The path we least expect...

[Thrudh]

You guys notice Roy talking about getting back to "Base" (Durkon), even if it's the path we least expect...

Wonder what that foreshadows??

(didn't even really notice him saying that the first 3 times I read through this comic, I was so excited about Belkar...)

[RebelRogue]

You guys notice Roy talking about getting back to "Base" (Durkon), even if it's the path we least expect...

Wonder what that foreshadows??

(didn't even really notice him saying that the first 3 times I read through this comic, I was so excited about Belkar...)
He's referring to Durkon's ability to resurrect the dead. If just one of them manage to survive and get back to Durkon, everybody will be brought back form the dead.

[SPoD]

He's referring to Durkon's ability to resurrect the dead. If just one of them manage to survive and get back to Durkon, everybody will be brought back form the dead.

No, he means what path will they take to GET to Durkon. We know the destination, the question is, how do they get there?

I agree with the OP, I believe it is foreshadowing something completely unexpected.

[Scarab83]

He's referring to Durkon's ability to resurrect the dead. If just one of them manage to survive and get back to Durkon, everybody will be brought back form the dead.

I think he's talking about the "even if it's the path we least expect..." part. Who knows. Rich has been known to throw in quite a bit of foreshadowing once you go back and read through the entirety of the comic.

Edit: *shakes his fist at SPoD* :smallwink:

[Mithrilleg]

Belkar is THE halfling! All Hail the Sexy Shoeless God of War!!!

[Kish]

I don't think it's meant to foreshadow anything in the far future. Looking at the last few panels, the impression I get is that the path we* least expect is that removing the Mark from Belkar could lead to getting the Order back together.

*Figuratively speaking, not meant to imply anything about the expectations of specific people on this here forum.

[Thant]

He's referring to Durkon's ability to resurrect the dead. If just one of them manage to survive and get back to Durkon, everybody will be brought back form the dead.

Just a short off-topic question: can you resurrect someone if you don't have his body present, but do have all of the component/XP requirements and the soul is willing to get back on the material plane? If that's the case, only one person is needed to reach Durkon and he (time given) can raise all of them (order members) back.

[Hydro Globus]

That requires True Resurrection, a ninth level cleric spell - a level 17 or higher cleric could cast it, and there are no clerics such high level in Hinjo's fleet. Durkon is 14 tops (but I think he's only 13). Though Roy needs a true rez already (the corpse is not intact).

[RMS Oceanic]

That means our only hope for a quick revival of Roy, bypassing the golem retrieval arc, is thatthe rattling noise heard when Belkar shook Roy's boot in 579 (or so) is a toe bone or something that fell off.

[werik]

I think the path is through a newly revived Belkar. His dialogue is meant to be the dramatic set up to Belkar's return as an efficient fighter, not anything else so far in the future.

[Flickerdart]

That means our only hope for a quick revival of Roy, bypassing the golem retrieval arc, is thatthe rattling noise heard when Belkar shook Roy's boot in 579 (or so) is a toe bone or something that fell off.
Huh, you're right. Resurrection calls for "so long as a small portion of the body exists", as long as it was part of Roy at the time he died. If there's a toe left, we have Roy back!

[chiasaur11]

Huh, you're right. Resurrection calls for "so long as a small portion of the body exists", as long as it was part of Roy at the time he died. If there's a toe left, we have Roy back!

Heh. Could lead to Roy V. Roy's corpse fun.

[David Argall]

That means our only hope for a quick revival of Roy, bypassing the golem retrieval arc, is thatthe rattling noise heard when Belkar shook Roy's boot in 579 (or so) is a toe bone or something that fell off.

Golem retrieval is about mandatory.

Resurrection does not affect golems, and so as long as Roylem is walking around, Roy can't be resurrected, whether or not there is a piece of Roy in the boot. So a possible plot would be that V shows, disintegrates the Roylem and, after some moaning about how they had lost the chance to raise Roy, somebody finds the toe bone, and they procede to raise Roy. A simpler version is to just kill the golem, and Roy can be raised from the bones.
But as long as Roylem is active, Roy isn't.

[SPoD]

I have to agree with David:
As long as the Roylem is up and around, having a toe bone won't help. However, if the Roylem is toasted in such a way as to leave no easily retrievable remains (such as blowing up the entire castle), then any toe bones might be useful.

Of course, we don't know that it was a toe bone rattling and not just the sound a metal boot makes when shaken. It may be that we're all assuming something was important when it was just a sound effect added in randomly.

[Allerdyce]

I have to agree with David:
As long as the Roylem is up and around, having a toe bone won't help. However, if the Roylem is toasted in such a way as to leave no easily retrievable remains (such as blowing up the entire castle), then any toe bones might be useful.

Of course, we don't know that it was a toe bone rattling and not just the sound a metal boot makes when shaken. It may be that we're all assuming something was important when it was just a sound effect added in randomly.

But, as anyone knowledgeable in comic lore knows, a sound effect can change everything. I mean, The Night Gwen Stacy Died anyone?

[Dreamthiev]

Assuming that the rattling sound was a toe-bone or similar, I don't think the presence of the golem would hinder resurrection. It's true that resurrection does not work on golems, but Durkon wouldn't be trying to resurrect the golem, or even Roy with the golem. He'd be casting the spell on the bone, which is all of Roy that is left.

In fact, I don't think killing the golem would help at all as far as getting Roy rez'd goes. Even if the golem was killed the bones would be golem-remains, not Roy-remains. The golem would be the last thing they were prior to becoming remains, so I don't think they'd work to rez Roy.

[CasESenSITItiVE]

War and XPs spoiler

in the book, rich mentioned the fact that the OotS would split up, and to bring them back, it would cost someone a "terrible price" that could change them forever. they likely both foreshadow the same thing

[Scarab83]

War and XPs spoiler

in the book, rich mentioned the fact that the OotS would split up, and to bring them back, it would cost someone a "terrible price" that could change them forever. they likely both foreshadow the same thing

My money is on V paying that price.

[Tempest Fennac]

I would have thought the Roy Golem would be a non-issue if there was a toe bone due to how Roy's soul isn't bound to the Golem at all?

[David Argall]

Assuming that the rattling sound was a toe-bone or similar, I don't think the presence of the golem would hinder resurrection. It's true that resurrection does not work on golems, but Durkon wouldn't be trying to resurrect the golem, or even Roy with the golem. He'd be casting the spell on the bone, which is all of Roy that is left.
By most readings of the rules, Roy has become the golem, and any leftover parts are meaningless.


In fact, I don't think killing the golem would help at all as far as getting Roy rez'd goes. Even if the golem was killed the bones would be golem-remains, not Roy-remains. The golem would be the last thing they were prior to becoming remains, so I don't think they'd work to rez Roy.
This is clearly not the case for undead. Undead can't be ressurected, but if they are killed, the creature that they were before becoming undead can be. So if Roy had been made a vampire and then killed, Roy could not be raised while a vampire, but could be raised once he was a dead vampire.
The same model is being applied to golems here. As long as your body is part of a golem, it can't be raised, but once the golem is destroyed, you are raiseable again.

[mikeejimbo]

The path we least expect:
They ALL die, and meet up in the afterlife.

[Hydro Globus]

I think you all get it wrong. Roy can be resurrected or True resurrected. If they kill the Roylem, it (as a golem) won't be rezzable.

[Hydro Globus]

The path we least expect:
They ALL die, and meet up in the afterlife.

They get in a different afterlife. And being in a planescape-like setting was my idea first :smalltongue:

[RMS Oceanic]

By most readings of the rules, Roy has become the golem, and any leftover parts are meaningless.


This is clearly not the case for undead. Undead can't be ressurected, but if they are killed, the creature that they were before becoming undead can be. So if Roy had been made a vampire and then killed, Roy could not be raised while a vampire, but could be raised once he was a dead vampire.
The same model is being applied to golems here. As long as your body is part of a golem, it can't be raised, but once the golem is destroyed, you are raiseable again.

Could you please show us the rules about Golems and resurrection? I thought Golems != undead, although they sometimes use the same base materials.

Besides, wouldn't it be a great gag if Haley, Celia, Belkar and LokiCleric had planned to storm the castle, were just about to, when the bone falls out and saves them a lot of trouble?

[mikeejimbo]

They get in a different afterlife. And being in a planescape-like setting was my idea first :smalltongue:

Oh yeah. Haha, I hadn't thought of that.

[Shatteredtower]

By David Argall's interpretation of the rules, you can prevent any form of resurrection by using a single metacarpal from the corpse in the creation of a golem. Likewise, a bone taken from a corpse couldn't be used in a golem's creation if the person was raised first.

The reasoning is based on a misunderstanding of the rules for undead, which state that ressurection spells "turn undead creatures back into the living creatures they were before becoming undead." They don't say that you can't use any portion of the body that wasn't made into the undead to resurrect the person, as is normally the case.

Thus, one bone is still enough to resurrect Roy regardless of whether the rest of his body was made into a golem. undead, or post-digested dragon chow.

As for the issue of reaching base in this game, it's worth noting the strip's title -- as well as who got "tagged" in the last panel.

[PandaCthulhu]

Excuse me for partially quoting you...

By David Argall's interpretation of the rules, you can prevent any form of resurrection by using a single metacarpal from the corpse in the creation of a golem.
......
Thus, one bone is still enough to resurrect Roy regardless of whether the rest of his body was made into a golem. undead, or post-digested dragon chow.

I have to agree.

The golem is not Roy, it is merely a construct made with most of his bones. You don't need a whole corpse to ressurect someone, and I have always thought that the rattling boot was significant - it was only once Roy's corpse was golemified that I realised what that significance might be. I believe that the only thing that would stop Durkon resurrecting Roy using the toe bone would be if he has already resurrected him using a different bone.

My prediction(s) would be:
Haley dies, Celia dies, Belkar kills everyone else, except perhaps the cleric of Loki who removed his curse, then Durkon appears, Haley is resurrected, then Roy is resurrected from the toe bone, but Celia is lost forever, since Outsiders cannot be resurrected. Meanwhile V goes on to become a baelnorn. Then the order (except V) gets re-united (strip 700 or so) in time for their battle with Xykon (strip 850 or so).

However only time will tell if I am an accidental prophet, or a deliberate fool.

[Zeful]

By most readings of the rules, Roy has become the golem, and any leftover parts are meaningless.

Er. No. Try again.

Resurrection (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/resurrection.htm)


Resurrection
Conjuration (Healing)
Level: Clr 7
Casting Time: 10 minutes

This spell functions like raise dead, except that you are able to restore life and complete strength to any deceased creature.

The condition of the remains is not a factor. So long as some small portion of the creature’s body still exists, it can be resurrected, but the portion receiving the spell must have been part of the creature’s body at the time of death. (The remains of a creature hit by a disintegrate spell count as a small portion of its body.) The creature can have been dead no longer than 10 years per caster level.

Upon completion of the spell, the creature is immediately restored to full hit points, vigor, and health, with no loss of prepared spells. However, the subject loses one level, or 2 points of Constitution if the subject was 1st level. (If this reduction would bring its Con to 0 or lower, it can’t be resurrected). This level loss or Constitution loss cannot be repaired by any means.

You can resurrect someone killed by a death effect or someone who has been turned into an undead creature and then destroyed. You cannot resurrect someone who has died of old age. Constructs, elementals, outsiders, and undead creatures can’t be resurrected.
Material Component

A sprinkle of holy water and diamonds worth a total of at least 10,000 gp.

You cannot raise a construct from the dead because they don't die/have souls. Even if 99% of Roy's body was turned into a construct, any left over bits are still 1.) Roy's remains at time of death, 2.)Not part of a construct, elemental or outsider.

[Hydro Globus]

Sorry. I misread your post, you are right.
(Admins, feel free to delete this post)

[elliott20]

I still find it amusing that if Roylem were to put on a purple robe most of the characters would probably be unable to distinguish him from Xykon.

[Roderick_BR]

How is it the path we least expect? Everyone's been waiting for Haley to take Roy to Durkon for several (RL) months now.