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DrizztFan24
2008-11-20, 11:59 AM
So what are some questions that nobody can answer.

Something like:Why are gnomes considered monsters in 4e?

Totally Guy
2008-11-20, 12:03 PM
We've been having the age old "how to say Lich?" debate around my table.

It rhymes with witch!:smalltongue: That's how the BBC newsreaders say it too.

Lord Tataraus
2008-11-20, 12:05 PM
We've been having the age old "how to say Lich?" debate around my table.

It rhymes with witch!:smalltongue: That's how the BBC newsreaders say it too.

...how else would you say it? I've never heard a different pronunciation.

Project_Mayhem
2008-11-20, 12:07 PM
I've always said 'Litch'. However, most people at my uni (who care) say 'Leesh'.

puppyavenger
2008-11-20, 12:09 PM
I know several people who pronounce it "lynch"

kamikasei
2008-11-20, 12:10 PM
...how else would you say it? I've never heard a different pronunciation.

"Lickh" with a "ch" pronounced like "loch". Or Project_Mayhem's version, which is a new one on me.

Similarly, there is apparently some disagreement on the pronunciation of "drow".

JMobius
2008-11-20, 12:12 PM
By far the most experienced player in my group pronounces it "Lick".

Whenever he does this, I open up dictionary.com, go to the Lich entry, and press the "pronounce" button several times.

Project_Mayhem
2008-11-20, 12:12 PM
Similarly, there is apparently some disagreement on the pronunciation of "drow".

Presumably, rhyming with cow or hoe?

Everyone I know rhymes it with cow.

Totally Guy
2008-11-20, 12:14 PM
Hmm, I'm being told it's "Like". Like lichen. But I think the better comparison is the city of Lichfield.

Project_Mayhem
2008-11-20, 12:16 PM
Wiki supports litch

BadJuJu
2008-11-20, 12:38 PM
Tiefling. I have a friend that says its "tee-fling" I say Tie-fling.

Ionizer
2008-11-20, 12:38 PM
It's probably more then likely that drow rhymes with "Ho," given their society is based on lesbian rituals. Wait, is that right? It might have been a fanfic I read somewhere...

Starbuck_II
2008-11-20, 12:42 PM
So what are some questions that nobody can answer.

Something like:Why are gnomes considered monsters in 4e?

They aren't.
They just aren't in the PHB: they just are shown first in the MM. The PHB represents the majority of the intelligent races.

Pronounceable
2008-11-20, 12:42 PM
I think Carceri gets some of this as well.

Zeful
2008-11-20, 12:54 PM
So what are some questions that nobody can answer.

Something like:Why are gnomes considered monsters in 4e?

Because the Dev team for 4e couldn't pick one of the several gnome archetypes to choose, so the bumped it to the monster manual until they could figure something out. Apparently they went with a Whisper-esk Gnome race.

That's a really bad example because, you know, the Devs admitted to such themselves.

Douglas
2008-11-20, 12:55 PM
I remember reading about some german (I think) DM who pronounced "Lich" like "leak". His players were quite confused when the leak in the fountain cast Fireball at them after one of them tried to plug it up with a finger.

Captain Six
2008-11-20, 12:59 PM
So what are some questions that nobody can answer.

Something like:Why are gnomes considered monsters in 4e?

Technically they were in the monster manual in 3.5 as well.


Tiefling. I have a friend that says its "tee-fling" I say Tie-fling.

Neverwinter Nights 2 says Teef-ling. That's how I've said it since.

warmachine
2008-11-20, 01:13 PM
If high level adventurers can be attacked by wandering, powerful but CR appropriate monsters, why aren't low level adventurers attacked and quickly killed by similar, powerful, wandering monsters?

Similarly, if the quest of high level adventurers can be hindered by random, powerful monsters that just happen to be in the way, why don't low level adventurers routinely abandon quests because it's blocked by random, powerful monsters that just happen to be in the way and they can't defeat?

hamishspence
2008-11-20, 01:15 PM
warhammer spells it liche: maybe that gives idea of how it should be pronounced: "leech"

I go with lich to rhyme with itch.

Artanis
2008-11-20, 01:36 PM
This entire thread is an excellent illustration of just how ****ed up the English language is. Seriously, any language where g-h-o-t-i is pronounced the same as "fish"...

Quincunx
2008-11-20, 01:43 PM
By far the most experienced player in my group pronounces it "Lick".

Whenever he does this, I open up dictionary.com, go to the Lich entry, and press the "pronounce" button several times.

Where's a "dizzy with love" emoticon when you really need one?

afroakuma
2008-11-20, 01:58 PM
I think Carceri gets some of this as well.

Being an Italian word, it should be pronounced "kar-CHE-ree".

That said, I pronounce it "kar-SAIR-ee" because I like the sound of it. :smallbiggrin:

Hzurr
2008-11-20, 02:06 PM
It's probably more then likely that drow rhymes with "Ho," given their society is based on lesbian rituals. Wait, is that right? It might have been a fanfic I read somewhere...

Or possibly any fantasy book you've ever read containing female drow. They're a bit naughty.

But I've always pronounced it like it rhymes with "cow" (And lich with "witch")

My biggest question is that in all the fortresses, cavern strongholds, secret hideouts, etc., why are there never restrooms in them? I think WotC has a conspiracy against toilets.

Tengu_temp
2008-11-20, 02:06 PM
Leech. Thief-ling. 4e gnomes are a different race than 3.5 gnomes, and you can still play as them - there are rules in the MM.

RTGoodman
2008-11-20, 02:09 PM
Being an Italian word, it should be pronounced "kar-CHE-ree".

That said, I pronounce it "kar-SAIR-ee" because I like the sound of it. :smallbiggrin:

Hmm... I think it's actually from The LatinTM, so it'd be something like KAR-ker-ai, with hard C sounds and accent on the first syllable. Could be wrong, though - it's been a year or so since I've had to worry about figuring out how to pronounce Latin words.

For others, Drow rhymes with "cow"* (since rhyming with "grow" seems silly to me), Tiefling is pronounced TEE-fling (since that's how the "tie" would be pronounced in German), and Lich is like "witch." Don't know why on that last one, though - I never even thought there could be other pronunciations for it until another thread like this somewhere else. It could be pronounced like in French, though, but I prefer my bastardized American way. :smallwink:



*Funny note - in some D&D book recently (Rules Compendium, maybe?), there was a bit on which pronunciation was correct for "Drow," and the author just said that, for the record, it rhymes with "bow." Think about that for a minute... :smallbiggrin:

Matthew
2008-11-20, 02:11 PM
*Funny note - in some D&D book recently (Rules Compendium, maybe?), there was a bit on which pronunciation was correct for "Drow," and the author just said that, for the record, it rhymes with "bow." Think about that for a minute... :smallbiggrin:

Ha, ha. Took me a few moments to get that. :smallbiggrin:

kamikasei
2008-11-20, 02:14 PM
Leech. Thief-ling.

Wikipedia, dictionary.com, Blizzard, and I all disagree with you on lich. Tiefling is easier to agree on though, as it derives from the German.

hamishspence
2008-11-20, 02:18 PM
i figure the Leech pronunciation should only really work if there is an e in the name- liche.

otherwise, other ways of pronouncing it are more likely.

I remember when at school the Magic E cartoon, explaining how an E at end of word makes vowel in word be pronounced long.

On reflection, not the best name for a teaching cartoon :smallbiggrin:

Totally Guy
2008-11-20, 02:25 PM
in some D&D book recently (Rules Compendium, maybe?), there was a bit on which pronunciation was correct for "Drow," and the author just said that, for the record, it rhymes with "bow." Think about that for a minute... :smallbiggrin:

That could be the answer. Poetry! The bard could sing about all the different monsters and concepts that we end up arguing.

There once was goblin brought up from the ditch
he wore a red cloak and worked for Xykon the lich.

There one was a time where I met a drow
She was carrying a whip, sexy and how!

The once was a young and nimble tiefling
She had a young cow and she called it a beef-ling

Umm... struggling...

To continue the rhymes I'll have to utilise the power of Magic E (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=8s0KtvgcM4o)!

afroakuma
2008-11-20, 02:26 PM
Hmm... I think it's actually from The LatinTM, so it'd be something like KAR-ker-ai, with hard C sounds and accent on the first syllable. Could be wrong, though - it's been a year or so since I've had to worry about figuring out how to pronounce Latin words.

I don't know about Latin - from what I understood, Carceri obtained its name from the Italian word for "prison."

newbDM
2008-11-20, 02:28 PM
What happens if you get captured away from your party by some drow priestesses, but when they come to get you out you realize that you actually kinda like it there...?

Reptilius
2008-11-20, 02:29 PM
Well, Carceri is a prison plane, and when you are in prison, you are inCARCERated, so I pronounce it CAR-serai.

Zeta Kai
2008-11-20, 02:30 PM
That said, I pronounce it "kar-SAIR-ee" because I like the sound of it. :smallbiggrin:

I agree with you on this, on the grounds that it is related to the word "incarcerate", meaning of course to imprison, which is obviously related.

EDIT: Totally ninja'd by Reptilius. Well played, good sir.

newbDM
2008-11-20, 02:32 PM
Ha, ha. Took me a few moments to get that. :smallbiggrin:

I don't get it.

Thane of Fife
2008-11-20, 02:39 PM
I don't get it.

There are two ways to pronounce "bow" - it can be pronounced as the weapon, or as the action - "He bowed to the king" vs. "He fired his bow."


As for lich, I use it as though it rhymes with itch. Hordes of the Underdark pronounced Drow to rhyme with cow.

Although, I used to pronounce Ethereal as ether-eel, so I may not be the best source.


It's Sahuagin that gets me. How do you pronounce that?

Edge
2008-11-20, 02:45 PM
It's Sahuagin that gets me. How do you pronounce that?

I remember some article on the D&D website that said it's akin to:

"Aww... you agin."

I've gone with that since I read it.

hamishspence
2008-11-20, 02:45 PM
According to Dragon Compendim, both "litch" and "lik" are valid.

Sahaugin is listed as "Sa-HWA-gin"

EDIT:
by the way phonemes are written, my guess is it corresponds to answer to question- Whats that dog's tail doing?

'S a-waggin'!

RTGoodman
2008-11-20, 02:50 PM
I don't know about Latin - from what I understood, Carceri obtained its name from the Italian word for "prison."

Yeah, but all of Italian CAME from Latin. The Latin is carcer, carceris (masc.), which is "a prison," and especially "the Roman state-prison." The word carceri could be in the Dative case, meaning "to prison" or "for prison." Either way, I think both the Latin-based and Italian-based are valid (and I just like the Latin-ish hard C sounds because that makes it sound more evil). :smalltongue:


For "Sahuagin," I just say it right out - like "sa-Hoo-a-jin." Ethereal is "ee-THEER-ee-al."

KazilDarkeye
2008-11-20, 02:54 PM
My pronunciations:

Lich : l-EYE-ch (I seem to be the only person who does this that I know of, but I think it makes 'em sound more malevolent)

Drow : dr-OU (similar to the first syllable of 'ouch')

Carceri : sar-SER-ee (I don't care what language it's in, that's just how I've always pronounced it)

Tiefling : I used to say t-EYE-fling (compare lich, for the same reasons), but ever since I got to the part in Neverwinter Nights I have to fight the urge to say t-EE-fling.

Sahuagin : SAH-hew-agin (with a hard 'g' as in 'grimlock')

Ethereal : Varies between ee-THEE-ree-AL and eth-REE-al, depending on whether I spell it correctly or not.


My 2 cp on that story, now can we please go back to asking questions no-one can answer?
"Why did this tangent emerge?" for example

Artanis
2008-11-20, 02:56 PM
Fun fact about latin: Julius Ceasar's name was pronounced nothing like how we pronounce it. It was pronounced YOO-lee-oos ky-SAR ("ky" rhyming with "my").

Thane of Fife
2008-11-20, 02:56 PM
Ethereal is "Ee-theer-ee-al."

Right, I've gotten that one.

But in three posts, I've just gotten 4 ways to pronounce Sahuagin:

sa-HOO-a-jin
sa-HOO-a-gin
sa-HWA-gin (sort of like wagon)
sa-HWAH-gin (sort of like wog)

Ionizer
2008-11-20, 02:57 PM
Well, Carceri is a prison plane, and when you are in prison, you are inCARCERated, so I pronounce it CAR-serai.

That is exactly what I was going to say. Damn http://forum.travian.us/images/smilies/ninja.gif's.

Anyway, some of my pronunciations (not true to official Pronunciation keys):

Ethereal: E-THE-RE-al (all the "e"s are long)
Sahuagin: sa-hwa-gin (alternatively, I might start saying it like "Say Wha? Gin. Yay hillbillies!)
Archeron: ar-ker-ron (hard "ch")
Ysgard: yis-gard (what else could it be?)
Gehenna: GE-hen-na or GE-yen-na(this one has alot of variations, I bet)

I have a question about Planetars, though. Should it be [PLAN-tar] (with a long A, two syllables) or [plan-e-tar] (3 syllables, short vowels)?

Artanis
2008-11-20, 03:00 PM
I always figured it was PLAN-eh-tar, what with the word basically being "planet" with "ar" on the end.

But then, with English, you never can tell. Like the ghoti thing I mentioned.

hamishspence
2008-11-20, 03:00 PM
i'm not sure why, before before reding hat dragon compendium, I tended to say "Sa-Haw-Gin" (with hard G, as in gun)

Jayabalard
2008-11-20, 03:00 PM
My biggest question is that in all the fortresses, cavern strongholds, secret hideouts, etc., why are there never restrooms in them? I think WotC has a conspiracy against toilets.Chamber Pots.

Hzurr
2008-11-20, 03:03 PM
Heh, if we really want to confuse people, we can start a thread on the correct pronunciation of character names from the "Wheel of Time" books. Still haven't met two people who agree.

Also, we have a guy in our group who always pronounces "Tome" as "Tow-meh (long "o" sound at the beginning). We've corrected him, but he decided that he likes his way better, and is sticking with it.

Headless_Ninja
2008-11-20, 03:12 PM
I agree with 'Lich' taking its pronunciation from 'Lichfield' - they share the same root (and the word has more or less the same meaning) in either case. Then again, UK place names love their weird pronunciations. As an Oxforder that travels to London fairly frequently, I often flinch at tourists' pronunciations of 'Magdalen' or 'Marylebone'.

Mephit
2008-11-20, 03:15 PM
Fun fact about latin: Julius Ceasar's name was pronounced nothing like how we pronounce it. It was pronounced YOO-lee-oos ky-SAR ("ky" rhyming with "my").

Speak for yourself, you anglophonic latinist. :smallwink:
We dutch folks pronounce it perfectly. (Well, anyone who's ever learned Latin, I suppose)

But aren't we just ai leettel bit offtopik?

RTGoodman
2008-11-20, 03:16 PM
Then again, UK place names love their weird pronunciations. As an Oxforder that travels to London fairly frequently, I often flinch at tourists' pronunciations of 'Magdalen' or 'Marylebone'.

No kidding - knowing about you Brits and your crazy pronunciations that make no sense to us Americans, I'd guess you probably pronounce those as "Mawdlin" and "Marbon" or something like that. :smallsigh: :smallwink:

Headless_Ninja
2008-11-20, 03:18 PM
Yes to the first! The second is more like 'Marr-lee-bone' or 'Marr-lee-burn'.

mangosta71
2008-11-20, 03:22 PM
Heh, if we really want to confuse people, we can start a thread on the correct pronunciation of character names from the "Wheel of Time" books. Still haven't met two people who agree.

But...at the end of each book, there's a glossary thingy that contains the correct pronunciations...

Matthew
2008-11-20, 03:26 PM
Fun fact about latin: Julius Ceasar's name was pronounced nothing like how we pronounce it. It was pronounced YOO-lee-oos ky-SAR ("ky" rhyming with "my").

...which is from where the German "Kaiser" is derived, caesar became a hereditary title equivalent to emperor].

Blackfang108
2008-11-20, 03:29 PM
But...at the end of each book, there's a glossary thingy that contains the correct pronunciations...

True, but many don't read it.

I didn't until my third run through.

And I still pronounced the "th" in Thom until I met a guy named Thom.

So...

Fostire
2008-11-20, 03:39 PM
...which is from where the German "Kaiser" is derived, caesar became a hereditary title equivalent to emperor].

...and the russian word zar

Whiplord
2008-11-20, 03:48 PM
Heh, if we really want to confuse people, we can start a thread on the correct pronunciation of character names from the "Wheel of Time" books. Still haven't met two people who agree.


Yeah, there's the glossary, and Jordan did a video giving several major pronunciations.

Aes Sedai - Eye Said-Eye
Suian - Swan

etc

Quietus
2008-11-20, 04:08 PM
Yeah, there's the glossary, and Jordan did a video giving several major pronunciations.

Aes Sedai - Eye Said-Eye
Suian - Swan

etc

Any time someone has to go to that much effort to ensure that names are pronounced correctly, they should just go back and make names that aren't spelled in silly ways.

Kalirren
2008-11-20, 04:19 PM
Well, "leech" can't be correct because "lich" was also spelled lych, or lyche, before spelling became canonized. In the olden days the "y" was closer to a modern German u-umlaut sound.

So "lich" as "loch" with a short "i" is probably most acceptable for modern usage.

I'm pretty sure I'm the only person I know who says "aither", with long "a" and short "e", for both aether and aethereal. Then again, I also spell it that way, so that's not much of a surprise.

I never knew there was a controversy over "drow," though. Given that its origin is Scottish, and the word is ultimately related to "troll", the pronunciation that rhymes with "land, ho!" or the "Lo" in Loch "Lomond" seems the obvious one.

SurlySeraph
2008-11-21, 01:34 AM
Also: Litch, drow rhymes with cow, tee-eff-ling, sa-hwa-gween, eth-EER-ee-al,


What happens if you get captured away from your party by some drow priestesses, but when they come to get you out you realize that you actually kinda like it there...?

Your companions persuade you to leave up explaining what happens when the priestesses get bored. It involves spiders, of course. And whips. And fire. And some of your favorite orifices stop being usable.


Any time someone has to go to that much effort to ensure that names are pronounced correctly, they should just go back and make names that aren't spelled in silly ways.

But sillily spelled names are cool-looking!

elliott20
2008-11-21, 01:38 AM
"steve", I pronounce all those words with "steve".

Doresain
2008-11-21, 01:42 AM
athach
kapoacinth
kuo-toa
slaad
thoqqua
vargouille

how do you say these things!?

RTGoodman
2008-11-21, 01:49 AM
athach
kapoacinth
kuo-toa
slaad
thoqqua
vargouille

how do you say these things!?

Well, I could be wrong, but I say 'em as:

-Athach - AA-thatch (the first syllable is like the "a" in "lag")
-Kapoacinth - kap-oh-a-SINTH
-Kuo-Toa - KOO-oh TOE-uh
-Slaad - SLAHD (rhymes with "clod" or "wad" or something)
-Thoqqua - THOK-kwa
-Varguille - VAR-gwill (though I'm sure it's French and probably closer to "VAR-gwee" or something)

Zeful
2008-11-21, 01:51 AM
how do you say these things!?
How I pronounce them:
ath-ach Hath Attach specifically. The rest should be simpler to understand.
ko-to-a
slaa-d
thok-wa
var-goille

Doresain
2008-11-21, 01:59 AM
those seem...easy enough...almost too easy...

Artanis
2008-11-21, 03:54 AM
athach
kapoacinth
kuo-toa
slaad
thoqqua
vargouille

how do you say these things!?
"Those one guys" :smallbiggrin:

Ethdred
2008-11-21, 06:07 AM
This thread seems to have gone from 'questions no-one knows the answers to', to 'questions everyone thinks they know the answer to' :)

At least the designers of Call of Cthulu included a standard pronunciation guide in the game.

Tengu_temp
2008-11-21, 06:09 AM
What happens when you put a rabid DND fan and a rabid WoD fan into the same closed room? The room's walls are made from butter.

newbDM
2008-11-21, 06:16 AM
What happens when you put a rabid DND fan and a rabid WoD fan into the same closed room? The room's walls are made from butter.

The stereotypical male geek falls in love with the stereotypical female goth chick......

Thurbane
2008-11-21, 06:33 AM
By far the most experienced player in my group pronounces it "Lick".

Whenever he does this, I open up dictionary.com, go to the Lich entry, and press the "pronounce" button several times.
"Lick" is the more Germanic pronunciation, while "Litch" is the more Ye Olde English pronunciation.

If you use the Germanic version, and play d20 modern (or other modern RPG), you may get some funny looks when you tell the other players that your rifle is a Steyr Mannlicher. :smallbiggrin:

Winterwind
2008-11-21, 06:33 AM
I think I might be able to shed some light on the pronunciation of Tiefling and Lich, considering the latter is derived from a German word, the former essentially is a German word (not a meaningful one one might find in a dictionnary, but a perfectly normal word with a perfectly normal suffix).

Tief means 'deep' in German - as in 'the abyss is deep'. It's basically pronounced 'teef'.
-ling is a suffix which appears in English as well, in such words as 'underling'.
So, the pronunciation should be 'teef-ling'.

Lich is derived from 'lyche', closely related to the contemporary German word 'Leiche', meaning 'corpse'. I cannot come up with any example of an English word with a sound exactly like the 'ch' in this word, but 'leesh' would be a somewhat reasonable approximation of how 'Lich' would be (and is) pronounced in German.

How these German speakers mentioned before came up with 'Lick', I have no clue, but that's not standard pronunciation at all.

Celeres
2008-11-21, 06:44 AM
two weapons from complete warrior: Maul and Warmace.

Maul: 20 pounds.

Warmace: 10 pounds. however, "anyone wielding a warmace takes a -1 penalty to AC cause the weapons weight makes it difficult to recover quickly from swinging it."

the question: The Maul is twice as heavy, and more topheavy, why doesn't it incur a -2 Penalty to AC?

Tengu_temp
2008-11-21, 06:56 AM
The maul is so large it doubles as a shield, which cancels the AC penalty.

hamishspence
2008-11-21, 08:38 AM
I was thinking it was more- the maul is to the warhammer as the bastard sword is to the longsword.

It was two handed martial in 3.0 (FRCS)- only became one-handed exotic in 3.5.

Wulfgar's weapon Aegis Fang became a maul in 3.0 Silver Marches.

Matthew
2008-11-21, 08:50 AM
...and the russian word zar

Indeed. I had forgotten that. All very interesting.

Quietus
2008-11-21, 08:59 AM
Well, I could be wrong, but I say 'em as:

-Athach - AA-thatch (the first syllable is like the "a" in "lag")
-Kapoacinth - kap-oh-a-SINTH
-Kuo-Toa - KOO-oh TOE-uh
-Slaad - SLAHD (rhymes with "clod" or "wad" or something)
-Thoqqua - THOK-kwa
-Varguille - VAR-gwill (though I'm sure it's French and probably closer to "VAR-gwee" or something)

Only ones I pronounce differently here are ...

-Slaad - SLAAD (Hah. Rhymes with "Glad" or "Bad". This one SHOULD be morphous though. Seems in their nature. No one Slaad pronounces it the same!)
Varguille - var-GWAY (Probably wrong, but it's the french influence of 8 years of useless classes.)

Heliomance
2008-11-21, 09:25 AM
I always figured it was PLAN-eh-tar, what with the word basically being "planet" with "ar" on the end.

But then, with English, you never can tell. Like the ghoti thing I mentioned.

Ghoti is not pronounced fish. That's highly forced wordplay. I challenge you to find any of the following:

Any English word beginning with a gh pronounced f
Any two English words with an o pronounced as a short i
Any English word with a ti pronounced sh, where the ti is not immediately followed by on, ous, an, or similar.

As to the original topic: How many licks does it take to get to the chewy centre of a tootsie roll pop?

hewhosaysfish
2008-11-21, 09:29 AM
lich litch

drow to rhyme with "cow" (Although I believe there is an argument to be made that, given the word's roots, it should rhyme with "throw". I don't pronounce it that way because it's sounds kinda awkward.)

tiefling teef-ling

sahuagin sah-hoo-ah-gin (that last syllable as "begin" rather than "gin and tonic")

athach ath-atch

kapoacinth war-ter garr-goyle (kah-poe-ah-sinth, if pressed)

kuo-toa koo-ah toe-ah (though it should be "koo-oh"; I thought that was an "a")

slaad to rhyme with "bad" only with a longer "a" (if "longer" is the correct term; I'm no linguist) sort of like, more an "aah" than an "ah" but not quite enough to be an "ar" (because "slard" sounds silly)

thoqqua thok-ah, although now that the "u" been pointed out maybe "thokk-kwa" would be better

vargouille var-goo-eel

Sereg
2008-11-21, 10:02 AM
There's a guide to how to pronounce English words that's pretty accurate:
http://www.zompist.com/spell.html

And it says that there's no way that ghoti would be pronounced fish. (Of course there are exceptions to these rules)

afroakuma
2008-11-21, 10:14 AM
It's an old gag, Sereq.

"gh" as in "laugh"

"ti" as in "sensation"

I don't recall what the o was from...

Gao
2008-11-21, 10:16 AM
Why don't more people play Maid RPG?

Heliomance
2008-11-21, 10:23 AM
It's an old gag, Sereq.

"gh" as in "laugh"

"ti" as in "sensation"

I don't recall what the o was from...

Women. English is a silly language, but not quite that silly.

Eldan
2008-11-21, 10:40 AM
This thread is a perfect reason why I don't envy you crazy anglosaxons for your english. If I read a word, I know how to pronounce it in german. For convenience, they are also mostly pronounced the same way in greek and latin. Hooray.

Well, once I had to hit an english exchange student with a DMG because he instisted Acheron should be pronounced Esheron. Greek words aren't pronounced like that.

Apart from that: Lich is the swiss german word for corpse. The german word "Leiche", meaning the same thing is also derrived from it. Therefore, I pronounce it as Lee-ch.

Sereg
2008-11-21, 10:45 AM
It's an old gag, Sereq.

"gh" as in "laugh"

"ti" as in "sensation"

I don't recall what the o was from...

Oh, I know. The point is that it's not as close to the truth as many people (including my past self) believe.

Incidently, I checked our list of unpronouncable words and unfortunately, they don't have guidelines that will help us with kuo-toa, slaad, thoqqua or vargouille (unless I've missed a couple of rules, there are a lot of them).

It is also incorrect for tiefling according to wikipedia (probably due to the German origin).

Craby
2008-11-21, 10:45 AM
Also, we have a guy in our group who always pronounces "Tome" as "Tow-meh (long "o" sound at the beginning). We've corrected him, but he decided that he likes his way better, and is sticking with it.

dictionary.com says "Tome" (tōm) or (tohm)
i agree it is said Toe-mm.

how do you pronounce it?

Fostire
2008-11-21, 10:49 AM
There's a guide to how to pronounce English words that's pretty accurate:
http://www.zompist.com/spell.html

And it says that there's no way that ghoti would be pronounced fish. (Of course there are exceptions to these rules)

Sometimes I think the english language has more exceptions than rules :smallsigh:

warmachine
2008-11-21, 11:03 AM
Why is that Bards, who are shallow, superficial dabblers in arcane magic, can cast Cure Light Wounds but Wizards, who study arcane magic intensly and can cast a far broader range of spells, cannot?

Thane of Fife
2008-11-21, 11:28 AM
Sometimes I think the english language has more exceptions than rules

English is kind of like D&D, really. It has some funny rules, and, in the end, it's all about beating up other languages and taking their stuff.

Hzurr
2008-11-21, 12:50 PM
dictionary.com says "Tome" (tōm) or (tohm)
i agree it is said Toe-mm.

how do you pronounce it?

Ah, I should have explained better. I pronounce it like you have it in the dictionary. The guy in my group makes it a two-syllable word, with the emphasis on the second syllable. (so it's "to-MAY"). He's an odd duck, but a nice guy


As to the original topic: How many licks does it take to get to the chewy centre of a tootsie roll pop?

*sigh* I actually know the answer to this (I had some very long, boring bus rides in middle school).

If you start on one side, and just focus on getting to the center at one point, you can get there in 350-450 licks (More specifically, I think I had 375-380ish). If you try to get to the center for all sides completely, I can't give you the exact number, but I stopped at just over 4100.

It's sad that I still remember these things a decade later.

And now you know (GI JOE!)

Heh, given the current pronunciation disagreements, would it be better to ask how many lichs it takes to get to the center of a tootsie roll pop?

JMobius
2008-11-21, 01:00 PM
Heh, given the current pronunciation disagreements, would it be better to ask how many lichs it takes to get to the center of a tootsie roll pop?

Probably quite a few, lacking a tongue and all.

newbDM
2008-11-21, 01:03 PM
Probably quite a few, lacking a tongue and all.

Fireball anyone?

Thane of Fife
2008-11-21, 01:14 PM
If you start on one side, and just focus on getting to the center at one point, you can get there in 350-450 licks (More specifically, I think I had 375-380ish). If you try to get to the center for all sides completely, I can't give you the exact number, but I stopped at just over 4100.

My personal experience would more or less agree with this. Incidentally, I also found that if you lick straight from one side to the other, it takes somewhere around 1500 licks (if I recall correctly) before it falls off the stick.

Artanis
2008-11-21, 01:16 PM
Women. English is a silly language, but not quite that silly.
Yeah. It's not an example of a real word, it's a way to show just how ****ed up some of the things in the language are.

Callos_DeTerran
2008-11-21, 01:27 PM
How are there wizened old timers chock full of sage wisdom if everyone, and their's mother's parents, are being murdered to send them unto the road of adventure?

Hzurr
2008-11-21, 02:25 PM
My personal experience would more or less agree with this. Incidentally, I also found that if you lick straight from one side to the other, it takes somewhere around 1500 licks (if I recall correctly) before it falls off the stick.

Ah yes, that stupid wimpy stick.. Why must shoddily made tootsie-roll sticks get in the way of science?? WHY????

I'm actually suprised that there exists more than one person in the world who got bored enough to try this?

Oslecamo
2008-11-21, 02:48 PM
If high level adventurers can be attacked by wandering, powerful but CR appropriate monsters, why aren't low level adventurers attacked and quickly killed by similar, powerful, wandering monsters?

Similarly, if the quest of high level adventurers can be hindered by random, powerful monsters that just happen to be in the way, why don't low level adventurers routinely abandon quests because it's blocked by random, powerful monsters that just happen to be in the way and they can't defeat?

They do. Both. In the campaigns I play in RL at least.

We had a sudden mission go awfully wrong when we enter the main room of the enemy camp and meet a Balor and his captains planing strategy. When we were lv10. Luckily not all the party had decided to enter the room, so those escaped. Mind you, we had no reason to enter that particular room, our objective was elsewhere.

We also use to find dragons(yes, several at a time) now and then, altough in those situations some ass kissing and briberies goes a long way to get out alive.

However, it's not a very common thing, because:
1-Low level adventurers will run away from very strong monsters.
2-Low level adventures won't acept quests to face very powerfull monsters.
3-Most high level monsters live in particular dangerous areas low level PCs avoid like hell. Like hell itself.
4-Low level adventures just aren't as tasty as high level adventurers so high level monsters don't bother to go after them. Also low level adventurers have fewer shinies.

Starbuck_II
2008-11-21, 02:55 PM
Probably quite a few, lacking a tongue and all.

Agreed, they have no rongue. They will have to ask the Mr. Owlbear.

KazilDarkeye
2008-11-21, 03:44 PM
I still seem to be the only one who says "l-eye-ch". I wonder how I arrived at that.

But, more on topic, "How many mugs of extra strength ale can the average Dwarf drink in an hour without passing out?"

Artanis
2008-11-21, 04:00 PM
Extra strength as in normal extra strength, or as in Dwarven extra strength?

KazilDarkeye
2008-11-21, 04:13 PM
Both at once :smallbiggrin: (call it a Dwarven Rum and Coke)

Craby
2008-11-21, 04:24 PM
They will have to ask the Mr. Owlbear.

win.

lets find out...
claw...
claw...
bite!

AslanCross
2008-11-21, 04:44 PM
My biggest question is that in all the fortresses, cavern strongholds, secret hideouts, etc., why are there never restrooms in them? I think WotC has a conspiracy against toilets.

The fortress my players are currently raiding has a latrine. In fact it was one of the possible entry points. But yeah, I'm guessing that most fortresses just use chamber pots and have some slave empty them outside.

Lich rhymes with itch, drow rhymes with cow, and tiefling is "teefling."

I once asked in the RAW thread how many small riders a Large creature could carry. (Case in point was kobolds on a bluespawn stormlizard.) There was nothing in RAW apparently.

Roderick_BR
2008-11-21, 05:03 PM
If high level adventurers can be attacked by wandering, powerful but CR appropriate monsters, why aren't low level adventurers attacked and quickly killed by similar, powerful, wandering monsters?

Similarly, if the quest of high level adventurers can be hindered by random, powerful monsters that just happen to be in the way, why don't low level adventurers routinely abandon quests because it's blocked by random, powerful monsters that just happen to be in the way and they can't defeat?
Bad DMing. My group always set CR by location and mission. They learned to not attack head first eveything that moves in both the campaigns me and another DM makes, due to the ocasional hill giant wandering through mountains, or the white great wyrms taking a nap in the snow mountains. And they do happen to find goblins and kobolds in places where peasants don't need to be 6th level to survive when leaving town.
Remember, D&D is not Final Fantasy Tactics (where all random encounters are ALWAYS scalled up to your level).

Deathslayer7
2008-11-21, 05:11 PM
I guess this is the best spot to post such a question.

Can someone who has Unapproachable East, or know the stats for the Shadow Walker template post it, including Spell Like Abilities.

Thanks. :smallsmile:

Coidzor
2008-11-21, 05:53 PM
Why isn't Palindrome actually a palindrome?

Why Atonement, really?

hamishspence
2008-11-21, 06:02 PM
Fiendish codex 2 covers it in more detail- in this, you need more than just the spell to "cleanse the taint of evil acts from your soul"

Doing it that way, however, is pretty harsh- fix damage done by acts (effectively reversing them), apologize, do some Good act assigned as a Quest, and have the spell cast on you.

if you die with lotsa acts unatoned for, but very very repentant, you become a hellbred- giving you a much harder Second Chance, effectively.

Thurbane
2008-11-21, 06:36 PM
How do commoners, and other non-adventuring types, gain XP and level up? Does begging have a Challenge Rating? How about fishing, or basketweaving?

Eldan
2008-11-21, 06:38 PM
Actually, there was an article somewhere, which brought up the idea of "Surviving as a commoner in a pseudo-medieval world" having a challenge rating of about 1/4-1/2 per month.

RTGoodman
2008-11-21, 06:46 PM
How do commoners, and other non-adventuring types, gain XP and level up? Does begging have a Challenge Rating? How about fishing, or basketweaving?

Back a while ago there was a discussion sort of like this, but for a 9001st level Commoner. For the types of challenges, see HERE (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3003461&postcount=26) and HERE (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3003775&postcount=29).

Heliomance
2008-11-21, 07:04 PM
They do. Both. In the campaigns I play in RL at least.

We had a sudden mission go awfully wrong when we enter the main room of the enemy camp and meet a Balor and his captains planing strategy. When we were lv10. Luckily not all the party had decided to enter the room, so those escaped. Mind you, we had no reason to enter that particular room, our objective was elsewhere.

We also use to find dragons(yes, several at a time) now and then, altough in those situations some ass kissing and briberies goes a long way to get out alive.

However, it's not a very common thing, because:
1-Low level adventurers will run away from very strong monsters.
2-Low level adventures won't acept quests to face very powerfull monsters.
3-Most high level monsters live in particular dangerous areas low level PCs avoid like hell. Like hell itself.
4-Low level adventures just aren't as tasty as high level adventurers so high level monsters don't bother to go after them. Also low level adventurers have fewer shinies.

How to beat a Balor when you are lower level:
1) Obtain a Mirror of Opposition.
2) Show the Mirror of Opposition to the Balor.
3) Let the Balor and its double duke it out. There is a 50/50 chance that the image will win. If it does, great! If not, the Balor will hopefully be so weakened by the battle that you can take it down after that.

We have successfully done this. The DM basically rolled a d4 and said "1 or 2 the Balor wins, 3 or 4 the image wins." The image won. We got a meteorite of starmetal and a mountain full of adamantium ready for the mining out of it!

Thurbane
2008-11-21, 07:24 PM
How to beat a Balor when you are lower level:
1) Obtain a Mirror of Opposition.
2) Show the Mirror of Opposition to the Balor.
3) Let the Balor and its double duke it out. There is a 50/50 chance that the image will win. If it does, great! If not, the Balor will hopefully be so weakened by the battle that you can take it down after that.

We have successfully done this. The DM basically rolled a d4 and said "1 or 2 the Balor wins, 3 or 4 the image wins." The image won. We got a meteorite of starmetal and a mountain full of adamantium ready for the mining out of it!
How low a level are you when you have access to a 92,000 gp item? WBL, you'd have to be at least 13th level, and have not many other items. The MIC lists it as a "20th level" item. :smalleek:

Anyway, here's another question:

Why do commoners and aristocrats have Listen and Spot on their skill list, but Fighters don't?

"Hi, my name's Bob. I fight men, beasts and monsters for a living, and trek through treacherous wilderness and deadly underground dungeons on a routine basis. But for some reason, people always seem to sneak up on me!?!"

Doomsy
2008-11-21, 07:31 PM
How are there wizened old timers chock full of sage wisdom if everyone, and their's mother's parents, are being murdered to send them unto the road of adventure?

Never have kids in a fantasy setting. It is a god-damn death sentence. If you don't have kids, you can live practically forever. I think some of the Faerun heroes might actually embody that, but I'm not familiar enough to say it for a fact.

Kris Strife
2008-11-22, 12:30 AM
How many monks could a chipmonk chip, if a chipmonk could chip monks?

Stupendous_Man
2008-11-22, 02:24 AM
How many monks could a chipmonk chip, if a chipmonk could chip monks?

I think we can all agree that the monk would probably win this fight.

turkishproverb
2008-11-22, 03:00 AM
I think we can all agree that the monk would probably win this fight.

Nope. Monk always loses. always. Part of the rules of talking about 3.5. :smalltongue:

Questions

1. Where do all the objects in the 4.0 world come from? People can't make them according to Raw, so they have to appear somehow.

2. Who put the bop in the bop shoo bop shoo bop?

Naleh
2008-11-22, 03:01 AM
I never knew there was a controversy over "drow," though. Given that its origin is Scottish, and the word is ultimately related to "troll", the pronunciation that rhymes with "land, ho!" or the "Lo" in Loch "Lomond" seems the obvious one.

But . . . I pronounce all four of those differently . . . :smalleek:

Kris Strife
2008-11-22, 03:19 AM
Why isn't Palindrome actually a palindrome?

Why Atonement, really?

Why is abbrieviation such a long word?

Why the platypus?

John Campbell
2008-11-22, 04:09 AM
One I've actually had cause to wonder about:

If I have a 16 Str, and am two-weapon fighting with my unarmed strike as my primary weapon and a guisarme as my secondary weapon (this is usually stupid, but AFAICT perfectly legal, and might conceivably be useful under odd circumstances), what's my Strength bonus to damage with my guisarme?

Kizara
2008-11-22, 04:28 AM
One I've actually had cause to wonder about:

If I have a 16 Str, and am two-weapon fighting with my unarmed strike as my primary weapon and a guisarme as my secondary weapon (this is usually stupid, but AFAICT perfectly legal, and might conceivably be useful under odd circumstances), what's my Strength bonus to damage with my guisarme?

If you can explain to me how that actually works via the rules, you can probably deduce the answer yourself.

Sereg
2008-11-22, 08:36 AM
Why the platypus?

Or more specifically, why the duck-billed platypus? Is there theoretically some other kind of platypus?

newbDM
2008-11-22, 08:45 AM
Why do half-orcs have a +2 to Cha?!

Flickerdart
2008-11-22, 10:33 AM
Why do half-orcs have a +2 to Cha?!
They don't, they have -2. Because they're ugly and are harassed in their childhood.

John Campbell
2008-11-22, 10:59 AM
If you can explain to me how that actually works via the rules, you can probably deduce the answer yourself.

No, really. You can unarmed strike with any part of your body, which means you can do it with kicks or head-butts or whatever with both hands full. This means that you can simultaneously wield an unarmed strike and a two-handed weapon. Given Improved Unarmed Strike, Two-Weapon Fighting, and a reach weapon, this is actually pretty useful. (Armor spikes instead of the unarmed strike are another alternative.) And it's pretty straightforward, as long as the two-handed weapon is primary... both weapons hit at -2, the two-handed weapon does +1.5*Str, and the unarmed strike does +0.5*Str.

However, there's nothing that says that the two-handed weapon has to be primary. It's not a light weapon, so making it your secondary is not usually a bright idea, but I can envision circumstances where it'd be desirable. But this means that it's simultaneously a two-handed weapon (does +1.5*Str), and a secondary weapon (does +0.5*Str), and they never seem to have considered this possibility when they wrote those rules. So does it do +1.5*Str? +0.5*Str? +0.75*Str? +1*Str?

Xenogears
2008-11-22, 11:17 AM
How come the rules specifically say that in order to have regeneration you have to have a con score and then they go ahead and make an Atropal with regeneration. It is undead and has no con score. I know its an abomination but did they have to make it break the game rules?

Mina Kobold
2008-11-22, 12:14 PM
I think exp has something to do with experience in your job.Like fighters fight and learn how to do the right things in a fight so great it ends up as an instinct, wizards trainninge their somatic and spoken components so they can say/do it quicker and without errors and do more advanced stuff, why shouldn't a farmer get exp for farming (I got the idea that your position has something to do with level such as: Commoner: lv. 1-3 farmer, lv. 4-6 citizen, lv. 7-9 innkeeper (citizens work in the inn), lv. 10-13 leader of village, etc).

Starbuck_II
2008-11-22, 12:59 PM
I think exp has something to do with experience in your job.Like fighters fight and learn how to do the right things in a fight so great it ends up as an instinct, wizards trainninge their somatic and spoken components so they can say/do it quicker and without errors and do more advanced stuff, why shouldn't a farmer get exp for farming (I got the idea that your position has something to do with level such as: Commoner: lv. 1-3 farmer, lv. 4-6 citizen, lv. 7-9 innkeeper (citizens work in the inn), lv. 10-13 leader of village, etc).

Wait, so creating (Magic Items) something makes you less good at your job?

Flickerdart:


They don't, they have -2. Because they're ugly and are harassed in their childhood.

But Cha has little to do with looks. Unless you figure Mindflayers and Aboleths are dead sexy.

Eldan
2008-11-22, 01:06 PM
It's mental strenght, self-confidence and how convincing you are.
Apparently, half-orks aren't, because everyone hates them.

Artanis
2008-11-22, 01:46 PM
But Cha has little to do with looks. Unless you figure Mindflayers and Aboleths are dead sexy.

...but in 3.5, it says that, among other things, physical attractiveness is part of Charisma. I guess Mindflayers and whatnot are just so persuasive (forceful, etc.) to make up for being an abomination with a squid for a head.

RebelRogue
2008-11-22, 01:48 PM
42!

.
.
.

Oh, sorry... I thought this was the "Answers no one knows the Questions to..." thread.

:smallwink:

hamishspence
2008-11-22, 01:49 PM
maybe 4th ed had a point when both Cha and Wis could affet your Will defence- one of the other.

If you are "strong willed" is it just ability to project that strong will on others, that makes you Charismatic (without any training)?

newbDM
2008-11-22, 01:55 PM
They don't, they have -2. Because they're ugly and are harassed in their childhood.

I meant in 4ed.

hamishspence
2008-11-22, 01:57 PM
Orogs got +2 in 3rd ed- were atypical of orcs.

Maybe Charisma is needed to get a bunch of Chaotic Evil creatures all working toward same goal, and, because it helps out with intimidation or inspiration, it became typical trait.

RTGoodman
2008-11-22, 02:57 PM
I meant in 4ed.

Well, considering I don't think there even ARE Half-Orcs yet in 4E, I have NO idea why they have a +2 Cha. (They could be in some Dragon article I haven't gotten to yet, though, so correct me if I'm wrong.)

Starbuck_II
2008-11-22, 03:58 PM
I meant in 4ed.

1/2 Orcs aren't in 4th; maybe you are thinking of Pathfinder?

Thurbane
2008-11-22, 07:31 PM
Or more specifically, why the duck-billed platypus? Is there theoretically some other kind of platypus?
Why tuna fish? As opposed to tuna mammal or tuna reptile? If tuna fish, why not chicken bird or cow mammal?

Why do half-orcs have a +2 to Cha?!
I think the better question is why are 1/2 Orcs the only standard race that gets 2 negatives to abilities.

Collin152
2008-11-22, 08:44 PM
42!

.
.
.

Oh, sorry... I thought this was the "Answers no one knows the Questions to..." thread.

:smallwink:

Ah, but there are, in fact, an infinite number of questions with that very answer.
So, really, everyone knows the question.

Aneantir
2008-11-22, 09:33 PM
Ah, but there are, in fact, an infinite number of questions with that very answer.
So, really, everyone knows the question.

Well, I wouldn't go that far.
Everyones knows A question to that answer, but no one knows for sure which is the true question from which that answer is derived.

phoenixcire
2008-11-22, 10:26 PM
How many monks could a chipmonk chip, if a chipmonk could chip monks?

A chipmonk would chip as many monks as a chipmonk could chip if a chipmonk could chip monks. Which just happens to be the same answer to the woodchuck question.


Why isn't Palindrome actually a palindrome?

For the exact same reason as why "big" is so little while "little" is so big.

Vexxation
2008-11-22, 10:42 PM
Well, I wouldn't go that far.
Everyones knows A question to that answer, but no one knows for sure which is the true question from which that answer is derived.

Ah, but Marvin does. Nobody ever asked him though, because nobody ever knew he knew.

evil-frosty
2008-11-22, 11:02 PM
Why is that Bards, who are shallow, superficial dabblers in arcane magic, can cast Cure Light Wounds but Wizards, who study arcane magic intensly and can cast a far broader range of spells, cannot?

they did that to balance the game out if the wizards could cure, cast offensive as well as defensive spells y would u have a clr at all?

Collin152
2008-11-22, 11:04 PM
they did that to balance the game out if the wizards could cure, cast offensive as well as defensive spells y would u have a clr at all?

They do other things!


But, really, that's not the point of that question.
The point is that it makes no sense. At all.

phoenixcire
2008-11-22, 11:07 PM
How about: When they went from 3.0 to 3.5, why did they make it so Keen and Improved Critical do not stack?

Kris Strife
2008-11-22, 11:20 PM
WWJD for a Klondike bar?

The Glyphstone
2008-11-22, 11:25 PM
How about: When they went from 3.0 to 3.5, why did they make it so Keen and Improved Critical do not stack?

Everyone knows that one - it's overkill/backlash from the 6-20 Vorpal Razor Gauntlet Rangers of Doom...

Flickerdart
2008-11-23, 12:28 AM
But Cha has little to do with looks. Unless you figure Mindflayers and Aboleths are dead sexy.
I said harassed in their childhood. They're less sure of themselves and so have less of a force of personality.

John Campbell
2008-11-23, 02:56 AM
Why tuna fish? As opposed to tuna mammal or tuna reptile? If tuna fish, why not chicken bird or cow mammal?
Tuna instrument?


I think the better question is why are 1/2 Orcs the only standard race that gets 2 negatives to abilities.
WotC's trying to keep the green man down.


A chipmonk would chip as many monks as a chipmonk could chip if a chipmonk could chip monks. Which just happens to be the same answer to the woodchuck question.
They're not chip monks at all. They're French friars!

Kris Strife
2008-11-23, 03:02 AM
Flickerdart:

But Cha has little to do with looks. Unless you figure Mindflayers and Aboleths are dead sexy.

I'm sure that somebody out there does.

Thurbane
2008-11-23, 06:04 AM
I'm sure that somebody out there does.
If people can find Kate Moss attractive, nothing would surprise me. :smallbiggrin:

http://i36.tinypic.com/wwawyf.jpg

Hzurr
2008-11-23, 02:11 PM
Why the platypus?

The more I learn about platypuses, the more I'm determined that God simply had spare parts left over, and decided to screw with our brains.

http://www.snorgtees.com/ourpowerscombined-p-512.html

Inyssius Tor
2008-11-23, 05:51 PM
Oh, nice shirt. I want one.

('s pretty cool how platypus bills are actually these terrifically sensitive electromagnetic sense organs that platypi use to basically get Blindsight 5' when underwater, innit?

...hey, someone should stat out a Dire Platypus.)

Heliomance
2008-11-23, 06:54 PM
How low a level are you when you have access to a 92,000 gp item? WBL, you'd have to be at least 13th level, and have not many other items. The MIC lists it as a "20th level" item. :smalleek:


Huh, I knew we were over equipped, but I didn't realise we were that overequipped. We're lvl 14, and could probably have taken it anyway, but it was by no means a sure prospect, it had the home advantage, and we didn't feel like possiby having to shell ou for resurrections. We happened to have looted a mirror of opposition a while back, so we showed it to the balor.

Oslecamo
2008-11-23, 07:15 PM
They do other things!


But, really, that's not the point of that question.
The point is that it makes no sense. At all.

On the contraire. It's like asking why modern soldiers don't learn to use sword and shield.

Wizards are selfish bastards who hide behind tons of magic protections and thus never get hurt. They also don't care about their allies since they'll teleport the hell out of the battle when something starts to go wrong, leaving their teammates behind, but claiming they didn't lose, since now they're safe.

So, no self respecting wizard will bother to learn any cure spell, because it would mean admiting they can be hurt, or that they would lose time just to heal their allies wounds. No sir, if a wizard is casting a spell on an ally, it's to make him a killing machine, not just clean up some bruises.

Bards, on the other hand, aren't smart enough to learn all the uber wizard spells, so they're gonna get hurt, and they'll have to ask their allies for help.

So they take their time to learn cure light wounds, so they can patch themselves, and their allies, strenghtening up their relationships.

Heliomance:Well, our DM was being VERY restrict with the money(nobody had anything better than +2 at level 10), plus the balor wasn't alone. It had two other powerfull minions that alone would probably be a tough challenge for the party.

Vexxation
2008-11-23, 07:32 PM
Why is that Bards, who are shallow, superficial dabblers in arcane magic, can cast Cure Light Wounds but Wizards, who study arcane magic intensly and can cast a far broader range of spells, cannot?

Well, you partially answered your own question.
They're dabblers. They do a few things roguish, a few things sorcerish, a few things clericish, and a couple things fighterish. It's what you get when you take most of the core classes and wad them up in a ball. You get some combat ability (Especially when they use violins. Anyone have that picture?), some spellcasting (divine and arcane; both spontaneous), a Rage-like ability (Inspire), and lots of skills.

Dabblers. Jack of several trades, master of none.

Collin152
2008-11-23, 07:40 PM
Well, you partially answered your own question.
They're dabblers. They do a few things roguish, a few things sorcerish, a few things clericish, and a couple things fighterish. It's what you get when you take most of the core classes and wad them up in a ball. You get some combat ability (Especially when they use violins. Anyone have that picture?), some spellcasting (divine and arcane; both spontaneous), a Rage-like ability (Inspire), and lots of skills.

Dabblers. Jack of several trades, master of none.

But they cast them as arcane spells.
Wizards are masters of arcane spells.
They can't cast them?

Oslecamo
2008-11-23, 07:45 PM
Wizards are masters of arcane spells.
They can't cast them?

Who said wizards are masters of arcane spells? Last time I checked, there's plenty of sorceror only spells because only sorcerors have the necessary dragon ancestry to use them.

Vexxation
2008-11-23, 07:51 PM
But they cast them as arcane spells.
Wizards are masters of arcane spells.
They can't cast them?

Well, just because they cast them as Arcane spells doesn't make them of arcane derivation. After all, a Bard's spells are supposedly innate; they are related to the Bard's ancestry. Who's to say that there isn't divine guidance involved in the awakening of a Bard's latent talent?

Perhaps a deity projects its will into the bloodline at some point, unlocking the secrets of mending as arcanum.

One could similarly ask: If Clerics are the iconic healing class (Healers don't count), why don't they have access to the Repair spells of Eberron? If Cure spells still heal Warforged, why shouldn't Clerics get Repair as well? They are the "Masters of Healing."

Collin152
2008-11-23, 08:18 PM
Who said wizards are masters of arcane spells? Last time I checked, there's plenty of sorceror only spells because only sorcerors have the necessary dragon ancestry to use them.

I see no such spells in Core.
Nor do my Sorcerers have draconic ancestry.


Well, just because they cast them as Arcane spells doesn't make them of arcane derivation. After all, a Bard's spells are supposedly innate; they are related to the Bard's ancestry. Who's to say that there isn't divine guidance involved in the awakening of a Bard's latent talent?

Perhaps a deity projects its will into the bloodline at some point, unlocking the secrets of mending as arcanum.

One could similarly ask: If Clerics are the iconic healing class (Healers don't count), why don't they have access to the Repair spells of Eberron? If Cure spells still heal Warforged, why shouldn't Clerics get Repair as well? They are the "Masters of Healing."
Ancestry? Near as I can tell by Core, Bards cast spells because they sing really really sweetly. Like Orpheus. Nevermind his divine heritage.

As for Clerics and healing Warforged; Repair might heal Warforged, but then again, fire heals Iron Golems and Electricity heals Flesh Golems. Should Clerics be masters of these elements?

Doomsy
2008-11-23, 08:22 PM
Well, just because they cast them as Arcane spells doesn't make them of arcane derivation. After all, a Bard's spells are supposedly innate; they are related to the Bard's ancestry. Who's to say that there isn't divine guidance involved in the awakening of a Bard's latent talent?

Perhaps a deity projects its will into the bloodline at some point, unlocking the secrets of mending as arcanum.

One could similarly ask: If Clerics are the iconic healing class (Healers don't count), why don't they have access to the Repair spells of Eberron? If Cure spells still heal Warforged, why shouldn't Clerics get Repair as well? They are the "Masters of Healing."

Demarcation and trademarks. Wizards are forbidden to duplicate divine healing effects like that as mere magic except when they can or the clerics union summons divine lawyers. Bards are allowed due to the fact that nobody cares. The jury is still out on Cleric vs Druid, and a reward is offered for anyone who finds them.

Zeful
2008-11-23, 08:26 PM
Who said wizards are masters of arcane spells? Last time I checked, there's plenty of sorceror only spells because only sorcerors have the necessary dragon ancestry to use them.

Sorcerors are not related to dragons. Stop spreading lies!

Kris Strife
2008-11-23, 08:32 PM
I'm a little surprised the platypus thing went on as long as it did...

What is it like to be the bad man, to be the sad man, behind blue eyes?

Zeful
2008-11-23, 08:52 PM
But if it didn't we never would have know the singular amount of awesome that the Captain Platypus shirt is.

Roderick_BR
2008-11-23, 09:55 PM
But they cast them as arcane spells.
Wizards are masters of arcane spells.
They can't cast them?
Well, the bard's power is arcane in nature, but not exactly the same kind of arcane power that wizards have. Anything that is not given by the gods or similar is arcane. Bards have a different type, especially in 3.x, where it's more fluffed as magic music.
Wizards are master in their academic style, that doesn't work well with some spells, else they'd be able to cast any spell.

SilverSheriff
2008-11-24, 12:29 AM
So what are some questions that nobody can answer.


Where do all the left socks go? :tongue:

*you think about that for a minute and then your head explodes.*

this is in fact a reoccurring question in the D'n'D games I've been in, nobody has ever answered it. we went to a man of knowledge and one of the guys joked that the guy's head exploded.

Sereg
2008-11-24, 04:51 AM
Where do all the left socks go? :tongue:

*you think about that for a minute and then your head explodes.*

this is in fact a reoccurring question in the D'n'D games I've been in, nobody has ever answered it. we went to a man of knowledge and one of the guys joked that the guy's head exploded.

An advert in South Africa actually answers this question. There is an island that socks sneak off to in order to have a happy life. Sort of like the pen planet from the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy.

Roderick_BR
2008-11-24, 06:54 AM
Where do all the left socks go? :tongue:

*you think about that for a minute and then your head explodes.*

this is in fact a reoccurring question in the D'n'D games I've been in, nobody has ever answered it. we went to a man of knowledge and one of the guys joked that the guy's head exploded.
Blame him: Case file evidence (http://ihasahotdog.com/2008/11/19/funny-dog-pictures-case-file-evidence/)

Oslecamo
2008-11-24, 09:06 AM
I see no such spells in Core.
Nor do my Sorcerers have draconic ancestry.


So explain this: If wizards are such good masters of arcane, why do they need to carry with them a stack of books to help them do their work?

Thus they don't only need to prepare their spells ahead of time, they also need a book full of remider notes to do it. And they still cast less spells per day than sorcerors!

And even if he can learn new spells, he needs one day, seven pages and hundreds of gold to write down a single word!

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0306.html

How can you call that master level? He takes hours to do anthing!

Zeful
2008-11-24, 12:41 PM
So explain this: If wizards are such good masters of arcane, why do they need to carry with them a stack of books to help them do their work?

Thus they don't only need to prepare their spells ahead of time, they also need a book full of remider notes to do it. And they still cast less spells per day than sorcerors!

And even if he can learn new spells, he needs one day, seven pages and hundreds of gold to write down a single word!

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0306.html

How can you call that master level? He takes hours to do anthing!

Wizards are more like physicists. They have a lot of pages full of equations that tell them how x works.

Sorcerers are like math savants. They wouldn't begin to understand what those equations mean, but they can get the same result on their own. They are not related to dragons.

And the Power Word spells isn't one word that when spoken causes blindness, death, or pain. It's a process that grants one word with the power to cause blindness, death, or pain

Inyssius Tor
2008-11-24, 12:46 PM
My thought: you need all that extra paper to couch your Power Word in what's basically a arcane/lexical hazmat container. If you just start doodling Power Word: Death in your notebook... first off, you're going to be making will saves vs. death every time you read it; second, the power of the word is going to contaminate the rest of the book; and third, it'll probably just burn a hole in the page after a couple of minutes anyway.

hamishspence
2008-11-24, 02:05 PM
That an interesting way of thinking about it. In fluff (not necessarily rules) non-wizards who looked at contents of a wizard spellbook could suffer eye damage or go mad. Even wizards couldn't read clearly ahead of what they could cast.

Heliomance
2008-11-24, 03:04 PM
That an interesting way of thinking about it. In fluff (not necessarily rules) non-wizards who looked at contents of a wizard spellbook could suffer eye damage or go mad.

Well duh. That's because of the Symbol of Insanity set to go off when "anyone other than me looks at my spellbook".

hamishspence
2008-11-24, 03:10 PM
in 3.0, sure, but in books like Daughter of the Drow, just the words alone, no specific trap, could do this. our (female hero! OK!?) (and possibly something of a Mary Sue) copes just fine.

Thurbane
2008-11-25, 01:55 AM
Why do Favored Souls not have Knowledge (Religion) as a class skill?

"Oh hi, I'm a chosen warrior of my god! I kick ass in his name! Umm, but I don't actually know that much about my God or what he does..."

...and yes, I know it got errata'd but seriously - published in 2 books before this got picked up??? :smallconfused:

BardicDuelist
2008-11-25, 03:00 AM
How in the Nine Hells is Mephistopheles plotting to take over now that the big A is a god?

Whose side is Mordenkainen on at the moment?

How, with a deity that consistently tortures and kills them, the fact that their entire society is based around killing each other, their inherently chaotic nature, and the fact that they make enemies with practically every living, unliving, and immortal creature, species, and powerbase in the multiverse, again including each other, do the drow still exist?

Kris Strife
2008-11-25, 03:15 AM
How, with a deity that consistently tortures and kills them, the fact that their entire society is based around killing each other, their inherently chaotic nature, and the fact that they make enemies with practically every living, unliving, and immortal creature, species, and powerbase in the multiverse, again including each other, do the drow still exist?

Cause every one likes dominatrixes.

Kneenibble
2008-11-25, 03:55 AM
That's dominatrices.

If you are pronouncing Carceri as a classical Latin word, the dative of carcer (responding to a post a few pages back), it would be in IPA "kɑr'-ker-ɪ". Classical Latin puts the stress in a word of two syllables on the first (and therefore, the poster who said cae-sar' is incorrect: it's cae'-sar): and in a word of three or more, on the next-to-last if that vowel is long, or the syllable before the next-to-last if not. The E in carcer is not long, and therefore in its dative case carceri, the stress is on the syllable before the next-to-last.

IF you are pronouncing Carceri as a classical Latin word. It's also the name of a town in Italy, apparently, so ask them how they say it.

Just for the sake of pedantry, if you take pronunciation from the Anglo-Saxon root of lich, lic, you're fighting a vegetable, not the undead. If.

That's all I got.

Oslecamo
2008-11-25, 07:47 AM
Wizards are more like physicists. They have a lot of pages full of equations that tell them how x works.

Sorcerers are like math savants. They wouldn't begin to understand what those equations mean, but they can get the same result on their own. They are not related to dragons.

And the Power Word spells isn't one word that when spoken causes blindness, death, or pain. It's a process that grants one word with the power to cause blindness, death, or pain

Thus, you admit wizards aren't the ultimate masters of the arcane, and thereby there are arcane related things they can't do, correct?(the original question was why wizards couldn't cast cure light wounds and bards could, in case you don't remember).

Also, that's just your interpretation of the power word spell. Just like your intepretation of the sorcerors don't being related to dragons, despite books as dracomicon, races of the dragon and the player's handbook itself.

Sereg
2008-11-25, 09:07 AM
My interpretation of the power word spells is that the reason that they take up so much space in a spell book is that the wizard has to write loads of notes on pronounciation and inflection as well as what s/he is supposed to be thinking about when s/he says the word.

Zeful
2008-11-25, 02:05 PM
Thus, you admit wizards aren't the ultimate masters of the arcane, and thereby there are arcane related things they can't do, correct?(the original question was why wizards couldn't cast cure light wounds and bards could, in case you don't remember).

Also, that's just your interpretation of the power word spell. Just like your intepretation of the sorcerors don't being related to dragons, despite books as dracomicon, races of the dragon and the player's handbook itself.

The PHb has one freaking line, that suggests the "draconic heritage" is either A.) BS the sorcerer pulls B.) BS that the norms pull cause their scared of the sorcerer. The book says that no one knows how or why sorcerers get their power. And I haven't read the Dragonomicon or Races of Dragon. Nor will I.

And of course Wizards aren't masters of the arcane! It's silly to think so.

hamishspence
2008-11-25, 02:14 PM
Sorcerers can be related to Whatever The DM Wants. Exalted Deeds suggests some socerers have celestial in their bloodline, not enough to make them aasimar. Dragon had big articles with huge lists of possible heritage feats. Some may have made it into later sourcebooks, or been created independantly.

anything with a bit of magic that might have bred with humanoids long ago is a possible ancestor. Or simply living in a high-magic environment.

Zeful
2008-11-25, 02:23 PM
Sorcerers can be related to Whatever The DM Wants. Exalted Deeds suggests some socerers have celestial in their bloodline, not enough to make them aasimar. Dragon had big articles with huge lists of possible heritage feats. Some may have made it into later sourcebooks, or been created independantly.

anything with a bit of magic that might have bred with humanoids long ago is a possible ancestor. Or simply living in a high-magic environment.

Yeah, those bloodline feats. I find them unnecessarily stupid. Especially since most Sorcerer rewrites include them as part of the class features and never include a "None" heritage. Which removes their value entirely in my eyes. It forces the mindset of "My great-to-the-nth power grandmother was raped by some random [insert creature type here] monster. And that's why I have power."