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View Full Version : Converting MC's WoD Skills to SW Saga Skill System



Maerok
2008-11-19, 08:43 PM
Alright, so I finally checked out Monte Cook's World of Darkness and was pleasantly surprised. It looks great and shiny and fixed a lot of what I despised about DnD's system (mechanically and in philosophy to a certain degree) while still grabbing my interest.

There were four parts to DnD 3.5 (haven't taken a look at 4.0) that always got in my way: inventory (adding up nickels and dimes for the dozens of things under Adventuring Gear; stabbing implements and anti-stabbing implements in vast numbers, the question of which to pick becoming more difficult as I 'progress' through making a character), magic, min/maxing (more classes, feats, races, and prestige classes than you can shake a ten foot pole at; helped me plan and pick out my classes in a sane manner), and skills (they ought to give you an accounting minor between adjudicating skill points and cp/sp/gp).

At least for me, inventory has been kicked aside, magic has been spiced up, and min/maxing has been combobreakered (though stats on werewolves look as beastly as I could have imagined). I also liked the general theme of (n)WoD, but not the avalanche of splatbooks with iterative avalanches of stats, figures, and rules.

On the other hand, I'm not all that keen about demons. I think there could have been a few more archetypes beside Scourge or Tempter. But there's a framework/pattern there to add on to it. I'll probably end up favor a mage with an affinity for tech (magically empowered dual-wielded weapons).

Issue 1

Now the one thing that I dread about MCWoD is that skills have only multiplied in number like so many damned Zurg rushing across a battlefield. What I'd like to do is hammer down this last squeaky nail of tedium with the refreshingly blissful ease of Star Wars Saga's skill system.

What Saga did, for those who haven't seen it, is the following:
Skill Outcome = 1/2 Level + 5 for being trained in it + 5 for skill focus + ability mod + armor check penalty

Depending on your class (Jedi, soldier, noble, etc) you got a number of skills + Int to pick to be trained in. You could take a feat later on to add a skill to be trained. Skill Focus added a +5 bonus.

I might lower the bonuses from +5 to +3.

I also despise DnD's use of skill synergies (which MCWoD adopts), which would not be needed in this variation.

So...
Awakened: 7 +Int trained skills to start with
Demon (Tempter): 5+Int trained skills to start with
Demon (Scourge), Vampire, Werewolf, Mage: 3+Int trained skills to start with

Issue 2

The skill focus thing about choosing an aspect to decide your class skills and a +2 bonus to one of four abilities seems rather unnecessary. I'm not a particular fan of it and I don't think it will have much of an impact if I were to remove it entirely.

Lert, A.
2008-11-19, 09:37 PM
Your point?

Maerok
2008-11-19, 11:15 PM
Well, does this seem like it would throw things out of proportion? I was expecting a 'Maerok, you're a madman! Spec ops, take him down!' or 'Go for it, sounds reasonable.'

Lert, A.
2008-11-19, 11:29 PM
RE: issue 1 - go for it. Saga skills is overall a better idea. Just decide if you want to go with HD or character level for skill checks. It would give you a +2 to all skills at 1st level to go with HD, but considering that the races with low skills known would be the ones that are way more powerful this is more an issue of flavor. Skill bonuses at +5 is fine.

RE: issue 2 - the main idea of the MC system was to make skill points more/less expensive to buy (the max ranks were always the same, unlike class/cross-class). The +2 was more to be a small bonus but ended up making monstrously powerful characters. Taking it out is no big loss and balances the game.

Maerok
2008-11-19, 11:42 PM
Ah, thanks. Your first post left me staggered and I was expecting the next to knock me down. I'm tired of having to mess around with micromanaging skills and I'll see what I can make of this.

Lert, A.
2008-11-20, 12:09 AM
One thing you might want to look into is scaling duration or effect for cants/disciplines/rites since your characters will be burning through anima/vitae/essence fairly quickly, especially at higher levels.

EDIT: for duration I would recommend 1 round/minute + 1 at 5th level and every 5 levels thereafter.

At later levels you can hurt yourself with only being able to spend 1 point a round on abilities of short duration and get killed before you can act again effectively.

Another alternative is to reduce the bonus points by the feats to 5 and remove the penalties. Otherwise, you hurt yourself too badly to justify spending that extra point/round.

Also, sorry if I sounded too snarky on my first post. I couldn't figure out what you wanted.

Maerok
2008-11-20, 12:31 AM
Anima/Vitae Reserves
Prerequisite: Level 10
Benefit: Your maximum amount of Vitae/Anima increases by your Constitution score. You may take this feat multiple times every three levels afterward 10 (13, 16, 19).

Which penalties are those that you're talking about?

Lert, A.
2008-11-20, 01:18 AM
Penalties for vampires is having to feed off humans instead of animals, later becomes vamps only, etc. Danger for your character - just so you can feed and get vitae - becomes extremely high.

Massive penalties to skills and shortened time in alternate form - to a large degree if the feat it taken multiple times - make things entirely too hard for a character.

Limit the benefits some and get rid of the penalties makes the feats worthwhile instead of a major drawback.

Maerok
2008-11-23, 03:52 PM
Alright, yeah that is an issue. I'll see what I can do to tweak that down a bit. Maybe limit it by level (whenever you get an ability score increase, maybe) and kick down the penalites somewhat.

As for skills, I've created composite skills by grouping two or three skills of the same modifier together:


Athletics (Str)
Climb
Jump
Swim

Social (Cha)
Diplomacy
Intimidate
Gather Info

Perception (Wis)
Listen
Spot
Sense Motive

Scrutiny (Int)
Appraise
Forgery
Search**

Theft (Dex)
Sleight of Hand
Open Lock
Use Rope

Acrobatics (Dex)
Escape Artist
Tumble
Balance

Deception (Cha)
Bluff
Disguise

Stealth (Dex)
Hide
Move Silently

Survival (Wis)
Survival
Navigate Int => Wis (seems to make more sense as Wis)

Vehicle (Dex)
Drive
Pilot

Investigation (Int)
Research
Search**

Mechanics (Int)
Disable Device
Repair

Heal (Wis)

Concentration (Con)

Spellcraft (Int)

Demolitions (Int)

Computer Use (Int)

Ride (Dex)

Handle Animal (Cha)

Craft (Individually) (Int)

Profession (Individually) (Wis)

Perform (Individually) (Cha)

Knowledge (Individually) (Int)

**=split as the situation calls for


Through comparing the percentage of each skill with a given modifier (Str, Cha, etc.), it seems like there are equal percentages of each skill of a certain modifier as before (though strength went down a little).

Another thing I was contemplating was whether to include Craft and Know (electronics) with Computer Use, and so on (Craft/Know(pharmacy) with Heal, Craft/Know(explosives, IIRC) with Demolitions, and so on). I decided not to for now.

The number of trained skills at level 1 is such:
Awakened - 6 + Int
Tempter - 5 + Int
Werewolf - 4 + Int
Vampire - 3 + Int
Scourge - 3 + Int
Mage - 2 + Int

Another thing is that I am doing away with the character focuses. But Awakened got two of them which made them a little less squishy. So I'll propose they still keep a +2 bonus that they can change at each level.