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View Full Version : He took off the Gestalt restrictions!



AdamSmasher
2008-11-22, 06:04 PM
And so we can take hybrid prestige classes like mystic theurge!

I don't know what this GM was thinking. Now I can only hope he can deal with the ensueing cheese.

I, personally, am divided between making a Mystic Theurge(Wizard/Archivist)/Factotum and making a Cerebremancer(Wizar/Psion)/Archivist.

I know neither is particularly optimized... since Cerebremancer/Factotum would probably be best... but I'm looking for a little help in optimising them as far as feats and skills go... though keep in mind the character's backstory revolves around his persuit of knowledge and magic.

Anyone have any ideas? I'm thinking I would give the Mystic Theurge build Alternative Spell Source... but I was never the best at optimizing. My two best characters ever were a monk and a blaster wizard...

RMS Oceanic
2008-11-22, 06:07 PM
Did he also take off the dual-prestige class progression? Because that would make for an amusing combination of stuff like Wizard/Cleric/MT//Beguiler/Psion/Cerebromancer. More spells (and powers) than hitpoints indeed!

AdamSmasher
2008-11-22, 06:15 PM
Sadly he didn't. 'Cause tat would have been way too fun.

Still, TRIPLE caster progression.

Bu there was nother restriction I forgot to mention. If we take a dual progression prestige, the base class we tae with it has to be somewhat similar. No Mystic Theurge/Fighter shenanians.

RMS Oceanic
2008-11-22, 06:17 PM
So it has to be Caster 1/MT//Caster 2? That makes Caster 2 Progression rediculously speedy. We're talking level 9 divine (or arcane) spells at level 10!

Arbitrarity
2008-11-22, 06:29 PM
Gestalt doesn't work that way. Increase in caster level would be duplicated. However...

I'd go with the Wizard/Archivist.

As so:
Grey Elven Wizard 3/Archivist 3/Arcane Heirophant 10/Mystic Theurge 4//Factotum 5/Wildrunner 1 (ROTW)/Factotum 14

Wildrunner grants you Trackless Step, which allows qualification into Arcane Heirophant. All this does is give you more dual casting goodness, at the cost of delayed level in Factotum (Which hurts, but you still get everything by level 20. Except a few IP)

monty
2008-11-22, 06:32 PM
Play the Omnicaster! Or whatever the latest version is.

AdamSmasher
2008-11-22, 06:33 PM
What book is arcane hierophnt in?

Arbitrarity
2008-11-22, 06:35 PM
Arcane Heirophant is also Races of the Wild. See here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=796496). Full casting Arcane/Divine, intended to be Arcane caster/Druid, but the druid requirement is Trackless Step, which can be found in a few other places.

Douglas
2008-11-22, 06:48 PM
Ah, but the point of abusing dual-caster classes in gestalt is using the gestalt to qualify at a much lower level, letting you skip the whole gimped individual spell progressions thing. You don't put the two base casting classes on the same side, you put them on opposite sides of the gestalt so you can qualify for Mystic Theurge (for example) after only 3 levels, and then the PrC lets you effectively tack on a third class while keeping the original two at (near) full strength.

Factotum would probably be your best option for the extra class, but don't start it until 4th level when Mystic Theurge starts.

Arbitrarity
2008-11-22, 06:55 PM
Then you only need dip factotum. So Wizard 3/Mystic Theurge 7/Arcane Heirophant 10//Archivist 3/Factotum 5/Wildrunner 1/Factotum 11? Works for me. 20'th level arcane and divine, with 16'th level factotum, is nothing to sneeze at.

Mmm, delicious. Int to AC. Grab a Monk's belt and Kung Fu-Genius or just a Monk's belt, for the lulz.

Whoops. Needs to drop a level of Mystic Theurge to get Wildrunner. Take a level of Wizard or Archivist, your choice.

Roderick_BR
2008-11-22, 07:04 PM
I don't know what this GM was thinking. Now I can only hope he can deal with the ensueing cheese.
I don't know you, but I'd be VERY afraid of what he intends to throw at your party... :smallamused:

Knaight
2008-11-22, 07:19 PM
Probably other Gestalted characters, and or monsters gestalted into characters. Such as the horror that would be the warblade Allip. Or the totemist/anything with ability drain every attack.

Zeful
2008-11-22, 07:33 PM
warblade Allip

Better off unarmed Swordsage.

Jack Zander
2008-11-22, 07:51 PM
You're optimizing wrong. You take MT with wizard on the other side to get 2 levels in wizard each level plus something else on the side.

Fax Celestis
2008-11-22, 07:56 PM
Wizard 3/Beguiler 1/Ultimate Magus 10/Archmage 5//Archivist 3/Shadowcaster 3/Noctumancer 10/Mystic Theurge 4?

Flickerdart
2008-11-22, 08:06 PM
Blah, I was going to suggest using Ur-Priest for the Divine side, but you don't have enough room: you have to run all 3 on one side, and that leaves only 5 levels instead of the 7 you need for maxing Wizard casting. On the plus side, you max your Divine early, leaving you 5 levels free to do something else with it. Wizard 5/Ur-Priest 2/MT 8/Something 5(IotSFV? Incantatrix? Have fun here)//(Something with good Fort) 2/Factotum 18 (or even Psion 18 instead, for gits and shiggles). Still sort of works: 9th level Arcane and Divine spelling, and 9th level psionics, and some nifty abilities. PrC the Psion into something that fits, too. Take those last 5 levels in the first half as Cerebromancer so you can use those 5 levels for Factotum, if you want, too.

So, Wizard 5/Ur-Priest 2/MT 8/Cerebromancer 5//Psychic Warrior 2/Psion 15/Factotum 3. If you don't want to major in Psionics, switch for 15 levels of anything you want, since the 5 Psionics levels from Cerebromancer are pretty much free. So, if you can afford to sacrifice a few spells per day for Divine and Arcane, this gets you 8 levels of free Psionics, and 15 levels of Factotum. Not too shabby! Your saves won't be too good, though, since we're all classes with high Will.

Taking Wizard on the other side of MT is pointless: you don't get two levels of advantage, since it's the same ability, just like you won't get +4 will for starting Wizard 1//Monk 1. (Morbo deserves his moment in the spotlight).

Edit: Sorry, math was a bit off.

Arbitrarity
2008-11-22, 08:57 PM
You're optimizing wrong. You take MT with wizard on the other side to get 2 levels in wizard each level plus something else on the side.
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd80/AwXomeMan/morbo.jpg
We all know what goes here.

Class Features
A gestalt character gains the class features of both classes. A 1st-level gestalt rogue/cleric, for example, gets sneak attack +1d6, trapfinding, 1st-level cleric spells, and the ability to turn or rebuke undead. Class- and ability-based restrictions (such as arcane spell failure chance and a druid’s prohibition on wearing metal armor) apply normally to a gestalt character, no matter what the other class is.

A gestalt character follows a similar procedure when he attains 2nd and subsequent levels. Each time he gains a new level, he chooses two classes, takes the best aspects of each, and applies them to his characteristics. A few caveats apply, however.

Class features that two classes share (such as uncanny dodge) accrue at the rate of the faster class.

Spells per Day
When a new mystic theurge level is gained, the character gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in any one arcane spellcasting class he belonged to before he added the prestige class

Hmm. Do these stack? Gaining the spells known and spells per day by gaining a level in a class, and gaining the spells per day of gaining a level in a class?
NO.

Edit Ninja'd. Darn.

Flickerdart
2008-11-22, 09:00 PM
I ninja'd you, Arby...but you have Morbo, so I'll edit it out because your thing is awesomer.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-11-23, 02:51 AM
It's early, so this may not be perfect, but...
Wizard 1(Precocious Apprentice)/Beguiler 12/Ultimate Magus 7//Archivist 3/Mystic Theurge 10/Archivist 7
20th level Archivist, 18th level Wizard, Beguiler 16.

If he also removed the 'No to PrCs simultaneously' rule, then:
Wizard 1(Precocious Apprentice)/Psion 3/Cerebremancer 10/Ultimate Magus 6//Beguiler 1/Archivist 3/Mystic Theurge 9/Wildrunner 1/Arcane Heirophant 1/MT 1/Archivist 1/Arcane Heirophant 1/Archivist 2
Archivist 18, Wizard 17, Beguiler 17, Psion 13. :smallbiggrin:

jcsw
2008-11-23, 04:30 AM
It's early, so this may not be perfect, but...
Wizard 1(Precocious Apprentice)/Beguiler 12/Ultimate Magus 7//Archivist 3/Mystic Theurge 10/Archivist 7
20th level Archivist, 18th level Wizard, Beguiler 16.

If he also removed the 'No to PrCs simultaneously' rule, then:
Wizard 1(Precocious Apprentice)/Psion 3/Cerebremancer 10/Ultimate Magus 6//Beguiler 1/Archivist 3/Mystic Theurge 9/Wildrunner 1/Arcane Heirophant 1/MT 1/Archivist 1/Arcane Heirophant 1/Archivist 2
Archivist 18, Wizard 17, Beguiler 17, Psion 13. :smallbiggrin:

Precocious apprentice no work for reasons you can easily google and as such I won't type a block of text to explain.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2008-11-23, 04:37 AM
It's early, so this may not be perfect, but...
Wizard 1(Precocious Apprentice)/Beguiler 12/Ultimate Magus 7//Archivist 3/Mystic Theurge 10/Archivist 7
20th level Archivist, 18th level Wizard, Beguiler 16.

If he also removed the 'No to PrCs simultaneously' rule, then:
Wizard 1(Precocious Apprentice)/Psion 3/Cerebremancer 10/Ultimate Magus 6//Beguiler 1/Archivist 3/Mystic Theurge 9/Wildrunner 1/Arcane Heirophant 1/MT 1/Archivist 1/Arcane Heirophant 1/Archivist 2
Archivist 18, Wizard 17, Beguiler 17, Psion 13. :smallbiggrin:

No need for Precocious Apprentice, you can take Versatile Spellcaster and qualify for MT with 2nd level Beguiler spells, though still adding it to Wizard spellcasting. Then you'll still get 9th level Beguiler spells by 20.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-11-23, 04:39 AM
I think it does for similar reasons(Sorc 4 is perfectly legal MT, as is Wiz 3). Besides, this is a massively OP game, so I doubt it would be too unbalancing. You should see what's possible with unrestricted Gestalt and dual-progression/fast-progression classes.

Jack Zander
2008-11-23, 05:13 AM
GESTALT DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY!

Sorry Morbo, I thought that removing gestalt restrictions opened up that can of cheese.