Magitech Paladin

[graymachine]

I was looking to make a variant to the paladin class based not on divine power but power from magitech augmentation. However, I can't seem to nail down some concrete, balanced changes to make. Either what I come up with is minor or critically unbalances the class. For example, I was thinking that instead of receiving Divine Grace the character has a CON score that they gain hp from and affects their Fort save, but for all other purposes they are treated as not having a CON score, such as undead or constructs. Not sure, but I think that's too beefy. Any thoughts on replacement class abilities?


P.S.- I'm aware of the Green Star Adept PrC, but I'm not interested in it as, for one, it is not a martial class, and it requires arcane magic.

[Telonius]

My initial thought is, take a Warforged and re-fluff the Paladin abilities to be based off of his body enhancements instead of divine power. Instead of the Paladin's Code, make it the Laws of Robotics. Possibly call in a clockwork mount (identical stats to a normal one) from Mechanus, instead of the Celestial planes. Something like that.

[BRC]

Re-fluffing is going to be your best friend here. Don't feel you NEED to make radical mechanical changes when fluff ones work fine.

[Tengu_temp]

This thread reminds me of my Magitek Knight class for 4e - a defender riding a Large-sized magepunk mech, basing on dexterity and, depending on the build, intelligence (Skilled Magitek Knight) or charisma (Hot-Blooded Magitek Knight). I need to finish that project one day...

Ahem, on topic. I agree with BRC and Telonius - just refluff a normal paladin.

[BRC]

Ahem, on topic. I agree with BRC and Telonius - just refluff a normal paladin.
Paladin is actually going to be tough to refluff, what with the Detect and Smiting-ness. It's highly reliant on alignment based stuff, though if it's alignment based magitech that could work.
"Engaging Anti-Villany protocol, You had this coming evildoer"!.


My next character (For a time travel campaign) is a warforged factotum refluffed into the portable node for the AI that runs the time machine, so I get to refluff his Arcane Dillente spells into nifty gizmos that he has built in.

[graymachine]

Hmm. Well, I was planning on redoing the fluff, but there seems to be need to restructure the class per force of the concept. It makes little sense to me that a clockwork paladin would be able to detect evil, let alone smite it. The logical solution is to change all of his class abilities from "[blank] evil" to "[blank] chaos", making it more or less a Gray Guard, but a paladin of law isn't really what I'm trying to go for. Also, it seems to me that spellcasting, even a paladin's, goes against the concept. However, I could simply take Thematic Spellcasting and call it a day.

[graymachine]

Paladin is actually going to be tough to refluff, what with the Detect and Smiting-ness. It's highly reliant on alignment based stuff, though if it's alignment based magitech that could work.
"Engaging Anti-Villany protocol, You had this coming evildoer"!.


My next character (For a time travel campaign) is a warforged factotum refluffed into the portable node for the AI that runs the time machine, so I get to refluff his Arcane Dillente spells into nifty gizmos that he has built in.

Damn, pseudo-ninjaed.

Actually, you reminded me that I was thinking of changing out the Paladin Mount for what would essentially be an onboard AI. Basically, the AI would be like an item familiar, although someone mentioned that Warforged can get a similar thing.

[RTGoodman]

Well, isn't there a feat somewhere from FR for Paladins and Rangers that makes them Arcane casters rather than Divine casters? Sword of the Arcane Order or something? That might help, since (to me) Arcane magic seems more thematic than Divine magic for a "Magitech" character.

After that, why not just look up alternate class features that are already out there? I know there's the Charging Smite and Holy Spirit (or something) features from PHB2 and Dungeonscape that replace Special Mount, and I'm sure there are others out there.

[Telonius]

If Paladin doesn't completely work for you, some of the Knight class features might.

[BRC]

Damn, pseudo-ninjaed.

Actually, you reminded me that I was thinking of changing out the Paladin Mount for what would essentially be an onboard AI. Basically, the AI would be like an item familiar, although someone mentioned that Warforged can get a similar thing.

It sounds like you'll be better off refluffing a different class than a paladin. What is it about the Paladin that you like, that made you pick it to Clockwork-up.

[graymachine]

It sounds like you'll be better off refluffing a different class than a paladin. What is it about the Paladin that you like, that made you pick it to Clockwork-up.

Well, I'm thinking of the character as a champion of his order, defender of the truth of their beliefs, etc. It fits the concept of a paladin, minus any holy connection. Furthermore, I could see paladins, out of the martial classes, having the dedication to expensively modify their bodies and, to a certain extent, their minds.

[edit] Also, out of the martial classes, the Paladin has the most supernatural abilities that can be modified into clockwork ones.

[Nerd-o-rama]

So in refluffing their power source to be more technological, you're worried about the alignment-based abilities not making as much sense. I see.

What I would do is make "Evil Auras" something you can see and effect through arcanotechnological means. Is there a reason why they can't have some kind of magitech Evil Detector (TM)? Preferably one that looks like mirrorshaded sunglasses, or possibly a techy-looking replacement for one eye? As for smiting, perhaps they have a small, portable device that can temporarily attune their weapons to the Planar Resonance Frequency of Celestia, dealing destructive harmonic resonance to things and being attuned to the frequencies of the Lower Planes.

Spellcasting may also be an issue, but frankly that's easy to replace. The Holy Warrior replacement levels from CChamp give you some decent feats instead of casting, and the non-spellcasting Paladin from CWar gives you some limited spell-like abilities to replace it.

[Fax Celestis]

Well, isn't there a feat somewhere from FR for Paladins and Rangers that makes them Arcane casters rather than Divine casters? Sword of the Arcane Order or something? That might help, since (to me) Arcane magic seems more thematic than Divine magic for a "Magitech" character.

After that, why not just look up alternate class features that are already out there? I know there's the Charging Smite and Holy Spirit (or something) features from PHB2 and Dungeonscape that replace Special Mount, and I'm sure there are others out there.

Alt Class Feature from Complete Champion replaces Paladin and/or Ranger spellcasting with a bonus feat every four levels (starting at 4th). This'd let you pick up warforged components, wouldn't it? If so, I think that'd be your best bet.

[graymachine]

So in refluffing their power source to be more technological, you're worried about the alignment-based abilities not making as much sense. I see.

What I would do is make "Evil Auras" something you can see and effect through arcanotechnological means. Is there a reason why they can't have some kind of magitech Evil Detector (TM)? Preferably one that looks like mirrorshaded sunglasses, or possibly a techy-looking replacement for one eye? As for smiting, perhaps they have a small, portable device that can temporarily attune their weapons to the Planar Resonance Frequency of Celestia, dealing destructive harmonic resonance to things and being attuned to the frequencies of the Lower Planes.

Hmm. A strong possibility.

Here's a possible alt for smiting someone just suggested.

Rarefied Targeting System (Su): Extensive visual and cognitive enhancement has given the character the ability to strike unerring, horrific blows. Once a day per 5 levels the character can target an opponent with this ability as part of an attack. The character adds 1/2 of their charisma bonus to the attack roll and their class level to damage. This damage is an un-typed energy.

[graymachine]

Alt Class Feature from Complete Champion replaces Paladin and/or Ranger spellcasting with a bonus feat every four levels (starting at 4th). This'd let you pick up warforged components, wouldn't it? If so, I think that'd be your best bet.

Unfortunately, I think Complete Champion is banned.

[Nerd-o-rama]

If you just want to make it "Smite Anything", Crusader does that and just gives about half the uses per day that Paladin does. So you could do that and call it balanced, rather than fiddling with attack/damage numbers. Your way is good too, though.

[The Glyphstone]

If you just want to make it "Smite Anything", Crusader does that and just gives about half the uses per day that Paladin does. So you could do that and call it balanced, rather than fiddling with attack/damage numbers. Your way is good too, though.

You could fluff the Crusader's maneuver recovery as bugs in the 'programming' if you went this route.

[ClericofPhwarrr]

Well, I'm thinking of the character as a champion of his order, defender of the truth of their beliefs, etc. It fits the concept of a paladin, minus any holy connection. Furthermore, I could see paladins, out of the martial classes, having the dedication to expensively modify their bodies and, to a certain extent, their minds.

Also, out of the martial classes, the Paladin has the most supernatural abilities that can be modified into clockwork ones.

Crusader is what you're looking for. No casting, no inherent anti-evil focus, all the awesome and more.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Hey, 17 posts before "Paladins suck, play a Crusader". More than expected.

Don't get me wrong, Crusader is a much better-designed class. I just have more fun trying to play around with my old friend the Paladin sometimes.

[Person_Man]

How about this:


Magitech Paladin
d12 hit points
4 Skill Points per level, Paladin list
Strong Will and Fort Saves

1 - Aura of Good, Detect Evil, Construct Empathy
2 - Lay on Hands
3 - Mechitech Armor
4 - Mechitech Armor +1, hearing and speech
5 - Divine Gift
6 - Mechitech Armor Minor Augmentation
7 - Divine Gift
8 - Mechitech Armor +2, vision
9 - Divine Gift
10 - Mechitech Armor Minor Augmentation
11 - Divine Gift
12 - Mechitech Armor +3, 60 ft darkvision
13 - Divine Gift
14 - Mechitech Armor Major Augmentation
15 - Divine Gift
16 - Mechitech Armor +4, 60 feet blindsense
17 - Divine Gift
18 - Mechitech Armor Major Augmentation
19 - Divine Gift
20 - Mechitech Armor +5, 60 feet telepathy, Special Purpose

Construct Empathy: You may use your Magitech Paladin level + your Con score as a check to effect the attitudes of any construct, following the same rules as Wild Empathy.

Lay on Hands: Healing pool per day equal to your Paladin level * Con bonus. You may use this power to heal, to repair (any construct or your armor), or to make a positive energy touch attack. You may use this ability on yourself or your armor as a Swift Action. You may heal someone else as a Move action. You may make a positive energy touch attack against an enemy as a Standard Action.

Mechitech Armor: At 3rd level you gain a suit of sentient armor. It is of masterwork quality, and made of any material you wish. You may choose any type of armor that you wish. It has an Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores equal to your Magitech Paladin level, and follows similar rules as an intelligent weapon (www.rpgoracle.com/srd/magicItemsICA.html). It has an alignment of Lawful Good. If you ever fail in your Paladin code, the armor ceases to function for you until you atone. It's ability to perceive the world and communicate with you improve with your levels. If its ever destroyed, you must go on a special side quest to replace it.

At 4th level, it gains a +1 enhancement bonus to armor class. At 6th and 10th levels, it gains a minor power. Your armor may use these abilities independently on your turn, just as an intelligent weapon could. At 14th and 18th levels, it gains any greater power. At 20th level, it gains a special purpose and one dedicated power.

Divine Gift: At 5th level and every odd level thereafter, you gain one of the following abilities:

Divine Health (Disease): You become immune to all disease, including magical and supernatural diseases.

Divine Health (Poison): You become immune to all poison, including magical and supernatural poisons.

Divine Health (Fortification): You gain 20% Fortification. You may take this gift up to five times, and its effects stack.

Divine Health (Age): Requires 100% Fortification. You no longer age, are immune to all effects that age you, and no longer take the penalties of old age. You are also immune to all Death effects.

Divine Stability: Requires 100% Fortification. You gain your Con bonus as a bonus to resist all Bull Rush, Overrun, Trip, and Grapple attempts.

Divine Grace (Fort): You gain your Con bonus as a supernatural bonus to your Fort Save (in addition to the normal bonus derived from Con). This ability does not stack with any ability that grants you a bonus to Fort Saves from any other class or prestige class, such as a Paladin.

Divine Grace (Will): You gain your Con bonus as a supernatural bonus to your Will Save (in addition to the normal bonus derived from Wis). This ability does not stack with any ability that grants you a bonus to Will Saves from any other class or prestige class, such as a Paladin or a Crusader.

Divine Grace (Ref): You gain your Con bonus as a supernatural bonus to your Ref Save (in addition to the normal bonus derived from Wis). This ability does not stack with any ability that grants you a bonus to Ref Saves from any other class or prestige class, such as a Paladin.

Divine Damage Reduction: Requires Divine Grace (Fort): You gain DR 1/-. This ability stacks with any damage reduction from Magitech Armor, such as if the armor is made of adamantine. You may take this ability multiple times, and it stacks with itself, but not with DR from any source other then itself and your armor.

Divine Mettle: Requires Divine Grace (Fort and Will): You gain the Mettle ability.

Divine Reflexes: You may treat your Mechitech Armor as if it were one category lighter. For example, heavy armor would count as medium, and medium armor would count as light. This ability stacks with the benefits of Mithril Armor.

Divine Evasion: Requires Divine Reflexes, light Mechitech Armor: You gain the Evasion ability. This ability only functions while in Mechitech Armor that counts as being light armor (medium armor + Divine Reflexes, or Heavy Mithril armor + Divine Reflexes).

Aura of Courage (Fear): You gain immunity to all fear effects.

Aura of Courage (Charm): You gain immunity to all Charm effects.

Aura of Courage (Compulsion): Requires Aura of Courage (Fear and Charm): You gain immunity to all Compulsion Effects.

Divine Mind: Aura of Courage (Compulsion) and Divine Grace (Will): You gain immunity to all mind effecting and illusion effects and spells. This allows you to automatically see through Invisibility, disbelieve any Illusion, etc.

[graymachine]

Hey, 17 posts before "Paladins suck, play a Crusader". More than expected.

Don't get me wrong, Crusader is a much better-designed class. I just have more fun trying to play around with my old friend the Paladin sometimes.

Me too. I really don't like ToB that much.

[graymachine]

How about this:


Magitech Paladin
d12 hit points
4 Skill Points per level, Paladin list
Strong Will and Fort Saves

1 - Aura of Good, Detect Evil, Construct Empathy
2 - Lay on Hands
3 - Mechitech Armor
4 - Mechitech Armor +1, hearing and speech
5 - Divine Gift
6 - Mechitech Armor Minor Augmentation
7 - Divine Gift
8 - Mechitech Armor +2, vision
9 - Divine Gift
10 - Mechitech Armor Minor Augmentation
11 - Divine Gift
12 - Mechitech Armor +3, 60 ft darkvision
13 - Divine Gift
14 - Mechitech Armor Major Augmentation
15 - Divine Gift
16 - Mechitech Armor +4, 60 feet blindsense
17 - Divine Gift
18 - Mechitech Armor Major Augmentation
19 - Divine Gift
20 - Mechitech Armor +5, 60 feet telepathy, Special Purpose

Construct Empathy: You may use your Magitech Paladin level + your Con score as a check to effect the attitudes of any construct, following the same rules as Wild Empathy.

Lay on Hands: Healing pool per day equal to your Paladin level * Con bonus. You may use this power to heal, to repair (any construct or your armor), or to make a positive energy touch attack. You may use this ability on yourself or your armor as a Swift Action. You may heal someone else as a Move action. You may make a positive energy touch attack against an enemy as a Standard Action.

Mechitech Armor: At 3nd level you gain a suit of sentient armor. It is of masterwork quality, and made of any material you wish. You may choose any type of armor that you wish. It has an Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores equal to your Magitech Paladin level, and follows similar rules as an intelligent weapon (www.rpgoracle.com/srd/magicItemsICA.html). It has an alignment of Lawful Good. If you ever fail in your Paladin code, the armor ceases to function for you until you atone. It's ability to perceive the world and communicate with you improve with your levels. If its ever destroyed, you must go on a special side quest to replace it.

At 4th level, it gains a +1 enhancement bonus to armor class. At 6th and 10th levels, it gains a minor power. Your armor may use these abilities independently on your turn, just as an intelligent weapon could. At 14th and 18th levels, it gains any greater power. At 20th level, it gains a special purpose and one dedicated power.

Divine Gift: At 5th level and every odd level thereafter, you gain one of the following abilities:

Divine Health (Disease): You become immune to all disease, including magical and supernatural diseases.

Divine Health (Poison): You become immune to all poison, including magical and supernatural poisons.

Divine Health (Fortification): You gain 20% Fortification. You may take this gift up to five times, and its effects stack.

Divine Health (Age): Requires 100% Fortification. You no longer age, are immune to all effects that age you, and no longer take the penalties of old age. You are also immune to all Death effects.

Divine Stability: Requires 100% Fortification. You gain your Con bonus as a bonus to resist all Bull Rush, Overrun, Trip, and Grapple attempts.

Divine Grace (Fort): You gain your Con bonus as a supernatural bonus to your Fort Save (in addition to the normal bonus derived from Con). This ability does not stack with any ability that grants you a bonus to Fort Saves from any other class or prestige class, such as a Paladin.

Divine Grace (Will): You gain your Con bonus as a supernatural bonus to your Will Save (in addition to the normal bonus derived from Wis). This ability does not stack with any ability that grants you a bonus to Will Saves from any other class or prestige class, such as a Paladin or a Crusader.

Divine Grace (Ref): You gain your Con bonus as a supernatural bonus to your Ref Save (in addition to the normal bonus derived from Wis). This ability does not stack with any ability that grants you a bonus to Ref Saves from any other class or prestige class, such as a Paladin.

Divine Damage Reduction: Requires Divine Grace (Fort): You gain DR 1/-. This ability stacks with any damage reduction from Magitech Armor, such as if the armor is made of adamantine. You may take this ability multiple times, and it stacks with itself, but not with DR from any source other then itself and your armor.

Divine Mettle: Requires Divine Grace (Fort and Will): You gain the Mettle ability.

Divine Reflexes: You may treat your Mechitech Armor as if it were one category lighter. For example, heavy armor would count as medium, and medium armor would count as light. This ability stacks with the benefits of Mithril Armor.

Divine Evasion: Requires Divine Reflexes, light Mechitech Armor: You gain the Evasion ability. This ability only functions while in Mechitech Armor that counts as being light armor (medium armor + Divine Reflexes, or Heavy Mithril armor + Divine Reflexes).

Aura of Courage (Fear): You gain immunity to all fear effects.

Aura of Courage (Charm): You gain immunity to all Charm effects.

Aura of Courage (Compulsion): Requires Aura of Courage (Fear and Charm): You gain immunity to all Compulsion Effects.

Divine Mind: Aura of Courage (Compulsion) and Divine Grace (Will): You gain immunity to all mind effecting and illusion effects and spells. This allows you to automatically see through Invisibility, disbelieve any Illusion, etc.


Very nice.

[Person_Man]

OK, so I've greatly expanded and re-balanced my homebrew Magitech Paladin and posted it here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5318246) so as not to derail this thread. Thoughts?