D&D. The Grappling Pixie

[Ixahinon]

Will working on my campaign, I got to talking to one of my friends about things that break the game, or otherwise just seem impossible/outragous for even fantasy standards. i.e. Cure Minor Wounds Rock that is Continious, +1 Longsword of Continious True Strike, or an Amulet of Continious Resurrection.

Then he came up with this: The Pixie Grappler.

16th Level Fighter Pixie.

Strength 22 (18 Base) (+4 Item, -4 Racial, +4 Level Adjustment)
Improved Grapple
Gloves of Grappling (+5 Bonus to Grapple Checks)

Grapple = 16 (BAB) + 6 (Strength) + 5 (Item) - 4 (Racial) + 4 (Improved Grapple) = +27

Your Textbook MM Stone Giant has a Grapple of +22, giving a Pixie a little better than 50% chance to grapple a Large Creature.

Outragous? Definately, but would it be impossible? If I were not DMing the game, and was a player, I would actually applaud someone making a character like this..and actually succeeding in grappling large creatures. He seems to think Players would actually be really pissed if something like this was in the game.

Would you be? Or are people just embarrassed they got grappled by a small creature?

[Demons_eye]

I thought if you were 2 size lower then the other gappler then you lose.

[Ixahinon]

Maybe..I don't see it in the books

[Eloel]

You don't lose, but you get -4, and they get +4, which is an effective -8 on your part.

[Ixahinon]

Grappling has size limits.

You can grab a creature of any size, but you cannot establish or maintain a hold on a creature that is two or more size categories bigger than you. For example, if you're a Medium creature, you can establish a hold only on a creature of Large size or smaller. Huge or bigger creatures are too big for you to grapple

From the WotC.

Damn...that would be some funny stuff.

[Jasdoif]

Grappling has size limits.

You can grab a creature of any size, but you cannot establish or maintain a hold on a creature that is two or more size categories bigger than you. For example, if you're a Medium creature, you can establish a hold only on a creature of Large size or smaller. Huge or bigger creatures are too big for you to grapple

From the WotC.

Damn...that would be some funny stuff.It can still be funny, it just requires the larger creature to grapple you first.

There's the freedom of movement (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/freedomOfMovement.htm) problem when you start winning, though....

[Ixahinon]

Yea, but as I understand it..if the Stone Giant tries to grapple the Pixie first, then the best the Pixie can do is resist the grapple by beating his roll. That's not unique, anyone can do that...Ahh well..

[Jasdoif]

Yea, but as I understand it..if the Stone Giant tries to grapple the Pixie first, then the best the Pixie can do is resist the grapple by beating his roll. That's not unique, anyone can do that...Ahh well..The pixie shouldn't be required to resist the grapple attempt to start the grapple, though. And once the grapple's started the pixie is free to beat the crap out of whoever it is.

[ChaosDefender24]

A very effective grappling tactic for pixies is to be a binder, and bind that one vestige who lets you grapple as if you were a large creature...

[Rebonack]

This concept is far too hilarious to let stuffy old rules get in the way.

Rule Zero go!

[Ixahinon]

I'm probably still going to create the character for my campaign, but sadly, I expect a lot of controversy about it. I'd give the pixie an item or somthing to Enlarge him to a Medium sized, but that destroys the humor of it all...

I can wait until someone tries to grapple the pixie first, but that makes me rely on someone else to do something they probably aren't going to do, before I can 'make the joke' as it were.

I'm not quite sure what you mean about binding, however.

[RTGoodman]

I'm not quite sure what you mean about binding, however.

There's a new "magic" system and matching class in the Tome of Magic sourcebook called "Binding," wherein a member of the class (Binder, of course) uses special rituals to bind vestiges that float in the ether between life and death, mortality and immortality. Each vestige has a backstory and specific abilities it grants to the Binder once he performs the ritual, and these benefits usually take the form of minor to medium at-will powers that can be used until he lets the binding run out.

[Seffbasilisk]

Not grappling, but I made a pixie warblade once. If you focus on Setting Sun, you can be a pixie hurling the big folk around.

In fact, in that game, he did hurl the minotaur into a wall...

[Magnor Criol]

Incidentally, "The Grappling Pixie" sounds like a great name for a bar.

[Ionizer]

You could rule that the Pixie is grappling just certain part of the giant (Ultimate Freestyle Thumb Wrestling?). Or just go old school cartoon style and have him latch on to the giants face and start putting his tongue in a sleeper hold, then use his uvula (dangly thing in the back of the throat) as a punching bag.

Incidentally, I just figured out that Pixie's make excellent Stone Giant dentists...

[Copacetic]

He. Tehehehehe. THe Idea of Pizie grappler is so.... amusing.

[Douglas]

Not grappling, but I made a pixie warblade once. If you focus on Setting Sun, you can be a pixie hurling the big folk around.

In fact, in that game, he did hurl the minotaur into a wall...
If that was in the game I think it was, you shortly thereafter discovered the entire party was nowhere near optimized enough for the following dungeon crawl. Sadly, my own attempt at the Grinder has been indefinitely stalled due to DM disappearance.:smallfrown: It was interesting while it lasted, but I doubt another DM could easily duplicate quite that degree of insane and creative yet still survivable (for the prepared*) danger.:smallsigh:

*By which I mean really, truly, ridiculously prepared, even for their level (18) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81794). Take particular note of the various protections against potential environmental hazards.

[Behold_the_Void]

I actually made a base class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78920) to do stuff like this awhile back because I, too, find such concepts to be hilarious and awesome.

[RebelRogue]

Incidentally, "The Grappling Pixie" sounds like a great name for a bar.
I thought exactly the same thing when I read the thread name :smallbiggrin: I'm so gonna use that in an actual game!

[kjones]

Not grappling, but I made a pixie warblade once. If you focus on Setting Sun, you can be a pixie hurling the big folk around.

In fact, in that game, he did hurl the minotaur into a wall...

Except warblades don't have access to Setting Sun as a discipline... perhaps you meant Swordsage?

[Devils_Advocate]

Regarding how absurd a feat a high-level character ought to be able to perform, I would like to quote from elsewhere (http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-845366#post12393614):

I mean, just look at skill totals at 9th level and above. You're doing some crazy :censored: on a regular basis, and most of the time you're not even thinking twice about it.This deserves an illustration, I think.

9th level Bard. He has 12 ranks of Perform, started with 16 Cha and increased it twice to 18 (+4). He also has a masterwork instrument (+2) and a Circlet of Persuasion (+3). His Perform modifier is now 12+4+2+3=+21. This means that, by taking ten, he nails a 31 every time. According to the PHB, this means that by playing on street corners, he will eventually attract the attention of extraplanar beings. Gimble will be sitting around drinking and playing his lute when a genie bamfs in and asks the gnome to perform at his kid's Bar Mitzvah.

9th level Rogue. He has 12 ranks of Balance, started with 16 Dex and boosted it twice to 18 (+4). He gets a +2 synergy bonus from Tumble ranks, for a total modifier of 12+4+2=+18. Taking 10, he will, every time, be able to move at full speed across a one inch wide marble-covered beam. (18+10-5=23 for the check, 20+2(scree) =22 for the DC.)

9th level Barbarian. 12 ranks of Climb, now has 18 (+4) Strength, for a final modifier of 12+4=+16. Taking 10, he gets a 26. He can now climb most mountains while raining, moving 40 feet every 6 seconds. (Check is 26-5=21 for accelerated climbing, DC is 15+5=20 for climbing a rough natural rock surface that's slippery.)

9th level Swashbuckler. 12 ranks of Jump, 12 (+1) Strength, +2 synergy from Tumble. His modifier is 12+1+2=+15. Taking 10 gets him a 25. The female world record for the long jump is (7.52 meters)*(3.28 feet/meter) = 24.7 feet. This character beats that every time he wants to. The men's record is 8.95*3.28= 29.3 feet, which his character could swing pretty easily if he so desired. When the character rolls instead of taking 10, he can hit as much as 35 feet, blowing past the world record by two yards.

9th level Beguiler. 12 ranks in Disguise, 14 (+2) Charisma, with a disguise kit (+2). Total modifier is +16, taking 10 gets him a 26. He can disguise himself as a woman's human husband (+10 for intimate familiarity) as long as she has a Spot modifier of 6 or less.
Because it's fun to pick on Fighters, let's say this woman is Fighter. We'll generously give her a Wisdom of 14 (+2), which means she needs 4.5 ranks to beat the spread and win the check with a 26.5 (again assuming taking 10). Since spot is cross-class, the soonest she could get that many is at 6th level.

May the gods help you if this guy uses Disguise Self to boost his check by another 10. Or if he's a Bard, kicking his Charisma up another couple notches.9th level Monk. 12 ranks in sense motive, 16 (+3) Wisdom. Final modifier is 12+3=+15. Taking 10, he can instantly tell whether a person is under the effects of Charm Person or not, every time. (DC 25) And that isn't "I've a sneaking suspicion that something is wrong here" so much as it's "Hi, my name is Benedict Thelonious. Also, you're charmed."

9th level Bard again. 12 "ranks" in Speak Language nets him 12 languages, because Bards are awesome like that. There are only 20 of the things listed in the PHB, one of them is Druidic, and he starts with a few because of race and intelligence. He learns this from hanging out in bars, and in addition to everything else he can do. I don't think there are many people in the world that can boast that kind of repertoire, and finding one in his mid-20s that's also a competent in battle, magic (which we can approximate to some degree with science or technology), and whatever this guy is burning his other 5+Int skill points on is fairly definitely impossible.

9th level Ranger goes tracking. 12 ranks in Survival, 14 (+2) Wisdom, +4 from Search and Know: Nature synergy, and +2 from some manner of tracking kit. Modifier is 12+2+4+2= +20, which means he takes 10 to get a 30. To match this, the DC is going to look like this: 4+5+1+20. That comes from tracking a single Toad (+4 DC for being Diminutive) that is covering his tracks (+5) after an hour of rainfall (+1) over bare rock (20).

By 9th level, you're pretty much past the point of being able to use "It's not realistic!" as any sort of relevant complaint in a D&D environment. Oh, and on a similar note, I reference the Proud Nails (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dd/20060120a) article on the Wizards D&D page which notes that olympic archers are 7th level Rangers, the weightlifters hit 23-24 strength tops, and that a 6th level Monk with Dash can set a marathon record. (Alternatively, he could be 9th level or take the Run feat and absolutely blow it away.) Anything past that is, pretty much by definition, superhuman.
Basically, high-level D&D characters get to reliably accomplish things that are ridiculously difficult for normal humans, because high-level D&D characters are superhuman (http://www.thealexandrian.net/creations/misc/d&d-calibrating.html). That's a feature, not a bug. Check the spell description of legend lore, even: "As a rule of thumb, characters who are 11th level and higher are “legendary,” as are the sorts of creatures they contend with, the major magic items they wield, and the places where they perform their key deeds." We're already talking about stuff so fantastic that when you hear about it, you seriously suspect that the person telling you this is making it all up. And Legendary is only halfway to Epic. I'd say that an Epic-level character should be able to conquer Earth within about a week (unless opposed by someone else not from Earth).

Being able to grapple someone two size categories larger than you should seriously not even be all that impressive to your fellow 16th-level characters. It'll impress the peasants, sure, but you probably don't need any favors from them.

Dungeons & Dragons portrays a world where extraordinary people exist and do astounding things. They accomplish superheroic deeds. If you want a game where that level of power is a distant, untouchable thing, possessed by giants and dragons and archmagi and heroes of legend but not the protagonists, then play at a low level or use a different system than d20. Because getting high-level d20 characters down to a realistic power level requires so many house rules in so many places that they basically turn it into a different system anyway, and one that probably still won't do realism well. If you want realism, use a system that tries to be reasonably realistic to start with, like GURPS.

[Tacoma]

I think it takes a pretty super(human?) Toad to cover its tracks. I'd be like,

screw this, I'm just a Toad

*hop hop hop*

So you'd miss out on a +5 DC to track a standard Toad.




An Epic Ranger can track a fly while he's flying at full speed a hundred yards over bare ground in a monsoon six weeks after it landed on a clover below.

He will know which clover. And he will know the sex of the fly.

[NPCMook]

I actually enjoyed playing the odd ball character, looking through various Mongoose Publishing splat books I found a Fairy with a +3 LA, talked with my DM about it and he said it was okay to use stuff from these books, so I built a Fairy who could wield Medium sized weapons(Fairies were Tiny) and well needless to say Comedy ensued.