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Frosty
2008-11-20, 12:27 AM
If I have a caster level of 10 and I use Chill Touch, I can touch up to 10 creatures and cause them to be affected by Chill Touch. How long do I have have to do this? Is the charge held in my hands indefinitely until I make 10 touch attacks (or until I cast another spell)?

If I am a duskblade capable of casting 3rd level spells and have a CL of 10 (presuming I have the Rapid Metmagic feat so using metamagic on the fly doesn't increase casting time) and I use the Fell Drain metamagic to modify a Chill Touch spell, does this mean the next 10 hits I land with my weapon (I can channel arcane spells through my weapon) will each bestow a negative level?

tyckspoon
2008-11-20, 12:34 AM
I don't have the references to hand for the Duskblade question, but the text for holding a touch spell is pretty clear:

If you don’t discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the discharge of the spell (hold the charge) indefinitely

So you could potentially cast the spell whenever you want and just keep the charge ready until you finally run into something to fight. The practical problem in doing so is a couple more lines along the way:

If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges.

There's a pretty good chance you'll manage to touch at least a few people or objects somewhere and waste some of the spell's charge (or accidentally zap your party.)

Roland St. Jude
2008-11-20, 12:37 AM
You can hold the charge indefinitely. If you cast another spell or touch anything, you lose the present one you're holding the charge on.

As for the second question, I think Arcane Channeling discharges the spell, all of it, in a single round, but off hand I don't know if that's RAW or something from one of the semi-official interpretations.

Nerd-o-rama
2008-11-20, 12:41 AM
You can hold the charge indefinitely. If you cast another spell or touch anything, you lose the present one you're holding the charge on.

As for the second question, I think Arcane Channeling discharges the spell, all of it, in a single round, but off hand I don't know if that's RAW or something from one of the semi-official interpretations.These are both correct: by the rules, Arcane Channeling discharges the spell in one standard action (or discharges it once against everyone you hit as a full-round action, if you have Full Attack Channeling).

For holding the charge in your hand, it last until you touch ten things, no matter how long that is.

Frosty
2008-11-20, 12:44 AM
Ok, so better to go Enlightened Fist or something, go Unarmed (since you can deliver as part of unarmed strike), and go to town? Can you Flurry touch attacks?

arguskos
2008-11-20, 12:44 AM
These are both correct: by the rules, Arcane Channeling discharges the spell in one standard action (or discharges it once against everyone you hit as a full-round action, if you have Full Attack Channeling).
So... if that's true, does that mean that Arcane Channeling a CL 10 Fell Draining Chill Touch will give the target 10 negative levels?? That seems... really powerful, and not right. :smallconfused:

Unless, it only discharges one use of Chill Touch, which seems more like what the designers intended.

Zeful
2008-11-20, 12:49 AM
Ok, so better to go Enlightened Fist or something, go Unarmed (since you can deliver as part of unarmed strike), and go to town? Can you Flurry touch attacks?

No, but you can add touch attacks to your unarmed strike as a rider. It'd work better like that.

Roland St. Jude
2008-11-20, 12:51 AM
So... if that's true, does that mean that Arcane Channeling a CL 10 Fell Draining Chill Touch will give the target 10 negative levels?? That seems... really powerful, and not right. :smallconfused:

Unless, it only discharges one use of Chill Touch, which seems more like what the designers intended.

The latter.

arguskos
2008-11-20, 12:53 AM
The latter.
Whew!! I was more than a touch concerned there, since the former would make Fell Drain+Chill Touch/Shocking Grasp+Duskblade a mite..... INSANE. At least that will only happen in my darkest dreams now. :smallcool:

Keld Denar
2008-11-20, 12:54 AM
Ok, so better to go Enlightened Fist or something, go Unarmed (since you can deliver as part of unarmed strike), and go to town? Can you Flurry touch attacks?

No, since "touch attack" isn't a special monk weapon. You could flurry unarmed strikes, and deliver your touch spell via UAS as mentioned by an above poster. The difference is that you are targeting full AC rather than touch AC, which tends to be a lot more difficult. Then again, for a martial themed gish type character, this shouldn't be terribly hard either with the proper application of buffs and maybe Wraithstrike.

And Arcane Channeling a Chill Touch would give you 1 application, or 1d6 cold + save vs 1 str damage. It wouldn't apply all 10 charges, not would you even get all 10 charges.

Now, if you did some funky shanananananananananananagans with adding tenticles and pseudopods and symbiots that can make attacks for you, you could potentially cast and make all of the touch attacks in a single round. That would probably get you pegged in the head by the pointy end of the DMG though, so probably not highly advised.

Nerd-o-rama
2008-11-20, 12:54 AM
So... if that's true, does that mean that Arcane Channeling a CL 10 Fell Draining Chill Touch will give the target 10 negative levels?? That seems... really powerful, and not right. :smallconfused:

Unless, it only discharges one use of Chill Touch, which seems more like what the designers intended.Um, yeah. Sorry I was unclear. It discharges Chill Touch once, and that's it, the spell is gone.

Unless, again, it's a full attack (at Duskblade 13+), when it discharges the spell once against each target hit by the full attack.

Keld Denar
2008-11-20, 01:06 AM
Um, yeah. Sorry I was unclear. It discharges Chill Touch once, and that's it, the spell is gone.

Unless, again, it's a full attack (at Duskblade 13+), when it discharges the spell once against each target hit by the full attack.

But the once per target hit by the full attack is not a function of Chill Touch normally allowing multiple touches. Its a function of the Full Attack Channel ability. A Duskblade Full Attack Channeling a Shocking Grasp would hit each target with +5d6 electricity damage even though Shocking Grasp normally only has 1 charge. So Chill Touch via Full Attack Channeling is really the 1st charge spread out among all targets hit, rather than each individual charge hitting each target. This is mostly irrelivant, but could be a factor for an enlarged Duskblade with a reach weapon and WW attack and more than his CL targets to hit in a round. Obscure case, but still a valid point.

Jack_Simth
2008-11-20, 01:12 AM
If I have a caster level of 10 and I use Chill Touch, I can touch up to 10 creatures and cause them to be affected by Chill Touch. How long do I have have to do this? Is the charge held in my hands indefinitely until I make 10 touch attacks (or until I cast another spell)?
Technically? All ten touches must be made in the same round you cast the spell, and any remainder are wasted:


Touch Spells and Holding the Charge: In most cases, if you don’t discharge a touch spell on the round you cast it, you can hold the charge (postpone the discharge of the spell) indefinitely. You can make touch attacks round after round. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates.

Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets as part of the spell. You can’t hold the charge of such a spell; you must touch all targets of the spell in the same round that you finish casting the spell.(Emphasis added)
And:


Chill Touch

Necromancy
Level: Sor/Wiz 1
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Targets: Creature or creatures touched (up to one/level)
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Fortitude partial or Will negates; see text
Spell Resistance: Yes

A touch from your hand, which glows with blue energy, disrupts the life force of living creatures. Each touch channels negative energy that deals 1d6 points of damage. The touched creature also takes 1 point of Strength damage unless it makes a successful Fortitude saving throw. You can use this melee touch attack up to one time per level.

An undead creature you touch takes no damage of either sort, but it must make a successful Will saving throw or flee as if panicked for 1d4 rounds +1 round per caster level.(Emphasis added)

Which puts a funny quirk on the spell: at caster level 1, you can hold it until it's needed; but at 2nd+, unless you deliberately cast it at caster level 1, you can't.

Mind you, I've never seen anyone actually play it that way....

Frosty
2008-11-20, 01:16 AM
No, but you can add touch attacks to your unarmed strike as a rider. It'd work better like that.

Works worse. Now I have to target their actual AC. I'll just make a normal full-attack so I have a better chance of hitting.

Hmm...wonder if I can somehow get 7th level maneuvers and combine this with Avalanche of Blades...

Nerd-o-rama
2008-11-20, 01:18 AM
Jack_Simth: wow, that's...kind of sucky, and makes multiple-charge spells significantly less useful than I thought.


Hmm...wonder if I can somehow get 7th level maneuvers and combine this with Avalanche of Blades...You'll be wanting the Jade Phoenix Mage prestige class, probably along with a level of Warblade. What Discipline is Avalanche of Blades?

Frosty
2008-11-20, 01:20 AM
Jack_Simth: wow, that's...kind of sucky, and makes multiple-charge spells significantly less useful than I thought.

You'll be wanting the Jade Phoenix Mage prestige class, probably along with a level of Warblade. What Discipline is Avalanche of Blades?
It is sucky, which is why I'd be talking to my DM to get it house-ruled away.

Why Warblade? (I don't have ToB at my desk at the moment)

Nerd-o-rama
2008-11-20, 01:23 AM
You need two maneuvers and a stance to enter the PrC, and Warblade gets you them without having to burn three feats. I say Warblade for the Intelligence synergy; nothing's stopping you from taking Swordsage or Crusader, but if your Duskblade is like mine, her Wisdom and Charisma are pretty much balls.

Jack_Simth
2008-11-20, 01:24 AM
Jack_Simth: wow, that's...kind of sucky, and makes multiple-charge spells significantly less useful than I thought.

Hence why I included "technically" and "I've never seen anyone play it that way" - it makes Chill Touch basically useless without Quicken Spell, and even then, it's pretty much only useful for a Gish that can get quite a few attack rolls in.

Frosty
2008-11-20, 01:30 AM
You need two maneuvers and a stance to enter the PrC, and Warblade gets you them without having to burn three feats. I say Warblade for the Intelligence synergy; nothing's stopping you from taking Swordsage or Crusader, but if your Duskblade is like mine, her Wisdom and Charisma are pretty much balls.

Eh. I won't using Duskblade if I go for the unarmed touch attacks with Avalnache of Blades. I'd most likely be going for an Unarmed Swordsage combined with JPM. Probably Sorcerer + USS taking Ascetic Mage. Hmm...a new character is in the making!