Utility Abilities (Travel, Water Breathing etc) | 4
[/table]

Sixth Voting Round: Fluff
{table=head] Name | Description | Powers (Not Necicarily Accurate | # Votes
Combat Smith | This master of Iron can smash his enemies with his hammer and use molten metal to attack his foes | Repair checks on weapons in battle, terrain alteration, summon molten elemental | 0
Fung Sheui Master | This lord of symmetry alters his terrain to access arcane powers | Alter terrain, powers vary based on the qi of the master | 0
Lord of the earth | Similar to the druid, the Lord of the earth enlists nature to his aide, however, he fundamentally alters the land around him | Alter nature similar to a clerics turning ability, call on the earth | 0
Ropemaster | From grappling hooks to nooses, this man has it all! | Use Rope checks to lay traps, entangle foes and make grapple checks from long distance | 0
[/table]
DONT VOTE YET, I'M STILL THINKING UP IDEAS
Suggestions welcome

[Zeta Kai]

I'd like to see more Skillmonkey classes. We've a slew of Caster & Melee classes, & Hybrids are all the rage, but pure Skillmonkeys can be counted on one hand.

Also, good luck with this poll. Class balance is trickier than any other aspect of game design, in my mind. There's a reason why I never tackled a class vote.

[puppyavenger]

BANDWAGON!skillmonkey

[DrakebloodIV]

Somehow I knew that would be all the rage. Quite frankly I'd like to see a really well done Hybrid, as they are really over or underpowered usually. Of course, I'm not exactly the most gifted homebrewer...

[streakster]

Casting. It's whats for dinner.

[Owrtho]

skill monkey

Owrtho

[afroakuma]

You may want to check out thegurullamen's contest. He did the exact same thing earlier.

[DrakebloodIV]

Could you link it?

[Egiam]

Skillmonkey

[thegurullamen]

Yeah, um, COMPLICATED. I have the skeleton of the class written (and it barely conforms to the vote, but the important thing is that it does) and now I'm working on the extensive aspects. New mechanics, a wide variety of alternative abilities playing off of those mechanics, etc. It'll look a little clunky when I release it, but if I choose to revamp it a couple of times, I might get something as ground-breakingly creative as an Incarnate. Or as bland as a duckblade.

Either way, skillmonkey.

[Akennedy]

Hybrid I agree with Drake, hybrids tend to be over/underpowered, as a result, only a few ever get played (in their particular niche). A couple that instantly come to mind are Abjurant Champion over the Havoc Mage and Eldritch Knight. The Spellsword was a nice PrC but it's spellcasting kinda sucks, but I think you get what I mean.
And yes, I was strictly talking mage/fighter hybrids there.

[Lappy9000]

Skillmonkey.

I love the melees, but I can't remember the last time I saw a skillmonkey...

[Heliomance]

Healbot that still manages to be fun to play.

[Draz74]

What Heliomance said. By which I mean, I vote Hybrid.

Something like the Dragon Shaman, but better and less flavor-specific, would be a good new class to have.

[DrakebloodIV]

Heliomance, are you saying you want to be caster or hybrid or are you even voting?

[Pie Guy]

HYBRID

Does size seven count as extra votes?

[Athaniar]

Hybrids are fun.

[bue52]

Skillmonkey
They always rock!

[UnChosenOne]

Skillmonkey

[DrakebloodIV]

Voting Round 1 Over! Beginning Voting Round 2

[puppyavenger]

Voting Round 1 Over! Beginning Voting Round 2

what are we voting on?

[streakster]

Pure Skillmonkey

We gonna do this, we gonna do it aight.

[puppyavenger]

Pure Skillmonkey

We gonna do this, we gonna do it aight.

seconded pure skillmonkey

[DrakebloodIV]

Just to clarify
-Pure skillmonkey- Obscene amount of skills, including at least 3 made up skills. Fighting ability of a Commoner
-Mostly skillmonkey- Many skills, at least 2 made up skills. Fighting ability of about a bard
-Half skillmonkey- Quite a few skills, at least 1 class made up. Fighting ability of a rogue

[puppyavenger]

Just to clarify
-Pure skillmonkey- Obscene amount of skills, including at least 3 class skills. Fighting ability of a Commoner
-Mostly skillmonkey- Many skills, at least 2 class skills. Fighting ability of about a bard
-Half skillmonkey- Quite a few skills, at least 1 class skill. Fighting ability of a rogue

wait, only 3 class skills at most? fighters have more then that!

[DrakebloodIV]

sorry, i meant class-specific skills, skills i make up for use for the class, my bad

[puppyavenger]

sorry, i meant class-specific skills, skills i make up for use for the class, my bad

oh, sounds good then.

[Owrtho]

pure skillmonkey

Owrtho

[Zeta Kai]

It's funny, that you classify the Rogue as a half-skillmonkey, because I view the Rogue as one of the few pure skill monkeys around.

But I said earlier that I wanna see more, so I will vote for Pure Skillmonkey.

[Draz74]

I would never play a class with no more use in combat than a Bard in an Antimagic Field. If Rogue is a "half" skillmonkey, then I vote Half Skillmonkey.

[kopout]

mostly skill monkey need to be able to defend them selfs

[starwoof]

Half Skillmonkey. Hmm, that sounds like a template to me.:smallbiggrin:

[kopout]

Half Skillmonkey. Hmm, that sounds like a template to me.:smallbiggrin:

It does doesn't it.

[DrakebloodIV]

mostly skill monkey need to be able to defend them selfs

I think you make a good point. If one made a pure skillmonkey, the monkey would be practically defenceless in combat... I'm worried I might have to use my emergency veto in this vote...

[bue52]

Mostly Skillmonkey, and focuses on support buffing or debuffing, well, that is up to the homebrewer.

[EdroGrimshell]

Go for hybrid, preferably a divine hybrid

[Flame of Anor]

I'll go half skillmonkey.

[DrakebloodIV]

Go for hybrid, preferably a divine hybrid

Dude, 1st round voting is over.

[streakster]

I think you make a good point. If one made a pure skillmonkey, the monkey would be practically defenceless in combat... I'm worried I might have to use my emergency veto in this vote...

So give it skills that make it good in combat. Iajutsu focus, anyone?

[Sereg]

I'm going with mostly skillmonkey.

[DrakebloodIV]

So give it skills that make it good in combat. Iajutsu focus, anyone?

Even so, you are making a check to gain a bonus to making a check. Suppose you are making a check in a skill to gain +2 to your attack bonus. If you have 8 ranks in that skill and a +2 ability modifier, you only have +10 to that check. On a DC 20 check, you only have slightly less than a 50% chance to gain that modifier. Now a class with a BaB that is 2 better than the skill providing class will not only have a superior chance to hit, but as levels continue on it gains more attacks and a greater chance to hit consistantly. So spending skills in fighting abilities is, essentally, converting skillmonkey ability into fighting power in a very inefficient fashon.

[UnChosenOne]

Half Skillmonkey.

[streakster]

Even so, you are making a check to gain a bonus to making a check. Suppose you are making a check in a skill to gain +2 to your attack bonus. If you have 8 ranks in that skill and a +2 ability modifier, you only have +10 to that check. On a DC 20 check, you only have slightly less than a 50% chance to gain that modifier. Now a class with a BaB that is 2 better than the skill providing class will not only have a superior chance to hit, but as levels continue on it gains more attacks and a greater chance to hit consistantly. So spending skills in fighting abilities is, essentally, converting skillmonkey ability into fighting power in a very inefficient fashon.

Erm - I meant the custom skills you said you'd give it.

[Frog Dragon]

Half skillmonkey goes my vote.

[Heliomance]

I find it hard to believe a pure skillmonkey with no combat capabilty would be fun to play. Therefore, mostly skillmonkey.

[Drakefall]

Half Skillmonkey... with a tail, double-plus good facial hair and a strange love of bananas.

[vegetalss4]

pure skillmonkey, let us do this straigth

[Athaniar]

Mostly Skillmonkey. We must leave room for other things, too.

[Lorien077]

I vote half skill monkey too. :)

[DrakebloodIV]

Second Voting Round Is Over! Third Is Up!

[puppyavenger]

mid levelish (level 10is) PRC

[streakster]

Commoner, of course.

[aaron_the_cow]

COMMONER FTW

[DrakebloodIV]

FTW

Hey, do you think dyslexics are offended by that phrase? =P

[Drakefall]

Low-Level Prc sounds good for a skillmonkey.

[Zeta Kai]

What does "Commoner" even mean as a choice? I don't understand that one.

Anyway, I'd be really disappointed if this wasn't a Base Class. It would feel like a bait-&-switch. I mean, this is the Vote Up a Class thread, after all.

[Owrtho]

Base class

Owrtho

[Flame of Anor]

Yes, let's hear it for base class! What is "commoner" supposed to mean, anyway--it's already a class, for heaven's sake.

[puppyavenger]

Yes, let's hear it for base class! What is "commoner" supposed to mean, anyway--it's already a class, for heaven's sake.

I think he means NPC class, that's what I assumed anyway. ala Expert. which is pretty much a pure skillmonkey anyway.

[Heliomance]

Base Class

[Sereg]

Base class, please. That's what I've been expecting eagerly.

[starwoof]

Base Class, please and thank you.:smallsmile:

[bue52]

A BAse class.

[Frog Dragon]

Base classes for the win

[UnChosenOne]

One more Base Class to player's.

[DrakebloodIV]

Voting Round 3 Over, Sorry For The Delay

[DrakebloodIV]

hey Everyone Voting Round 4 Has Been Up For Hours, Vote Already

[Owrtho]

Well, just cuz I haven't seen it done much (if at all), I'll vote for surroundings as their main source of power.

Owrtho

[Vadin]

Well, just cuz I haven't seen it done much (if at all), I'll vote for surroundings as their main source of power.

Owrtho

That would be SO COOL.

SURROUNDINGS, Final Fantasy Tactics GEOMANCER style. Depending on where he is and where his target is, he gets different powers and can do different things.

[puppyavenger]

Well, just cuz I haven't seen it done much (if at all), I'll vote for surroundings as their main source of power.

Owrtho

Bandwagon Bandwagon!

surroundings.

[An Enemy Spy]

Two words: Sock Puppets. Could there be a better power source than that?

[Heliomance]

Pun Pun. He should get his powers from Pun Pun.

[horngeek]

Own Idea- Own soul Watch Bleach for more details, but it would need expansion. I am NOT suggesting a straight ripoff of Zanpaktou.

[Zeta Kai]

Pun Pun. He should get his powers from Pun Pun.

No, man, Sorry, but no. Never. If that vote is counted, then I'm voting for Not Pun-Pun.

Seriously though, I'm voting for Mental.

[UnChosenOne]

Surroundings

[DrakebloodIV]

Wow, you guys got creative with the power sources

[Frog Dragon]

Surroundings I say. That has the potential of being something really cool.

[bue52]

Surroundings

[Ossian]

We all know it, let's say it. There is only one truly unending pool of raw POWAH...the SOUL gets my vote. Why: here is the answer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwuiCpJol50)

I must campaign for that!

Best.

O.

[Flame of Anor]

Um...not to be a spoilsport or anything, but "Power Source" is totally a 4E thing. It's as they say,
MADNESS? THIS! IS! THREE POINT FIVE EDITION!!!!

[Drakefall]

We all know it, let's say it. There is only one truly unending pool of raw POWAH...the SOUL gets my vote. Why: here is the answer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwuiCpJol50)

I must campaign for that!

Best.

O.

Whole heartedly agreed! As my signature would say: Ro Ro Fight The Powah!!!

Feel the burning power of a man's passionate soul!

[DrakebloodIV]

Um...not to be a spoilsport or anything, but "Power Source" is totally a 4E thing. It's as they say,
MADNESS? THIS! IS! THREE POINT FIVE EDITION!!!!

3.5 three point schmive. This is just a simple description of what he focus's on.
Like a monk vs. a fighter, a fighters abilities are mostly physical but a monk's are arguably mental or at least mind over matter.

[Luean]

Surroundings , please

[DrakebloodIV]

new Round Starting!

[Zeta Kai]

Magic Disruption. Down with sorcery! Up with skills!

[Vadin]

Magic Disruption, but only if he can also mess with other people. If Magic Disruption means he has anti-magic stuff but is at a loss against a fighter, then Defense (by which I mean interrupting enemies who are doing things and creating distractions and weird effects, thus defending his party by hampering his foes. After all, -1 to an enemies attack is (functionally in one target, one attacker system) the same as +1 to target's AC).

[Owrtho]

I'd like to vote for distraction, if possible.

Owrtho

[Drakefall]

Since he's drawing his ability from his surroundings I'm going to assume this means he's somehow manipulating them and/or working off them. Therefore I propose that he should have more than one kind of focus. Perhaps, utility, defense, magic disruption and such can be merged into general battlefield control?

If I have to pick one though I'm going to have to go with utility.

[Vadin]

I'd like to vote for distraction, if possible.

Owrtho

THAT'S the word I was looking for. Agressive and iterrupting defense- DISTRACTION. Please change my vote to it.

[paddyfool]

Just to set a new idea, how about debuffs? I don't know of that many classes that focus on this in a big way, but whether through casting or physical action, it could be an interesting spin.

[streakster]

Damage. Or as the French say, Dommage

[FoeHammer]

Utility Abilities cause that sounds cool

[Heliomance]

Debuffs/distraction

[kopout]

Buffs because that way you can give your self and others utility abilities

[EdroGrimshell]

Debuff, their are so few GOOD debuffing classes that are also skilled like a rogue

[Flame of Anor]

Utility because who wants to play a character that only ever debuffs or disrupts magic? Seriously, what if the party has an encounter that doesn't include a spellcaster? "Oh, well, I'll just sit in the corner, because my class doesn't do anything useful in this situation."

[bue52]

Debuffs. I don't see a real need in making the class too combat oriented. As for why debuffing? Because its the opposite of buffing, weakening the enemy instead of empowering your allies, you can do some major annoyance, and if you do a little melee get into trouble and come back safely just for the thrill of the adrenaline.

[Ossian]

"Debuffs" seems to be coming out as an original and cool idea. My vote for it then.

Cheers,

O.

[UnChosenOne]

Debuffs. Think like it üder-buffed-villain attack. Dadaa and he is debuffed.

[Pie Guy]

I'll go with utilities.

[DrakebloodIV]

Round Over! Next up- Fluff

[Owrtho]

For ideas you could have them siphon energy off the surroundings to power other abilities (could start off with only willing targets to siphon from and at later levels force it sometimes). Then the other powers could focus on weakening targets.

Could also have them use illusions that incur penalties combine with terrain alteration. Just to mess with people.

Just a few thoughts for fluff.

Owrtho

[streakster]

Suggestion - Feng Shui master - can arrange the battlefield according to the power of Feng Shui.

[paddyfool]

Yep, they could be a power siphon, getting some boosts by drawing off arcane or divine effects from their opponent. I can't really see how that works with being a skillmonkey, though.

What might work better would be some kind of tactician, perhaps with plenty of Int-based abilities designed to make a fool of your enemy. Capable of crippling, blinding, nauseating, poisoning, silencing strikes etc; bonuses on knowledge checks to know about weaknesses, and having special abilities to subvert the opponent's immunities. Actually, a good tagline could be "I know your weakness". Skills would focus on the mobility-based ones, as well as all knowledge based skills, UMD & other more technical ones, and various other generally useful bits and bobs.

Alternatively, you could do an anti-Marshall; a character who somehow makes everything just go wrong for his opponents by the power of auras. It could double nicely with the power siphon, if that was one of the aura effects this class would have access to. But again, I'm not really sure how this would work with the character being a skillmonkey...

[Owrtho]

I think its sorta an odd combination with the power source: suroundings, skillmonkey, and debuffing. if it was without skillmonkey, they sould syphon as has been said. If it was without debuffing, they could do things like illusions which one book I remember had a bunch of that used the crafting skills, if it was without the power source: suroundings, they could just know enemies weaknesses through skills and thus penalize them.

Actualy, maby if instead of just, know your enemy, it was also, "know your surroundings" using the knowledge checks related to suroundings and the enemy and then being able to tacticaly use that knowledge (maby with some magical help), to catch the enemy off guard.

Owrtho

[DrakebloodIV]

I think it should be something along the lines of using skills to alter terrain and hinder enemies. So with the ropemaster that would be using his rope to attach grappling hooks to trees and trip up his enemies or using his zipline to help out when getting across things. Technically, his skills can still focus on using the environment because he acts using trees and such. I hope I can figure

[Owrtho]

You could try looking at the wisp fire guide in my sig. It focuses on using terrain and traps around the area to harm enemies to rather than having any particular directly offencive abilities, and it greatly relies on its skills (though I'm not sure if it would be a skillmonkey).

Owrtho

[Reptilius]

I vote the Feng Shui Master. But I don't really like the name. What that description reminds me of is the Geomancer job from various Final Fantasies, with the "arcane power based on current surroundings."

[Sereg]

I'll go with rope master.

[DrakebloodIV]

ITS NOT VOTING TIME YET, EVERYONE SHOULD BE THINKING UP NEW IDEAS. NOT BACKING ONES ALREADY MADE

[bue52]

Fung Sheui Master would be cool, though I think there should be a better name for it.

P.S. if you want to go with the romanization of chinese, then the correct spelling is Feng Shui.

EDIT: Oops sorry didn't notice the post before I posted. I'd like to suggest an "absorber" (Sorry can't come up with a better name) whereby he gains different powers based on the terrain he is on, these powers can then centre on debuffing the enemy and help boost skill checks or something like that?

[Pie Guy]

We could just go the simple elementalist route, and have control elements as a skill.