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afroakuma
2008-11-14, 11:23 PM
Okay, calling for a bit of special help here.

The contest I'm running on the Homebrew board has voted up an Ogre Mage Ninja, using my own Ninja class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94207). In a nutshell, the class excels at hiding in plain sight and sniping. Its core abilities are Dex and Wis, and it gains both bonuses to its AC while not wearing armor.

I have to prepare a CR 17 villain, which means 9 levels of ninja added to an Ogre Mage (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/ogreMage.htm) with a super elite array (16, 16, 15, 14, 13, 11). I'm assuming a budget for items equivalent to a level 17 character.

Can anyone help me optimize this character for supreme lethalness? Especially vis-a-vis magical item selection? I'm open to using the Magic Item Compendium if necessary, but I'd prefer to keep Core.

Iku Rex
2008-11-14, 11:41 PM
Step one: Declare the ninja levels to be "nonassociated"
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#nonassociatedClassLevels

You now have 14 ninja levels to play with. (First 10 are +1/2 CR each. Last four are +1 CR.)

(And IMO you should be using NPC wealth for a level 17 character, not PC wealth.)

Edit: I have no idea what I'm talking about. Sorry. Correct answer (?): First 5 levels are +1/2 CR, then the rest are +1 CR. So: Ogre mage (CR 8) + 5 levels ninja (+2.5) + 6 levels ninja (+6) = CR 16.5. CR 17 with equipment sounds about right, especially with an improved ability score. That means 11 ninja levels.

afroakuma
2008-11-14, 11:44 PM
Where would I find the NPC wealth guidelines?

Also: thank the gods (who are apparently named Iku Rex) for revealing this to me. This ninja's about to get a lot more dangerous. :smallbiggrin:

Quick question: So do I get five nonassociated levels for a 5 HD creature? Or only four? The wording was a bit vague.

monty
2008-11-14, 11:45 PM
Where would I find the NPC wealth guidelines?

DMG. Don't have it on hand, so I can't give you the page number, but I know it's in there.

afroakuma
2008-11-14, 11:55 PM
(First 10 are +1/2 CR each. Last four are +1 CR.)


Adding a nonassociated class level to a monster increases its CR by ½ per level until one of its nonassociated class levels equals its original Hit Dice. At that point, each additional level of the same class or a similar one is considered associated and increases the monster’s CR by 1.

Am I missing something? Is the limit based on total CR or total levels meeting HD?

Also, will the NPC wealth value make him too easy to trounce at CR 17? He is supposed to be a recurring villain.

Iku Rex
2008-11-14, 11:55 PM
Where would I find the NPC wealth guidelines?

DMG 127.
It's 100 000 gp at level 17.


Quick question: So do I get five nonassociated levels for a 5 HD creature? Or only four? The wording was a bit vague.There's an example in the MM not found in the SRD: "For example, frost giants have 14 HD. After you add 14 levels of sorcerer to a frost giant (and +7 to its CR), any further sorcerer class levels are considered associated. Adding one more sorcerer level increases this particular frost giant’s CR by 1."

afroakuma
2008-11-14, 11:57 PM
Awesome. This ramps up the difficulty factor in a very nice way.

Again, though: will 100 000 GP of gear be sufficient to outfit this guy to survive?

afroakuma
2008-11-15, 12:54 AM
Also: ideas on magic item selection?

afroakuma
2008-11-15, 08:42 AM
Okay, so I have a 14th level Ogre Mage Ninja now, which means two feats from Ogre Mage racial levels, one feat for 1st level and 4 for classes, as well as three level ability points to distribute. I also decided to give him (not out of the 100K GP) a manual of quickness of action +3 to raise his Dex score to something more respectable.

Any ideas on feat selection/magic item selection.

Devils_Advocate
2008-11-15, 07:48 PM
Step one: Declare the ninja levels to be "nonassociated"
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#nonassociatedClassLevels

You now have 14 ninja levels to play with. (First 10 are +1/2 CR each. Last four are +1 CR.)
No, only the first 5 ninja levels are + 1/2 CR. The last 9 are + 1 CR. So an ogre mage 14th level ninja would be CR 8 + 5/2 + 9 = CR 19.5. Plus at least 1/2 CR for improved stats and equipment, that gives CR 20.

Iku Rex
2008-11-16, 07:22 PM
No, only the first 5 ninja levels are + 1/2 CR. The last 9 are + 1 CR. So an ogre mage 14th level ninja would be CR 8 + 5/2 + 9 = CR 19.5. Yikes - you're right. My apologies to TS. :smallfrown: