Anyone played Master of Magic?

[Copper8642]

So I found it. Then I tried to play it. Then I found DosBox. Then I managed to play it. Great fun. So now I'm wondering if anyone has played (or rarer yet, still plays) this old DOS game from the late 80s.

Favorite races, spells, wizards, strategies, memories, anything there might be to say by the few who have anything to say to begin with, it's all fair game here.

I would totally try to think of a way to RP this in the boards if enough people have heard of it.

[Sugarmouse]

Heh.

I remember playing Master of Magic on the Commodore 64. Now that was pure gold...

Never played the DOS version, unfortunately.

[kkortekaas]

Yeah Masters of Magic ranks as one of my all time favs...

I used to alternate between MOO and MOM...

[Krrth]

Loved it. I miss it greatly, but it simply doesn't work on my computer anymore.

[JMobius]

It was great fun. I still play it now and again. Balance to that game is screwy as hell...

[Texas Jedi]

I love it and still play it. That and Master(s?) of Orion are among my favorite games of all time.

I love playing the High Men for one simple reason.......Paladins. In early versions they are the most overpowered units in the game by far. They were hit fiercely by the nerf bat in later editions.

They are immune to almost everything debuff wise, and are very fast and hit very hard.

I would usually play the game as the high men and then select the power to get you to start in the Mirror World (MW). Then I would completely take over the MW and then unleash my minions unto the Normal World (NW). I would stack 9 paladins deep at every entry point to the MW and just slowly take over the MW from safety. I have never lost a city that way.

I choose the MW for many reasons. None of the other characters start from it. You can build huge empire and not worry about loosing important items to your enemies. You just need to defend the towers that allow access to your world. Second, when you build roads they are already enchanted so movement doesn't decrease on them. Third, Draconians they are a race that doesn't have many good units but they can all fly. They make some excellent scouts for you. Fourth, and most important of all Adamantium weapons, they give you a +2 to hit, +2 to damage from any unit built in a city near an adamantium mine. Combine this with the ludicrously overpowered Paladin and you have force that can't be beaten by anything short of the most powerful units in the game.

[Krrth]

I love it and still play it. That and Master(s?) of Orion are among my favorite games of all time.

I love playing the High Men for one simple reason.......Paladins. In early versions they are the most overpowered units in the game by far. They were hit feircly by the nerf bat in later editions.

They are immune to almost everything debuff wise, and are very fast and hit very hard.

I would usually play the game as the high men and then select the power to get you to start in the Mirror World (MW). Then I would completely take over the MW and then unleash my minions unto the Normal World (NW). I would stack 9 paladins deep at every entry point to the MW and just slowly take over the MW from safety. I have never lost a city that way.

I choose the MW for many reasons. None of the other characters start from it. You can build huge empire and not worry about loosing important items to your enemies. You just need to defend the towers that allow access to your world. Second, when you build roads they are already enchanted so movement doesn't decrease on them. Third, Draconians they are a race that doesn't have many good units but they can all fly. They make some excellent scouts for you. Fourth, and most important of all Adamantium weapons, they give you a +2 to hit, +2 to damage from any unit built in a city near an adamantium mine. Combine this with the ludicrously overpowered Paladin and you have force that can't be beaten by anything short of the most powerful units in the game.

Actually, I seem to recall that at least two other people start in it...The Draconians and the Dark Elves.

[JMobius]

I think he means other Wizards. There's only one that did, the Chaos/Life guy.

[Krrth]

I think he means other Wizards. There's only one that did, the Chaos/Life guy.

Could be, it's been several years since I played. I know I have memories of running into opponents that started there, though.

[Texas Jedi]

Yeah I meant wizards. There are several races that are only in the Mirror World. Trolls, Draconians, Dark Elves, and a few others.

[Fishman]

I choose the MW for many reasons. None of the other characters start from it. You can build huge empire and not worry about loosing important items to your enemies. You just need to defend the towers that allow access to your world. Second, when you build roads they are already enchanted so movement doesn't decrease on them. Third, Draconians they are a race that doesn't have many good units but they can all fly. They make some excellent scouts for you. Fourth, and most important of all Adamantium weapons, they give you a +2 to hit, +2 to damage from any unit built in a city near an adamantium mine. Combine this with the ludicrously overpowered Paladin and you have force that can't be beaten by anything short of the most powerful units in the game.
Pssh, Paladins. Paladins are no match for my INVISIBLE FLYING WARSHIPS and UNENDING HORDE OF SKY DRAKES. Between Invisible Flying Warships and Unlimited Free Sky Drakes, there is absolutely nothing that can stop me. Because anything you have is still less than infinite sky drakes. Not only are the sky drakes individually impressive on their own, I have an unlimited number of them. For free. They are supported in battle by free air elementals and phantoms, that I can summon one per turn. Also for free. And, of course, the Invisible Flying Warships, which can rip apart just about anything that Infinite Sky Drakes haven't. Which is basically nothing. GRAHR! Not even the mightiest heroes can stand before the power of UNLIMITED KAMIKAZE SKY DRAKES. Resistance is useless! Just remember, the upkeep on those things is murderous. Disband them immediately before ending the turn. It's not like you don't have an infinite number of them on demand.

[RPGuru1331]

Hm, this seems pretty neat. Gonna go about acquiring this. It's too old to really buy, I imagine.

..Wait, with this kind of age, and from Microprose.. it has Feely based Copy Protection, don't it?

[Krrth]

Hm, this seems pretty neat. Gonna go about acquiring this.
I think you'll enjoy it, I've just never been able to get it to work with Vista. Stardock is making a game similar to it, due out late next year.

[Texas Jedi]

Hm, this seems pretty neat. Gonna go about acquiring this. It's too old to really buy, I imagine.

..Wait, with this kind of age, and from Microprose.. it has Feely based Copy Protection, don't it?

If I remember correctly Masters of Orion required you to look up a certain word in the manual.

Masters of Magic might have been similar. I don't really know because I have downloaded both of them. I have the original floppy disks, but I don't have any floppy disk drive to play them on.

[Driderman]

I'm pretty sure Master Of Magic is in the grey zone of copyrights. You can get it from Abandonia and several other abandonware sites.

My favourite races would have to be High Men or the Dark Elves. Almost all dark elf troops have a magic ranged attack which is pretty awesome and their warlocks Doombolt ability is very effective against most enemies.
High Men have Paladins, as mentioned above.

Elves are also pretty good, good bows and Elven Lords are pretty neat as well.
In reality though, most of the races are pretty good as long as you know how to use your spells. Winged, firebreathing Chaos-halflings are pretty funny, for instance.

Choice of spellbooks: I usually choose at least 2 different types of magic. Life, Death and Chaos are all very nice, but the terraforming effects of Nature magic or the summoning buff/debuff spells of sorcery are great as well.
My own favourite magic is probably Chaos and Death though, Chaos for its attack spells and summons, Death for summons and buffs. Ghouls are a gret starting unit, as they will give you cheap throwaway troops through the units they kill

[Copper8642]

If you download it from Abandonia, then download DosBOX and read the tutorial, you should be set to go.

Also, you used to be able to be the only person on Myrror if you chose the Myrran trait and the draconian picture. But the patched changed it.

None of the races do I particularly dislike. Even Lizardmen and Klackons had a nice theme to them in my head when I thought about it. Favorites are probably Barbarians, Dark Elves, or Hobbits. Dwarves are also really fun, but the units aren't varied enough.

Barbarians grow so fast and they're rather cool looking (for being small pixels).

Dark Elves have ranged attacks even on their basic units, and their population are free mana!

Hobbits, when given the Warlord trait, Alchemy trait, and I usually throw Life magic on top of that, can be BRUTAL KILLERS. They get a bonus to hit due to being Lucky, one for Alchemical magic weapons, and their strength loss is negated by Warlord, but they keep the 8 men to a unit. Their defense is also ridiculous. The massive food production helps my armies grow large. And finally, they inspire little unrest in conquered races, so I can easily gather a diverse group of races under my command!

[Texas Jedi]

I guess I never was much into enchanting units. I just used all of my magic to make my heroes stronger. I would enchant weapons for them.

[LiteYear]

Hobbits, when given the Warlord trait, Alchemy trait, and I usually throw Life magic on top of that, can be BRUTAL KILLERS. They get a bonus to hit due to being Lucky, one for Alchemical magic weapons, and their strength loss is negated by Warlord, but they keep the 8 men to a unit. Their defense is also ridiculous. The massive food production helps my armies grow large. And finally, they inspire little unrest in conquered races, so I can easily gather a diverse group of races under my command!

Yeah, Halflings (particularly their slingers) are sickening with Life magic support and the warlord trait. The strategy is to find a city with Adamantium (Mithril, if you can't find Adamantium fast enough), enchant that City with an Altar of Battle, and now one of your most basic units is now strong enough to take on some of the more elite units in the game. And you can still enchant them further (Eldritch Weapon is great if you can get access to it).

[Copper8642]

So, do you think I could get enough interest in a Freeform RP?

[Fishman]

I continue to maintain that the Invisible Flying Warship is superior to all other units.
1. They have a ranged attack with functionally unlimited ammo (99 rounds, so you can fire for the entire battle even hasted).
2. They are invisible, so most other units cannot retaliate against them. Strategically, enemies don't even know anything is there.
3. They are flying, so melee-only units cannot hit them at all.
4. They are warships, which means they have naval-grade move and thus can outrun all standard land-based units.
5. ROCKS FALL, EVERYONE DIES.

It is, of course, a known fact that anytime you have a ranged attack, superior movement, and no ammo constraints, you automatically win.

If the ability to start out with invisible flying warships is not enough POWER, Sorcery also grants a whole host of other sick bonii:
1. Enchanted Roads: Don't need Myrran, AND can build a massive interlinked transplanar road network, often even transcontinental with the planeshift ocean building trick, allowing your units to reach ANY point in your empire and STILL ATTACK in a single turn.
2. Massive sorcery discounts, only need to find a goodybook to get FREE CASTING, meaning you can now use point 1 to swamp anything within dragonflight of your empire in an unlimited swarm of sky drakes. There is nothing in the game that can withstand that. It is automatic win. And fast: Since you don't care how efficiently the battle is fought, you can just auto-resolve all the sky drakes: You don't care if you lose some or all of them, you were going to disband them and spam more anyway. FOR THE HORDE!

[LiteYear]

How do you get free casting? I know you can reduce cost, but I don't remember reading a way to get it to free. (Although, I don't deny Sorcery's power)

[RPGuru1331]

Well, this is pretty fun. The magic and item creation setups make me a sad panda compared to other games, but it is still a very entertaining game. It took me a bit to figure out how building a city works too. Digging it so far, but I hear the AI is atrocious.

Also, is there something that'll list the units? I have trouble rememberring what does what.

[tyckspoon]

Hmm. My favorite tactics:
Halflings. Doesn't really matter what magic/skills focus you use here, experienced Halfling Slingers with mithril or adamantium weapons can gun down almost anything. The Life/Warlord combo is probably most effective.

Heavy Chaos magic. Race is almost immaterial; you use Hellhounds for your early-game scouts and den-clearing (make sure they attack first; Fire Breath doesn't work when they're the defending unit) and in the late game you blow up everything you run into with lightning bolts, fireballs, and waves of lava.

Werewolf Halflings: The Death Magic spell Lycanthropy converts a unit to werewolves- Weapon Immune Regenerating critters with a pretty good attack. It doesn't matter what the base unit was, the werewolves will have the same stats. Halfling basic units are cheap and come in stacks of eight instead of the more typical six- make a bunch, turn them into werewolves, let them loose on the world. Since they regenerate, you won't ever actually lose them unless you lose a fight completely.

Nature + whatever: Not as overwhelmingly game-breaking as some of the other stuff, but Nature magic still has some very useful things. Web is a wonderful spell for locking down an enemy you'd rather not deal with immediately, like enemy archers (Warp Wood can also take care of them.) It also has the fun side-effect of removing the Flight ability from the Webbed unit, so after you Web something you can send your melee units in to beat it up normally. Sprites are a very good early-game summon, thanks to being flyers. If you're patient, you can use them to take out almost any low-tier monster in an attrition approach (get close, fire off their ranged attacks, then hold down Space to pass turns until you hit the timer and the fight automatically ends. As long as you can take down at least one enemy stack per fight, you're making progress.) Crack's Call is just cheating- it's got around a 1/4 chance to automatically destroy anything on the ground. Web down that enemy hero or big scary Node guardian and spam Crack's until it's gone.. and remember, Web puts everything on the ground.

[Harp]

It's a fun game that offers a lot of replay value thanks to all the different strategies you can employ. I highly recommend it, and I'm thinking about booting it up again tomarrow on my day off.

[Smight]

I think you'll enjoy it, I've just never been able to get it to work with Vista. Stardock is making a game similar to it, due out late next year.
it works in Vista with DOS box .

[hajo]

Masters of Orion required you to look up a certain word in the manual.
Not quite words: MoO1 had names and pictures of shipdesigns scattered thru the manual, and after about a dozen turns, you got a question.

As those ships were actually used in the game, after a bit of playing you had them learned and mostly didn't need the manual to look them up :smallcool:

[Krrth]

it works in Vista with DOS box .
Yeah, I finally got the thing to work last night. Loads of fun...I forgot how useful artificer was.

[Cespenar]

I used to use a tactic in which I chose Life magic + a random race, then play defensive until I got the spell that summons the best hero in the game (forgot the name). Then, I would stack him up with the best artifacts I could forge and make him singlehandedly smack everyone around.

That was until I discovered the dwarven high-end unit, the Hammerhands. :smallbiggrin:

[RPGuru1331]

Okay, this is starting to Bling my Blong. Every time I retreat, I lose every part of the attacking force, and I have to launch attacks on dens and nodes utterly blind. Is there something I can do to at least get an idea of the enemy's numbers?

[SKarious]

Ah yes. Torin the Chosen One. Give him a few levels and the only thing he is immune to everything except Sky Drakes.
If you choose 11 spellbooks and no special abilities, you can have a rare spell, meaning you don't have to wait and research the Torin summon.

As for a funstrategy, I like choosing deep Death (11) for Summon Wraith, summoning legions of them and sending those to wreak havoc on the entire world. they can pass walls, are nearly immune to normal weapons and heal themselves when they do damage. :smallwink:

[Poison_Fish]

Since you all mentioned Masters of Orion, I am now a sad panda.

So much sadness over MoOIII.

[Texas Jedi]

Since you all mentioned Masters of Orion, I am now a sad panda.

So much sadness over MoOIII.

I loved both games. I really couldn't get into MoOII. It was way to indepth, and I guess I was stupid because the computer always kicked my butt even on the easiest settings.

Back on topic has anybody played Age of Wonders. It is similar to Master of Magic only with better graphics?

[JMobius]

Back on topic has anybody played Age of Wonders. It is similar to Master of Magic only with better graphics?

I'm a big fan of the Age of Wonders series. It certainly had less emphasis on magic than MoM did, and felt considerably more hero-focused (which is somehow impressive...). Had lots of fun with that game back in the day.

[tyckspoon]

Okay, this is starting to Bling my Blong. Every time I retreat, I lose every part of the attacking force, and I have to launch attacks on dens and nodes utterly blind. Is there something I can do to at least get an idea of the enemy's numbers?

Disposable summons. Depending on what magic type you chose, you can use Sprites, Hellhounds, or Skeletons as scouts. If nothing else serves, a Magic Spirit works pretty well too. Sometimes better, since they have the innate ability to move two spaces on the overworld map.

[Cespenar]

I loved both games. I really couldn't get into MoOII. It was way to indepth, and I guess I was stupid because the computer always kicked my butt even on the easiest settings.

Back on topic has anybody played Age of Wonders. It is similar to Master of Magic only with better graphics?

While Age of Wonders is pretty good on its own, it's more like it resembles the Heroes series, while MoM has a Civilization feeling in it (being mission-based vs. world-based). I personally enjoy MoM more since its scope is greater, and depends more on careful planning. It's just a taste though.

P.S. AoW: Shadow Magic is great too. I love sequels that actually are better. It feels right.

[The Valiant Turtle]

There is a game coming out that is largely being designed as an unofficial sequal:

http://www.stardock.com/coming_soon/?product=Elemental

From what I understand they couldn't get the license for an official MoM sequel, but it's absolutely what they are targetting. Until they released the name it was actually being referred to as not-MoM.

I may have to pre-order that to get in on the beta testing. MoM is easily #1 on my list of games that really need a sequal, and Stardock's track record is pretty good so far.

[Copper8642]

Ok, so flying invisible Warships and unlimited Sky Drakes is the best strategy. But its also gamebreaking. Especially the unlimited Sky Drake thing. I try not to overtly crush the game.

[KillianHawkeye]

Man, I used to play this game all the time. I played every magic type and every race at some point, but I think I was usually one of the monsterous races (draconians, lizardmen, klackons). I used to dominate even on 'Impossible' difficulty, at least on the DOS version.

I hate that the Windows patch altered the AI to make the game unplayable! I mean, Wizards who invaded from other continents early in the game? Even when I had to resort to hiding by myself on the dark plane? They used to not come there at all. Heck, I even had my home city destroyed by NEUTRAL UNITS while I had my first 2 guys scouting my territory! I couldn't even win on the easiest setting anymore! WTF??!?!

[Fishman]

How do you get free casting? I know you can reduce cost, but I don't remember reading a way to get it to free. (Although, I don't deny Sorcery's power)
If you get I think either books and/or the "Conjurer" bonus from a ruin, your casting cost for summons drops to zip. This means you can summon monsters on and off the battlefield for nothing. Even the weakest unit becomes a force of destruction when backed by a horde of free-spawned phantom monsters and air elementals, and if the enemy fails to kill it in a round, you spawn a second one, resulting in the odds getting increasingly more awful. Even if he DOES kill it, he will have expended his moves and likely taken damage from the effort, and you just raise another one. Fast scouting units are also adept at staying out of the attacker's reach, so you can just keep spamming.

And that's not even including all the perks like the Invisible Flying Warships and Instant Transit Network. While other schools have a few good spells here and there, sorcery is just a grab bag of awesomeness.

Other magic paths can get freesummons as well the same way, but they are simply not as awesome alone and hybridizing renders you too vulnerable to the vagaries of being jacked by the random start selection. Play pure blue, and you KNOW what you can rely on.

[RPGuru1331]

While Age of Wonders is pretty good on its own, it's more like it resembles the Heroes series, while MoM has a Civilization feeling in it (being mission-based vs. world-based). I personally enjoy MoM more since its scope is greater, and depends more on careful planning. It's just a taste though.

P.S. AoW: Shadow Magic is great too. I love sequels that actually are better. It feels right.

Is Age of Wonders the one who's campaign had that Giacomo guy out to kill a Doge of some sort?


Disposable summons. Depending on what magic type you chose, you can use Sprites, Hellhounds, or Skeletons as scouts. If nothing else serves, a Magic Spirit works pretty well too. Sometimes better, since they have the innate ability to move two spaces on the overworld map.
So Magic Spirits as Zergling scouts? That makes sense. They're so cheap!

[tyckspoon]

So Magic Spirits as Zergling scouts? That makes sense. They're so cheap!

Yeah, same idea, although you generally won't achieve much by trying to amass Magic Spirits for attacking people (hmm.. note to self: try to make that work.) You can get a kind of quick-start boost with Magic Spirits if you're playing Life, however; hit them with the Endurance buff on the overworld and they can scout out four squares a turn. With a bit of luck you can find a decent number of empty dens and gather some cash/mana/spells/artifacts. One of the luckiest games I ever played involved getting a computer Wizard to trade me an end-game summon spell (the Chaos one for the red dragon, IIRC) and shortly thereafter acquiring a valuable artifact in a weak or empty monster den. I broke it down into mana, spent thirty turns summoning, and had a game-ending monster while everybody else was still playing with maybe second-tier troops.

The Magic Spirit thing reminds me of another effective Life tactic, which I think is a lot more fun and can be done a lot earlier than the standby 'Summon Torin-->Win'. Buffed Guardian Spirits- summon up one of these advanced Magic Spirits. Hit it with every applicable buffing spell you have; Endurance, Holy Armor, Lionheart, whatever (I don't remember which of these can actually be cast on a summon unit.) It covers four spaces per turn and it's tough enough to take out most low and mid-level dens and nodes, as well as the AI cities that are typically only defended by spearmen or swordsmen. Easily a game winner if you get one running soon enough (or even if it's a bit late- send it out to capture/loot a bunch of the AI's poorly-defended satellite cities.)

[DrunkMonkGar]

Is Age of Wonders the one who's campaign had that Giacomo guy out to kill a Doge of some sort?

That was Rise Of Legends. Unfortunately I've never even seen Age of Wonders, so I can't help there.

Though if you're still looking for a unit list you can download the manual (http://www.replacementdocs.com/download.php?view.641) and spell book (http://www.replacementdocs.com/download.php?view.642) at the provided links.

[streakster]

Oh for the love of....

PEOPLE! I had work to do! What am I supposed to do now? Stop making me want MoM matches, darn it!

If that elemental game is any good, I might just as well quit pretending to get work done.

EDIT: My favorite strategy is chaos + the volcano spell. Let it run, then use your massive mana to conquer the now ruined world.

[Cespenar]

Though I detest cheats or bugs of any kind, especially in a game I like so much, I ask out of curiosity, what are those Invisible Warships and Unlimited Sky Drakes things you are talking about?

[Martok]

I think you'll enjoy it, I've just never been able to get it to work with Vista. Stardock is making a game similar to it, due out late next year.

Elemental: War of Magic (http://www.elementalgame.com/)


I am so very much looking forward to this game. :smallbiggrin:

[RPGuru1331]

Man, I used to play this game all the time. I played every magic type and every race at some point, but I think I was usually one of the monsterous races (draconians, lizardmen, klackons). I used to dominate even on 'Impossible' difficulty, at least on the DOS version.

I hate that the Windows patch altered the AI to make the game unplayable! I mean, Wizards who invaded from other continents early in the game? Even when I had to resort to hiding by myself on the dark plane? They used to not come there at all. Heck, I even had my home city destroyed by NEUTRAL UNITS while I had my first 2 guys scouting my territory! I couldn't even win on the easiest setting anymore! WTF??!?!

It sounds more like you're just used to the easy computer then the AI itself is really unplayable, to be honest. And although I'm having trouble enough learning this as is, I think I'm going to get this patch..


Though if you're still looking for a unit list you can download the manual and spell book at the provided links.
Fantastic. Thanks a bunch. This'll be pretty useful for my learning. I hope the manual is as explanatory as Dominions'.

[tyckspoon]

Though I detest cheats or bugs of any kind, especially in a game I like so much, I ask out of curiosity, what are those Invisible Warships and Unlimited Sky Drakes things you are talking about?

Flying Invisible Warships isn't a cheat, although there's probably some game-engine oddities about taking what is normally an ocean-only unit and deploying it over land.. but then you might not be able to sort them out from the ones involving Flying and Invisible units. You just build a Warship and then cast Flight and Invisibility on it. Flight lets it move and fight over land instead of being restricted to the water, and makes it untouchable by anything that doesn't have a ranged attack (most melee units. Breath, Gaze, and Thrown Weapon attacks can still hit it.) Invisibility makes the Warship be almost completely ignored by anything that doesn't see through illusion. Between the two, almost every unit in the game will just stand exactly where they started the fight and wait for you to do whatever you want. Flight + Invisibility is a very powerful spell combination; its benefits aren't at all restricted to Warships, you get good results from using it on any reasonably decent unit. It's just.. you know, armadas of invisible airships are awesome.

[JMobius]

Well, Elemental is preordered. Can't miss out on that one. :smallbiggrin:

[RPGuru1331]

So.. why Battleships, instead of some other unit?

Also, mechanics question: Specials like Thrown and Fire Breath; They're like an extra attack that is done at the value listed, right? Like, Fire Breath 3 is as good as a 3 sword melee attack, and is on top of your melee attack?

And if that's true, doesn't that make Spearmen more effective then Swordsmen for Draconians and Barbarians?

[tyckspoon]

Battleships are because they have a higher base movement rate than pretty much anything else in the game (well-equipped heroes and some of the Dragons may be faster), they have a decently potent ranged attack, and they have functionally unlimited ammo for said attack. So they can kite anything that can actually see and/or hit them, and if nothing on the field can attack them they can just pull up close and lob rocks until the enemy dies or the turn limit comes up.

On special attack abilities: Generally, yes. There are some bugs where certain abilities have their modifiers applied backwards, usually in the instant-kill powers- a Chaos Spawn's multiple gaze attacks are supposed to give a penalty to resist, but actually give +(listed value) to save against them, for example. Makes them a lot less useful. Thrown Weapons and Breath Attacks do work correctly, however.

Other stuff that's nice to know about those special attacks: They happen before the normal melee calculation where the stacks trade blows. If you're lucky/strong enough, you can take out the opponent before they ever get to swing. This happens fairly often with experienced/buffed/special-weapon carrying Berserkers, and almost all the time with Sky and Great Dragons.

They *don't* happen when you're defending. Those particular abilities only go off when the stack initiates the combat, so it's very important to make the enemy come to you rather than running up against them. This is why a pack of Hellhounds can make a very effective first-strike team, but will get chewed up rather badly in return if they left too many enemy figures standing.

[LiteYear]

If you get I think either books and/or the "Conjurer" bonus from a ruin, your casting cost for summons drops to zip. This means you can summon monsters on and off the battlefield for nothing. Even the weakest unit becomes a force of destruction when backed by a horde of free-spawned phantom monsters and air elementals, and if the enemy fails to kill it in a round, you spawn a second one, resulting in the odds getting increasingly more awful. Even if he DOES kill it, he will have expended his moves and likely taken damage from the effort, and you just raise another one. Fast scouting units are also adept at staying out of the attacker's reach, so you can just keep spamming.

I can see a significant cost reduction, but I can't see them coming free. According to the manual, each spellbook above 7 is 10% off casting costs, and conjurer is 25% off. Without external picks, that will be a 65% reduction (assuming they stack). Even with external picks, it'll be very hard to get a 100% reduction.

Although, this is all moot, because if you're playing sorcery, you have Time Stop, and you do win when you get that spell off.

[RPGuru1331]

I see. What about multiplayer? I heard that's how you have to get your kicks, but I don't see how I do it.

[LiteYear]

I remember seeing a hotseat multi-player patch out there.

[RPGuru1331]

Hot Seat? Ow, I wanted to play on the net..

Also, what am I supposed to do about the highest tiers of units? Veteran Adamantium equipped Doom Drakes couldn't really touch them. I could have summoned Death Knights, but I wouldn't think that would have to be my first fallback..

Also, this game has drunk deep of the cup of DOOMY DOOMS of DOOM. Doombats, Doom Drakes, I've seen a Doom Wyrm, I think, and one of my cities is Doom Castle..

[tyckspoon]

Also, what am I supposed to do about the highest tiers of units? Veteran Adamantium equipped Doom Drakes couldn't really touch them. I could have summoned Death Knights, but I wouldn't think that would have to be my first fallback..

Also, this game has drunk deep of the cup of DOOMY DOOMS of DOOM. Doombats, Doom Drakes, I've seen a Doom Wyrm, I think, and one of my cities is Doom Castle..

You have three basic options.
1: Whomp them with magic. This is the preferred approach for Chaos picks; it doesn't really matter what you bring to the fight, you're just going to win by blowing up the opposing side in two or three casts. Unless they're Magic Immune, like those cheating paladins. For Death Magic, you're looking at debuffing the enemy to get your edge- the most potent is Black Sleep, which prevents the victim unit from doing anything and causes it to auto-fail its defense rolls.

2. Beat them up with other high-class units. Note that the game is not at all balanced- your 'high tier' units don't really compare to things like Paladins, Berserkers, Hammerhands, or even Halfling Slingers. Your best approach for getting some really potent units is to either capture another race and borrow theirs or summon them. Your combination seems to be Draconians + Death Magic; for that group, your overall plan should be to try and expand early with your race's better mobility and stronger early units, then either whomp stuff with Death magic's good summons or use a captured city's power units. A lot of people like Wraiths; I favor Shadow Demons. Regeneration, Flight, a good ranged attack, and innate plane-shifting. (tl;dr- go ahead and summon the Death Knights.)

3. Smack them around with a hero. Leveled and well-equipped heroes are the strongest units in the game and can fairly safely solo about 80% of fights. The remaining 20% are other final-tier summon creatures like Sky Dragons and anybody who knows Crack's Call.

(Option 1a that you don't have because you probably don't have Nature magic: cast Crack's Call until it works.)

[RPGuru1331]

So the idea with draconians is, in a sense, rush to stables and Doom Drakes or pump out a bunch of Swordsmen or Halberdiers and snatch up Ogre or Beastman or whatnot cities, then start to build Draconian cities as infrastructure, since they get most of the list of crap to build?

[Driderman]

There's a multiplayer shell of some sort. I'm pretty sure I have it on my computer actually, but I've never tried it

[Fishman]

I can see a significant cost reduction, but I can't see them coming free. According to the manual, each spellbook above 7 is 10% off casting costs, and conjurer is 25% off. Without external picks, that will be a 65% reduction (assuming they stack). Even with external picks, it'll be very hard to get a 100% reduction.You start with level 11, you can find up to level 13 by plundering ruins (-60%), and find Conjurer (-25%) and Sorcery Mastery (-15%), for a total of -100% off Sorcery Summons (Cheap as Free!).


I remember seeing a hotseat multi-player patch out there.It exists, but I recall it being awful, since you can't really FIGHT each other as the attacking player basically always wins. It turns what is already a 1v3 compstomp into a 2v2 compstomp.


The remaining 20% are other final-tier summon creatures like Sky Dragons and anybody who knows Crack's Call.No effect vs. fliers, nyah nyah. If your heroes aren't equipped for flight, they aren't really going anywhere anyway.

[tyckspoon]

No effect vs. fliers, nyah nyah. If your heroes aren't equipped for flight, they aren't really going anywhere anyway.

Web. :smalltongue: Although AI casters usually aren't smart enough to use it.

[JMobius]

Web. :smalltongue: Although AI casters usually aren't smart enough to use it.

The combat AI is atrocious. I don't have the paitence to command through every single tactical battle against every small town, but I've found that I can pretty much guarantee losing any low level heroes I have to the auto-combat, regardless what the odds are.

[The_Shaman]

Ah, Master of Magic... one of my all-time favourite strategies. I actually liked the dwarves most, btw - high HP, decent combat... get some hammerhands and start rocking.

Then I found Master of Orion II, which reminded me of MoM in space. And with death stars!

[LiteYear]

You start with level 11, you can find up to level 13 by plundering ruins (-60%), and find Conjurer (-25%) and Sorcery Mastery (-15%), for a total of -100% off Sorcery Summons (Cheap as Free!).

Meh. I thought they're be a quicker way, because by the time to raid enough dungeons to get those picks, you should have already won. Especially if you're playing pure Sorcery, as you should have Time Stop way before then.