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BobVosh
2008-11-17, 02:30 AM
I'm in another 4ed game, and notice that con + cha is good for warlocks. Did a quick char with a generator, and played today. Noticed when flipping through the books that a lot of abilities have secondaries go off of int.

So are all classes 3 attribute dependent? Or should I have chosen between con and charisma, and pumped intelligence?

If anyone is curious I'm Half-Elf Fey-pact. Lvl 1 still.
Running with 2 eldarin pallies, and an elven ranger. (Theme-sense anyone?)

However, that said, this is the first character I have enjoyed in 4ed, but that is just because I have teleporting around along with placing pointless curses on npcs I deem "most likely to die in a surprise round."

Are all classes like this? (2 main, and one secondary, possibly called tertiary)
I've looked through cleric a bit, along with wizard, and didn't notice it as much.

1of3
2008-11-17, 02:45 AM
No, not all. Cleric, Paladin and Ranger work that way.

But Warlord and Rogue have one primary and two secondary based on a choice at first level.

Fighter has one primary and can use Dex, Con or Wis depending on weapon.

Wizard has one primary and three others that are useful for a class feature but not for powers. (One Wizard power uses Wis.)


As a Fey pact warlock you do not really need Con. Although you can choose attack powers from the other pacts, you do not get the pact boon.

Tuataralad
2008-11-17, 07:36 AM
Ya, INT is pretty important, but besides tat, CON or CHA depens on your pact. For example, infernal pact really only needs CON, but if you are going with fey pact, it is probably better to have a little bit from both, because that's how it's designed, unless you decide to only take spells tat have CHA bonus or something.

Blackfang108
2008-11-17, 10:05 AM
Ya, INT is pretty important, but besides tat, CON or CHA depens on your pact. For example, infernal pact really only needs CON, but if you are going with fey pact, it is probably better to have a little bit from both, because that's how it's designed, unless you decide to only take spells tat have CHA bonus or something.

You're thinking of Star Pact, which needs both.

Fay pact is almost exclusively CHA.

CHA, INT, CON, should be your order, but switching CON and INT works well if you are going to choose powers from other pacts.

Yakk
2008-11-17, 10:38 AM
You do not need to pick powers only from within your own Pact.

Often you want a "main attack stat", to boost your to-hit chance.

You can only boost 2 stats as you gain levels, so keeping 3 high enough is hard or impossible.

Larrin
2008-11-17, 11:08 AM
Most classes have three stats they focus on; often these three fill the three defenses (fort, ref, will). Of the '3 stat' classes there are some that have two primary stats (warlock, paladin, cleric, ranger). Often people using two primary stat classes will only focus on one of the two, but there is no reason not too. In your example the star pact is unique in that it strongly encourages having two prime stats while other builds seem to want you to focus on just one of them. Its often hard to split your focus on two main stats, especially if you use point buy. If you truly focus equally on both stats you tend to have lower points in each, and very little left over for your 'kicker' stat. Often there is little build dependence (only the warlock has a bonus for a build choice in its powers, the others have no 'build' distintion in their powers other than the obvious stat used)

Other 3 stat classes have only one main stat, and then builds that focus on one of the two secondary stats (rogue, warlord). its straight forward, but very build dependant.

Then there are the "One stat + 3 others" which is the fighter and wizard. The "3 others" are pretty much defined by which weapons/implements you want to use. For fighters using a specific weapon with a power might add dex to damage or con to attack. For wizards their '3 others' benefit only their implement specialization power, with Wis oddly adding to a few at-wills (damage for cloud of daggers, push distance for thunderwave, i think)

a couple other things to notice about stats for classes:

Divine classes don't include any AC/ref stats. This often tags them as MAD (multiple ability dependance) since if they want a decent ref defense they need to short one of their main 3.

All martial classes include strength, all arcane classes include int (and con..? not sure about the artifacer), all divine classes are str, wis, cha. I'm interested in how this will stand up to future arcane and divine classes as well as other power sources.

Artanis
2008-11-17, 01:03 PM
All the current divine classes get heavy(ish) armor though, so at least the AC isn't that big a problem.

Kurald Galain
2008-11-17, 01:44 PM
So are all classes 3 attribute dependent?

Essentially, yes. Pretty much every class has either one prime attribute and a choice of two for a secondary, or choice of two for a prime attribute, and one secondary. They can pretty much ignore every other stat, except (rarely) when required for a feat or two, or if you want all your defenses to be strong (which appears to be a losing battle in the long run; heavy armor exists for the characters without int or dex, and keeping ALL of will/reflex/fort high is impractical).

{table]Class|Prime|Secondary
Cleric|str or wis|cha
Fighter|str|con, dex or wis
Paladin|str|wis or cha
Ranger|str or dex|wis
Rogue|dex|str or cha
Warlock|con or cha|int
Warlord|str|int or cha
Wizard|int|wis, dex or con
Artificer|int|con or ???
Barbarian|str|con or cha
Bard|cha|con or int
Swordmage|int|con or str
[/table]

ShaggyMarco
2008-11-17, 02:18 PM
{table]Class|Prime|Secondary
Cleric|str or wis|cha
Fighter|str|con, dex and/or wis
Paladin|str or cha|wis
Ranger|str or dex|wis
Rogue|dex|str or cha
Warlock|con and/or cha|int
Warlord|str|int and/or cha
Wizard|int|wis, dex or con
Artificer|int|con or ???
Barbarian|str|con or cha
Bard|cha|con or int
Swordmage|int|con or str
[/table]

This might be a little more accurate. I changed the Paladin (which doesn't NEED high STR to function, but might NEED Cha.

I also added the and/ors in some cases, as for most classes, having both in a certain stat tier, does you little over-all good.

As has been said before, classes either have 1 primary (attack) stat with 3 secondary stats that add secondary benefits to powers or enhance class feature choices (Fighter, Wizards); A choice of two primary (attack) stats with 1 secondary stat that increases secondary benefits to powers or enhances class feature choices (Cleric, Paladin, Ranger, Warlock); or has 1 primary (attack) stat and a choice of two secondary stats that add secondary benefits to powers and/or enhance class feature choices (Most common-all others).