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Behold_the_Void
2008-11-21, 03:53 AM
All right, here's the basic setup of the encounter I'm planning. It's just here for context, you can skip it if you wish.

The setting is post-apocalyptic mortals have retreated to walled cities and huddle in fear from the monsters of the wilderness. They have been called by a coalition of the gods, granted some divine abilities, and are being guided against a as-of-yet unnamed source of evil. Pretty standard stuff.

What isn't quite as standard is the fact that the enemy is resurrecting ancient war machines. Known as Gigants, these are modeled after the colossi of "Shadow of the Colossus" in that they're enormous creatures the PCs must climb on and attack at strategic points in order to defeat.

Recently, a Dragonborn cult has invaded the continent the PCs are active on with an army of 100 fully trained soldiers, which is more or less unprecedented in the current setting. They also have cannons which can break down most of the fortifications in the area.

The PCs attempted some diversionary tactics against the army before they could start down the river, but weren't successful and tipped the Dragonborn off to the involvement of the dwarves (the continent being Eladrin-dominated and the Dragonborn having just assured the PCs, working as ambassadors for the dwarves, that their only intention was to destroy every last Eladrin city and would leave the dwarves untouched. The PCs didn't believe them).

The PCs rushed back to the Dwarf city, which is barricading itself inside and sent them to aid a nearby Eladrin settlement. They were asked to gain the aid of the griffins nearby and attempt to wear down the Dragonborn forces with hit-and-run tactics while the Dragonborn make their way up the river to launch their attack.

Having just secured the griffin aid, the PCs are on their way to meet the army. They will soon find that the army hasn't broken camp, having sent word back to the mainland to bring in a stronger weapon to annihilate the dwarves.

That weapon is a powerful airborn dragon-shaped Gigant created by the Dragonborn of old. The PCs must bring it down before it can destroy the dwarven fortress.

Now for the crunchier bits.

The PCs will be fighting an airborne battle against the Gigant and a group of primarily dragonborn forces that are protecting it. The Gigant itself is about 50 feet long, and it's wingspan is probably going to be around 100 feet. The encounter itself is planned to last the entire session, and the PCs will gain a divinely-inspired recharge rate on their encounter abilities and second winds in order to keep them strong enough.

The current party is as follows, all level 5:
Warforged tactical Warlord
Shifter Rogue
Dwarven melee Cleric
Dragonborn Barbarian
Human Paladin

They are also mounted on griffins, which will serve more giving them increased mobility than combat aid.

The Gigant is not the primary encounter, it's more the batlefield with some added trap-like effects. The primary defenses take the form of Dragonborn Riders, as well as some other Dragonborn forces who are on or operating the Gigant. I'm looking for some flying creatures that can be modded to be appropriately draconic but won't overpower the party. They will have riders, and generally taking out the mount will get both, but they have added damage (I used a hippogriff/human berserker combo for the first Gigant which worked out pretty well). In addition, there will be ways to knock the defenses based on the Gigant itself off, so not all of these enemies will have to be strictly dropped to 0 or less hp in order to be defeated.

The problem I'm hitting is I'm not sure what kind of creature I should use. Dragons and wyverns are obviously out of the question, as are drakes. I'm thinking of modding some griffins to be a bit more drake-like, but I'm wondering if there is a more suitable monster out there or if I should just homebrew my own level-appropriate drake for the situation.

Are there any creatures that are particularly good for this kind of thing?

I'm also, in a more general way, open to some suggestions for possible creatures to mod into Dragonborn so they can fill a number of roles and make the encounter dynamic. Suggestions there are also appreciated.

Mando Knight
2008-11-21, 11:18 AM
Young Dragons might not be too powerful... Use Blues and Greens for moderately tough dragons, Blacks and Whites for weaker ones, and a Red or two for the toughest...

If you're running a game with Dragonborn cultists as the main antagonists, the Draconomicon would be a must. It contains rules for the Draconic template, as well as Wyrmlings, new Dragons, and more kobolds (including the Kobold Victory Table, with a 50% chance of dancing about, 25% chance of keeping itself from fighting effectively, and 25% chance of actually becoming more dangerous).

Behold_the_Void
2008-11-21, 01:57 PM
The Draconomicon is out? I haven't been keeping up, apparently. I will say that my preference is to not have to buy more books if I don't have to, money is a bit tight for me right now. The Dragonborn are among the more major enemies, but they aren't the only ones out there.

Lord_Ventnor
2008-11-21, 02:29 PM
The DMG provides guidelines for increasing or reducing monster levels. If you want, you could try lowering Wyverns down a few levels to allow them to fit better into the encounter.

Mando Knight
2008-11-21, 03:18 PM
The Draconomicon is out?

Yeah. It was released the same day as Martial Power. If you need a draconic-style mount for the Dragonborn that isn't too high of a level, here's a Dragonne (Warhorse with Draconic template):

Dragonne, Level 3 Elite Brute
Large Natural Beast (dragon, mount) XP 300
Initiative +3 Senses Perception +8; low-light vision
HP 106 Bloodied 53
Resist 5 element (breath weapon's element, see Breath Weapon.)
AC 17 Fort 16 Ref 14 Will 14
Speed 8, fly 4 (clumsy)
Action Points 1
Saving Throws +2
Powers:
Kick (standard; at-will) (melee basic attack)
+6 vs. AC, 1d6+5 damage
Trample (standard; at-will, melee)
The dragonne can move up to its speed and enter enemies' spaces. This movement provokes opportunity attacks, and the dragonne must end its move in an unoccupied space. When it enters an enemy's space, the dragonne makes a trample attack: +4 vs. Reflex; 1d6+6 damage, and the target is knocked prone.
Breath Weapon (standard; encounter)* Acid, Cold, Fire, Lightning, or Poison
Close Blast 4; +5 vs. Reflex; 2d8+4 damage of one of the following types: acid, cold, fire, lightning, or poison. The damage type does not change once it is chosen.
Charger (While mounted by a friendly rider of 3rd level or higher; at-will) * Mount
The dragonne grants its rider a +5 bonus to damage rolls on charge attacks.
Alignment Unaligned Languages --
Str 21 (+6) Dex 14 (+3) Wis 14 (+3)
Con 18 (+5) Int 2 (-3) Cha 10 (+1)

mangosta71
2008-11-21, 03:35 PM
You could also use the stats for giant bats and refluff them so that they look more draconic. Kobold riders tossing spears.

Asbestos
2008-11-21, 03:53 PM
\
The Gigant is not the primary encounter, it's more the batlefield with some added trap-like effects. The primary defenses take the form of Dragonborn Riders, as well as some other Dragonborn forces who are on or operating the Gigant. I'm looking for some flying creatures that can be modded to be appropriately draconic but won't overpower the party. They will have riders, and generally taking out the mount will get both, but they have added damage (I used a hippogriff/human berserker combo for the first Gigant which worked out pretty well). In addition, there will be ways to knock the defenses based on the Gigant itself off, so not all of these enemies will have to be strictly dropped to 0 or less hp in order to be defeated.

The problem I'm hitting is I'm not sure what kind of creature I should use. Dragons and wyverns are obviously out of the question, as are drakes. I'm thinking of modding some griffins to be a bit more drake-like, but I'm wondering if there is a more suitable monster out there or if I should just homebrew my own level-appropriate drake for the situation.


Do the monsters need to have riders? could they just be flying monsters sans rider? Anyway... if they need medium sized riders... then they need to be large. So, that does limit us a bit. The problem with just tacking on the draconic template is that they'll have crummy flight.

If you want just appropriate flying monsters, I suggest reskinning firebats or spined devils to be more dragon-like in appearance.

Someone suggested a low-level dragon, and I think this could work out. A young white dragon and a level 6 rider actually make for a 'standard' level 5 encounter. Similarly a young red dragon with a level 5 rider makes for a 'hard' encounter, but still one appropriate for a level 5 party. That is of course, for a party without mounts. Is the party mounted on griffons or hippogriffs? Will their mounts act on their own turns (as standard for mounts) or will they just be the equivalent of magic carpets and do nothing but move about the rider on the rider's turn?

Behold_the_Void
2008-11-22, 03:35 AM
Do the monsters need to have riders? could they just be flying monsters sans rider? Anyway... if they need medium sized riders... then they need to be large. So, that does limit us a bit. The problem with just tacking on the draconic template is that they'll have crummy flight.

If you want just appropriate flying monsters, I suggest reskinning firebats or spined devils to be more dragon-like in appearance.

Someone suggested a low-level dragon, and I think this could work out. A young white dragon and a level 6 rider actually make for a 'standard' level 5 encounter. Similarly a young red dragon with a level 5 rider makes for a 'hard' encounter, but still one appropriate for a level 5 party. That is of course, for a party without mounts. Is the party mounted on griffons or hippogriffs? Will their mounts act on their own turns (as standard for mounts) or will they just be the equivalent of magic carpets and do nothing but move about the rider on the rider's turn?

The purpose of the riders is that they're there to protect the Gigant. I had in mind some dragon-like but not particularly intelligent things, so the riders are there to make sure things go the way they're supposed to.

The Griffins will likely act on the initiative of the riders and attack as necessary, the characters will get to coax them into various actions. The griffins are proud and fierce creatures that the PCs have won the respect of, so they'll be pretty loyal, but they're also not going to move into unnecessary danger since they're intelligent enough to understand that if they go down in mid-air, the rider is in for a pretty bad time. I fully expect the players to hop onto the Gigant itself at various points in the encounter.

I like that draconic horse though, that's really cool. I think I'll use it.

And I'm definitely not above reskinning something to make it fit, I've done that a number of times already. I just want to make sure they have thematic abilities.

Asbestos
2008-11-22, 12:24 PM
The Griffins will likely act on the initiative of the riders and attack as necessary, the characters will get to coax them into various actions.

Then your xp budget is higher than I calculated, at least when the PCs are on the griffins. You could potentially do 2 of the suggested white dragon with rider combos at once.

If you can get your hands on the Draconomicon, that'd be great. Could populate the Gigant with Ambush Drakes, Abishai, etc.