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afroakuma
2008-11-17, 06:43 PM
Alright folks, I'm at it again with another project on Homebrew for D&D 3.5.

This time, I'm doing the plane of the Beastlands, and my inspiration has been Australian Aboriginal legend, "The Dreaming" or "Dreamtime".

Trouble is, I'm getting conflicting information and I'd like to do the culture justice.

If anyone out there is Australian or knows any Australian mythology, please let me know.

Thanks!

Rei_Jin
2008-11-17, 06:50 PM
*Waves*

Heya, I'm Australian, grew up in the bush and know a lot of the legends. What in specific did you want to know?

afroakuma
2008-11-17, 06:53 PM
Anything related to the afterlife, first and foremost.

Secondly, any mythological creatures.

Thirdly, any Dreaming traditions that would carry over into a planar setting. ...that reads as vague. How about: what elements of the Dreaming are consistent such that they form a mythological landscape, the way Greek or Norse mythology did?

Rei_Jin
2008-11-17, 06:58 PM
Hmmm... try this then, it's a pretty accurate account as far as things go for a starting point.

I'll throw in some stuff about Mythical creatures in a bit.



THE DREAMTIME

According to Aboriginal belief, all life as it is today - Human, Animal, Bird and Fish is part of one vast unchanging network of relationships which can be traced to the great spirit ancestors of the Dreamtime.

The Dreamtime continues as the "Dreaming" in the spiritual lives of aboriginal people today. The events of the ancient era of creation are enacted in ceremonies and danced in mime form. Song chant incessantly to the accompaniment of the didgeridoo or clap sticks relates the story of events of those early times and brings to the power of the dreaming to bear of life today.



THE SACRED WORLD

The Dreamtime is the Aboriginal understanding of the world, of it's creation, and it's great stories. The Dreamtime is the beginning of knowledge, from which came the laws of existence. For survival these laws must be observed.

The Dreaming world was the old time of the Ancestor Beings. They emerged from the earth at the time of the creation. Time began in the world the moment these supernatural beings were "born out of their own Eternity".

The Earth was a flat surface, in darkness. A dead, silent world. Unknown forms of life were asleep, below the surface of the land. Then the supernatural Ancestor Beings broke through the crust of the earth from below, with tumultuous force.

The sun rose out of the ground. The land received light for the first time.

The supernatural Beings, or Totemic Ancestors, resembled creatures or plants, and were half human. They moved across the barren surface of the world. They travelled hunted and fought, and changed the form of the land. In their journeys, they created the landscape, the mountains, the rivers, the trees, waterholes, plains and sandhills. They made the people themselves, who are descendants of the Dreamtime ancestors. They made the Ant, Grasshopper, Emu, Eagle, Crow, Parrot, Wallaby, Kangaroo, Lizard, Snake, and all food plants. They made the natural elements : Water, Air, Fire. They made all the celestial bodies : the Sun, the Moon and the Stars. Then, wearied from all their activity, the mythical creatures sank back into the earth and returned to their state of sleep.

Sometimes their spirits turned into rocks or trees or a part of the landscape. These became sacred places, to be seen only by initiated men. These sites had special qualities.


THE RAINBOW SERPENT

Far off in Dreamtime, there were only people, no animals or birds, no trees or bushes, no hills or mountains.

The country was flat. Goorialla, the great Rainbow Serpent, stirred and set off to look for his own tribe. He travelled across Australia from South to North. He reached Cape York where he stopped and made a big red mountain called Naralullgan. He listened to the wind and heard only voices speaking strange languages.

This is not my country, the people here speak a different tongue. I must look for my own people. Goorialla left Naralullgan and his huge body made a deep gorge where he came down. He travelled North for many days and his tracks made the creeks and rivers as he journeyed North. Goorialla made two more mountains, one of the Naradunga was long made of granite, the other had sharp peaks and five caves and was called, Minalinha. One day Goorialla heard singing and said, "Those are my people, they are holding a big Bora." At the meeting place of the two rivers, Goorialla found his own people singing and dancing. He watched for a long time, then he came out and was welcomed by his people. He showed the men how to dress properly and taught them to dance. A big storm was gathering, so all the people built humpies for shelter.

Two young men, the bil-bil or Rainbow Lorikeet brothers came looking for shelter but no one had any room. They asked their grandmother, the Star Woman but she had too many dogs and couldn't help them. the Bil-bil brothers went to Goorialla who was snoring in his humpy but he had no room. The rain got heavier and the boys went back to Goorialla and called out that the rain was heavy. Goorialla said, "All right come in now." The Bil-bil bothers ran into Goorialla's mouth and he swallowed them. Then he began to worry about what the people would say when they found the boys missing. He decided to travel North to Bora-bunaru, the only great natural mountain in the land. Next morning the people found that the boys were gone and saw the tracks of Goorialla and knew that he had swallowed them.

You may never see these lakes or mountains, but after the rain you will see his spirit in the sky , which is the rainbow. This is the reason why he is called Goorialla the Rainbow Serpent.

afroakuma
2008-11-17, 07:17 PM
Ant, Grasshopper, Emu, Eagle, Crow, Parrot, Wallaby, Kangaroo, Lizard, Snake

Is this a definitive list of important totems, or just an artistic contraction of the infinite species?


Water, Air, Fire

Is Earth not a traditional Australian element?

Rei_Jin
2008-11-17, 07:27 PM
Earth is sacred, as all things come from the earth, and return there. It was there before everything else, and will be there after. So, it's not one of their traditional elements, no.

In regards to questions about totem creatures, and other elements of the culture, it's... complicated.

Unlike many other cultures, the Australian Aboriginal Culture has no "one true" set of stories or histories.

I can give you two different links right now to aboriginal stories. They'll tell a story about the same creature or person, but it will be completely different in what happens, and the location.

As you probably already know, the aboriginals were, and still are, nomadic. They didn't really talk much between tribes (except when absolutely neccessary) and they had no written history. Their tradition is oral and paintings.

So, when someone told a story, it was told for their tribe. Then eventually, another tribe would hear the story and adapt it to themselves, so that it made sense to them.

They used their stories to explain how the natural world around them came to be the way it is, how rivers and mountains were made, how different creatures came to be.

afroakuma
2008-11-17, 07:52 PM
Excellent; just wanted the clarification before I send a fleet of elemental spirits in. :smallbiggrin:

Are there a set of reasonably consistent/familiar totems? At all?

Anyway, this stuff is great. Looking forward to mythical creatures. :smallsmile:

Rei_Jin
2008-11-17, 08:05 PM
You may find this link helpful, it's an official Australian Government Document explaining traditional Aboriginal society and beliefs. Really thorough, deals with all aspects (asides from stories) of the culture

Link (http://www.aija.org.au/online/ICABenchbook/BenchbookChapter2.pdf)

The rest of the book that it comes from deals with modern Aboriginal society and culture, and how this relates to court proceedings, sentencing, and so forth. It was written for the court system in the state of Western Australia.

afroakuma
2008-11-17, 08:08 PM
Excellent! This should help a lot!

Were there any mythical creatures you could think of? Or would they be in this document?

revolver kobold
2008-11-17, 08:26 PM
Some of the more well known mythical creatures are the Bunyip and the Yowie. Im at work at the moment, so i don't have info on hand about them, and chances are Rei-Jin could probably tell you more about them (judging from his track record so far).

A quick google search should give up some good info on both of them though.

Rei_Jin
2008-11-17, 08:30 PM
Well, with mythical creatures, it depends on what you're after.

There is the Rainbow Serpent, which I already posted about.


THE BUNYIP

In the Dreamtime, the Bunyip was a spirit which inhabited river, lakes, swamps, and billabongs (former parts of rivers that were left behind when the course of the river was altered). Like other beasts in the Dreamtime, the Bunyip was malevolent towards human beings. The Bunyip would defend it's watery home from all who invaded it, normally devouring the invader. At night the Bunyip was said to go and prey upon women and children. Because the Bunyip was such a threat to the Aborigines of the time whenever its terrifying bellowing cry was heard Aborigines steered clear of any water sources.

To the Aborigines the Bunyip was a beast of many different shapes and sizes. Some Bunyips were covered in feathers; some even had scales like crocodiles. Common features in most Aboriginal drawings of Bunyips are a horse-like tail, flippers, and tusks like the ones found on walruses.


TIDDILIK, THE GIANT FROG

In the Dreamtime, Kwork Kwork, the green frog was Mother of the Monsoon & Mother of the Waters. During a drought a young man threatened to kill her unless she brought rain. Kwork Kwork called on the spirits, and produced a great flood to drown the man. The biggest frog in the world, Tiddilik saved the man by drinking up the flood, leaving the earth in drought again. The animals solved the drought problem by making Tiddilik laugh - as he laughed all the water came out to create the rivers and lakes.

Then, you have totems.

Totems can be almost ANYTHING. Each tribe had its own totem animal, a spirit ancestor that they saw as theirs to protect. They couldn't eat of that animal, and they believed that when they died that their spirits go to the totem. Hence, you don't attack the totem, because you may be killing your father or brother who passed on.

In addition to tribal totems, each individual has a birth totem. Often it was something that their mother came across when she was pregnant with them. If she craved a particular type of food, or had a lizard cross her path and she thought it was important, she could declare that to be her childs birth totem.

Birth totems are different to tribal totems as it is not forbidden to eat them. It is something that ties the person to the spirits, so if someone became a shaman then they may eat more of their totem to try and give them insight.

Rei_Jin
2008-11-17, 08:34 PM
Here's some links for stories. Remember that they differ from tribe to tribe, so they will tell conflicting tales.


Link 1 (http://www.didjshop.com/stories/index.php)

Link 2 (http://www.dreamtime.net.au/dreaming/storylist.htm)

Rei_Jin
2008-11-17, 08:48 PM
The big thing with Australia is that there weren't that many mythological creatures. There were creatures from the Dreamtime, but other than that, they didn't need them. Australian animals and plants are deadly enough and weird enough that they didn't need to make anything up.

Come on, we have the Platypus!

afroakuma
2008-11-17, 09:08 PM
Which is a surprisingly vicious beast.

Well, I think I can adapt a bunyip fairly rapidly. Oddly enough, I find myself familiar with the story of Tiddilik... although from a North American source. Might have been a compilation of folktales...

Alright, well, I have the Wagyl already; I think I'll also incorporate totem reverence into the locals of the Beastlands, which will make cultural locations more interesting.

Lastly, are there any legendary locations in Australian myth? Sacred regions?

Rei_Jin
2008-11-17, 09:15 PM
Heaps and heaps.

Uluru and Kata Tjuta in the Northern Territory are the most famous ones, but every tribe has sacred places.

They can be almost anywhere you think of. A place where only men or women are allowed to gather, where the dead are buried, somewhere special to their totem, or part of their stories about the Dreamtime, all of these are places that are sacred.

afroakuma
2008-11-17, 09:16 PM
Well, this is excellent! This should give me enough to provide a decent flavor in my project.

Thank you, Rei_Jin, revolver kobold.

revolver kobold
2008-11-17, 09:26 PM
I can tell you that as a kid, growing up in Tom Price (mining town in the far north of West Australian, for those who don't know), the Bunyip used to scare the hell out of me. Between learning all about it in pre-primary, watching Dot and the Kangaroo, and finding rock paintings of bunyips in the local creeks and caves, I was terrified of it.

When I get home tonight, I'll see what I can dig up in regards to myths about the some of the places near Perth. The Nyoongar people have a few good legends about the places here, I just can't remember them off the top of my head. Hopefully I'll be able to post them up here tonight.

Prometheus
2008-11-17, 10:15 PM
I'm not from Australia, but now I've snuck into this thread and heard the secrets of the Aborigines!

OverdrivePrime
2008-11-17, 11:51 PM
I'm just a frequent visitor of the magnificent Oz, and I want to remind you to not forget to include the infamous drop bear (http://www.geocities.com/muirnin/db.htm) on your list of mythical creatures and magical beasts!

Haikiah
2008-11-17, 11:52 PM
A non-Australian? SIEZE HIM!

Kidding. This thread is for information about Australia, not necessarily for Australia.

It's amazing what one can learn about their own country by reading obscure forum posts.

About all I remember is the story of TIDDILIK. That was one hardcore amphibian.

Rei-Jin knows his stuff. I'd love to see the finished homebrew when you're done, afroakuma.

EDIT: Ah, the drop bear. Vegemite keeps it at bay.
EDIT EDIT: "Aquatic Drop Bear". Oh dear god, we're all doomed.

afroakuma
2008-11-17, 11:54 PM
Haikiah: I'll be incorporating this material into my Beastlands project, along with some other native mythologies and adapted material from earlier editions.

The project is currently linked in my sig.

xanaphia
2008-11-18, 02:54 AM
Just to note, the culture is also radically different. In normal D&D, the tech level is medieval. The Aboriginals never got past hunter-gatherer.

Cheesegear
2008-11-18, 03:00 AM
Hoop-Snakes and Drop Bears. For sure.

Also, Australia is quite well known for it's (natural) Megafauna (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_megafauna). Any mammals you incorporate into the setting should be the size of elephants.

Crocodiles. Of course.

Don't forget StingDeathrays!

Dhavaer
2008-11-18, 03:55 AM
I remember reading about a kind of monster that moves by bouncing and eats children. I think they also had a less evil counterpart, but I'm not sure what they did. The book was a picture book with two Aboriginal myths, one of them was the Rainbow Snake myth, the other had these bouncy things. Has anyone else read the book, and can remember what the bouncy monsters were called?

bosssmiley
2008-11-18, 04:41 AM
Using a modified version of Summon Nature's Ally - known as Summon Nature's Aussie (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Australian_zoologists) - invokes Rolf Harris (SNA IV) or Steve Irwin (SNA VIII). Oh, wait. Was that not the question? :smallamused:

Aboriginal mythology. I got nothing. My knowledge of Australian myth is limited to "Dot and the Kangaroo" and "Bottersnikes and Gumbles". You could just go for the archetypal talking animals schtick with additional Dreamtime hallucinatory transformations goodness.

Cheesegear
2008-11-18, 05:28 AM
Oooh...Don't forget The Banksia Men. Magic Puddings (and talking penguins and koalas), and Possum Magic.

Also, Muddle Headed Wombats might feature.

BobVosh
2008-11-18, 05:39 AM
EDIT: Ah, the drop bear. Vegemite keeps it at bay.
EDIT EDIT: "Aquatic Drop Bear". Oh dear god, we're all doomed.


Other than austrilians, what DOESN'T vegemite keep away? *shudders*

Dhavaer
2008-11-18, 05:49 AM
Other than austrilians, what DOESN'T vegemite keep away? *shudders*

The British. Although I think they call it Marmite.

DisgruntledFrog
2008-11-18, 06:04 AM
I remember a kid's book and TV series called The Nargun and the Stars that had some great critters. They were inspired by Aboriginal myth but not pure to the source.

The Nargun in the story was a great big moving piece of granite. I remember it being scary in an ominous sense and that they had to get rid of it before people got hurt. All the spirits wanted it gone for various reasons. There's a bit about the Nargun myth here; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nargun

Then there was the Potkoorok, a tricksy Yoda look alike that lived in the swamp and talked to the kid a fair bit. I remember it having magical powers but not exactly what. Made you see things I think. There were also Turongs that lived in the trees and I think some creatures that lived in the rocks as well. And some glowing fairy like ones but I can't remember what they were called (they were the stars from the title). All very fey.

I'll post more if I remember...

Ethdred
2008-11-18, 06:46 AM
The British. Although I think they call it Marmite.

WRONG!!! BURN THE HERETIC!!!!! Marmite and Vegemite are completely different - as I found out when introduced to Vegemite and told it was just like Marmite. For the life of me I can't remember what the differences are, but they didn't taste alike!

The Bunyip was in the 1st edition Fiend Folio, so you may be able to find it statted out somewhere - though probably as a less scary version from the original.

I highly recommend reading Terry Pratchett's The Last Continent for a (tongue in cheek) fantasy take on Australia - among other useful tidbits it finally explains how the platypus came to be.

Decoy69
2008-11-18, 06:56 AM
Just remember that most creatures/plants/rocks down here is probably able to kill a normal person...In between 1 hour and 1 minute. Oh, and pretty much everything else is either toxic, spiky, or on fire.
But we're all very relaxed and easygoing. :smallbiggrin:

P.S. Beware the Wombat...

Rei_Jin
2008-11-18, 04:52 PM
*Nods*

Wombats are normally slow moving and heavy, but can run at up to 40km/hour for up to 90 seconds.

If you disturb one and it feels threatened, they will lay you out.

Also, if you hit one with your car, expect to break an axle.

revolver kobold
2008-11-18, 07:03 PM
Don't go crawling into their burrows either.

They get underneath you, arch their back and crush you death. Dogs that go down occupied wombat burrows tend not to come back out.