Four Words

[phoamslinger]

I've noticed a couple threads about V being evil or making a deal with the devils. So your saying that V's four words say to the right person at the right time to achieve unlimited power will be?

"I accept your offer."

[RMS Oceanic]

These four words have been suggested repeatedly ever since Vaarsuvius' Enhanced Scrying.

I like to think the four words were "Disintegrate. Gust of wind." to Kubota/Elan, especially as it was for the wrong reason. It may not have immediately granted h** full power, but the resulting argument with Elan was the final straw, so V left and will now have h** own (impaired) judgement to deal with any offer Qaar makes.

[Jan Mattys]

I like to think we will very clearly notice when the four words will be pronounced... and I also think that the Giant will put 4-words sketches here and there to throw some dust in our eyes (for example, I'm pretty sure V's words when dealing with Qarr will either be "I accept your offer" or "I reject your offer" or anything else but in 4-words mode, just to tease us up a bit).

Also, I like to point out that the Oracle so far has been VERY direct in his answers. It wouldn't have referred to "Disintegrate-Gust of Wind" as four words directly granting ultimate power, because those four words didn't directly grant such a power. The Oracle doesn't refer to obscure causes for effects... the only time it used such a way to explain its own prophecy was with Belkar... and it was just a way to try and avoid his own death (which was VERY direct, and it was the fullfillment of the prophecy).

[Ron Miel]

I get the impression he was deliberately winding up Belkar in order to provoke Belkar into stabbing him. He wanted to set off the mark.

[[TS] Shadow]

"Disintegrate. Gust of wind" CAN'T be the four words.
Remember the exact words from the Oracle:
By saying the right four words at the right time to the right being for all the wrong reason. He wasn't saying "Disintegrate. Gust of wind" to anyone, he was just setting off his spell, and thus, the search for four worded phrases continues.

[Mauve Shirt]

Also, I like to point out that the Oracle so far has been VERY direct in his answers. It wouldn't have referred to "Disintegrate-Gust of Wind" as four words directly granting ultimate power, because those four words didn't directly grant such a power. The Oracle doesn't refer to obscure causes for effects... the only time it used such a way to explain its own prophecy was with Belkar... and it was just a way to try and avoid his own death (which was VERY direct, and it was the fullfillment of the prophecy).

"When a gift horse comes calling, don't look it in the mouth" wasn't very direct. It led to her getting her voice back, eventually. But it's not like she got her voice back just by going on a date with Nale.
I support the idea that "Disintegrate-Gust of Wind" were the four words said to the right being for the wrong reasons.

[Optimystik]

Also, I like to point out that the Oracle so far has been VERY direct in his answers.

Quite the opposite actually. His only direct answer was to Roy, and that was purposefully direct to mislead him. The amount of exposition he had to do for Haley and Belkar's answers proved their indirectness.

[factotum]

I support the idea that "Disintegrate-Gust of Wind" were the four words said to the right being for the wrong reasons.

As already stated, he did not say those words TO anybody. They're just what is said to indicate he's casting a spell. Even if you can somehow justify that V was actually saying "Disintegrate" to Kubota, it really becomes a stretch to assume that he is saying "Gust of Wind" to the disintegrated pile of dust that USED to be Kubota.

[evileeyore]

Quite the opposite actually. His only direct answer was to Roy, and that was purposefully direct to mislead him. The amount of exposition he had to do for Haley and Belkar's answers proved their indirectness.

The Oracle didn't have to do any exposition for Belkar's to come true, the Oracle choose to give exposition to try to avoid Belkar's future. I imagine that even if your extraordinarily sure your going to be brought back, getting stabbed to death is still not very pleasant.

[Linkavitch]

"I HATE THESE THREADS" will be it. (Okay, probably not, but still, whenever someone thinks of a new one, they don't need to post a new thread.)

[Warlord JK]

"Disintergrate. Gust of Wind."

Not the right words because they were not for all the wrong reasons. Yes, most of the wrong reasons but he said them to 2 beings for a partial good reason, as he assumed that this was a major villain who should be killed. The wrong reasons were because it was to avoid a trial.

[Zevox]

Quite the opposite actually. His only direct answer was to Roy, and that was purposefully direct to mislead him. The amount of exposition he had to do for Haley and Belkar's answers proved their indirectness.
Actually, I'd say you have that backwards. The only confusing/misleading ones were given to Haley and V. Just to summarize:

Durkon: He returns home posthumously. Hardly ambiguous - he won't return there until after his death. It's a direct answer that tells him exactly what he wanted to know.

Elan: He gets a happy ending. Nothing ambiguous there. Especially considering Elan's criteria for a happy ending has narrowed now that he and Haley are a couple.

Belkar: A simple "yes," which turned out to be very simple and literally true when he killed the Oracle. The Oracle's other answers were just his attempts at making Belkar think his prophecy had come true, and likely the Giant's way of making fun of all the fan theories about the matter, not the actual answers to his prophecy.

Roy: Answered directly, and the fact that it was misleading was Roy's own fault. The Oracle even tried to stop him from making his mistake, but Roy was too sure he knew what he was doing to listen. (Though ultimately, since the Order got stuck in Azure City during Xykon's attack anyway, this may work out to the group's advantage, since they know the next gate Xykon will go to now that Girard and Kraagor's are the only two left.)

Haley's "gift horse" and V's "four words" prophecies are the only ones that are particularly ambiguous. And V's is actually fairly informative in spite of it's ambiguity, since it tells us that A) she will acquire "complete and total ultimate arcane power" at some point in the future and that B) to do this she will say exactly four words to a particular being. We simply lack the context in which she will do it.

Zevox

[Warlord JK]

Actually, I'd say you have that backwards. The only confusing/misleading ones were given to Haley and V. Just to summarize:

Durkon: He returns home posthumously. Hardly ambiguous - he won't return there until after his death. It's a direct answer that tells him exactly what he wanted to know.

Elan: He gets a happy ending. Nothing ambiguous there. Especially considering Elan's criteria for a happy ending has narrowed now that he and Haley are a couple.

Belkar: A simple "yes," which turned out to be very simple and literally true when he killed the Oracle. The Oracle's other answers were just his attempts at making Belkar think his prophecy had come true, and likely the Giant's way of making fun of all the fan theories about the matter, not the actual answers to his prophecy.

Roy: Answered directly, and the fact that it was misleading was Roy's own fault. The Oracle even tried to stop him from making his mistake, but Roy was too sure he knew what he was doing to listen. (Though ultimately, since the Order got stuck in Azure City during Xykon's attack anyway, this may work out to the group's advantage, since they know the next gate Xykon will go to now that Girard and Kraagor's are the only two left.)

Haley's "gift horse" and V's "four words" prophecies are the only ones that are particularly ambiguous. And V's is actually fairly informative in spite of it's ambiguity, since it tells us that A) she will acquire "complete and total ultimate arcane power" at some point in the future and that B) to do this she will say exactly four words to a particular being. We simply lack the context in which she will do it.

Zevox

Haley's was really the only one that wasn't direct, as V's is only partly obscure because it does tell V how s/he will get ultimate arcane power. Haley's though is very obscure and uses a figurative phrase to say it.

[kossuth's_spark]

am i the only one who has noticed that there are about 20 threads about this very subject?

i vote "i'll kill you all!!!" or "You're useless to me!!!"

[Warlord JK]

am i the only one who has noticed that there are about 20 threads about this very subject?

i vote "i'll kill you all!!!" or "You're useless to me!!!"

No, but noone really cares as this gives all of us a chance to get our post counts up. :smallbiggrin:

[ikrase]

In the past we have heard, "one wish spell, please", and "IT'S OVER NINE THOUSAND!"

I suspect that V will get his power outside of the current story arc,

We have--Dungeon Trompin Fools
No Cure For the Paladin Blues
War and XP's
and whatever this is- Exhile from Azure City/ Haley attempts to Contact Durkon/whatever

We have three-act play. Almost direct paralels to Star Wars, which shows things very clearly for a three-act play

1-Major victory, characters introduced, basic precept, but long-reaching changes. Dungeon of Dorukan.
2-Scope widens immensely, and many new characters are added. (azurites). The actual struggle becomes clear (The Snarl), and characters change. Elan and Haley become a couple, Roy gets a girlfriend, and dies. Elan becomes competent. So far Elan has made his art change but nobody else has, and neither V nor Durkon has had anything dedicated to them. I expect Haley and Roy will change during/after they are reunited with the rest of the party, and a big defeat is in the second act
3-Multiple characters come into their own. A lot can change. Enemys will probably meet friends


Frankly I doubt V is evil or will become evil. We only think of him as neutral because he does not talk personally very much.

[Warlord JK]

In the past we have heard, "one wish spell, please", and "IT'S OVER NINE THOUSAND!"

I suspect that V will get his power outside of the current story arc,

We have--Dungeon Trompin Fools
No Cure For the Paladin Blues
War and XP's
and whatever this is- Exhile from Azure City/ Haley attempts to Contact Durkon/whatever

We have three-act play. Almost direct paralels to Star Wars, which shows things very clearly for a three-act play

1-Major victory, characters introduced, basic precept, but long-reaching changes. Dungeon of Dorukan.
2-Scope widens immensely, and many new characters are added. (azurites). The actual struggle becomes clear (The Snarl), and characters change. Elan and Haley become a couple, Roy gets a girlfriend, and dies. Elan becomes competent. So far Elan has made his art change but nobody else has, and neither V nor Durkon has had anything dedicated to them. I expect Haley and Roy will change during/after they are reunited with the rest of the party, and a big defeat is in the second act
3-Multiple characters come into their own. A lot can change. Enemys will probably meet friends


Frankly I doubt V is evil or will become evil. We only think of him as neutral because he does not talk personally very much.

How is OotS a 3 part story? We're already one book #4.

[Flame of Anor]

Look, people, this thread--and all V's Four Words speculation threads--are kind of pointless. Their two purposes are 1) to propose that it's already happened and 2) to guess what it will be. Now, #1 is silly. Take it from me, WE WILL KNOW when :vaarsuvius: achieves ultimate arcane power. S/he will have a near-immediate CMOA or I miss my guess by as wide as :redcloak:'s character is deep, by as far as :miko: is infuriating. #2 is slightly less pointless, but still, really, we will never guess it. It's just going to be something that we'll see it and think, "Oh! So that was it! I never would have guessed that!"

Not that I'm just trying to get more people to play my Firefly/Serenity Heal/Hurt (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96581) or anything... :smalltongue:

[Optimystik]

Belkar: A simple "yes," which turned out to be very simple and literally true when he killed the Oracle. The Oracle's other answers were just his attempts at making Belkar think his prophecy had come true, and likely the Giant's way of making fun of all the fan theories about the matter, not the actual answers to his prophecy.

That "yes" could have referred to one of Belkar's targets, a combination, or all at once. The direct answer would have made it apply to all, in this manner:

Waitress: Chicken or fish?
Customer: Yes.

The fact that he didn't elaborate made it ambiguous. And it certainly hasn't applied to either Vaarsuvius (as of yet) or Miko's horse (which it never will at this point.) So I deem Belkar's propehcy indirect as well, however accurate it may have been on interpretation.

[evileeyore]

How is OotS a 3 part story? We're already one book #4.

I recomend researching what the term "three act play" means.

Beyond the fact that ikrase spelled it out in the post... sigh.

[Zevox]

That "yes" could have referred to one of Belkar's targets, a combination, or all at once. The direct answer would have made it apply to all, in this manner:

Waitress: Chicken or fish?
Customer: Yes.

The fact that he didn't elaborate made it ambiguous. And it certainly hasn't applied to either Vaarsuvius (as of yet) or Miko's horse (which it never will at this point.) So I deem Belkar's propehcy indirect as well, however accurate it may have been on interpretation.
I still have to disagree - Belkar's question was quite different from your "chicken or fish" example. In that one, the customer is asked to pick one; thus "yes" is not a direct, or even valid, answer. In Belkar's case, he simply asked if he would get to kill at least one of five possible beings. "Yes" is a direct answer to that question; it tells him that he will kill at least one of them, which is what he asked. That it doesn't tell him which of those five he will kill doesn't make it ambiguous, just not as complete as Belkar would have liked.

Zevox

[B.I.T.T.]

I honestly believe that "Disintigrate. Gust of Wind." were the four words.

Point 1: They were said "to" Kubota. Now one may argue that those words were just him casting a spell, but the spell itself was cast at Kubota, so it could be said that it was said to Kubota in the same way that it could be said that Belkar caused Roy's death.

Point 2: Kubota was the, arguably speaking, the right person to distinigrate. Even Elan couldn't dispute that fact. In fact until he surrendered, Elan was going to kill Kubota himself, why he didn't is a subject of another thread.

Point 3: It was the right time. Kubota had just revealed that he was going to use his considerable political sway to get off scott free after a trail that could have lasted months and months of time that the OotS just don't have. In a matter of speaking then (which for these prophesies appears to be enough) the moment he revealed that his surrender was a farce was the right moment to take the law into your own hands (again...arguably).

Point 4: It was for all the wrong reasons. This is a tricky one to explain, because what exactly is the right or wrong. Sure there are some absolute evils, i.e. killing a gnome for no particular reason, destroying a planet because it's in the way of a HyperSpace Bypass, etc. But "right reason" vs. "wrong reason" here are less definite. The destruction of Kubota may seem like a "right" choice, but the fact is that V didn't even bother trying to learn the facts of the situation before acting. He could have taken just a few seconds to find out just who this guy was and what he was doing before acting, but he simply jumped to conclusions and killed him immediately, because he was threatening to become a distraction.

So that's my point-by-point explanation of my opinion. You all, of course, can rebut these points, but I may be far too lazy to actually read the replies, just to give you a fore-warning.

[David Argall]

Haley's was really the only one that wasn't direct, as V's is only partly obscure because it does tell V how s/he will get ultimate arcane power. Haley's though is very obscure and uses a figurative phrase to say it.

But it seems that nobody offered an alternate idea of what the phrase meant, and when Nale offered a date, people jumped on the idea right away. By prophecy standards, that is quite direct. Your proper obscure prophecy has a dozen possible meanings and the actual meaning is not at all direct. It is not at all unusual for it to mean the opposite of what it seems.

[Dogmantra]

Look guys, it's obvious, V's four words are going to be "I am a (fe)male"

Or maybe "I am your father" to Pompey...

[Kaytara]

I don't believe "Disintegrate. Gust of Wind." were the four words. While I find the arguments in this thread rather convincing, we must consider that V's erratic behaviour has only been steadily escalating since the battle. Therefore, it would be reasonable to assume that the epic four words moment will crown the climax of this character arc rather than precede it.
Just think about it. A dramatic moment of choices and decisions, ultimate arcane power comes up... Which of these is more dramatic and poignant and thus more likely to occur:
a) *THE FOUR FRICKING WORDS*!!! *dun-dun-DUNNN*
b) Meh, guess what? V already said them.

As I said, those four words should be a very poignant moment of drama, so explaining how and why they've already been said, a-la-Oracle, would be pretty lame.

[Istari]

Madness? I am Vaarsuvius!!!

What it fits