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Fendalus
2008-11-17, 11:02 PM
Ok, my group and I have come across a slight problem. The NPC/DM's girlfriend's PC has been captured by a large group of Troglodytes, who also have 4 others captive (two or more of which might end up being PC's, depending on if the people decide to join). So some how we need to break into their cave and get the captives, and hopefully take out as many Troglodytes as we can in the process.

Unfortunately, our Party is level 1-2, and there are about 30 Troglodytes, 15 monitor lizards, and 60 Troglodytes non-combatants. 6 of the Troglodytes are higher up among them, one (the leader) has a glowing sword. Most of this information is from a Troglodytes we managed to take captive on our way there.

Party members:
Wizard (Me) just reached level 2, still have to update character. Conjurer (Evocation and Enchantment banned).
Druid, also just reached level 2, is not very optimized. He has a Camel for a Animal Companion (two hump)
Fighter/Sorcerer just multiclassed into Sorcerer, character level 2. Uses spiked chain, plans on getting protective sorcerer spells.
Cleric of Pelor, unknown character level, he might have leveled up. I don't know his domains...
Horseback Archery Ranger, level 1 (has backup weapon of longsword)
Dwarf Monk, level 1. Likes to grapple targets.

Any help would be appreciated.

Rei_Jin
2008-11-17, 11:04 PM
If they're in a cave, best thing I can recommend is to get the druid to find out (Via Speak with Animals or something similar) if the cave is sealed and only has one exit. If this is the case, then build a big fire at the entrance and smoke them out.

Once they run out, they fall into your cunning traps and pitfalls you've set up, ready for them.

Fendalus
2008-11-17, 11:19 PM
Well, we do have two monitor lizards that the Druid befriended. And I think that there is a bake door, as one of the (rather pathetic) plans that the group fighter came up with was to creep in, through the trapped back passage, and then run screaming into a giant melee. I HATE fighter plans... Also, we somehow managed to snag a wand of invisibility, but I don't know who we should use it on, if anyone.

Also, my spell list, if it helps:
Grease
Mage Armor
Color Spray (not using this, every single will save an enemy has had to make against this they pass... at DC15. It's cursed, I tells ya!)
Silent Image
Enlarge Person
Protection from Evil
Lesser Orb of Electircity

And then two core Spells I haven't decided on yet.

newbDM
2008-11-17, 11:24 PM
If they're in a cave, best thing I can recommend is to get the druid to find out (Via Speak with Animals or something similar) if the cave is sealed and only has one exit. If this is the case, then build a big fire at the entrance and smoke them out.

Once they run out, they fall into your cunning traps and pitfalls you've set up, ready for them.

That is brilliant. Must make mental not of this.


Anyway, what alignments are your party members? What will be your thoughts about the 60 or so noncombatants, which I am guessing many of which are women, children, elderly, and non-aggressive/non-combatant males?

Harp
2008-11-17, 11:36 PM
Additionally, it seems like the DM has handed you a stacked encounter, meaning that the traditional method of resolving the issue (killing all of your enemies) is not realistically possible.

What may happen is when you get there, the Troglodytes will be willing to talk and reason with you to a certain extent. Assuming the characters perform some task they themselves aren't keen about, it may mean the release of the captives.

That said, trogs don't tend to be very popular what with their evilness, charisma penalties, and nasty stench. They could very well have an angry neighbor that could be recruited into helping you get rid of them.

If it comes to a fight, trogs are fairly hardy opponents what with their natural attacks, high natural AC, and hefty constitution bonus. With a move speed of 20 ft, you should be willing to use hit and run tactics against them. Use this to formulate an attack strategy with your party.

As the wizard, you should attempt to employ spells that hit their Will Save so your party can fight against disabled opponents. Their Con bonus means a fair Fort save and their high HP prevent other spells from being the most effective use of your spell slots. Color Spray followed by Cause Fear are your best options considering you banned Enchantment. If possible, the Fighter/Sorcerer should also try to provoke Will saves before closing for melee (more than likely you'll have to make a scroll or two especially for this purpose). If you can bottleneck them, you might be able to abuse them a bit with Grease and ranged attacks (or at least get some battlefield control). Suggest to the Druid that he uses Entangle while others use ranged attacks. While the Cleric is capable of preparing spells that provoke Will saves, you'll likely need his healing abilities more than anything else.

I hope it helps.

RS14
2008-11-17, 11:39 PM
If they're in a cave, best thing I can recommend is to get the druid to find out (Via Speak with Animals or something similar) if the cave is sealed and only has one exit. If this is the case, then build a big fire at the entrance and smoke them out.
And what of the prisoners?

Harp
2008-11-17, 11:39 PM
Oh, the wand changes things. Assuming the Trogs are not at all alarmed or carefully watching the slave pens, you should give it to the character with the highest Move Silent, have them sneak in and use it on the captives, then have everyone escape invisibly. This prevents you from having to get into much trouble and keeps the perhaps unprepared prisoners relatively safe.

Prometheus
2008-11-17, 11:40 PM
Anyway, what alignments are your party members? What will be your thoughts about the 60 or so noncombatants, which I am guessing many of which are women, children, elderly, and non-aggressive/non-combatant males? Apparently my alignment is off because I thought of the exact same thing. Prisoner exchange sounds like the way to go.

Alternatively, find a similarly nasty and brutish clan of monstrous humanoids and see if you can turn the one against the other by offering you aid to the rival clan while appearing hidden from the troglodytes (so they believe the recent aggression is unrelated to their humanoid prisoners).

Rei_Jin
2008-11-17, 11:42 PM
And what of the prisoners?

Well, you get someone to use the wand of invisibility to sneak in, they then use it on the prisoners during the rush to escape. Those who are not Troglodytes and are caught in the cave choose to stick in the corners and lie down, crawling to the exit of the cave so as to breathe sweet, sweet oxygen.

Thus, they come out aware of what is going on, and avoid the pitfalls and traps.

JeminiZero
2008-11-17, 11:45 PM
Unfortunately, since there are hostages to consider, it is rather difficult for you to nuke the cave (e.g. fill it with oil and set it on fire). At your low level, your limited selection of spells means you don't have a lot of options either. If the entire cave is ever empty or everyone inside is asleep, you might be able to sneak in and free the hostages.

Failing that, I see a couple of possibilities:

1) Snipe and Run: Ambush and pick off the troglodytes one by one when they leave the cave to go hunting, answer natures call. Use traps as needed. Run away (through areas you have trapped) if they call for reinforcements. Guerilla warfare at its finest.

Pros: If you do it right, there will be minimal danger to yourself.
Cons: Takes a long time. The Troglodytes may slaughter the hostages in anger.

2) Distraction and Grab: Watch the cave. Figure out the time when most of the trogos are out hunting or whatever. Create a distraction that flushes the remaining trogos out of the cave (e.g. disguise one party memeber as a trogo and have him run in, say the rest of the trogos has been ambushed and ask all the others to follow him). Once the cave is empty, run in, grab the hostages and high tail.

Pros: Probably the quickest easiest Way.
Cons: If the ruse is discovered, prepare for TPK.

3) Abuse Magic Items: Burn your money on magic items for a rescue operation. If you use the cave entrance(s) as bottlenecks, the Druid, Cleric, can spam Wands of Summoning to blockade them for a couple of minutes, while the Wiz and Sorc can spam wands with offensive/debuff spells to kill/cripple the trogos, as the summons hold them off. Spamming sleep, may be especially effective if you can get summons that are immune to sleep via splatbooks. Altenratively, as mentioned above, sneaking the prisoners out invisible may work too.

Pros: Correctly planned and executed, you incur minimal risk, and have a good chance of success.
Cons: Burns gold.

newbDM
2008-11-17, 11:49 PM
Apparently my alignment is off because I thought of the exact same thing. Prisoner exchange sounds like the way to go.

Alternatively, find a similarly nasty and brutish clan of monstrous humanoids and see if you can turn the one against the other by offering you aid to the rival clan while appearing hidden from the troglodytes (so they believe the recent aggression is unrelated to their humanoid prisoners).

Well, I wasn't thinking of the exact same thing.

I was thinking more on the lines of not hurting the innocent, especially considering the cleric of Pelor.

bosssmiley
2008-11-18, 05:25 AM
Tell them there's a two-for-one offer on cheap liquor and smokes at the local VII-XI. Try to avoid the stampede.

What? It works on Trog. :smallamused:

Bayar
2008-11-18, 05:52 AM
Apparently, your DM gave you a wand for this mission, so it is preety obvious what you should do:

Cast it on yourself, send the monk to the entrance so that he can taunt the trogs by bragging about his class skills, sneak into the cave while the trogs chase/eviscerate the monk, cast invisibility on hostages, escape.

The most economic plan. You lose a monk but gain something better. And if those guys dont show up, you give one NPC to the x monk. :smallbiggrin:

BobVosh
2008-11-18, 06:10 AM
1. Send Diplomancer to town with wand.
2. Sell it.
3. Send Diplomancer+Cash to Cave.
4. Diplomancer diplomances.
5. Get Mother, loss some cash.
6. ???
7. Profit.

Santiago
2008-11-18, 06:14 AM
Find a way to poison their water supply from the outside source. That's how caves usually are.

The poison doesn't have to be lethal either, anything that will buy you time to get your buds out.

newbDM
2008-11-18, 06:22 AM
Find a way to poison their water supply from the outside source. That's how caves usually are.

The poison doesn't have to be lethal either, anything that will buy you time to get your buds out.

Hm. If you have fought any drow lately, this could be a fine option.

BobVosh
2008-11-18, 07:12 AM
Find a way to poison their water supply from the outside source. That's how caves usually are.

The poison doesn't have to be lethal either, anything that will buy you time to get your buds out.

Shouldn't be lethal, as it is what your friend is drinking.

Oh, I forgot to mention: DM Girlfriends characters can't die. She will be fine.

Fendalus
2008-11-18, 09:34 AM
Wow, I was not expecting so many responses...

Fist, the fighter is CE, Cleric is NG, Druid is CN, Monk is LN, Ranger is NG, and I'm N. Race-wise, Fighter is a Human, Cleric is a Human, Druid is a Half-Orc, Monk is a Dwarf, Ranger is an Elf, and I'm a Halfling. So killing the inoccents is not likely to go down well... Also, we are several days from any nearby towns, and have very little gold, so magic Items (other thatn the Wand of Invisibility) are out.

Good/bad news, the cave is one main chamber, 6 side ones, only one exit. Although this is from the captive, so it could be wrong... Also, most (read: Fighter, Druid, Ranger, Monk, possibly cleric) are unoptimized. I'm not really optimized either, and there are no Diplomamancers with us... We do have a set of horses, a cart, and a couple of javalins and clubs from the earlier fight with the Troglodytes.

Starbuck_II
2008-11-18, 11:06 AM
Wow, I was not expecting so many responses...

Fist, the fighter is CE, Cleric is NG, Druid is CN, Monk is LN, Ranger is NG, and I'm N. Race-wise, Fighter is a Human, Cleric is a Human, Druid is a Half-Orc, Monk is a Dwarf, Ranger is an Elf, and I'm a Halfling. So killing the inoccents is not likely to go down well... Also, we are several days from any nearby towns, and have very little gold, so magic Items (other thatn the Wand of Invisibility) are out.

Good/bad news, the cave is one main chamber, 6 side ones, only one exit. Although this is from the captive, so it could be wrong... Also, most (read: Fighter, Druid, Ranger, Monk, possibly cleric) are unoptimized. I'm not really optimized either, and there are no Diplomamancers with us... We do have a set of horses, a cart, and a couple of javalins and clubs from the earlier fight with the Troglodytes.

Can you cast Reist fire? Holocuast cloak idea.
You'll need a wheel barrel and some tall dude like a giant...enlarge person might work.

Then recreate the scene to the Princess Bride:
Assuming there are any tales of the Deadly Dread Pirate Roberts!

Charity
2008-11-18, 11:32 AM
Chuck in a big bar of soap.

ChaosDefender24
2008-11-18, 02:28 PM
The DM either expects you to be captured, or wants you to be stealthy. In either case, I'd send a stealthy party member in to watch how the prisoners are guarded, and work from there.

Worst-case scenario: Do something with Silent Image to distract them

Mephit
2008-11-18, 05:41 PM
I'd like to link to that strip of Chainmail Bikini where the characters just sit and wait until the goblins run out of food, but it's late, so I'll let someone else do it...

MeklorIlavator
2008-11-18, 05:54 PM
The problem is that the Trogs could overwhelm the party, something the goblins could not do in chainmail bikini.

Rei_Jin
2008-11-18, 05:58 PM
I'd like to link to that strip of Chainmail Bikini where the characters just sit and wait until the goblins run out of food, but it's late, so I'll let someone else do it...

Ah, but the problem with that idea is that they DO have a source of food you don't want them to eat.

The Prisoners.

You need to force them out into the open where you have prepared to take them on.

Also, throwing Caltrops onto the floor of the cave as they escape might work nicely to slow them down.

I still say to go for the fire and smoke them out idea. Heck, if you can get them all in the hole, then you can force them to negotiate - Their freedom for the prisoners returned unharmed.

Prometheus
2008-11-18, 09:45 PM
I was thinking more on the lines of not hurting the innocent, especially considering the cleric of Pelor. Well it is clear now that it won't work for this party, but my opinion (I'll not derail this thread into an alignment debate) is that taking hostages can be CG or NN if you don't intend to kill them.

It is clear what the DM wants you guys to do is use the wand of invisibility and make your way through with stealth checks, illusions & charm spells, and tying up and gagging the occasional guard. It is a touch of railroading, but it does sound like the smartest thing to do and it does have a lot different options for all the characters (which is probably why it was set up this way).

Fendalus
2008-11-18, 10:55 PM
Well, the DM claims that he rolled the wand randomly, so I don't' know if he was planning on stealth for this. I'll run the Ideas so far by the group, but please keep the ideas coming, we need all the help we can get.

JadedDM
2008-11-18, 11:24 PM
I'd like to link to that strip of Chainmail Bikini where the characters just sit and wait until the goblins run out of food, but it's late, so I'll let someone else do it...

Make sure you also link to the strip where it shows that the pigs they were sent to rescue had all been eaten as a result of said plan.

Lemur
2008-11-18, 11:27 PM
Silent Image abuse: make an intimidating monster, such as a dragon, come and threaten the troglodytes or provide some sort of distraction. Alternatively, make an illusion of something the troglodytes would want to spend a lot of effort chasing, to draw away the combatants before entering. Note that you'll have to make your own sound effects and provide voices, which may be too much of a stretch. Although really, whether or not playing with Silent Image will work is often the DM's call to arbitrate anyway.

Perhaps a more plausible use would be to make a Silent Image of the hostage, so the troglodytes who are not actively guarding her think she escaped. This obviously would work best if the hostages are simply tied up somewhere without a guard, but that's unlikely. Still, as long as there's some delay in communication (that is, the trogs that know the hostage hasn't escape don't hear about it for a while because those who think she has are chasing the illusion).

The third way to use Silent Image is if you choose a stealth rescue plan, in which case once you secure the hostage, you leave a Silent Image in her place, which should distract the trogs for a few rounds (after a certain point you'll probably want/need to break concentration of the spell and make a dash for it).

Silent Image also has a good general purpose use for blocking sight. Thick fog is a good illusion choice for this because there's no real way of interacting with it that would lead to an opportunity to disbelieve, plus as the caster your vision shouldn't be impaired since you know it's not real. Of course, there might be some suspicion of a mobile fog cloud that makes footstep noises that drifts its way through a cave, but more practical opportunities for this sort of thing may arise.

ObsidianRose
2008-11-18, 11:34 PM
Here's how I'd do it:

Send in one person with the wand of invisibility. The trogs will watch their prisoners, so don't use it.

Wait until the person is in position (ghost sound?), and begin the fight by sniping a few. Have your sneaky sneaky leave with the invisible prisoners, and have the rest of the part cover their escape with grease. Haul bootay.

Lemur
2008-11-18, 11:49 PM
Another idea: The DM is expecting you to go for the hostages, but he may not necessarily expect you to go for something else first. In particular, if you can get someone to sneak in and steal the leader's glowy sword, you either have one of two things: a distraction (if the thief's getaway isn't completely clean) or a bargaining chip- sword for hostage. The leader probably cares enough about his magic weapon that he'll jump through your hoop (or have his tribe jump through hoops) to get it back.

It will probably be easier to pilfer an item than move a person, but there is a question of who would be better guarded: the hostage or the chief, which is hard to say. Unless you still have that trog captive to interrogate.

Leewei
2008-11-22, 12:48 AM
Have your sneakiest member go inside invisibly and see if he can find out why the trogs took prisoners instead of killing them outright.

If possible, sneak in the wizard and a few others invisibly. Use ghost sound to create a ruckus. Cast obscuring mist over the area so trogs cannot clearly see what's happening. Use the wand on prisoners to make them vanish, then cast silent image to show a pile of glowing ash where they were bound. Cut their ropes and lead them to safety.

Triaxx
2008-11-22, 07:58 AM
Go buy a couple of Saps. Convince the Trogs to send out their leader and second in command to negotiate. Chances are they will go badly. Threaten to destroy the leader. When he attacks, use the Wand of Invisibility on him. The two already invisible characters then beat his brains in with non-lethal full attacks, so that he's unconscious and invisible, or he'll raise the alarm. Then point the wand at the second in command.

The member with the highest bluff should be making these threats by the way. Make sure you steal his glowy sword while he's unconscious though. You might also consider a scroll of web if you can afford it to seal the cave after you leave so they cannot follow straight away.

Knaight
2008-11-22, 10:23 AM
A step by step process.
1. Make a magical death course, with a well concealed pit right by the end. Have a very fancy looking stick at the end, right past the well concealed pit, that glows, using some permanent light spell to make it do so.
2. Tell the trogs that you have a wand that makes people invisible, and that you hid it at the end of the magical death course so that only the worthy can attain it, and that for a fee of a single prisoner, up to 5 troglodytes can attempt the death course, once.
3. Greedy troglodytes attempt the death course, giving up prisoners, and some die to summoned monsters and such inside. If they actually get the glowing stick, have an invisible party member, preferably a rogue, kill them.
4. Eventually all the prisoners are out, and there are some dead troglodytes. If they still have interest in the death course, let them gamble possessions.
5. Once enough of them are dead, finish the rest of them off, and take the leaders glowing sword.