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Desyth
2008-11-18, 11:17 AM
***Disclaimer***

I know there is a semi-Ultima conversion out there already, but wasn't a big fan of how that was done. It was more of a total conversion, with a ton of duplication of effort and limited options. I want to, with this mod, take the Ultima universe as a template and transfer it to the DnD gameset and expand it as much as possible while staying pretty close to the Ultima spirit with a minimum of dramatic convention.

**Intro**
I'm working on, and will post details as soon as I have them, an Ultima semi-conversion for DnD 4e. This will be a hybrid of Ultima, Ultima Online and DnD stuff. For example, I'm planning on keeping the races, classes, skills and feats the same as 4th edition. I'm up in the air with the magic system, definitely am incorporating the lore, moongate system, open ended gameplay, and Karma system. I've decided that at least for the initial campaign, I'll have my players follow the basic storyline of Ultima IV initially. The main quest would be, following with the game, to be to get all of the Virtues as a party, and have that party become the embodiment of the Avatar for future 'save the world' missions, possibly based on the other games. I've chosen this type of homebrew and edition to use it with for the following reasons:


Gypsy Test - C'mon, this is just a pretty sweet way to do things. I wouldn't have the cards limit people by class, just determine which virtue they are most suited for. Since I'm not anywhere near capable or willing to run a campaign with eight people, everyone will be doubling up at least, and the cards add another layer of flavor and a potential bonus if that character obtains that specific virtue.


Races and Classes:
These would come from DnD's 4th Edition. The "magic" of Britannia's Moongates would have transformed certain members of the party to their requested races. This would, of course, not work with the standard Racial lore from the PhB.


Opening Scene - That unique twist of the players actually BEING the characters in the game is something I've always wanted to try with my group. I want to see how this factor changes and hopefully enhances their rp. Also, since the 'Avatars' are people from this time and place (2008, for those of you stuck in the 80's...like me), they could freely reference cultural icons and trends from this time, which could lead to a very different feel to the game, and truely give them an 'other worldly' feel.


Lore - The group I'm with has played Ultima Online and knows the players in Britannia, the map, and some inside jokes from our time on Chesapeake, but have never played the single player games. When they finally figure out where they are, the excitement will be cah-ray-zay.


Spells - Not sure how to do this one. I've toyed with a few ideas.

The first is allowing every character to have a mana pool with the size dependent on their class. The words of power would each have a mana requirement to them. For instance, "In Mani" (basic healing) is composed of the words "In" and "Mani". "In" has a value of 2, since it doesn't hold any real power, and "Mani" has a mana value of 8, as it specifies how the magic would be used. Any character can try this spell by simply uttering the words of power. It might fail (players don't know their mana pool size, and there would be armor failure percentages and a skill roll as well) or might succeed. The mass healing version of the spell "In Vas Mani" would hold the same formula as above, but be significantly higher in mana cost and power due to the "Vas" word. This word, since it specifies multiple targets, would require something in the nature of 15-25 mana, and would by its nature preclude its use from barbarian classes and the like.

The second and MUCH easier way of dealing with the magic system is just having it be the 4th edition magic system. Only classes who can use magic can use the words of power, and I'd just go through the list and sync up words to the powers and have it be a requirement of the spell.


Economy/Magic Items - Gold would be hard to come by, as would be magic items. I'm torn between using the magic item system from UO and DnD, and am leaning more towards DnD and the moment, for simplicities sake: No rebalance is required. The potions would follow Ultima's convention though, and would probably require the integration of the Alchemy skill. Players could freely buy/build houses and boats, and would require a few quests at least to get the plans, materials, labor force, etc, required. They could even carve out fiefdoms in the areas they have the most influence which leads me to my next point....


Karma/Fame - Totally using this system from Ultima Online. Players wouldn't be privy to this information, of course, and would only be able to get a sense of where they stand from NPC's reactions and potentially at the shrines of appropriate virtues.


Dungeons - The main problem I come up with when it comes to making DnD universe's is the tedious nature. I know that there is a certain extent to which this cannot and should not be avoided, but with Ultima's extensive map collection, the world and dungeons are already built and planned out. I have to fill it with NPC's, Monsters, Traps, and loot. It's a huge timesaver. I also plan to use, primarily, the monsters from Ultima. This will severely limit the diversity of combat, but will evoke some "ohhh, I remember him!" moments, and if worst comes to worst, nothing is stopping me from dropping in a displacer beast or something.



Thats all I have at the moment for an initial brain-dump. Let me know what you think, any suggestions you have, anything I've forgotten that would be really awesome to include, etc. I'll be working on this for a bit this weekend and over Thanksgiving, so I'll have some more of this stuff hammered out and better organized.

I think that such a combination between these two systems can really make for a unique gaming experience and lead to some really cool results. When the game starts (mid to late January) I'll post updates, user impressions, and feedback as I get it.

Pandabear
2008-11-18, 11:36 AM
As a Ultima fan, I'd say use the magic system like it was in U VI..
Meditate at the shrine to gain levels, and put a basic cost per level of the spell... since I can imagine rather vast differences between In Flam, An Flam, In Lor, An Nox, Kal Vas Flam, Kal Lor, Kal Vas Ylem Corp etc..

Also, I'd say that just the Avatar (and of course, Lord British) are originally from Earth.. All his companions (Perhaps except Sherry and Beh'Lem) were human.. although I dig the idea of choosing your class by moral choice..

I approve of the Karma idea.. but of course, listed by Virtue.. I'd wonder about which ones to assign them to though, because slaying an unarmed opponent is neither an act of Valor, nor Honor..

Desyth
2008-11-18, 12:02 PM
Thats a good point on the cost per spell level deal. I'm reinventing the wheel. Mass Heal is what, 3-4 levels higher than the standard heal?

I'm a big fan of meditating to gain levels, and not just "pop" I'm level three now! yay!



Also, I'd say that just the Avatar (and of course, Lord British) are originally from Earth.. All his companions (Perhaps except Sherry and Beh'Lem) were human.. although I dig the idea of choosing your class by moral choice..


What I'm trying to go for is a slight departure from UIV. The "Avatar" in this case is a party of people from Earth who make up the qualities needed for Avatarship. Maybe they can get all eight, but I might be too optimistic. My players are strange birds. Personally I agree with you on choosing the class by moral choice, but I don't want to railroad people into something they don't want to be, regardless of their personality. Its hard to find a balance between that and functional party mechanics, imo.


I approve of the Karma idea.. but of course, listed by Virtue.. I'd wonder about which ones to assign them to though, because slaying an unarmed opponent is neither an act of Valor, nor Honor..

I'll totally list it by virtue, and you are right, it will be hard to classify certain actions as a specific virtue, especially on the fly when you can't predict what the players will do. I was thinking about subbing out the alignment system for the Virtue/Anti-Vice thing of British and Blackthorn. To take your example: killing an unarmed opponent would not be an act of Valor or Honor, but rather an act of Cowardice and/or Falsehood.

Check this link out, its got some good stuff.

Wiki Link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Miqademus/ultima-philosophy#Perverting_the_Virtues)

Pandabear
2008-11-18, 12:38 PM
hehehehe, I almost forgot about Mandrake with his virtues..

Well, if players do want to choose what they're going to play, I'd say let them choose a preferred class first, mention their virtue, and then they can choose whether they select the corresponding virtue with the cards or not.. on the other hand, you might want to do the cards thing first, tell them which virtue you would've chosen, and ask if they approve or not (like U:IX)

I'm still not out on the races though, but I guess the players don't have to originate from Earth.. there was this guy named Pildar with a similar story as the Avatar, and I believe he was from somewhere else too.. an Orc player would perhaps originate from a Orc homeworld, and meet the other 'Avatar' players in Britannia..

Back to the virtues, wouldn't it be cool to have the sign of the Codex on your sheet somewhere, with a box with the related rune on the background in the Codex, and then list your current + or - rating from let's say -10 to +10?

Desyth
2008-11-18, 01:23 PM
Modified for quote code messup


hehehehe, I almost forgot about Mandrake with his virtues..

Well, if players do want to choose what they're going to play, I'd say let them choose a preferred class first, mention their virtue, and then they can choose whether they select the corresponding virtue with the cards or not.. on the other hand, you might want to do the cards thing first, tell them which virtue you would've chosen, and ask if they approve or not (like U:IX)



I like that idea, and LOVED U:IX. I think I'm going to keep it along the lines of keeping the virtues and classes separate. For instance, a Valorous wizard or a Humble wizard. The virtue wouldn't be linked to the class explicitly. I will certainly keep the option to the player as to what virtue they want to have be their primary one. I just have to think up what bonus' to give them when they achieve it.



I'm still not out on the races though, but I guess the players don't have to originate from Earth.. there was this guy named Pildar with a similar story as the Avatar, and I believe he was from somewhere else too.. an Orc player would perhaps originate from a Orc homeworld, and meet the other 'Avatar' players in Britannia..


I really like that idea. I'd just run separate "on Earth, find the moongate" events for each group of races. If they are individual, I'll just rotate how they come into my room (in real life) so they don't know whats up.



Back to the virtues, wouldn't it be cool to have the sign of the Codex on your sheet somewhere, with a box with the related rune on the background in the Codex, and then list your current + or - rating from let's say -10 to +10?

Yes, it totally would. for the + or -, are you thinking of having that metric track just one virtue, or all eight?


I'm of the mind that everyone CAN obtain all eight (like the game) but realistically they will each get one or two, depending on how many players there are. Not to mention the fact that it would be a ton easier that way. I'll have to work on my requirements for this type of thing as well, I'll post some stuff up over this week.

Pandabear
2008-11-19, 09:45 AM
I'd say that even if a certain player excels in a different virtue than for its class, you might want to give bonuses for aligning virtue and class, and if another virtue is dominant, you could give the player a bonus, albeit less on the other one. What bonus should depend on the virtue, and give one or more of the primal attributes as it has been with the shrines.. Str, Dex, Int..

I'd say keep a count per virtue, so you could have things like virtue mastery..
But of course, also a total, which would max at 80 for all virtues.. Now of course you can't keep scores for all players on their numbers.. you can however, simply have a checkbox per virtue, which you keep per level of the player. When it's time to level up, the player goes to the shrine or dungeon altar (depending on alignment), you see if the corresponding virtue is checked, and you assign some points to put on the player's sheets..

Desyth
2008-11-20, 11:49 AM
Updates on the following are coming down the pipe, work has been a mother this week.


Bonuses for different virtues
Bonuses for getting your primary virtue
How to represent the different virtues (metrics)
Details about the proposed class-free magic system
Moongate Information (not going to be as crazy as the original game)
Karma/Fame
Potions
Potential first session walkthrough?

Pandabear
2008-11-20, 12:18 PM
Keep me posted I'd say...

I have however, seem to have accidentally clicked on the unsuscribe to this thread link in my mailbox, so I don't know if I'll get notified when you post again..

Concerning potions, didn't their color already define what it does?

Desyth
2008-11-20, 12:22 PM
Sure did, I just have to dig up the ingredients to 'em, and convert their effects to dnd spells or something similar.

Pandabear
2008-11-28, 11:47 AM
So.. how's things coming along now?

Desyth
2009-01-15, 09:14 AM
I'm not dead!


I got a pretty nasty injury on my left hand that made it impossible to type (it's still hard to type now), and am finishing moving to a new house. To be honest that's where my time has been going.

However, I'll be posting my updates this weekend. Here's a synopsis.

* I've decided to start them off at Ultima 1 instead of IV. My players have never played before and I don't want them to go crazy with a bunch of other rules and stuff before they get the basics. As such, they won't be getting the Gypsy test just yet.

* I'll be having the PC's go back in time, but not via spaceships, I'm trying to keep the sci fi out of it. I'll have them collect gems that they need to bring to Britain or something.

* I'll be using 3.5

* I'll still have the players come from Earth

* The players will be using core only

* They will have access to potions from Ultima only, but scrolls of spells are still cool.

* It will be a relatively low wealth campaign until they defeat Mondain, then they get some pretty cool stuff to help them out.

* Non-spellcasters can use magic a la Ultima, but will be limited to probably the first or second circle, have weak DC's, etc. The spells are primarily for flavor, buffing, and setting the players apart from others of their class in the game.

More updates to come!

Pandabear
2009-01-19, 09:02 AM
Quick message from me before the reminder moves to the next page of my mailbox again..

Sorry to hear about your hand.. hope it's healing up ok..

Starting off with U1 is for starting players a good idea.. It will help them familiarize themselves with the storyline.. Depending on how you want to play the game, I'd say it might be a good idea to take care with some important keyfigures... It would be embarassing if the players kill Iolo Fitzowen because he's picking the players pockets for instance, or it might be hard to explain why Shamino, being a heartfelt woodsman, started off as a lord of a castle.

Good luck on the rest, it seems like things that prove themselves good or wrong after some playtesting. Will you be starting off tabletop, or do some PbP around here?