[3.5]Looking for Unarmed PA feat

[RandomLunatic]

I swear there is a feat out there that lets you treat an Unarmed Strike as a two-handed weapon for Power Attack purposes, but cannot for the life of me find it.

Any help?

[RTGoodman]

I can't remember seeing an official one, but I homebrewed a feat once that was sort of like this:

Mighty Fists
Your unarmed attacks are particularly deadly.
Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike (or the Monk's Unarmed Strike class feature); Power Attack; Str 15+; BAB 3+
Benefit: Your unarmed strikes deal extra damage equal to one-and-a-half times your Str modifier, rather than one times your Str modifier. Also, when you use the Power Attack feat with an unarmed strike, you deal extra damage as if your unarmed strike were a two-handed weapon rather than a light weapon.
Normal: Unarmed strikes only deal one times the attackers Str modifier damage, and power attacking with an unarmed strike deals less extra damage.
Special: A Fighter may select Mighty Fists as a Fighter bonus feat.


I don't think it's too unbalanced, but feel free to fiddle with it if you need to.

[Thurbane]

You know, some people might say that feat is a little overpowered, but it might actually make monks, or high STR monks anyway, suck less...

[Kizara]

I can't remember seeing an official one, but I homebrewed a feat once that was sort of like this:

Mighty Fists
Your unarmed attacks are particularly deadly.
Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike (or the Monk's Unarmed Strike class feature); Power Attack
Benefit: Your unarmed strikes deal extra damage equal to one-and-a-half times your Str modifier, rather than one times your Str modifier. Also, when you use the Power Attack feat with an unarmed strike, you deal extra damage as if your unarmed strike were a two-handed weapon rather than a light weapon.
Normal: Unarmed strikes only deal one times the attackers Str modifier damage, and power attacking with an unarmed strike deals less extra damage.
Special: A Fighter may select Mighty Fists as a Fighter bonus feat.


I don't think it's too unbalanced, but feel free to fiddle with it if you need to.

Yea, I'm not really cool with that. I see what you are trying to do, but there's more elegant ways to buff something then to say "it works like 2Hed fighting."

Way too strong on its own and the flavor doesn't make much sense. There's a reason 1H/off-hand/2H PA works the way it does; it makes alot of sense logically.

Since the Monk's a silly class in the first place, I suggest you give them this (at least the Str part) as a class feature pre-level 10.

[Thurbane]

Maybe if you renamed the feat "Two Handed Smash" and you could only use it with both hands free?

[Kizara]

Maybe if you renamed the feat "Two Handed Smash" and you could only use it with both hands free?

And as a standard action? Sure, it needs a smiggen more polish but that would work.

You need to chuck in things like a BAB requirement (I'd go with 3+ here) and minimum strength (15+ in this case).



(You could also give it requirements of Charisma and ranks in Perform (overdramatic acting)) (/chuckle)

[Thurbane]

Yeah, I was thinking like how in a lot of older movies, the characters would interlock their fingers and smash the opponent with a downward chopping motion...

[Keld Denar]

Maybe if you renamed the feat "Two Handed Smash" and you could only use it with both hands free?

Unfortunately, Two Handed Smash has a nasty prerequisite. You have to be a Starship Captain named James T Kirk, or the feat grants no benefits at all. If you are a Starship Captain named James T Kirk, this feat also gives you the ability to force your opponent to make a fort save DC = 5x damage delt or fall unconsious/dead as the wielder wishes. DC is increased to 10x damage delt if the Battle Jump feat is also employed.

[Kizara]

Unfortunately, Two Handed Smash has a nasty prerequisite. You have to be a Starship Captain named James T Kirk, or the feat grants no benefits at all. If you are a Starship Captain named James T Kirk, this feat also gives you the ability to force your opponent to make a fort save DC = 5x damage delt or fall unconsious/dead as the wielder wishes. DC is increased to 10x damage delt if the Battle Jump feat is also employed.


Sup ninja'ed with alot more subtlety :).

[RTGoodman]

Yea, I'm not really cool with that. I see what you are trying to do, but there's more elegant ways to buff something then to say "it works like 2Hed fighting."

Well, that IS what the OP was looking for, so...



I do agree that it's kinda silly, but originally I called it Double Axe Handle and said you had to use both hands in order to use it. I was also going to use Str 13+ as a prerequisite, but that was covered by the PA pre-requisite. I guess I could up it to 15+, and BAB 3+ (or even 6+).

Like I said, it's up for debate.

[Aneantir]

I'd say have +2 or +4 BAB as a prerequisite, instead of +3 or +6, so that Monks actually have access to it for their 3rd or 6th level feats as opposed to having to wait another 3 levels to get what other classes get anyway.

[Thurbane]

I do agree that it's kinda silly, but originally I called it Double Axe Handle and said you had to use both hands in order to use it. I was also going to use Str 13+ as a prerequisite, but that was covered by the PA pre-requisite. I guess I could up it to 15+, and BAB 3+ (or even 6+).
That's pretty cool right there.

[Kizara]

Well, that IS what the OP was looking for, so...
[quote]
True enough.


[quote] I do agree that it's kinda silly, but originally I called it Double Axe Handle and said you had to use both hands in order to use it. I was also going to use Str 13+ as a prerequisite, but that was covered by the PA pre-requisite. I guess I could up it to 15+, and BAB 3+ (or even 6+).

Like I said, it's up for debate.

You need the wording "As a standard action, you may make a single melee attack" near the begining, as well as some re-fluffing to make it not both unbalanced and silly.

Throw in 4+ BAB and 15 str pre-reqs and you are good-to-go.

(the balance concern is assuming that you haven't altered and improved the Monk class, as almost everyone does.)


As an aside, I just dislike monks, ninjas and the rest of that nonsense and ban them for setting reasons. I started to remake and fix the monk class, got going on it, realized I just couldn't make myself care enough to do a decent job, and just banned the half-finished crap I made. :P

[Thurbane]

Limiting to a single attack per round would make the feat pretty weak...

[Leewei]

Unfortunately, Two Handed Smash has a nasty prerequisite. You have to be a Starship Captain named James T Kirk, or the feat grants no benefits at all. If you are a Starship Captain named James T Kirk, this feat also gives you the ability to force your opponent to make a fort save DC = 5x damage delt or fall unconsious/dead as the wielder wishes. DC is increased to 10x damage delt if the Battle Jump feat is also employed.

If this is the case, best change the prerequisite from Str to Con...

CON!!!!

[Meat Shield]

If this is the case, best change the prerequisite from Str to Con...

CON!!!!

OK, that one was painful. Well done.

[Quirinus_Obsidian]

If this is the case, best change the prerequisite from Str to Con...

CON!!!!

/groan.....

[Nerd-o-rama]

Wait, how is this overpowered to add to every attack? Sure, every monk will want to take it (give it to them as a bonus feat? The class could use some help with damage anyway), but as written, combined with Superior Unarmed Strike, this would actually make unarmed fighting almost somewhat viable for non-Monk characters (example: charger fighters who want to flying kick a dude). This is a good thing in my opinion.

A "both hands free" requisite is a good idea...but then, you can get powerful strikes with your legs just as easily (more easily). Rename the feat "Roundhouse kick?"

[Demons_eye]

Flying roundhouse kick for the win?

[monty]

If this is the case, best change the prerequisite from Str to Con...

CON!!!!

Unfortunately, yours is not the superior intellect. Because, y'know, monks are MAD. They can't afford that much Int.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Flying roundhouse kick for the win?

Ugh. Bad associations. Never mind.

[Zenos]

Wait, how is this overpowered to add to every attack? Sure, every monk will want to take it (give it to them as a bonus feat? The class could use some help with damage anyway), but as written, combined with Superior Unarmed Strike, this would actually make unarmed fighting almost somewhat viable for non-Monk characters (example: charger fighters who want to flying kick a dude). This is a good thing in my opinion.

A "both hands free" requisite is a good idea...but then, you can get powerful strikes with your legs just as easily (more easily). Rename the feat "Roundhouse kick?"

Then I'll make a monk named "Chuck Novis". :smallwink:

[Fizban]

There's a feat from Dragon Magazine/the Dragon Compendium that does that, pretty much just like Kizara wants. Don't remember what type of action, but you only got one attack with it.

I of course vote to just let it work on all attacks. Unarmed fighting is unquestionably inferior, requiring multiple feats to get close to weapons. No reason not to let them get the rest of the way there if they want to blow the feats.

[Keld Denar]

Am I the only one with a sudden urge to make a monkish character with both Pounce and the Flying Kick feat?

Maybe name him Lui Kang?

BICYCLE KICK MOFOS!

[Kizara]

There's a feat from Dragon Magazine/the Dragon Compendium that does that, pretty much just like Kizara wants. Don't remember what type of action, but you only got one attack with it.

I of course vote to just let it work on all attacks. Unarmed fighting is unquestionably inferior, requiring multiple feats to get close to weapons. No reason not to let them get the rest of the way there if they want to blow the feats.

Hey, I love MMA. I watch UFC and K-1 fighting whenever I get a chance. I wish there was a real way to translate that intensity into a D&D character.

The way to do that would require a deeper unarmed combat system, not a single overpowered feat.
I don't like anything that is directly trying to steal the thunder/style of something else like this. In this case, the 2Hed fighter's damage dealing style/mechanics.
I also don't like anything that requires fridge logic to work, and this definately does if you don't make it a single action to do it.

You want to remake/buff the Monk? I got some ideas (that I haven't really implimented cause I don't care for the trope enough to do the work) that I could lend you, but this isn't the balance solution you are looking for.

This is what I call a ToB solution: cheesing up the underdog instead of fixing the actual problem, and buffing the original "underdog" without completely reinventing it.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Hey, I love MMA. I watch UFC and K-1 fighting whenever I get a chance. I wish there was a real way to translate that intensity into a D&D character.The problem isn't unarmed is ineffective in the game, it's that unarmed is ineffective IRL. Weapons are used because they work better. It's like Half-Plate:it desn't work in the game not because of an error on the designer's parts, but because it doesn't work.
This is what I call a ToB solution: cheesing up the underdog instead of fixing the actual problem, and buffing the original "underdog" without completely reinventing it.What issues did ToB not fix? The problem was that Fighters were boring, underpowered, and lack variety, ToB fixed all of those.

[Kizara]

The problem isn't unarmed is ineffective in the game, it's that unarmed is ineffective IRL. Weapons are used because they work better. It's like Half-Plate:it desn't work in the game not because of an error on the designer's parts, but because it doesn't work.

For sure; sometimes even I need to be reminded of that I suppose.


What issues did ToB not fix? The problem was that Fighters were boring, underpowered, and lack variety, ToB fixed all of those.

This amuses me, especially in response to what I actually said. :)

[Moriato]

Closest thing I could find was this:


Hammer Fist

DR279
p63

STR 13+
Improved Unarmed Strike

You add 1.5 times your STR bonus to damage. This only works
when both hands are used and when you are not doing a flurry of
blows attack.


Found it in some pdf out there on the interwebs. I assume DR279 p63 means it's from that issue and page of dragon magazine? I suppose it would be easy enough to rule that it effects power attack the same was as using a weapon 2 handed does, since that's essentially what this feat does.

I think this feat was probably 3.0, when flurry of blows just gave the monk one extra attack, might need to be adjusted for 3.5, where losing your flurry is a lot more detrimental.

[icefractal]

I'd say the only restriction it needs is that you can't use TWF at the same time. Other than that, how is it any more powerful than someone using a two-handed weapon?

Making it a standard action would render it mostly useless, as it becomes incompatible with common monk fighting styles like charging and spring attacking, not to mention obsolete at higher levels.

[KKL]

This amuses me, especially in response to what I actually said. :)

It amuses me that you'd think it would be simple removing the problem in the first palce, which would require WotC to retroactively take every single book back and chunk and strip nearly all of the magic spells that exist in the first place.

[Kizara]

It amuses me that you'd think it would be simple removing the problem in the first palce, which would require WotC to retroactively take every single book back and chunk and strip nearly all of the magic spells that exist in the first place.

Simple? Oh no, my Tome is nearly 50 pages long and I'm only half done the first line of completes.