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Handsome Rob
2008-11-18, 12:16 AM
I just read in another thread that in 3.5 by RAW you can actually heal a character by drowning them.

Out of morbid curiosity, how is this done?

Enlong
2008-11-18, 12:19 AM
Drowning puts you at exactly 0 HP. You're not dead 'til -10, and a Frenzied Berzerker can go as low as he wants while in Deathless Rage. Dunk your head in a bucket of water and you go back up to 0.

Unfortunately, there are no rules for stopping drowning once you start, so you then die in 2 rounds no matter what you do.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-11-18, 12:21 AM
Drowning

Any character can hold her breath for a number of rounds equal to twice her Constitution score. After this period of time, the character must make a DC 10 Constitution check every round in order to continue holding her breath. Each round, the DC increases by 1. See also: Swim skill description.

When the character finally fails her Constitution check, she begins to drown. In the first round, she falls unconscious (0 hp). In the following round, she drops to -1 hit points and is dying. In the third round, she drowns.

It is possible to drown in substances other than water, such as sand, quicksand, fine dust, and silos full of grain. That's how you heal them. They hit 0, no matter what their starting HP. Of course, by RAW, coming out of the water doesn't stop drowning, so it still doesn't work.

newbDM
2008-11-18, 12:26 AM
Oh come on.

Is this why a new "simplified" edition was needed? Because people/players/DMs can not use some simple logic and reason?

I can just imagine whole arguments at gaming tables over this, and similar things. :smallconfused:

Enlong
2008-11-18, 12:27 AM
Oh come on.

Is this why a new "simplified" edition was needed? Because people/players/DMs can not use some simple logic and reason?

I can just imagine whole arguments at gaming tables over this, and similar things. :smallconfused:

Nononono, the new edition was needed to stop the reign of Pun-Pun.

newbDM
2008-11-18, 12:35 AM
Nononono, the new edition was needed to stop the reign of Pun-Pun.

But, who does not love Pun-Pun? :smalleek:

JadedDM
2008-11-18, 12:38 AM
Man, that's nothing, NewbDM. I've actually seen people in this very forum argue that since the RAW doesn't specifically state that 'death' means you can't move, speak, or act in anyway means that being dead doesn't prevent you from continuing play. :smallamused:

newbDM
2008-11-18, 12:40 AM
Man, that's nothing, NewbDM. I've actually seen people in this very forum argue that since the RAW doesn't specifically state that 'death' means you can't move, speak, or act in anyway means that being dead doesn't prevent you from continuing play. :smallamused:

I...I don't know what to say.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-11-18, 12:41 AM
Man, that's nothing, NewbDM. I've actually seen people in this very forum argue that since the RAW doesn't specifically state that 'death' means you can't move, speak, or act in anyway means that being dead doesn't prevent you from continuing play. :smallamused:That's used as an argument in the "RaW v RaI debates' by the RaI side to claim RaW doesn't work. I've never seen it as a serious suggestion.

BobVosh
2008-11-18, 01:00 AM
Drowning

Any character can hold her breath for a number of rounds equal to twice her Constitution score. After this period of time, the character must make a DC 10 Constitution check every round in order to continue holding her breath. Each round, the DC increases by 1. See also: Swim skill description.

When the character finally fails her Constitution check, she begins to drown. In the first round, she falls unconscious (0 hp). In the following round, she drops to -1 hit points and is dying. In the third round, she drowns.

It is possible to drown in substances other than water, such as sand, quicksand, fine dust, and silos full of grain.

Doesn't this mean you can only drown in certain substances? It states the third round you drown. So if you are no longer in said substance, wouldn't you be fine?

As for death, I believe the only penalties you get from that is you can't heal. On a work comp, so can't check SRD.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-11-18, 01:04 AM
Doesn't this mean you can only drown in certain substances? It states the third round you drown. So if you are no longer in said substance, wouldn't you be fine?

As for death, I believe the only penalties you get from that is you can't heal. On a work comp, so can't check SRD.Well, you can't move due to having more Nonlethal than HP(even those immune to Nonlethal are vulnerable).

BobVosh
2008-11-18, 01:06 AM
Well, you can't move due to having more Nonlethal than HP(even those immune to Nonlethal are vulnerable).

Lets pretend you have a party. Or are tied to a horse, who is running, for whatever reason.

monty
2008-11-18, 01:07 AM
You still can't take any actions, because you're unconscious.

Emperor Tippy
2008-11-18, 01:08 AM
Well, you can't move due to having more Nonlethal than HP(even those immune to Nonlethal are vulnerable).

That's why you have someone else pull you out once you start drowning. Any magical healing will also end the drowning cycle.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-11-18, 01:10 AM
That's why you have someone else pull you out once you start drowning. Any magical healing will also end the drowning cycle.That was on death. as to drowning:
When the character finally fails her Constitution check, she begins to drown. In the first round, she falls unconscious (0 hp). In the following round, she drops to -1 hit points and is dying. In the third round, she drowns. It makes no mention of healing or getting out of the water as stopping the cycle.

Emperor Tippy
2008-11-18, 01:15 AM
That was on death. as to drowning:It makes no mention of healing or getting out of the water as stopping the cycle.


Healing that raises his hit points to 1 or more makes him fully functional again, just as if he’d never been reduced to 0 or lower.
From here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/injuryandDeath.htm#stableCharactersandRecovery).

Enlong
2008-11-18, 01:19 AM
From here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/injuryandDeath.htm#stableCharactersandRecovery).

So you heal and go can take actions again, but being functional does not mean you stop drowning. Then, in the following round, you drop down to -1, and on the third round, you die.

Frankly, in this case, your best bet is an Iron Heart Surge.

Jack Zander
2008-11-18, 01:20 AM
The "death doesn't prohibit you from performing actions" argument is terribly invalid and flawed. When you are dead, you have more nonlethal damage than you have current HP, which makes you unconscious.

And this is why instant death effects actually have no effect in 3.5.

monty
2008-11-18, 01:21 AM
And this is why instant death effects actually have no effect in 3.5.

Don't death effects automatically drop you to -10?

Jack Zander
2008-11-18, 01:22 AM
Don't death effects automatically drop you to -10?

Good, then their arguments are completely and entirely flawed.

N00bs got pwnt.

Kemper Boyd
2008-11-18, 07:28 AM
This thread gives good reasons to hate many people who play 3.5 :)

hewhosaysfish
2008-11-18, 07:50 AM
The "death doesn't prohibit you from performing actions" argument is terribly invalid and flawed. When you are dead, you have more nonlethal damage than you have current HP, which makes you unconscious.

So? Being unconscious doesn't make you unable to actions any more than being dead does.

It does make you helpless, though. Being helpless doesn't stop you form taking action either.

It does make your Dex count as 0 though.

Having your Dex reduced to 0 makes you paralysed. Being paralysed explicitly allows you to take purely mental actions. Whether or not you can take physical actions is not specified.

Conclusion: Psion = Win

Disclaimer: The above post may cause shock, disbelief, intense feelings of anger, rules arguments, head explosions and/or the throwing of rulesbooks across the room. Please consult a cleric if you suffer any adverse side-effects from reading this post. If this post is ingested, induce vomiting and seek medical attention immediately*.

*Because you've just taken a bite of your monitor, you fool. I mean, seriously?

Sinfire Titan
2008-11-18, 08:58 AM
This thread gives good reasons to hate many people who play 3.5 :)

No, it gives a good reason to hate the editors. The players aren't the problem, the books are. If they've never errata'ed that single section in the entire existance of 3.5, then they need to be shot.

Someone check Stormwrack and the Rules Compendium for me. AFB.

wadledo
2008-11-18, 09:13 AM
This thread gives good reasons to hate many people who play 3.5 :)

This thread is one of the reasons I love 3.5.:smallbiggrin:

kamikasei
2008-11-18, 09:17 AM
Doesn't this mean you can only drown in certain substances? It states the third round you drown. So if you are no longer in said substance, wouldn't you be fine?

You can only drown in certain substances. You can't drown if buried in a giant pile of cotton wool, though you can suffocate.

However, the substances in which you can drown are not limited to those listed in the rule you quote; it says "substances other than water, such as..." - it's not an exhaustive list but a set of examples.

BobVosh
2008-11-18, 09:55 AM
However, the substances in which you can drown are not limited to those listed in the rule you quote; it says "substances other than water, such as..." - it's not an exhaustive list but a set of examples.

Still, removal would prevent drowning. If for some reason you get removed and you continue to drown in air, then everyone would have to start holding breath or drown.

Tsotha-lanti
2008-11-18, 10:19 AM
Man, that's nothing, NewbDM. I've actually seen people in this very forum argue that since the RAW doesn't specifically state that 'death' means you can't move, speak, or act in anyway means that being dead doesn't prevent you from continuing play. :smallamused:

On The Internet, No One Can Hear Your Sarcasm.


No, it gives a good reason to hate the editors. The players aren't the problem, the books are. If they've never errata'ed that single section in the entire existance of 3.5, then they need to be shot.

Someone check Stormwrack and the Rules Compendium for me. AFB.

Yes, let us hate them for assuming that the people playing the game have brains and aren't miserable little goblins who will twist the letter of the rules into a noose to hang passers-by with.

Matthew
2008-11-18, 10:29 AM
Yes, let us hate them for assuming that the people playing the game have brains and aren't miserable little goblins who will twist the letter of the rules into a noose to hang passers-by with.

Hee, hee. These discussions always make me think that people want D20/3e to run like a computer program, and for "errors" in the "script" to be solved by additional or altered code.

Roderick_BR
2008-11-18, 12:07 PM
1. Go bellow 0(zero) HP
2. Have someone toss you in water
3. Go to 0 HP
4. Get out of water with your partial-action (or have someone pull you out)
5. Get some healing, then go to -1 HP anyway
6. Die.
7. Continue playing, since dying doesn't stop you from acting normally.
8. ???
4. Profit!


Hee, hee. These discussions always make me think that people want D20/3e to run like a computer program, and for "errors" in the "script" to be solved by additional or altered code.
And they say that 4E ist the one that looks like a MMORPG... :smallamused:

Starbuck_II
2008-11-18, 01:37 PM
And they say that 4E ist the one that looks like a MMORPG... :smallamused:

He is discussing a Crpg: computer rpg I believe like Buldar's Gate.

They had a lot of patches just to make the bugs viable:
examples, one guy is supposed to be charmed as a way to avoid killing him, but the script forgot he can't talk while charmed.

Before the patch, you can try and hit him after charming it to break the charm. If you pause quck enough the script will kick in and he will talk, but it is so hard to perform mili-seconds.


Another makes monster duplicated (if you leave a room and the enwemy targeted you he will follow, but he is also still in the other room sop there are now 2 of him).

Totally Guy
2008-11-18, 02:38 PM
What if you're drowning in a vat of healing potion?:smallconfused:

And you're out of Healing Surges!:smalltongue:

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2008-11-18, 04:46 PM
Hee, hee. These discussions always make me think that people want D20/3e to run like a computer program, and for "errors" in the "script" to be solved by additional or altered code.

It is worth noting that people usually resort to the these arguments for three main reasons: Comic relief (not working very often btw), derailing the debate or because they are on the losing of another (perhaps more valid) debate.

Texas Jedi
2008-11-18, 05:02 PM
What if you're drowning in a vat of healing potion?:smallconfused:

And you're out of Healing Surges!:smalltongue:

You would still drown. This is a constitutional affect it has nothing to do with HP's. Drowning is caused by your lungs filling with something other than oxygen. You can drown in anything that doesn't have breathable oxygen. Drowning,Asphyxiation and Suffocation are the same thing they just are fancy words for depriving your brain of oxygen.

Like I said before you can drown in anything that that doesn't have breathable oxygen.

Matthew
2008-11-18, 05:15 PM
It is worth noting that people usually resort to the these arguments for three main reasons: Comic relief (not working very often btw), derailing the debate or because they are on the losing of another (perhaps more valid) debate.

No doubt. Though, to be fair, that still leaves room for some of them to *really* think it should. Figuring out who is who is kind of fun. :smallbiggrin:

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2008-11-18, 05:21 PM
No doubt. Though, to be fair, that still leaves room for some of them to *really* think it should. Figuring out who is who is kind of fun. :smallbiggrin:

As long as you are on the sideline with popcorn, yes. :smallamused:

zaei
2008-11-18, 07:39 PM
Oh come on.

Is this why a new "simplified" edition was needed? Because people/players/DMs can not use some simple logic and reason?

I can just imagine whole arguments at gaming tables over this, and similar things. :smallconfused:
This is what happens when you try to have a rule for everything. This was not the cause of 4e.

gibbo88
2008-11-18, 09:39 PM
Its like comparing what is written down as law, and what is inferred. The whole "drowning healing" is taken the rule as written, you're taking it explicitly as what it says, when you'd think you should be taking the intent of the rule. It was intended to point out that you are unconscious, can't move, can't do anything and any source of you being saved is going to result from an outside force, eg the fighter pulling your dumb ass out. Are you telling me even psionics would be able to think then they are unconscious? Can you follow logical thought when you are asleep, or unconcious? I would have thought that as it was written the rules assumed you were on positive hp.