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View Full Version : [D&D 3.5] Optimization Challenge: E6



ClericofPhwarrr
2008-11-18, 09:36 PM
How much can you do with 6 levels and a bucketful of feats?


Character progression from level 1 to level 6 is as per D&D. Upon attaining 6th level, for each 5000 experience a character gains, they earn a new feat.

I modified the Gestalt Challenge rules for a general guideline. Let's not use the optional E6 rules of Capstone and Ability Advancement feats; they seem poorly thought out.


Unless otherwise specified in the specific challenge, the following rules and guidelines are always in effect:
28-point buy; use any WOTC 3.5 product (including Dragon magazine) except where noted (only 3.0 products with an official upgrade to 3.5 are allowed)
Make all builds to ECL 6, with the order of the first 5+ feats taken after ECL 6 is reached (provide as many as you'd like). However, indicate the minimum ECL the build is playable at (the level at which all LA and/or racial HD, if applicable, are accounted for) and label any level that indicates a "power break" where the build has a significant jump in power level. Provide a detailed description of how the build operates.
Keep in mind: Magic items tend to be quite restricted in E6. High level items may be impossible to obtain.
Races with LA/HD are allowed, but see "voting".
Multiclass at will, but see "voting".
Up to two flaws are allowed, but see "voting".
Templates are allowed (barring the Tauric template), but see "voting".
Voting: Upon the close of entries for each challenge, members of the forum may vote in-thread for the build that best represents the goals set out by the challenge. The voting criteria should consist of: Functionality: How well does the build do in its primary role as specified in the challenge? Weaknesses: Does the build have any glaring weaknesses that can be exploited? Playability: How much of the 1-6+ level range can the build be played at and be effective? How much room for progression is there after level 6 is hit? Creativity: Clever use of races, classes, and/or feats that may not be "typical" choices Cheese: Minimizing the number of cheese points Using flaws (1 point each) Single-level dips that would require several pages of justification to RP properly (1 point each) Templates that would require several pages of justification to RP properly (1 point per +1 LA) Over-dependence on items (1 point per indispensable item) Over-dependence on Diplomacy or Use Magic Device skills (1,000,000 points each)

Keld Denar
2008-11-19, 01:37 PM
In E6? Fighter 6 with Dungeoncrasher ACF from Dungeonscape. Nab Goliath as a race, and take the Knockback feat from Races of Stone. Sure, you'll start with a couple points less in point buy, but the damage at that level is staggering. Weapon damage + PA + 8d6 +4.5x str is pretty sick. Tacking on more feats is just icing on the cake for this puppy, since you can pick up feats like Improved Trip so that all of your attacks are touch attacks that throw people around, or Shocktrooper so you can Domino Rush people into walls when they don't want to be, or Standstill with a reach weapon to knock away foes who get too close. The opportunities are as endless as the feats.

Other than that, Factotum? Take Font as all of your bonus feats at every level up! Then just lol and cakewalk.

Fax Celestis
2008-11-19, 01:40 PM
Isn't the whole point of E6 to not optimize?

Darrin
2008-11-19, 01:53 PM
How much can you do with 6 levels and a bucketful of feats?


Factotum 6 + Font of Holy-Punpun-thats-a-lot-of Inspiration.

Actually, Person_Man's Haberdash build starts to click at ECL 6.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88633

I might consider slipping in a level of Warblade in there for Weapon Aptitude so I can spend an hour to switch all my weapon-specific feats to whatever exotic weapon happens to be handy, but I'd lose Opportunistic Piety.

Or:

Psychic Warrior 2Ranger 2/Fighter 2/Barbarian 1/Warblade 1 could get the whole PA/ST/Leap Attack/Pounce thing going, with a couple feats left over for tripping or lockdown chains.

Darrin
2008-11-19, 01:55 PM
Isn't the whole point of E6 to not optimize?

And that has stopped optimizers at what point, exactly?

Fax Celestis
2008-11-19, 01:57 PM
And that has stopped optimizers at what point, exactly?

At level 6, actually.

ClericofPhwarrr
2008-11-19, 01:58 PM
Isn't the whole point of E6 to not optimize?

Hardly. The point is to keep D&D at a level where PCs fit the "heroic" archetype, rather than wuxia or superheroes. A side effect is that most of the classes are well balanced with one another at that point.

ClericofPhwarrr
2008-11-19, 02:07 PM
Factotum 6 + Font of Holy-Punpun-thats-a-lot-of Inspiration.

I might consider slipping in a level of Warblade in there for Weapon Aptitude so I can spend an hour to switch all my weapon-specific feats to whatever exotic weapon happens to be handy, but I'd lose Opportunistic Piety.

Or:

Psychic Warrior 2/Fighter 2/Barbarian 1/Warblade 1 could get the whole PA/ST/Leap Attack/Pounce thing going, with a couple feats left over for tripping or lockdown chains.

Factotum has a maximum number of times it can take Font of Inspiration; and its really worthwhile class features haven't come into play at level 6.

Psychic Warrior 2/Fighter 2/Barbarian 1/Warblade 1: Why would you worry about pounce with only +5 BAB?

The Goliath Dungeoncrasher looks great, though.

Darrin
2008-11-19, 02:42 PM
Psychic Warrior 2/Fighter 2/Barbarian 1/Warblade 1: Why would you worry about pounce with only +5 BAB?


Huh. For some reason I thought Psychic Warrior was full BAB. In that case:

Ranger 2/Fighter 2/Barbarian 1/Warblade 1. +6 BAB, TWF, ImpTWF, and/or Snap Kick.

Emperor Tippy
2008-11-19, 03:47 PM
Factotum has a maximum number of times it can take Font of Inspiration; and its really worthwhile class features haven't come into play at level 6.
That maximum being (assuming grey elf with PB for an 18 in Int) 13 times (11 times if E6 doesn't continue to provide the attribute point every 4 levels). Which is 91 extra Inspiration. Otherwise known as a 85d6 sneak attack that get's Int to attack and damage (and is a touch attack thanks to Wraithstrike).

Stupendous_Man
2008-11-19, 03:50 PM
At level 6, actually.

Pun-Pun pun-pun pun!

ClericofPhwarrr
2008-11-19, 05:09 PM
That maximum being (assuming grey elf with PB for an 18 in Int) 13 times (11 times if E6 doesn't continue to provide the attribute point every 4 levels). Which is 91 extra Inspiration. Otherwise known as a 85d6 sneak attack that get's Int to attack and damage (and is a touch attack thanks to Wraithstrike).

How are you getting 11 times? (You get a single attribute point boost at level 4.) If it's via magic items, you really can't expect to get more than a +2 Int Headband, and even that's reliant on a generous DM.

Emperor Tippy
2008-11-19, 05:16 PM
How are you getting 11 times? (You get a single attribute point boost at level 4.) If it's via magic items, you really can't expect to get more than a +2 Int Headband, and even that's reliant on a generous DM.

E6 has wealth limits? I thought it just limited level.

ClericofPhwarrr
2008-11-19, 05:25 PM
E6 has wealth limits? I thought it just limited level.

Not strictly defined, but they talk about keeping magic items low-powered repeatedly. I can't remember an E6 recruitment thread where the DM wasn't keeping magic items limited to what a 6th level wizard could craft, barring very rare occasions.