Fire Emblem - whaaaaaa?

[Another_Poet]

Hi guys. This thread is specifically about the Fire Emblem game for the Wii. As I recall there is an older Gamecube Fire Emblem as well, but I've never played that.

My wife and I rented this over the last week and she was really excited to try it. She started on Easy mode and won the first battle no problem. The enemies behaved with such incredible stupidity that we rolled our eyes and she restarted on Normal mode.

Cranking up the difficulty on a video game is a first for my wife, so I wasn't too surprised to see the enemies mop up the floor with her. After several tries she got through the intro battle and I thought "Okay, she's got the hang of this. Cool!"

Neither she nor I could get through the next battle (getting the abbott's medicine) however. We tried about 20 times and then gave up for a few days. Yesterday I gave it about 5 more tries and finally got through, only to see that the next battle is even more ridiculously hard.

Again, this is Normal Mode, not Difficult. What gives? Or to match my font to my frustration:

Why is it so frickin' difficult?

As far as I can tell the only way to win these battles is to guess exactly what positions the game designers wanted you to move your troops to each turn. There aren't multiple ways to win; if you put someone in the "wrong" square they will get killed that turn. Most troops can survive attacks from one enemy troop and no more, Sothe being the exception.

Do others find it as difficult+railroady as I find it, or am I doing something wrong??

[Oregano]

Fire Emblem has a reputation for being really, really, really difficult, which is part of the fun. Getting through each stae with no casualties is cause for a "Hooray!!!".:smallbiggrin:

Just keep trying.

[Drascin]

What Oregano said, plus the Wii Fire Emblem game reputedly has a particularly hard beginning, so it's not just you. Now, I haven't played it, but if what I've read it's true, your main characters are a mage and a thief, instead of the usual "Lord backed up by Jeigan character" setup, which might be what causes you the problem of every character dying in one hit, two tops.

So yes, keep trying until you get some character that is able to actually tank a bit.

[Oslecamo]

Welcome to the world of Fire Emblem, where criticals may actually kill your characters in one hit.

Here's the catch:The game assumes your characters are gonna die, for a dramatic story. And they won't be killed by plot. They will be killed by mooks.

But don't stay discouraged. It's only in the start.

As you advance, your guys get tougher, and you'll get more guys. This will give you more variety and allow for multiple paths for victory.

This railroad sydrnome is only in the begginning. Think of it as low level D&D. You really can't do much and you die in two hits, but if you get to the higher levels the game becomes much more interesting.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I feel your pain, sir. I've attempted to play both Fire Emblem games for the GBA and I've never finished them because I always started a mission over when I lost someone.

[Nohwl]

the gamecube one, path of radiance, will give you more of the story. radiant dawn is like a sequel to the game. you dont need to play path of radiance to understand whats going on, but it uses the same characters and gives you a lot more information.

anyway, you can save during battles in normal and easy mode. it will help if you are having trouble.

the first part of the game is hard, your units are under leveled and are just bad when compared to the other sections of the game. it gets easier later on.

the character drascin is talking about is nolan. edward is pretty fragile, so try and keep him away from enemies that can fight back. micaiah should be doing the same job as edward, killing the weakened things. if micaiah or edward kills an enemy, they wont be counter attacked. they didnt get hit, so they wont in danger of dying on the enemies turn (they can only be hit 2 or 3 times and thats it). i dont like leonardo. i only used him if i had to.

[theMycon]

I've only played the GBA versions (rather easy- the enemies are poorly co-ordinated enough to attack in waves, yet powerful enough to level you every other time you kill a mook. You just needed mobility.) Assuming the system works the same way...

Has the game explained the "weapon Triangle" to you yet? "Rock-paper-scissors" for "Sword-lance-axe", respectively. Also "anima-dark-light" for magic, and "flyer-bow-everything else" as the informal triangle.

If you attack with whatever weapon type is strong against an enemy, they aren't likely to hit back. Also, weakening the herd is not what you want to do- the game rewards defensive tactics and blitzkreig, nothing in between. cower then slaughter then cower again.

And, if there are any towns/houses/villages around, visit them. These often contain goodies or extra characters.

[Name_Here]

Fire Emblem games usually get their difficulties switched enroute from Japan. Their normal becomes our easy and so on.

Take it very slow, Always, Always check your enemies to see their ranges and set your defense up so that only one enemy can attack your guy at a time. It sucks that one mistake and you're back at square 1 but it's what you have to do.

[Querzis]

Basically, just save lots of times. What I really like about radiant dawn is the fact that you can save in game before any hits and just restart if a critical kill one of your characters. Thats why Radiant Dawn is the only Fire Emblem I managed to finish on hard mode. Also, I dunno if you realized it but you can see your chance to miss, how much damage you will do and your chance to crit as well as your opponents before you actually hit him its really important to use that to see who your character should attacks.

[Tengu_temp]

Welcome to the world of Fire Emblem, where criticals may actually kill your characters in one hit.

Here's the catch:The game assumes your characters are gonna die, for a dramatic story. And they won't be killed by plot. They will be killed by mooks.

But don't stay discouraged. It's only in the start.

As you advance, your guys get tougher, and you'll get more guys. This will give you more variety and allow for multiple paths for victory.

This railroad sydrnome is only in the begginning. Think of it as low level D&D. You really can't do much and you die in two hits, but if you get to the higher levels the game becomes much more interesting.

Actually, what you're describing is a sign of bad tactics - if you lose characters to mooks, it means you let them get surrounded by enemies they are weak against. I've almost finished Fire Emblem for GBA and I haven't lost a single character yet (although I had to replay several scenarios because of that). And while the Wii version is harder, I know I'd play it the same way.

Losing characters in games where you can't easily resurrect them, and where they are actual people, not faceless mooks, just isn't my style.

[Oregano]

I think it really depends of play style, you don't need everyone, in fact there's too many people for all of them to be useful. Of course I liked saving them all.

My fave FE character's Raph from FE7, his intro was awesome, absolutely awesome.

[blakyoshi7]

Again, this is Normal Mode, not Difficult. What gives? Or to match my font to my frustration:

Why is it so frickin' difficult?


There's you're problem, right there!

In the Wii Fire Emblem, Japan's Hard Mode was renamed in America to Normal Mode.

The reason the enemies were easy at first in Easy is because the game assumes you haven't played any turn-based strategy game before, ever. The fights get wonderfully challenging very fast, and on your first run through the game you're guaranteed to lose a few party members. Please, don't base your Fire Emblem experience on Normal mode: I love the game, and have beaten it may times, but never got much farther than you did on Normal mode.

[Nohwl]

normal wasnt that bad really. you just have to get past part one and its much easier.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Radiant Dawn is

a) Hard. They expect everyone who played it already plaed Path of Radiance and is therefore basically familiar with Fire Emblem mechanics
b) Particularly hard at the beginning
c) Had its difficulty ramped up when it was imported.

I'd go grab the Gamecube game, Path of Radiance. It's got a much smoother learning curve.

[Dihan]

It also doesn't help that Micaiah's team down-right sucks.

Except for Edward. He's my favourite Trueblade.

[Nohwl]

he takes too long to level and is comparable to the other ones at the end of the game.

[Oslecamo]

Actually, what you're describing is a sign of bad tactics - if you lose characters to mooks, it means you let them get surrounded by enemies they are weak against. I've almost finished Fire Emblem for GBA and I haven't lost a single character yet (although I had to replay several scenarios because of that). And while the Wii version is harder, I know I'd play it the same way.

I agree that you can finish the game whitout losing anyone, but it will take a lot more work that sucking up some loses here and there. If you don't sacrifice anyone, you'll end up with much more characters that you can actually bring to the battle.

Plus, sometimes you just get hit by a critical from that guy who had just 2% chance of hiting you and the rest of the mooks gank up on him to finish him off.

Specially in the final boss battle. I had worked really hard to don't lose anyone there, but then simply snaped and threw my characters suicide style to see the ending ASAP.

EDIT:Actually, constant restart untill lady luck smiles you isn't that smart of a tactics anyway.

[Dihan]

he takes too long to level and is comparable to the other ones at the end of the game.

Sure, Zihark or someone may be better, but I just prefer to use Edward.

Nephenee on the other hand. My most favourite unit. Ever. Especially the Path of Radiance version.

[Nerd-o-rama]

It also doesn't help that Micaiah's team down-right sucks.

Except for Edward. He's my favourite Trueblade.You make this Mia fanboy sad and angry.

However, you are forgiven, since you acknowledge the subdued awesome that is Nephenee.

Oslecamo, as for save-resetting, it's not for when chance screws you over. It's for when you make a tactical error in the game's very demanding tactical scenarios that inadvertently leaves a character open to an unsurvivable attack. At least for me.

[Poison_Fish]

As another Mia fanboy, I am sad.

[Mando Knight]

Sure, Zihark or someone may be better, but I just prefer to use Edward.

Mia, not Zihark, is the only Trueblade that has as much potential as Edward. However, (I, too, am a Mia fanboy of sorts...) Mia comes in Ike's story (which is probably the easiest, since you're team is filled with all the badasses except for the Laguz Lords) so she's got access to better equipment, starts at a higher level, and doesn't die within the first three levels.

If you play Fire Emblem saying "It's OK if a few of my characters die, I'll be fine," you'll be in a world of pain in the first Micaiah mission in part 3, where you meet up with lethal enemies that are too bloody fast. Furthermore, many of the "weaker" characters end up much stronger, for example Eddie.

Don't leave things up to chance--play tactically, be goal-oriented, protect your ranged units, use supports when they're available. (Sothe and Micaiah is an important early one...) Use the terrain, use the weapon triangle, use choke points, etc. If you leave a character other than one of the Super-Tanks (i.e. Laguz Lords, Ike, the Black Knight, etc.) out in the open where an enemy can target them, you will lose that character. Bring a healer to every fight when you get the chance to choose units.

Radiant Dawn is a lot harder than Path of Radiance (partly because they shifted all of the difficulties down a title to match PoR's naming convention, in which Easy was a not-Japan difficulty setting that was easier, and Hard was a blend of the Japanese Hard and Maniac modes...), so it will be a challenge.

Your characters' power level vs. your opponent's is almost quadratic... at least, it is for the better characters. They might start out too weak to take a hit, slow down when they use anything other than an iron weapon, or getting double-attacked in every round, but eventually (Ike in Path of Radiance is a good example, actually...) they'll be unstoppable main battle-tanks who have a 50% or less chance of taking only one or two points of damage from an enemy, then turn around and knock their bloody socks off.

Low level characters (Micaiah, Edward, etc.) are raw recruits (except for Jill, who is oddly 1st tier regardless of the fact that she fought in the Mad King's War, the same war in which Sothe couldn't hit 2nd tier), while second-tier (Sothe) characters are seasoned veterans, and third-tier (the Laguz Lords, the Black Knight, the Dragon laguz...) are the most powerful warriors in Tellius. You're basically taking a bunch of guys straight out of boot camp and throwing them into a war that will theoretically make them FOXHOUND... or a unit of Solid Snakes.

[Dihan]

Mia, not Zihark, is the only Trueblade that has as much potential as Edward.

My Mia turned out quite badly compared to Edward and Zihark. I prefer Edward because he capped stats quite quickly compared to Zihark.

Besides, personal experience with characters doesn't matter at all with Fire Emblem. I was probably just RNG screwed with Mia.

[Nohwl]

you basically have to baby edward unitl he becomes able to fight on his own. zihark starts out good. zihark has a better affinity too. pair him with nolan and you wont have to worry about those two much, if at all. i dont see a reason to level edward over zihark.

i focused on using jill, zihark, nolan, micaiah and sothe and thats pretty much it for micaiahs part. i paired nolan and zihark togeher for supports and miciah and sothe together. i had jill support harr later on.

[Dihan]

Well, one reason you may choose Edward over Zihark is to make the game more challenging, though once he can survive by himself he's really good. Especially with the right abilities.

[Querzis]

My Mia turned out quite badly compared to Edward and Zihark.

You probably had really bad random stat then because, statiscally, shes really the best trueblade (and also the cutest girl in the game).

But once again, I dont get why people keep saying its harder then path of radiance or the GBA games. Since you can save in the game I barely ever had to restart a scenario and I finished hard mode with losing just about 8 guys (and I lost nobody in normal mode). Really, just save very often and restart where you saved every time an enemy manage to crit you or every time you miss despite having 80% hitting chance and its a piece of cake. Some might call it cheating but as far as I'm concerned, I'm just not letting the computer be lucky. Sorry but when I miss my first hit with 91% hitting chance and when the other guy then crit me with 12% crit chance (as it actually happen quite often since the game is so long) I have a right to say: «screw you, we'll do that again and lets see if you can get lucky twice». Of course, sometimes they get lucky twice but you'll have your revenge soon enough.

[Inhuman Bot]

Aye, FE is a hard, hard game.

I have not played the wii, and barely played the gcn fire emblems, but I've beaten the 2 american and 2 japense fire emblem games, so I can say that I have gotten the hang of them.

A peice of advice: always make sure you have an armorslayer and a killer edge if you can manage it. and pump up high crit/speed charcters.

I don't know if you have used them or not, but always, ALWAYS, ALWAYS use those stat boost items without long periods of thought. I know that I spent entire games trying to decide what to do with that angelic robe, and know that its better to use them then to waste them on nothing.

If you'd be able to detail the situation, I can help more.

oh, and as hard as it can be, sometimes you need to cut your losses and let a charcter die. its hard, but it'll save your hair from being ripped out.

[Mando Knight]

oh, and as hard as it can be, sometimes you need to cut your losses and let a charcter die. its hard, but it'll save your hair from being ripped out.

EXCEPT when the character is Reyson, a high-level character, a healer, or one of the "Don't let 'em die" characters (i.e. Micaiah and Ike). Then you want to reset. (Reyson is better than the other two herons, and he's extremely useful for taking down not-Maniac Ashnard in FE 9...)

[Raz_Fox]

I feel your pain. I only have Blazing Sword, and I'm currently stuck Lloyd's level. A freaking. swordmaster. with. a. Light Brand. I promote in the 17-20 range, which means I can't beat this guy. I'm going to use Oswin to beat him next time...

*Coughs* Anyway, back on subject. I can't wait to get Path of Radiance for Christmas - if I'm lucky - and I'll get Radiant Dawn eventually. Here's my advice.

- Really, you need to start on Easy mode if this is your first FE game. You need to get the hang of things first.
- Pick the characters you love, not the good characters. All characters are good with use, and you can shape them into awesomeness.

More advice later - busy at the moment. I'll edit in some more this evening. :smallsmile:

[Mirrinus]

Hey, could be worse. You could be playing the SNES Fire Emblem games, and facing half a dozen Bishops with 100% accuracy and infinite use Sleep staves with insane range, a dozen Sages with accurate long-range magic, all being guarded by a squad of Swordmasters. Or just Fire Emblem 5 in general.

Many veterans of the franchise believe the games have gotten easier over time with the transition to GBA and gamecube, although admittedly the 10th game was probably a step up again in difficulty from its most recent predecessors.

[Closet_Skeleton]

I feel your pain. I only have Blazing Sword, and I'm currently stuck Lloyd's level. A freaking. swordmaster. with. a. Light Brand. I promote in the 17-20 range, which means I can't beat this guy. I'm going to use Oswin to beat him next time...

Except the light brand sucks and can't crit at range. If Lloyd had a wo dao, then you'd be screwed.

I've only played Blazing Sword and Sacred Stones, but I've won both on hard mode without losing anyone (well, I haven't won Hector's Hard mode yet). I just restarted a lot of times.

Oswin does kind of make all other Knights suck in comparison. Even the supposed super-trainee sucks in comparison. I got him with maxed out speed once and he was invincable with Rex Hasta in the link arena.

[Oregano]

Who's Oswin, was he in FE7?(first one released in Europe)

I remember the name.:smallconfused:

[Tengu_temp]

A knight, Hector's pal. Strong and tough, but slow. Genius Bruiser, according to TV Tropes.

[Another_Poet]

Wow guys, such an outpouring of advice. Many thanks. I passed on some of this to my wife and, to my amazement, she is ready to puchase this game and make a go of beating it with no losses. That's got to be the first time she has ever not quit when the going got rough in a video game. I think I'll make a gamer out of her yet!

Anyway, thanks for the reassurance & advice.

ap

[Closet_Skeleton]

Who's Oswin, was he in FE7?(first one released in Europe)

I remember the name.:smallconfused:


A knight, Hector's pal. Strong and tough, but slow. Genius Bruiser, according to TV Tropes.

He's essentially the anti-dote to Jeigan (Jeigan was Marth's answer to Marcus).

Eliwood's Jeigan is Marcus, who's the standard Jeigan
Lyn's Jeigan is Wallace, who sucks but has some awesome support convesations and is okay if you take advantage of Hard Mode to not promote him immediately but only because he gets rediculous luck for a knight
Hector's Jeigan is Oswin, who is only a high level first class character rather than a pre-promoted character and pwns everything.

[Inhuman Bot]

@^ erm.... if you don't promote him to general, he automaticly does it when you meet him as eliwood. the only difference is that he gets no promtotion bonus...

[Moonshadow]

Its probably because in the english versions of FE 10, the difficulties are messed up.

Easy is Japanese Normal mode, Normal is Japanese Hard Mode, and Hard is Maniac.


Also, it doesn't help that you are stuck with the Masochism Brigade for the first part. And then the Crimean Fail Knights (except for Geoffry, he's pretty good)

Really, the Greil Mercenaries are your only halfway decent units in the game.

If you want to make it slightly easier in Part 1, when you get Laura, use Micaiah to Sacrifice to heal your units, then have Laura heal Micaiah. Double the exp for those 2 at least. Also, make sure to use Nolan as your tank for the first few stages, he's the bst unit you get until Aran pops up.

You have to recruit Aran with Laura as well. Oh, and don't overuse Sothe at the start, he's already a promoted unit. Just keep him near Micaiah for the support bonuses, or use him with the Beastkiller to take out beast Laguz in that one chapter.

[Dihan]

Also, it doesn't help that you are stuck with the Masochism Brigade for the first part. And then the Crimean Fail Knights (except for Geoffry, he's pretty good)

Really, the Greil Mercenaries are your only halfway decent units in the game.

...

Take that back!

Nephenee > Everyone

[Moonshadow]

Nephenee isn't a Crimean Knight, she's just a Crimean citizen.

I'm refering to all the Paladins/Brom/Danved/Calill.

[Mando Knight]

Technically, Brom, Danved (is Devdan, seriously!), and Calill are also citizens...

Kieran is actually on par with Titania, who is no longer an almost-Jeigan (in 9, she is actually a viable character if you keep her in your party, as her stats will actually grow (original Jeigan had only a 10% chance of getting any growths each level, and only in a few stats), and front-lining with Ike, Oscar, and Titania supporting each other in 9 makes 'em pretty much unhittable...), and Geoffrey vs. Oscar is also pretty debatable--Oscar's around more, but Geoffrey has an ending with Elincia that is only possible if you bring him in to the final marathon, and they have roughly similar stat potential...

Oh... and the American difficulties are easier than their respective Japanese difficulties, as shown here (http://serenesforest.net/general/local3.html)... the levels of some of your characters have been increased, the Dawn Brigade gets several new unique weapons, you no longer need the Crowns to promote to 3rd tier, removal of the forge point system, and Resolve and Wrath became easier to use (From Stat% to 100% activation chance, and increased the maximum percent of health required for activation).

[Mirrinus]

@^ erm.... if you don't promote him to general, he automaticly does it when you meat him. the only difference is that he gets no promtotion bonus...

I'm pretty sure he doesn't auto-promote by the time you recruite him again after not promoting him on Lyn's hard mode.

[Sequinox]

I really haven't liked the newest two anywhere NEAR as much as the first 2, sadly... But after reading this thread yesterday, I picked it up again and started playing. Now I'm on Act I's endgame. Does the story ever really develop in Radiant Dawn, or does it stay like PoR where it's pretty much just war all the way through?

[Moonshadow]

Technically, Brom, Danved (is Devdan, seriously!), and Calill are also citizens...

Kieran is actually on par with Titania, who is no longer an almost-Jeigan (in 9, she is actually a viable character if you keep her in your party, as her stats will actually grow (original Jeigan had only a 10% chance of getting any growths each level, and only in a few stats), and front-lining with Ike, Oscar, and Titania supporting each other in 9 makes 'em pretty much unhittable...), and Geoffrey vs. Oscar is also pretty debatable--Oscar's around more, but Geoffrey has an ending with Elincia that is only possible if you bring him in to the final marathon, and they have roughly similar stat potential...

Oh... and the American difficulties are easier than their respective Japanese difficulties, as shown here (http://serenesforest.net/general/local3.html)... the levels of some of your characters have been increased, the Dawn Brigade gets several new unique weapons, you no longer need the Crowns to promote to 3rd tier, removal of the forge point system, and Resolve and Wrath became easier to use (From Stat% to 100% activation chance, and increased the maximum percent of health required for activation).

Its more a matter of how long you have to use the units, and in that respect, the Greil Mercenaries are the best. Except for Haar. Haar is godly in this game, even if he comes in during Elincia's chapters.

Personally, the best units to me are Ike, Shinon, Soren, Titania, Mia, Haar, Nephenee, Mist, and maybe Oscar and Boyd.

Also, I don't really care about Wrath or Resolve, the fact that they gave Vantage a % chanace of activation really annoyed me :smallfurious:

Oh, and as for the Dawn Brigade's special weapons, they kinda need them to bring them up to average, tbh :smallwink:

[Mando Knight]

I really haven't liked the newest two anywhere NEAR as much as the first 2, sadly... But after reading this thread yesterday, I picked it up again and started playing. Now I'm on Act I's endgame. Does the story ever really develop in Radiant Dawn, or does it stay like PoR where it's pretty much just war all the way through?

Yes, the story picks up a bit. It's long, and you'll end up hitting yourself with your own weapons, before everyone regains their senses and takes down the big bad.

...NITPICK: calling Blazing Sword and Sword of Seals "the first 2" is... bad. They're numbers 7 and 8, and are the second and third in the GBA's deviation from the first 5 made for the Famicom and Super Famicom. 9 and 10, the Gamecube and Wii games, are closer to the first 5 in ruleset and scope. I'm pretty sure that 11 also carries on with this, given that it's the second remake of the first, Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light... except for the fact that they added the Class Swap feature...

[Geno9999]

I really haven't liked the newest two anywhere NEAR as much as the first 2, sadly... But after reading this thread yesterday, I picked it up again and started playing. Now I'm on Act I's endgame. Does the story ever really develop in Radiant Dawn, or does it stay like PoR where it's pretty much just war all the way through?
Oooookay, the basic run-down of the plot of FE10 (spoilers ahoy!)
Act 1; You play as the Dawn Brigade to restore the fallen kingdom of Daein and overthrow the occupying army of Begnion.
Act 2; Crimea is on the verge of going into a civil war, the new Queen Crimea is greatly troubled and tries to seek a peaceful way to stop the rebels.
Act 3; Ike and his mercenary group, Greil Mercenaries, are hired by the newly formed Laguz Alliance to help fight a war against Begnion, however later, Daein joins on Begnion in the war, much to the surprise to everyone else. What is happening in Begnion?
Act 4; The War with Laguz and Beorc ended abruptly with the awaking of the Goddesses of Chaos (not a dark god like everyone thought) and of Law (remind you of a aliment system?) Ike, Micaiah, Empress of Begnion, and Queen of Crimea must join with the Goddess of Chaos to restore the balance of Law and Chaos.
After playing this and watching Mando play FE9, You might find a Chessmaster (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheChessmaster?from=Main.Chessmaster) made by an catastrophic event in Begnoin's history.

[Oregano]

You may want to spoiler that Geno. It might ruin it for people.

[Geno9999]

@^ 'kay, it's fixed ^_^