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Mushroom Ninja
2008-11-21, 08:55 AM
If you play a gestalt Rogue/Swashbuckler with the daring outlaw feat, your rogue and swashbuckler levels stack for determining your sneak attack bonus damage. Is there anything prohibiting me from getting 40th level sneak attack damage at 20th level? Have I misread the rules?

Kantur
2008-11-21, 09:03 AM
From the srd (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/gestaltCharacters.htm): "A gestalt character can’t combine two prestige classes at any level, although it’s okay to combine a prestige class and a regular class. Prestige classes that are essentially class combinations-such as the arcane trickster, mystic theurge, and eldritch knight-should be prohibited if you’re using gestalt classes, because they unduly complicate the game balance of what’s already a high-powered variant."


Technically no, it seem to break any rules RAW (Though I don't have access to any of the books with the multiclass boosting feats currently), but as it's Gestalt, I could see it being quickly quickly houseruled to those feats being disallowed by balance reasons with the exception of ones like Devoted Performer, but with even that being changed to only allow the character to ignore the alignment requirement.

In short: Don't build the character around such things unless you're prepared for the arpet to be pulled from under your feet when you start picking up boxes od d6 for your damage rolls.

RMS Oceanic
2008-11-21, 09:11 AM
It's tricky, since stacking feats like that didn't exist when Gestalt was created. Following RAI, I would rule you couldn't take that feat unless you were Rogue/Swashbuckler//Other

Kaiyanwang
2008-11-21, 09:12 AM
From the srd (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/gestaltCharacters.htm): "A gestalt character can’t combine two prestige classes at any level, although it’s okay to combine a prestige class and a regular class. Prestige classes that are essentially class combinations-such as the arcane trickster, mystic theurge, and eldritch knight-should be prohibited if you’re using gestalt classes, because they unduly complicate the game balance of what’s already a high-powered variant."


Technically no, it seem to break any rules RAW (Though I don't have access to any of the books with the multiclass boosting feats currently), but as it's Gestalt, I could see it being quickly quickly houseruled to those feats being disallowed by balance reasons with the exception of ones like Devoted Performer, but with even that being changed to only allow the character to ignore the alignment requirement.

In short: Don't build the character around such things unless you're prepared for the arpet to be pulled from under your feet when you start picking up boxes od d6 for your damage rolls.

+1. By RAW you can, but technically such multiclass feats and things like mistyc theurge are the same, and MUST be avoided playing gestalt.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-11-21, 01:48 PM
I do think it should be legal, though, to go Rogue/Swashbuckler//Fighter if you want to. But yes, RaW it works, but RaI it doesn't.

RukiTanuki
2008-11-21, 01:49 PM
When I ran gestalt campaigns, I held my players to a simple rule:

Gestalt cannot be used to progress any ability faster or farther than the fastest way to do so in non-gestalt.

As such, any precision damage would go up (at best) as fast as the Rogue progression. The Daring Outlaw feat would be changed to read "Add together each gestalt character level containing a rogue and/or swashbuckler level when determining these benefits."

Mind you, I never did determine the best way to handle the scout//ninja, who would go ethereal, charge 20 feet, and strike with his ghost touch weapon, triggering both sudden strike and skirmish.

Telonius
2008-11-21, 04:50 PM
Not to mention the Ninja//Dread Pirate combination, which by all rights should cause the universe to implode in a meme singularity.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2008-11-21, 05:14 PM
You could go Rogue/Swashbuckler//Ninja, and get 20th level Sneak Attack and 20th level Sudden Strike. Or go Ninja//Sneak Attack Fighter (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#fighter) for the same thing plus you qualify for (Greater) Weapon Specialization, Weapon Supremacy, etc.

Riffington
2008-11-21, 11:33 PM
I think Ruki is correct.

Gestalt 20 is not the same as Level 40. When two classes offer progression in the same thing, you pick one. So at each level, for determining whether to add to your "effective rogue level", you can add the +1 for advancing as a rogue or the +1 for advancing as a swashbuckler... not both.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2008-11-22, 01:16 AM
I think Ruki is correct.

Gestalt 20 is not the same as Level 40. When two classes offer progression in the same thing, you pick one. So at each level, for determining whether to add to your "effective rogue level", you can add the +1 for advancing as a rogue or the +1 for advancing as a swashbuckler... not both.

That's absolutely correct. For example, a gestalt Rogue 15// X 5/ Assassin 10 doesn't get +1d6 sneak attack at every level from 6-15, even though the staggered levels would appear to grant that. They get Sneak Attack no faster than whichever class gives the faster progression, neither of which is any more often than a (1/2 level)d6 progression. You could take only one level of every class that grants +1d6 sneak attack at the first level, but there aren't enough of those to do that for even ten levels.

Aneantir
2008-11-22, 01:21 AM
That's absolutely correct. For example, a gestalt Rogue 15// X 5/ Assassin 10 doesn't get +1d6 sneak attack at every level from 6-15, even though the staggered levels would appear to grant that. They get Sneak Attack no faster than whichever class gives the faster progression, neither of which is any more often than a (1/2 level)d6 progression. You could take only one level of every class that grants +1d6 sneak attack at the first level, but there aren't enough of those to do that for even ten levels.

That may or may not be RAI, but it is most certainly not RAW. Strictly as written, you would gain sneak attack dice at every applicable level.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2008-11-22, 01:32 AM
That may or may not be RAI, but it is most certainly not RAW. Strictly as written, you would gain sneak attack dice at every applicable level.


Class features that two classes share (such as uncanny dodge) accrue at the rate of the faster class.
Sneak Attack is a class feature that two classes share. Therefore, it accrues at the rate of the faster class, rather than from both classes. This is both RAW and RAI.

Aneantir
2008-11-22, 01:35 AM
Hmm. Seems I was wrong. I completely forgot about that line of text. :smalltongue: My bad.

The Glyphstone
2008-11-22, 03:09 AM
Thus, go with Rogue 20//Ninja 20. Not very gestalt-efficient, but Holy Lots of Bonus Dice Batman!