Guy commits suicide on public forum.

[Tarnag40k]

The whole thing is pretty disturbing considering the forum members were egging him on.


Some 19 yr. old guy on bodybuilding.com forum told everyone he would overdose live broadcasting on justin.tv

Here's the cliff's from someone else. Pretty crazy

- CandyJunkie creates thread telling Misc. he'll overdose himself again on drugs live on Justin.tv
- CandyJunkie posts the amount of drugs he's going to take
- Mods don't take it seriously because of his past trolling
- People egg him on
- CandyJunkie posts a copied suicide note
- People keep egging him on
- He pops the pills and goes to sleep
- He breathes for a few hours, people think he's going to be alright and keep joking and trash talking on his JTV log.
- Some time later many people realize he was not moving.
- I find his personal details through E-detectivery, I figure out his name and number and location.
- Personal details posted on Misc. I request people to call the cops because I live in India and had no way to make International calls all by myself.
- People tell me he's a troll and nobody calls. Staberella especially is quite a huge cynic and says that he wasn't going to die on that kind of drugs, she insists nothing is going to happen and that people should just gtfo of the thread.
- I send an email to Miami Police on their official email on their website, Email not functioning!
- I call Miami Police from my dad's phone and speak to at least three cops and one person from the 911 line (whatever it is) for over 8 minutes about the situation, the people there do not take the case seriously and tell me to call the sheriff of his county, and give me the sheriff's number even after I told them I was speaking from a different country and that this was an emergency.
- I post the sheriff's number on the Misc. thread
- People tell me to quit worrying and that they're 100% sure its a loop and he's just fraudin'
-jjlee138 (Rep this dude) calls the Broward County Sheriff's office and speaks to them about the situation along with a couple of other people. By the time I called, it turns out 3 people had already called them about it.
- People wait for the cops to bust in on the JTV cam.
- Some people start thinking nobody called the cops, at least 5 more people call the cops, they were told the cops were on it
- 25 minutes after the first call to the cops, the cops bust in. They cover the webcam
- People speculating whether he's dead or not
- At this point of time a lot of people start deleting/editing their posts everywhere. PM me for the original thread content.
- Friends post messages on his myspace worried about him, no response from him.
- His best friend posts a thread on the Misc. and informs the people that he's dead.
- Some people still think its a bluff


VIDEO: You can see the cops busting in the door, and a peice of something flying and hitting him, and he doesnt move.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ftF41Vo0HY

Its confirmed that he's dead by CNN
http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/..._justintv.html

This is the cache for the thread on the forum before it was shutdown.
http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:iCJ0Fwq-DVwJ:forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php%3Ft%3D112065561+bodybuilding.com+ov erdose+again&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=au


His death note.

To Whom It May Concern,
I am going to leave this for whoever stumbles across my bookmarks later on.
I hate myself and I hate living. I think that if someone who knows me
reads this they will know who I am. So I will leave this unsigned. I am
an a@#hole. I have let everyone down and I feel as though I will never
change or never improve. I am in love with a girl and I know that I am
not good enough for her. I have come
to believe that my life has all been meaningless. I keep trying and I
keep failing. I have thought about and attempted suicide many times in
the past. I used to think of my failure as some mystical way of telling
me that I was really meant for something meaningful. The only thing I
dread, besides the pain, is the way my family will suffer. I do not want
my mother or father to think that it was anything they did that lead me
to kill myself. I never really had any plans of leaving a note. I
thought that I would not be able to describe why I want to do this and I
am right. There is no way to tell you or anyone else why I dread every
new day. My father had such high expectations for me and tried to give
me every opportunity to improve upon myself. I let him down. I think
that I am a major disappointment to him. I have a job but I?m always broke
and I am in college but barely, I show up to class but that?s about it.
I want my life to end. I am tired of f@#$ing up everything. I
am tired of people always telling me that they do not like me. I am
tired of trying to be decent. I hope that someone finds this post and I
hope that my parents know that I f@#$ed up not them. It is my fault I
screwed up my own life.
The hate that rages within me, rages not for those I love so dearly or
those who have crossed my path.
This hate rages full force towards me and only me.
I have long forgiven those who've hurt me, but I have not and cannot
come to terms to forgive myself for the things I have done to myself, and
the things I've done to hurt those in my life.
You have all touched my life in one way or another,
especially those whom I call family.
I cannot tell you how sorry I am for ending my life the way I did. I
hope that you can all find it in your heart to see it as way for me not
suffering anymore and that I am finally at rest with myself, for being at
rest with the guilt that constantly ate at me for so long.
Please forgive me all for taking my own life so early. I tried so hard
to fight against this strong battle. I have reached out for help so many
times, and yet I believe, I was turned away because of the things I did,
that it is a punishment I am willing to take, for I know that being who I am
has only brought myself and others pain.
I love you all and will forever live within the memories we created.
Forgive me.
Love always and forever,
As for my signature I will leave you with a quote so that if anyone
reads this they will know it's me, "Can?t feel pain if your dead? Just Saying"

[Syka]

I modded on a site for a few months over the summer and we had a number of people say they were thinking about suicide. All we could do was direct them to 1800SUICIDE for help. We weren't allowed to give out their ISP number or anything.

As far as I know, there haven't been any connected with the site yet. Usually, people form friendships and so at least one person will have their personal information to contact the proper authorities if need be.

But it's still scary. : \

Every now and then we'd have to delete the threads because it was a known troll who we had caught in lies (via their ISP, etc).

Cheers~

[charl]

This reminds me of the case of Ripper, a guy who accidentally overdosed on (insane amounts of) several different drugs on an IRC channel dedicated to psychedelics, a few years back.

In that case the people on the channel decided not to call the police to protect themselves, instead of saving the guy's life.

These kinds of cases tells you a lot of things you didn't want to know about the way group psychology works. :smallfrown:

[Flame of Anor]

Whoa, that's freaky. It's interesting to see the different characters of online forums. There, they were egging him on. Here, we'd be trying to stop him. On 4chan, they'd be encouraging him to perform bizarre sex acts while suiciding. Oh this crazy world... :smallfrown:

[RS14]

I'm sorry to hear that.

The reaction of the forum was disappointing, but not anything that surprises me terribly, unfortunately.

Would you mind changing the title of this thread? When I saw it, my first thought was that someone was posting here their intention to commit suicide. It gave me an unpleasant shock.

[[sWc]Konman]

this is really sad. but it does make one think he was a bit of an attention seeker, i mean, he posted it on a frigging live webcam...

[thubby]

i can't help but think "boy who cried wolf"
and what the media is going to do with this.

I'm a terrible person :smallfrown:

[Flame of Anor]

I'm sorry to hear that.

The reaction of the forum was disappointing, but not anything that surprises me terribly, unfortunately.

Let's just be glad we're on the blagotubes' bastion of truth, justice, and huggles. :smallsmile:


Would you mind changing the title of this thread? When I saw it, my first thought was that someone was posting here their intention to commit suicide. It gave me an unpleasant shock.

Yeah, same here.

[dish]

Thing is, we have had someone threaten suicide on this forum. Quite recently (have a look through the Depression Thread to find it).

I responded with the contact information for the Samaritans (a suicide prevention hotline) as I suspected the poster was British. But it is such an awful feeling to read a post like that and know that there is nothing else you can do.

Is there any kind of policy the mods could set up, or any kind of proceedures we could follow in that kind of situation?

[eyeofsaulot]

i can't help but think "boy who cried wolf"
and what the media is going to do with this.

I'm a terrible person :smallfrown:

No doubt about it; this is certainly a case of "the boy who cried wolf".

[Lord Tataraus]

Two dreadful words: An Hero

Truthfully, I'm not surprised at this incident, it isn't that common, but at least they were somewhat sympathetic after the fact unlike the origin of An Hero. One of the many reasons I despise 4chan. What did shock me was one instance not too long ago on this forum where someone asked about how to commit suicide in the depression thread and one or two people actually gave responses describing different techniques and their advantages and disadvantages. I was stunned when I saw that in this community.

[Mewtarthio]

These kinds of cases tells you a lot of things you didn't want to know about the way group psychology works. :smallfrown:

Side note: Large groups are actually less likely to help someone in need than single individuals. It's a combination of responsibility being less concentrated ("I don't have to do anything; there's a ton of other people who can help if things go bad") and a sort of peer pressure ("Nobody else is doing anything, so I guess I shouldn't, either").

[charl]

Side note: Large groups are actually less likely to help someone in need than single individuals. It's a combination of responsibility being less concentrated ("I don't have to do anything; there's a ton of other people who can help if things go bad") and a sort of peer pressure ("Nobody else is doing anything, so I guess I shouldn't, either").

My point precisely.

[Quincunx]

Two dreadful words: An Hero

Truthfully, I'm not surprised at this incident, it isn't that common, but at least they were somewhat sympathetic after the fact unlike the origin of An Hero. One of the many reasons I despise 4chan. What did shock me was one instance not too long ago on this forum where someone asked about how to commit suicide in the depression thread and one or two people actually gave responses describing different techniques and their advantages and disadvantages. I was stunned when I saw that in this community.

Why? I'm not surprised we have knowledgeable people here.

[thubby]

Why? I'm not surprised we have knowledgeable people here.

i think it's more a matter of the circumstances than the actual knowledge.

[snoopy13a]

Side note: Large groups are actually less likely to help someone in need than single individuals. It's a combination of responsibility being less concentrated ("I don't have to do anything; there's a ton of other people who can help if things go bad") and a sort of peer pressure ("Nobody else is doing anything, so I guess I shouldn't, either").

Yes, that's been studied by psychologists. My Psych 101 professor said that if you're ever in trouble in a public place to identify some person in the crowd and appeal directly to them.

There was a famous incident probably around 30 years ago in Brooklyn (I believe) where a woman was murdered in the street. The neighbors heard what was going on as she was screaming but no one called the police or tried to help.

[dish]

Yes, that's been studied by psychologists. My Psych 101 professor said that if you're ever in trouble in a public place to identify some person in the crowd and appeal directly to them.

There was a famous incident probably around 30 years ago in Brooklyn (I believe) where a woman was murdered in the street. The neighbors heard what was going on as she was screaming but no one called the police or tried to help.

I suspect you're thinking of Kitty Genovese (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitty_Genovese) and the bystander effect or diffusion of responsibility. But that isn't a factor here, the problem is that the other forum posters appear to have been actively encouraging him to go through with it.

It doesn't matter whether the boy was a known troll, a boy who cried wolf, or even an attention-seeker - the fact is, he was only 19. I understand that if a legal adult is determined to commit suicide it can be very difficult to stop them, but we all have an obligation to try. Whether we just give refer them to a suicide helpline or call the emergency services, we've got to do something.

Nineteen. His life had barely started.

[Thanatos 51-50]

Suicide is a very very, sad occurance in general. When man ignores his self-preservaation instinct for something that quite usually turns out to be invariably boneheaded and self-centered makes my little blackened heart fracture.

Example - read this guy's note. He cites that hes "In Love" with a girl, but hes too fubar'd up in all aspects of his life .
"Makes sure my parents know that it is I who is <explitive> and not them."
The whole note is littered with first-person referances.
Suicide is a selfish and self-centered act, and the ultimate act of vanity.

The fact that he posted this, and actually performed it on a public forum is shocking. With exact details, even. And nobody tried to stop him. I've been taught (Many, mnay long-winded times) to take every suicide threat seriously, as if it were the real thing. You'd think people would at least make last-ditch efforts when he turned on the webcam and sat in front of his computer with the pills.

The fact that nobody did is, in a word, and according to my personal sensbilities - disgusting.

I don't know whher to be sad or angry at this course of events.

Spoiler'd for pseduo-relgious content below:
May his soul find peace.

EDIT:
First post link is broken. Heres one: http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/11/21/webcam.suicide/index.html

[Bor the Barbarian Monk]

It's a terrible realization when one comes to the conclusion that the problem with humans in their distinct lack of humanity. :smallfrown:

May his poor soul rest in peace.

[Haruki-kun]

The truth is it doesn't matter how many times the boy cries wolf. It only has to be real once... and if someone has suicidal tendencies, he's most likely going to cry it several times. And every single time should be taken seriously. It only needs to happen once.

*sigh* This kind of story makes me so sad...

[averagejoe]

i can't help but think "boy who cried wolf"
and what the media is going to do with this.

I'm a terrible person :smallfrown:

I always thought of the moral to that story as, "You gotta help your mate every time, because there's always the chance he might not be joking."

[Moff Chumley]

A friend of mine did an essay on Suicide as the Result of an instant gratification culture. I think that that letter was a prime example of that.

[Saithis Bladewing]

The worst part for me is coming to the realization that after spending my life exposed to some of the worst, cruelest and most selfish souls in the media and in person, I can't even bring myself to feel bad for this guy. I wish someone had taken the time to at least try and stop him, but it only reaffirms my distaste for humanity.

[Quincunx]

Are any of you bothered by someone being able to glean his RL details from a forum post and a chat channel, within minutes? I am. I have been.

[eyeofsaulot]

I always thought of the moral to that story as, "You gotta help your mate every time, because there's always the chance he might not be joking."

Moral of the Story:
"Even when liars tell the truth, they are never believed. The liar will lie once, twice, and then perish when he tells the truth."

[averagejoe]

Are any of you bothered by someone being able to glean his RL details from a forum post and a chat channel, within minutes? I am. I have been.

A little, yes.

Edit:


Moral of the Story:
"Even when liars tell the truth, they are never believed. The liar will lie once, twice, and then perish when he tells the truth."

I know what the moral is supposed to be. I just think it's a stupid moral. 'Snot what I got from that story at all. I got that those villagers were a buncha jerkholes who let some kid get eaten.

[Lord Tataraus]

i think it's more a matter of the circumstances than the actual knowledge.

Exactly, I would not have been stunned if it came up in a "how best to quickly and painless kill someone" type of question (obviously in a RPG context) but this was a guy in the depression thread who asked for help in choosing how to commit suicide and people egged him on by giving him that information.

[eyeofsaulot]

I know what the moral is supposed to be. I just think it's a stupid moral. 'Snot what I got from that story at all. I got that those villagers were a buncha jerkholes who let some kid get eaten.

The kid took advantage of their helpfulness and played them all for fools. How are the villagers at fault?

[Quincunx]

I'll spell out why the suicide methods were offered. This will make the tactic lose its effectiveness for a short while should someone considering suicide read this post, but after all, this post is only words. . .

Maybe we must not commit suicide, but we cannot suppress the reflexes of life. The reflexes of the body fighting for life will always work, even when words* and mind and spirit have been dismissed. When words no longer work, and physical intervention is impossible on the part of the spectator, the spectator can try to invoke the physical reflexes in the would-be suicide. That involves getting the would-be suicide to choose a method weak enough or slow enough to make the body repent, and arranging for physical intervention through proxies if the would-be suicide becomes too weak to reach for them themselves. Intervention must be arranged ahead of time. The time lost by the "cliff notes provider" in finding the information might have made the difference.

*including these words.

[Jayngfet]

I always thought of the moral to that story as, "You gotta help your mate every time, because there's always the chance he might not be joking."

That's my interpretation of it, I know it's not the "right" way, but it's "my" way.

And yeah, egging on a suicidal kid seems a bit wrong.

[Linkavitch]

Poor guy. Both of them. Guy who Od'd, and the guy in India who was trying to save his life.

[averagejoe]

The kid took advantage of their helpfulness and played them all for fools. How are the villagers at fault?

Because they didn't help him when they could have. Just because they had a good reason (or any reason at all) to do what they did doesn't make them any less responsible for their own actions. I'm not saying that the kid didn't deserve a good thumping or that he acted in his own self interest, but that still doesn't make the villagers any less at fault. If he was my friend or neighbor you'd better believe I'd come running every time; it's inconvenient for me, but the alternative is even worse.

[Mx.Silver]

Exactly, I would not have been stunned if it came up in a "how best to quickly and painless kill someone" type of question (obviously in a RPG context) but this was a guy in the depression thread who asked for help in choosing how to commit suicide and people egged him on by giving him that information.

I've been trying to stay out of this topic but, in the interests of putting this particular issue to rest, I feel I should at least try and explain my actions in this event that so 'stunned' you. First I want to make it clear that I did 'egg him on' to kill himself. The fact you say that was the case betrays your own ignorance of the term (which is understandable as it's mainly a British expression). Egging someone implies direct active encouragement, with a strong connotation of goading. At no point did I say he should kill himself (there's also the matter that he stated his own reasons were more down to curiosity than a desire to end his own life).

You could argue that by answering I was making it easier for someone to commit suicide with as little pain as possible but I was not 'egging him on'. He asked a question, I answered it (not least because it was a question that had troubled me a lot for a time). In any event, the mods decided the post in question was against the spirit (albeit not the letter) of the forum rules and deleted it. For the sake of keeping this thread open, let's not go into and in depth examination of motivating factors an try to leave things there shall we?

[eyeofsaulot]

Because they didn't help him when they could have. Just because they had a good reason (or any reason at all) to do what they did doesn't make them any less responsible for their own actions. I'm not saying that the kid didn't deserve a good thumping or that he acted in his own self interest, but that still doesn't make the villagers any less at fault. If he was my friend or neighbor you'd better believe I'd come running every time; it's inconvenient for me, but the alternative is even worse.

I think it's safe to say our morals are clearly different. I don't fault the villagers at all; for his stupidity, the boy deserved punishment.

[Ascension]

I've been involved in two attempts to talk people out of suicide, once online through a (small) forum and chat room (He claimed he was about to do it and disappeared for a couple of weeks, but he finally showed up again and let us know he hadn't really done it.), and once in real life (The girl now claims to have no memory of ever being suicidal.), but in both cases almost everyone who knew that the person was threatening suicide did something to try to talk them out of it. Even in the online incident only one or two people immediately assumed it was a fake threat, and no one actively encouraged it. I would have thought anyone with a shred of humanity left... meaning anyone outside of /b/... would at least try to help... this is disgusting.

[Quincunx]

Mr. Silver: Interesting note: curiosity was not reason enough for the end-of-life seminar held in England recently about 'dying with dignity', not discussing public suicides but foreknown ones. They set a lower age limit on attendance so high that I don't know anyone on this forum who would have been admitted. Irksome as it is, there's a viewpoint out there that none of us* have yet put in the life-hours to earn, and we younger folk have to fashion our own facsimile of that view.

*I believe Zeb the Troll is the closest, but he fell under the threshold.

I wanted to post a link to the news of the seminar, but the BBC search engine has not yet spit out the right result. Watch this space.

[averagejoe]

I think it's safe to say our morals are clearly different. I don't fault the villagers at all; for his stupidity, the boy deserved punishment.

Yes, everyone who does something stupid should die.

I agree he deserved punishment, but that's a bit disproportionate.

[SurlySeraph]

Poor guy. I've been near that point before, and there was a lot in his note that I could identify with. I just wish he'd realized that things could be better. May his soul find peace.

[eyeofsaulot]

Yes, everyone who does something stupid should die.

I agree he deserved punishment, but that's a bit disproportionate.

Not really. He was gambling with his life - he took the risk and it didn't work out in his favor. It wasn't just something stupid, it was something really stupid and he got what was coming to him.

People drink and drive. It's not evil, it's just really stupid. And sometimes they die because of it. I don't mourn for them.

I'm not liking the sarcasm, by the way. I'm not saying your morals are wrong, but that mine are different. Please be more respectful.

[averagejoe]

Not really. He was gambling with his life - he took the risk and it didn't work out in his favor. It wasn't just something stupid, it was something really stupid and he got what was coming to him.

People drink and drive. It's not evil, it's just really stupid. And sometimes they die because of it. I don't mourn for them.

:smallconfused: Drinking and driving is pretty evil; you're putting other people at risk. It's not malicious, maybe, but you're definitely playing with the lives of others for no reason at all.

And so what? Should we stop helping everyone who gambles with their lives? Stop putting medical teams on racecar tracks? Not call ambulances for people who eat raw cookie batter and get sick? And not just random people, people who you've worked and lived with your whole life. If it was your brother or sister would you really ever not come running if you knew there was a real chance of them actually being in trouble?


I'm not liking the sarcasm, by the way. I'm not saying your morals are wrong, but that mine are different. Please be more respectful.

See, I am saying yours are wrong. I find the notion that people should die for their mistakes to be much more offensive than any tone you could take.

[Mordokai]

:smallconfused: Drinking and driving is pretty evil; you're putting other people at risk. It's not malicious, maybe, but you're definitely playing with the lives of others for no reason at all.

I'm just going to jump in to say that I don't agree with you here. I don't see drinking and driving as evil. Stupid, yes. Evil, no. Stupidity =/= Evil. It's not like you sit behind the wheel drunk and have something bad in mind. Well, some people do, but not must. And before I start rambling, I better stop. Right away.

[hamishspence]

in BoVD, a person who kills another through negligence "isn't exactly a murderer, but should lose paladin powers"

A person who knowingly endangers others for his own personal gain is "committing an evil act" especially if said endangerment results in death.

as for real world- issue is very tricky to discuss.

on subject of Death By Stupidity, suicide doesn't necessarily fall into this. Darwin Awards are intended specifically to fit this sort of situation, and suicides don't qualify.

In either case, while one might not mourn, a "what a waste" thought is common for more empathetic people.

[hamishspence]

Personally, while I might have trace of pity for the past version of him- he's dead, so most of mine is reserved for the people left grieving.

[Lord Tataraus]

I've been trying to stay out of this topic but, in the interests of putting this particular issue to rest, I feel I should at least try and explain my actions in this event that so 'stunned' you. First I want to make it clear that I did 'egg him on' to kill himself. The fact you say that was the case betrays your own ignorance of the term (which is understandable as it's mainly a British expression). Egging someone implies direct active encouragement, with a strong connotation of goading. At no point did I say he should kill himself (there's also the matter that he stated his own reasons were more down to curiosity than a desire to end his own life).

You could argue that by answering I was making it easier for someone to commit suicide with as little pain as possible but I was not 'egging him on'. He asked a question, I answered it (not least because it was a question that had troubled me a lot for a time). In any event, the mods decided the post in question was against the spirit (albeit not the letter) of the forum rules and deleted it. For the sake of keeping this thread open, let's not go into and in depth examination of motivating factors an try to leave things there shall we?

Using the jargon of "egging someone on" was probably not the best choice, however, that does not mitigate the fact that you posted possible suicide methods in a public forum in a thread dedicated for the use of people in a depressed state who would be most likely to read the post and take it as a reason to go through with it. To quench the curiosity, a PM would have been more appropriate. Even so, he had previous expressed an interest in ending his life, then asked "out of curiosity" about different methods of ending his life. How could anyone be sure he wasn't just saying it was out of curiosity since obviously that would bring more results since it is phrased as hypothetical. I would like to make clear that I do not judge your character by this one incident, I realize that many others could have fallen for the trap of "curiosity," but I do hope you have regretted that action and learn from that mistake.

[Bluelantern]

few months ago a guy posted that he was raped... the story is complicated... he is a porn star and many people seemed to focus in that as a actually valid argument saying that he story is a lie... well, there is several other complications then, he changed his story several times. So far I really don't know if he was telling the truth, but still the reaction of people there was just terrible.... >.<

[Helanna]

I'm just going to jump in to say that I don't agree with you here. I don't see drinking and driving as evil. Stupid, yes. Evil, no. Stupidity =/= Evil. It's not like you sit behind the wheel drunk and have something bad in mind. Well, some people do, but not must. And before I start rambling, I better stop. Right away.

I think it's definitely very evil. If only the drunk driver was the one to be harmed, I wouldn't think this, but drunk drivers deliberately choose to ignore everyone else's safety and risk the lives of everyone on the road with them that night - just because they didn't want to get a ride home.

To me, that's evil.


And on the subject of this guy, it truly disgusts me that an entire forum encouraged this guy to commit suicide. Suicide is never a good answer, and it confuses me that people think that it is.


A friend of mine did an essay on Suicide as the Result of an instant gratification culture. I think that that letter was a prime example of that.

How is suicide the result of an instant gratification culture? I'm really curious now.

[Mordokai]

Like I said, I'm not getting into that debate. Wouldn't end good. Suffice to say, I disagree.

@V with Death Dragon's opinion on how evil is drunk driving.

[Quincunx]

Using the jargon of "egging someone on" was probably not the best choice, however, that does not mitigate the fact that you posted possible suicide methods in a public forum in a thread dedicated for the use of people in a depressed state who would be most likely to read the post and take it as a reason to go through with it. To quench the curiosity, a PM would have been more appropriate. Even so, he had previous expressed an interest in ending his life, then asked "out of curiosity" about different methods of ending his life. How could anyone be sure he wasn't just saying it was out of curiosity since obviously that would bring more results since it is phrased as hypothetical. I would like to make clear that I do not judge your character by this one incident, I realize that many others could have fallen for the trap of "curiosity," but I do hope you have regretted that action and learn from that mistake.

Lord Tartarus: Please go read my post on page one.

DeathDragon: While I don't have that guy's essay at hand, I had been floating ideas on my home board and crawled around to the ideas of continuing life as inertia and suicidal thoughts as a test of impatience. The responses wound through recovering from depression as an act of patience, depression as virus, suicide as choice, choice as always available although obscured in depression, and foundered when someone else claimed there were times without choice. (The discussion continued, but brought forth no new ideas.) Since "culture of gratification" is shorthand for a lack of patience, that skein of thought might be relevant.

Mordokai: It's terrific that you took a stand, but I have no idea with what you disagree.
[EDIT: Thanks. With the thread moving at this speed, we've all got to be unambiguous.]

[Dragonus45]

I would just like to say something in defense of /b/ WE THOUGHT HE WAS JOKING Really how many fake suicides and jokes come up on that board. When I was watching I thought it was some elaborate prank. I didn't tell him to do it, and the people that did aren't responsible either. He did it himself, and turned it into a bit of internet legacy. It was a stupid and foolish action, anyone who spends two minutes on the internet knows what would happen if they were to pull the same stunt. He wanted an audience and he got one but don't blame them for the jokes and the sneers and the humor they brought. They were just doing what he wanted them too. Also not everyone on /b/ is a soulless bastard looking to end the lives 9001 kittens in a fiery explosion outside an elementary school. We do have souls after all. And on the subject of giving out suicide methods, that’s an effective deterrent. There is a site that gives you the full range of possible suicide methods, and the odds of success combined with possible outcomes. Show people the unidealized version of it all and the consequences of failure and many of them back down. That’s what saved me, and I’ve used it to great effect on a close friend not to long ago.

[snoopy13a]

Yes, everyone who does something stupid should die.

I agree he deserved punishment, but that's a bit disproportionate.

You're twisting the argument.

If someone falsely cries for help, they get attention the first time, the second time, and the third time. By the fourth or fifth time, they are percieved to be lying and people are going to start ignoring them.

The moral of The Boy who Cried Wolf isn't that the boy deserved to die, it is that if you cry for help when you're not really in danger, people are going to ignore you if you do actually need help.

[Pyrian]

I'm just going to jump in to say that I don't agree with you here. I don't see drinking and driving as evil. Stupid, yes. Evil, no. Stupidity =/= Evil. It's not like you sit behind the wheel drunk and have something bad in mind. Well, some people do, but not must.I think the number of people in this day and age who have not been exposed to the fact that drunk driving endangers the lives of others, or are so stupid as to be unable to grasp the concept, is miniscule. Choosing to ignore the fact that your actions endangers the lives of others is not, IMO, any kind of valid excuse at all.

If we choose to believe every excuse given, no matter how pathetic, than there have never been any evil actions in the history of the world. :smalltongue:

[Coidzor]

I still can't get it out of my head the question of whether that was a very poor choice of venue... or the perfect one...

[Mewtarthio]

I still can't get it out of my head the question of whether that was a very poor choice of venue... or the perfect one...

I think the appropriate term would be "chillingly ironic."

[Flame of Anor]

:smallconfused: Drinking and driving is pretty evil; you're putting other people at risk. It's not malicious, maybe, but you're definitely playing with the lives of others for no reason at all.

I have to agree with Mordokai on this one. You can't be evil without being malicious.

[Pyrian]

You can't be evil without being malicious.You can't be sadistic without being malicious. Evil doesn't require you to want to hurt other people; being more than willing to do so for your selfish convenience is plenty sufficient.

[strayth]

Well, at nineteen it often does seem like an uphill battle. You don't have the same safety net you did in school, you start looking at yourself as a man instead of just a boy. It was rough at nineteen.

Maybe he just needed someone to look him dead in the eye and say things change.

As far as egging him on? Here's my take, and it applies to politicians, actors, etc. Once you volunteer yourself into the public eye, you pretty much have to accept however that public reacts. Nothing about his suicide mandated the broadcast or advertisement of it, but he elected to do so. How much can we only blame the people that mocked him without requiring him to be responsible with his choices? It was his choice, and I assume he knew it could go that way.

It's a sad thing, but the people who mocked him aren't the only ones to blame. He solicited a reaction from people.

[Copacetic]

I would just like to say something in defense of /b/ WE THOUGHT HE WAS JOKING Really how many fake suicides and jokes come up on that board. When I was watching I thought it was some elaborate prank. I didn't tell him to do it, and the people that did aren't responsible either. He did it himself, and turned it into a bit of internet legacy. It was a stupid and foolish action, anyone who spends two minutes on the internet knows what would happen if they were to pull the same stunt. He wanted an audience and he got one but don't blame them for the jokes and the sneers and the humor they brought. They were just doing what he wanted them too. Also not everyone on /b/ is a soulless bastard looking to end the lives 9001 kittens in a fiery explosion outside an elementary school. We do have souls after all. And on the subject of giving out suicide methods, that’s an effective deterrent. There is a site that gives you the full range of possible suicide methods, and the odds of success combined with possible outcomes. Show people the unidealized version of it all and the consequences of failure and many of them back down. That’s what saved me, and I’ve used it to great effect on a close friend not to long ago.

Funnily enough, this reminded me of a story: Not Long ago, someone left a note in the university saying that they were going to kill someone on Green Street on Halloween night. Say I was to take a chair, some popcorn, and wait for someone to get shot on Halloween. Say I yell"Whoo! Shoot him Shoot him!" down the street. Say he does.

"But Officer, I thought he was joking. How Many fake threats come into this town? When I was watching I thought it was some elaborate prank. It was a stupid and foolish action, anyone knows what would happen if they were to pull that stunt. He wanted an audience and he got one but don't blame me for the jokes and the sneers and the humor I brought. I was just doing what he wanted me too."

Yeah. Thought so.

[thubby]

Funnily enough, this reminded me of a story: Not Long ago, someone left a note in the university saying that they were going to kill someone on Green Street on Halloween night. Say I was to take a chair, some popcorn, and wait for someone to get shot on Halloween. Say I yell"Whoo! Shoot him Shoot him!" down the street. Say he does.

"But Officer, I thought he was joking. How Many fake threats come into this town? When I was watching I thought it was some elaborate prank. It was a stupid and foolish action, anyone knows what would happen if they were to pull that stunt. He wanted an audience and he got one but don't blame me for the jokes and the sneers and the humor I brought. I was just doing what he wanted me too."

Yeah. Thought so.

except a forum isn't reality. you can't take away what is lacking on one of these, add in all the wonderful anonymity, and hold it to the same standard.
it would be more akin to dealing with an attention seeking child. they start screaming and pounding their fists and say "they're gonna die". you know what to tell them? "go ahead"

[Copacetic]

except a forum isn't reality. you can't take away what is lacking on one of these, add in all the wonderful anonymity, and hold it to the same standard.
it would be more akin to dealing with an attention seeking child. they start screaming and pounding their fists and say "they're gonna die". you know what to tell them? "go ahead"
You know what you don't tell a 19 year old who says he will and is perfectly capable of? "go ahead"

[Kuma Da]

I haven't really scanned the rest of the thread, but Tarnag40k, I respect you a lot for trying to do something. Especially when most other people were just sitting by.

[Jokerz]

I'll spell out why the suicide methods were offered. This will make the tactic lose its effectiveness for a short while should someone considering suicide read this post, but after all, this post is only words. . .

Maybe we must not commit suicide, but we cannot suppress the reflexes of life. The reflexes of the body fighting for life will always work, even when words* and mind and spirit have been dismissed. When words no longer work, and physical intervention is impossible on the part of the spectator, the spectator can try to invoke the physical reflexes in the would-be suicide. That involves getting the would-be suicide to choose a method weak enough or slow enough to make the body repent, and arranging for physical intervention through proxies if the would-be suicide becomes too weak to reach for them themselves. Intervention must be arranged ahead of time. The time lost by the "cliff notes provider" in finding the information might have made the difference.

*including these words.

Wow. Even though I read the whole thing, and I know it's correct, something about the way you used the word "repent" made me cringe.

[thubby]

You know what you don't tell a 19 year old who says he will and is perfectly capable of? "go ahead"

i was aiming more for the spirit than the words. you don't feed attention seeking behavior, that only makes it worse.

[charl]

i was aiming more for the spirit than the words. you don't feed attention seeking behavior, that only makes it worse.

Better to have them seeking attention than to have them dead.

[Copacetic]

i was aiming more for the spirit than the words. you don't feed attention seeking behavior, that only makes it worse.

Give them attention.


Death>attention on a badness scale.

[averagejoe]

You're twisting the argument.

If someone falsely cries for help, they get attention the first time, the second time, and the third time. By the fourth or fifth time, they are percieved to be lying and people are going to start ignoring them.

The moral of The Boy who Cried Wolf isn't that the boy deserved to die, it is that if you cry for help when you're not really in danger, people are going to ignore you if you do actually need help.

No, I do understand that perfectly well. I just see the moral as, "Still come running, 'cuz this time it might be for real. Then give that boy a hiding or something, because he obviously isn't taking his job seriously enough." The boy could have been smarter as far as strategies for taking care of himself, and less of a jerk, but the fact still stands that all the other people basically let him die.


I have to agree with Mordokai on this one. You can't be evil without being malicious.

*shrug* We can split hairs about the actual definition of evil all we want. A person who drunk drives is still endangering, and often killing, other people. Even if your intent isn't to kill other people, you're putting yourself into a position where it could easily happen.

[thubby]

Better to have them seeking attention than to have them dead.

Give them attention.


Death>attention on a badness scale.

and if the efforts taken on behalf of this poor fellow were done in every case, the police would be effectively useless for any such case.

[Copacetic]

Yeah, cause if somethings turn out to be false the police should just stop bothering, right?

[charl]

and if the efforts taken on behalf of this poor fellow were done in every case, the police would be effectively useless for any such case.

I'm going to make a wild guess and assume you haven't experienced anyone close to you actually committing suicide.

It's better to give someone the attention they seek, then give them help with their depression, than it is to allow them to die. And while far from every suicide threat is real, it's real enough.

[Elm11]

I feel sorry for the man. But by the same token, i believe him despicable, disgusting, and selfish. He believed because of the circumstances of his life, that the best thing to do was end it. He didn't (or may have, but then ignored) consider all the poor people he left grieving due to his actions. His parents, family and friends, all cut to the heart by his selfish attempt to take the "easy way" out.

I feel sorry for him, but i really feel sorry for those that knew him

[thubby]

I'm going to make a wild guess and assume you haven't experienced anyone close to you actually committing suicide.

actually, a friend of mine did when we were in high school, thanks. :smallannoyed:


It's better to give someone the attention they seek, then give them help with their depression, than it is to allow them to die. And while far from every suicide threat is real, it's real enough.

fair enough i suppose, but it's not hard to see where the canned "make troll go away" response came in.


Yeah, cause if somethings turn out to be false the police should just stop bothering, right?

should? debatable.
will? absolutely.

[charl]

actually, a friend of mine did when we were in high school, thanks.

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to be rude or sound like an a-hole.

[Solaris]

The worst part for me is coming to the realization that after spending my life exposed to some of the worst, cruelest and most selfish souls in the media and in person, I can't even bring myself to feel bad for this guy. I wish someone had taken the time to at least try and stop him, but it only reaffirms my distaste for humanity.

The worst part for me is realizing, even if I'd thought the guy was completely serious, I woulda been the guy who told him to do it - and then proceeded to list off exactly how suicide is an evil thing to do.
And how it sounded just like something he'd do.
I wouldn't even have to know who he is. I just know the mindset and am callous enough to think that guy should've taken a long, hard look at reality before taking the plunge. I know I did.

(And if you thought that post was bad, you shoulda seen the parts I took out - suffice to say, I'm really not all that nice a guy when it comes to people feeling sorry for themselves.)

[Mx.Silver]

The worst part for me is realizing, even if I'd thought the guy was completely serious, I woulda been the guy who told him to do it - and then proceeded to list off exactly how suicide is an evil thing to do.
And how it sounded just like something he'd do.
I wouldn't even have to know who he is. I just know the mindset and am callous enough to think that guy should've taken a long, hard look at reality before taking the plunge. I know I did.

(And if you thought that post was bad, you shoulda seen the parts I took out - suffice to say, I'm really not all that nice a guy when it comes to people feeling sorry for themselves.)

Yes, because of course absolutely everyone who's suicidal is motivated by exactly the same thoughts you were and their situation was of course entirely analagous to your own and are driven entirely by self-pity as opposed to, say, self-loathing or serious mental illness or quite real cases of extreme, unbearable pain (physically and emotionally). :smallsigh:

Seriously, this would be the kind of post I'd understand being stunned by. Although I've seen far too many similar ones to have that reaction by now.

[Milanius]

See, this is why I don't get attached to people. Or post frequently. Or, hell, post in that depression thread [now complete with rules].

If I decide to off myself, I'll just inform few people I truly care about and that'll be it. No looking back. And no more tears.

Bethesda Game Studios Forums, where I frequent, had a similar thread about this event. Responses were, to put it mildly, much harsher. As if we should beat up the body of a man or woman driven to suicide once they're dead... since their mental or physical torment clearly isn't enough.
[/cynicism]

[Vagnarok]

This was sickening, but I'm not surprised that it finally happened. People have been attempting this for a few years as far as I'm aware of, maybe longer. Before now the police have always been alerted (and when they were, they actually did something about it), but I suppose it was just a matter of time.

[charl]

This was sickening, but I'm not surprised that it finally happened. People have been attempting this for a few years as far as I'm aware of, maybe longer. Before now the police have always been alerted (and when they were, they actually did something about it), but I suppose it was just a matter of time.

This is not the first time. There are many cases. One of the most famous is Brandon Vedas (wikipedia it or something).

[Solaris]

Yes, because of course absolutely everyone who's suicidal is motivated by exactly the same thoughts you were and their situation was of course entirely analagous to your own and are driven entirely by self-pity as opposed to, say, self-loathing or serious mental illness or quite real cases of extreme, unbearable pain (physically and emotionally). :smallsigh:

Seriously, this would be the kind of post I'd understand being stunned by. Although I've seen far too many similar ones to have that reaction by now.

No, but there are pretty much the same basic motivations behind almost any suicide. I'm sorry if I upset you (I honestly am), but I have approximately no pity for someone who succumbs to self-pity, self-loathing, or despair. I can get it if the person's terminally ill or something like that, but some kid who's in a self-induced depression and decides "I'm not going to keep going, I'm not going to suck it up and drive on, I'm just going to off myself now" is just despicable. Reading the letter, I'm getting a lot of self-loathing and self-pity, but he was a grown man. A legal adult. He had nothing stopping him from getting help except his own self. That, to me, says he just quit when the going got tough.
For the record, I differentiate between a real depression and one that's self-induced. A real depression has a chemical cause, imbalances in the brain. One that's self-induced is simply someone letting nasty thoughts run around their head too much. Self-induced depressions suck, but it's possible to force yourself out of them. Either way, the afflicted should get help - whether it be kith and kin or a professional. I'm not fond of the professionals' approach, but that's just my own cynicism and general disagreement with a whole lot of the psychology industry's approach (Be like everyone else or else! just seems... wrong.)
(I was more 'self-loathing' than 'self-pity', but that's my problem. My psyche is a can of worms we're not opening.)
(And lemme know if I'm crossing a line. I'm not trying to pick any fights here. Life and death is a sensitive issue.)