Eve-online

[Grumbolt]

I know its not fantasy based, but does anyone here play Eve-online?

[Erloas]

I played it for a while in I think late '05 and again in mid '06. It was a game I really wanted to like but just couldn't get past, well basically the steep death penalty that completely dominated how the game was played.

I know the game stops working in a lot of ways if the death penalty was changed much, so I just accepted it as a game I could never really enjoy so I moved on. It is however the only game I played for a while, quit, and then came back to. Every other game once I've leave I leave for good.

[Grumbolt]

I started back in 2006, with a proper clone death is annoying but nothing painful. You just have to get a new clone before you die again.

[Erloas]

In terms of skill point loss death doesn't mean anything, but in terms of getting ships and equipement and the isk for them it becomes a big problem. Sure you can PvE all the time with little isk issue, but when you try to PvP things can add up quickly. Even in frigates where the cost itself is minimal, if you are using basic equipement, the logistics of getting the equipement if you are in 0.0 space and not flying the exact same ship and setup as everyone else can be very time consuming and a pain.

The t2 frigates were somewhat expensive and the t2 cruisers were just insane in terms of cost and couldn't be viably used in PvP unless you had a lot of time to spend farming isk.
The other main issue with the death penalty is that it actively discouraged people from taking part in PvP, which seems counter-productive for a PvP based game. No one would even stay around to start a fight if there wasn't a reasonably high chance of winning, which usually meant PvP revolved around either you or someone else being stuck in a station for extended periods of time and you might be lucky to find a couple fights in hours of in-game time looking for one.

Of course most of that is mostly irrelivent if you are a mission runner or an empire systems miner, but in those cases you are really only playing half the game.

[HyperInferno]

The penalty of death in my opinion is what makes the game great. When I used to play WoW, I felt there was little point to the pvp, since it was like "oh noes, I have slightly inconveinced you". Whereas in EVE, its like "haha, that nice pretty ship you dumped t2 fits and fancy rigs on just went pop!". I also love the fact that you can loot the opponents wreck, giving you another reason to try and kill that juicy looking hauler.

And as for the station thing, in the 0.0 wars, there are times when the enemy HAS to come out, like if a POS is being attacked, or if a major supply route is blocked off. Or maybe you make it seem like the enemy can win, but you secretly have a new strategy, reinforcements, or a hot-drop standing by. Just last week I was part of a 248 person fleet, fighting a 190 man fleet. (although the fleet number seem off, the enemy fleet had capital support, including two titans, where as we did not).

[Brother Oni]

It's not a game for everybody.

A high death penalty, slow character development, an emphasis on PVP throughout the whole game (not just shooting people but in manufacturing and selling items too), little documentation and a near vertical learning curve sometimes, means that there little to no instant gratification in the game for people with short attention spans.

While Erloas raised some valid points about the PVP aspect, there has been a number of changes to make PVP easier to find fights and he's missed one of the most important aspects about PVP in EVE - the adrenaline rush. Since you're actually risking something in EVE every time you fight, it can trigger an adrenaline rush that some people have likened to going into actual combat.

Another important point about EVE is that it has a very cut-throat playing style. Provided you don't scam on transactions involving real money (character transfers and anything involving Game Time Cards), the GMs don't stop anything that isn't an actual exploit. There are stories of people working themselves into a position of trust in corporations (EVE version of guilds), then stealing all the corp assets and transferring it to other characters - the most famous corp theft stole the equivalent of 16500 USD in assets (the Guiding Hand Social Club scam (http://eve.klaki.net/heist/)).

This all adds to a general feeling of paranoia and distrust that runs very high in EVE - you are very unlikely to get pick-up gangs (and until recently was a very easy way to get yourself killed).

Personally, I love the game as your behaviour and actions ingame all form to make your reputation, which cannot be bought or sold.

[Tengu_temp]

The penalty of death in my opinion is what makes the game great. When I used to play WoW, I felt there was little point to the pvp, since it was like "oh noes, I have slightly inconveinced you". Whereas in EVE, its like "haha, that nice pretty ship you dumped t2 fits and fancy rigs on just went pop!". I also love the fact that you can loot the opponents wreck, giving you another reason to try and kill that juicy looking hauler.


In other words, what makes EVE great is the huge griefing potential? One more reason for me to stay in WoW.

I played a trial of EVE. PvE in this game is boring and feels like work, even by MMO standards, and PvP is, as I mentioned, mostly griefing. Except that they call it "pirating" and pretend that it's a good thing.

[Triaxx]

*snort* There is no reason to stay in WoW.

Not to mention the story of you know, that guy.

[HyperInferno]

In other words, what makes EVE great is the huge griefing potential? One more reason for me to stay in WoW.

I played a trial of EVE. PvE in this game is boring and feels like work, even by MMO standards, and PvP is, as I mentioned, mostly griefing. Except that they call it "pirating" and pretend that it's a good thing.

That right there, is one of the biggest flaws of eve in my opinion. I run a small corporation with one of my alts, the purpose of which, is to earn money for my main, and to train noobs. You simply can't experience the game in 2 weeks. Hell, I've been playing for 2 years and I am JUST NOW getting into some stuff I skipped over (production and trade mostly, my main is a pvper). As for the griefing, first off.....
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/griefing.jpg

Second, the 0.0 combat is more like actual combat. You have fleets of 200+ ships, with elaborate command structures (In fleets of around 50 I usually take the role of Fleet Commander, where as in a 200+ fleet I am a secondary Support Commander and tertiary target caller). These fights usually occur at a POS (Player Owned Structure), where one side is attempting to destroy the control tower, while the other side is using thier fleet and the control tower's turret batteries (usually artilery cannons due to thier high optimal range). The fight might start with a titan jumping in first and unleashing its Doomsday Device, or maybe just a ****ton of battleships blasting their way through whatever blockade the enemy has set up on the entry gates.

[Tengu_temp]

http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/griefing.jpg


http://www.potterpuppetpals.com/pppstore/fun/voldy.jpg
"Oh, yes I can."

Because it might not be griefing by EVE standards, but it is griefing by my standards. I play games to have fun, not to constantly worry that I might get jumped by someone much more powerful who will make hours of my effort go for naught, just because he's an ass who enjoys destroying others' fun. Desu.

[RPGuru1331]

http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/griefing.jpg

Yes. Just because the game freely allows griefing doesn't make it less of a grief.

[The Evil Thing]

This is a timely thread since we've just had a new expansion pack released. Among the list of improvements are performance upgrades allowing ridiculous fleet battles and a new source of fun for the older players: certificates.


I play games to have fun, not to constantly worry that I might get jumped by someone much more powerful who will make hours of my effort go for naught, just because he's an ass who enjoys destroying others' fun. Desu.
So does that mean I can destroy your hours of work if I perceive a profit in it for me? That sounds like... piracy.


There are stories of people working themselves into a position of trust in corporations (EVE version of guilds), then stealing all the corp assets and transferring it to other characters - the most famous corp theft stole the equivalent of 16500 USD in assets (the Guiding Hand Social Club scam (http://eve.klaki.net/heist/)).
That's been topped by the Eve Intergalactic Bank. Now that was a haul. If memory serves it was some obscene number like 900bn ISK that got stolen. Sheer artwork.


Yes. Just because the game freely allows griefing doesn't make it less of a grief.
No. Griefing by Eve's standards is something the majority of the player base condemns but have no real solution to prevent. That doesn't stop them from creating endless threads in the forums offering solutions.

Eve players have a saying: "You can't participate in PvP until you consent to do so. You'll find the consent button on the station interface, it's called 'Undock'."


Every time a thread about this game is created we get the same mouth artists insisting that there is no fun to be had in it, citing griefing and that the risk of loss after hours of work is simply too much to stomach. Evidently their opinion is of the majority, which explains why places like casinos and other gambling establishments - where simple bad luck can set you back both time and moneywise - are so devastatingly unpopular.

I'll say this again: griefing is rare. It's far more likely that you were a victim of piracy. If you're considering trying the game out please, please, please listen to the people who actually play the game rather than those who tried it for a week and then left in a huff when they got their ship which they spent all their money on (who the heck does that anyway?) blown up.

[Inhuman Bot]

My veiws on eve are fairly close to yahtzee's on this one.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/208-Eve-Online

[The Evil Thing]

It's his own fault for playing the game in exactly the opposite way it's meant to be played.

[Inhuman Bot]

How is eve "meant to be played" then?

Drunkenly?

because from what I've seen of eve, it's impossable to have any fun, as fun is off a few miles away, behind a hill or something.

[RPGuru1331]

No. Griefing by Eve's standards is something the majority of the player base condemns but have no real solution to prevent. That doesn't stop them from creating endless threads in the forums offering solutions.
How is that disagreeing with my saying "Permission to Grief as saying you can't grief?"


Eve players have a saying: "You can't participate in PvP until you consent to do so. You'll find the consent button on the station interface, it's called 'Undock'."
We called it leaving hte newbie zone in DAoC, but the concept is the same.


Every time a thread about this game is created we get the same mouth artists insisting that there is no fun to be had in it, citing griefing and that the risk of loss after hours of work is simply too much to stomach.
I didn't say any of that. Only argued against the nonsense of "It's not griefing if the rules allow it."


Evidently their opinion is of the majority, which explains why places like casinos and other gambling establishments - where simple bad luck can set you back both time and moneywise - are so devastatingly unpopular.
It is the Majority. EVE lost big. So did DAoC. It's not just WoW; Even EQ and FFXI stomped EVE into the dust, so it's not just good marketting.

Also, as to casinos? Those are just as much fueled by the love of 'easy money' as anything. The gamblers who gamble strictly for the adrenaline rush... well that'd be a hard thing to survey.


I'll say this again: griefing is rare. It's far more likely that you were a victim of piracy. If you're considering trying the game out please, please, please listen to the people who actually play the game rather than those who tried it for a week and then left in a huff when they got their ship which they spent all their money on (who the heck does that anyway?) blown up.
I actually like EVE. I simply won't play MMOs until I stop working the good times to play in, and even then, I prefered other games over EVE.

[Mr. Mud]

Okay, this sounds like a game I can make a lot of puns on, and doesn't sound that bad either. Plus I need SOMETHING to take up my spare time for the next weekish before . Anyone wanna link me to a review/demo/actual game? ("Mud, why don't you just Google it?" In the midst of a go-a-month-without-Google bet. someone help me!)

[Inhuman Bot]

riiiiiighhttt.... if your lazy, say so :smalltongue:
also, is the demo without google, or search engines? if the former, use one like yahoo or hell.

Really, though, here you are.
http://www.gamershell.com/download_6948.shtml

I haven't used this, though, so be careful.

[Mr. Mud]

riiiiiighhttt.... if your lazy, say so :smalltongue:
also, is the demo without google, or search engines? if the former, use one like yahoo or hell.

Really, though, here you are.
http://www.gamershell.com/download_6948.shtml

I haven't used this, though, so be careful.

No no, I'm openly lazy, but the "Ctrl+Crtl" thing on vista to pull up a Google search bar is that easy. As for the bet: No search engines, and its not really a bet, but a competition, hopefully one that I'll win.

OH, and thanks for link :smallbiggrin:.

[Grey Paladin]

The deeper the black, the brighter the white.

Have you considered the fact that some people enjoy the game *because* succeeding is difficult? because the world is downright hostile? because they had to suffer for victory?

I am tired of people bashing games for what they were *designed* to perform and who they were designed to appeal to- if you are not the target audience do not call the game bad unless it actually is when compared to others with the same purpose and philosophy- scissors are less suited to cutting people in half than claymores, but what would you prefer to cut paper with?

[The Evil Thing]

I didn't say any of that. Only argued against the nonsense of "It's not griefing if the rules allow it."
That wasn't aimed at you at all. But if you look past at the previous Eve-dedicated threads or simply MMOG threads where Eve comes up you can be sure there is a disproportionately loud number of people telling everyone to stay away. :smallsigh: Sorry if I gave you the wrong impression but it's a little frustrating - other MMOGs don't get nearly as much er... grief. :smalltongue:

[doliest]

*Pulls out john solomon shirt, foamy jacket, yahtzee pants, and gets up on his soapbox* My only expirence with eve is a short play a month or two ago and let me say, it is without exception the most BORING game I have ever played. PvE combat is dull and uninteresting, most of the skills sound like things that shouldn't ever be part of a game that isn't FATAL, and character creation was like a more uninspired version of DnD, but let me get to my chief gripe; EVE is, as yahtzee put it, a job you have to pay people for. Working and mining minerals shouldn't be a game, espicially an MMO. So yeah I stopped after a day or so and decided that a game where I need insurance wasn't the game for me, or as I thought, anyone.

[HyperInferno]

How is that disagreeing with my saying "Permission to Grief as saying you can't grief?"


We called it leaving hte newbie zone in DAoC, but the concept is the same.


I didn't say any of that. Only argued against the nonsense of "It's not griefing if the rules allow it."


It is the Majority. EVE lost big. So did DAoC. It's not just WoW; Even EQ and FFXI stomped EVE into the dust, so it's not just good marketting.

Also, as to casinos? Those are just as much fueled by the love of 'easy money' as anything. The gamblers who gamble strictly for the adrenaline rush... well that'd be a hard thing to survey.


I actually like EVE. I simply won't play MMOs until I stop working the good times to play in, and even then, I prefered other games over EVE.

To the first part, 2nd part, and 3rd part. The official eve definition of griefing, is killing someone over and over again for fun rather than profit. This is actually fairly uncommon. For the most part, pirates pick their targets carefully, hopeing that little frigate is actually carrying a bpo. If they pick the wrong target, it might turn out to be bait set up by a 30 man fleet next door. The pirates want to profit. And as for the "noob areas", its called highsec space, its mostly safe, not as profitable as 0.0, but alot safer. Concorde will kill anyone who attacks someone in highsec without provocation. No exceptions, there is no legal way to escape concorde.

To the 4th. Yeah sure, eve may not be as big as wow. But if you look at the trends, they are not "losing". They are still steadily gaining players, and they still have the most powerful server in the gaming industry (also on the Top 100 supercomputers list). They have up to 40k players on a SINGLE server.

Casinos is a perfect analogy. Lowsec is risky, 0.0 can be even riskier. But, both have massive profit opportunities. That one lowsec jump might save you 20 jumps to go around it, but it might also cost you your ship. That war going on in that 0.0 border system might offer some really nice profit margins for trade, as long as you dont get caught in the crossfire.

And to other responses. Yes eve is horribly slow at first. Even later on, it can be a bit slow compared to those "instant gratification" games. But when you get up there, and you are part of a 1600 person alliance. You can really get into it. There are few things that beat out the feeling of watching an enemy ship explode, in the midst of a 250 vs 250 ship fleet battle.

[HyperInferno]

The deeper the black, the brighter the white.

Have you considered the fact that some people enjoy the game *because* succeeding is difficult? because the world is downright hostile? because they had to suffer for victory?

I am tired of people bashing games for what they were *designed* to perform and who they were designed to appeal to- if you are not the target audience do not call the game bad unless it actually is when compared to others with the same purpose and philosophy- scissors are less suited to cutting people in half than claymores, but what would you prefer to cut paper with?

And btw, this man speaks truth.

[The Minx]

The whole point of EVE is to be ambitious, to raid, to plot and to backstab. Complaining about griefing in EVE is like entering a game of poker and complaining about people trying their best to win your chips while wearing deadpan expressions on their faces. Or possibly entering a game of Quake Arena and then complaining when people are destroying the good spirit of the game by being too agressive and uncooperative.

In short, "griefing" is a term coined by people who should be playing something else instead. :smalltongue:

[Tengu_temp]

In other words, EVE is for MMOs what Paranoia is for pencil'n'paper RPGs. The difference is that Paranoia players don't say stuff like "Paranoia is the best and most mature RPG evar, all other RPGs are for kids who can't stand the competition!" all the time, and don't recommend Paranoia to people who are looking for traditional RPGs.



In short, "griefing" is a term coined by people who should be playing something else instead. :smalltongue:

And guess what? They are. Do you think all people who don't like EVE here play it regardless of that, or something?

[The Minx]

And guess what? They are. Do you think all people who don't like EVE here play it regardless of that, or something?

No, of course not. I think they are criticizing the play style in a way which misses the point of the game.

You can legitimately say that such and such a game is not for you, but to use a pejorative like "griefing" about EVE players is no more appropriate than croquet players accusing rugby players of being "too aggressive".

[RPGuru1331]

In short, "griefing" is a term coined by people who should be playing something else instead. :smalltongue:


The official eve definition of griefing, is killing someone over and over again for fun rather than profit.
Funny, I was using the same definition your game does, apparently

[Tirian]

Complaining about griefing in EVE is like entering a game of poker and complaining about people trying their best to win your chips while wearing deadpan expressions on their faces.

It's more like entering a poker room where you are playing five card stud but everyone else is being dealt nine cards and you're playing with a marked deck that everyone else knows how to read. And this isn't "cheating" because the rules of the poker club allow full members to receive nine cards but not guests.

And then they complain when people single them out as a place where you wouldn't want to be a guest.

[The Minx]

Funny, I was using the same definition your game does, apparently

Obviously, my post was in the context of the complaints presented here.


It's more like entering a poker room where you are playing five card stud but everyone else is being dealt nine cards and you're playing with a marked deck that everyone else knows how to read. And this isn't "cheating" because the rules of the poker club allow full members to receive nine cards but not guests.

And then they complain when people single them out as a place where you wouldn't want to be a guest.

LOL whut? :smallconfused:

[HyperInferno]

I never said it was the best designed. Honestly, if you are just trying to make money, its probably a pretty bad model to go off of. Highly experimental advancement system. Really steep learning curve. And a tutorial that takes 3 hours. But, for those people that enjoy the complexity and the difficulty, it's awesome.

[HyperInferno]

And on the note placed above, can we get off this "EVE vs everything else". Honestly, I think eve is vastly different from other mmo's, almost enough to make it its own genre. Note I said DIFFERENT, not BETTER. I think comparing EVE to WoW is like comparing Halo to Harvest Moon, it really doesn't work. And I have nothing but praise for WoW's development and gameplay, even though it doesn't appeal to me. And as for the other two, I have to admit, as much as I hate Microsuck, Halo is fun from time to time, and Harvest moon is the most addicting game on the planet, and to this day I don't know why.

[Maxymiuk]

Ok, so I told myself I'd stay away from this, but...



I'll say this again: griefing is rare. It's far more likely that you were a victim of piracy. If you're considering trying the game out please, please, please listen to the people who actually play the game rather than those who tried it for a week and then left in a huff when they got their ship which they spent all their money on (who the heck does that anyway?) blown up.


I've joined EVE sometime in mid-2006 - just after the expansion pack that included the Titans, if you need a better estimate.

Let's skip the part where I was still learning the game - I've somehow jumped the curve, getting through the early months with losing only one frigate by going woefully unprepared into the Worlds Collide mission (veterans know what I'm talking about, non-players - suffice to say that that mission is the bane of newbs). Soon enough I was flying a destroyer (i.e. glorified frigate) in level 2 missions and was really surprised when someone told me that I was kinda supposed to be using a cruiser for those. And by the time I did get a cruiser, I was already heading into level 3's, which quickly got me enough money for a battlecruiser that I was supposed to be using in those.

I'm not trying to come off as some kind of godly player here, because I wasn't - I just want to point out that I quickly "got" the game, without being put off by its difficulty curve.

3 months in, I had to take a break from the game, due to unforseen RL events, such as changing continents I lived on. I came back to it 4 months later and picked it up right where I left it. The missions were still the same, there was a new expansion in the works, the newb corp channel was still... less than intelligent.

I eventually joined a player corporation - one that operated in lowsec.

Something I should add - up until then I had exactly one experience with lowsec - some dead-end 0.4 system in Caldari space that a mission took me into when I was still flying a destroyer. I've completed the objective and was on my way back to the gate - for newer players: that was back before the "warp to 0" option - and with 10km to go I got targetted by a really shiny-looking, really fast frigate - I later figured out it was an interceptor.

What I did back then was promptly panic. I pointed myself towards the nearest stellar body and hit the warp drive - from later research I figured out that I jumped out moments before the interceptor could engage its warp jammer.
Those who say good things about EVE's adrenaline rush: they're right. The following 15 minutes of playing cat and mouse through the system, me warping away just as the interceptor was arriving, trying to choose confusing vectors containing multiple planets, moons, asteroid belts, anything that could gain me a reprieve, finally managing to jump into the gate's vicinity to drop a... I think they were called safepoints? (newer/non-players - safepoints were waypoints dropped 15km behind the warpgate, so that when you warped to them from a certain vector, you ended up right on top of the gate, allowing for an instant gate jump. They were the primary reason for introducing the "warp to 0" option, as the hundreds of thousands of player waypoints were clogging up the servers), then finding a good vector to jump to it, making it to the gate just in time... I was grinning like a madman for the rest of the day.

Anyway, here I was heading into deep lowsec for the second time ever. I did the smart things - I asked what the best route was, I asked my new corpmates whether the way was clear, and as I was fairly well-off by then I purchased a second battlecruiser that I've outfitted with stock equipment, leaving my "pimped out" ride in empire space. Then I set off.

Here's something I've noticed about lowsec: the systems look the same, but they feel different. Even if you're part of a fleet, there's still this constant underlying tension, this sense of dread - you're always waiting for the local chatbox to update, showing new, unfamiliar contacts in the system, for the scout that just went through the gate to say "got five pirates waiting here" instead of "all clear".

That time around I've made it through without incident. The place I was heading into were a dead end - three systems forming a triangle with one gate leading out, home to a small corporate alliance that managed to hold it against pirates. I had to be introduced, of course - unfamiliar faces usually mean spies scouting out the systems, trying to decide whether it's worth starting a war for them. From there, things went relatively smoothly. I gradually transferred over some more equipment, a couple blueprints to make my own missles - it's definitely the cheaper option as opposed to buying them, especially since I could get the raw materials for production from recycling loot I got in PvE.

At this point I still wasn't ready for anything significant; most people in the loop - yeah, now I remember, we called that little corner of space "the loop" - were veterans with 2-4 years of experience, so I was way out of my league when it came to guard duty, scouting the routes back into highsec, etc. So I did a bit of trading, but mostly I hunted rats - "rats" being the lingo for NPC pirates - to earn the ISK for a battleship and start on the lvl 4 missions.

In the time I finally earned enough, a few significant things have happened. The corp I've joined has died off and a couple of the people I've met there have decided to form a new one. I've joined them, thus becoming the co-founder and co-CEO. I've been held up by a barely literate pirate who demanded 10M ISK on pain of pain (I paid), the new expansion came out, bringing with it new content, such as salvaging, and new missions, and my brother joined EVE (more on him later). Our small corp remained in the loop thanks to our head CEO's networking skills (his RL skills, that is), and I was getting heartily sick of killing rats.

So I got my new, shiny battleship, flew it into a level 4 mission, and found out that, for the first time in experience with EVE I was severely out of my league when it came to PvE. I found out the hard way, in fact, by losing the battleship to a couple NPC interceptors with warp jammers, followed by a fleet of battleships.

I won't lie, I did consider quitting the game at that point. Buying and outfitting that ship was a significant investment due to the exponential nature of the game's prices. A frigate may cost 200-500K to buy and equip, a cruiser 10-20M, a battlecruiser 70-100M, while a battleship means 200M or more, and it only gets worse from there.

But no, I grit my teeth and went on. I could make back the money. In the meantime I'd train up the skills I'd need to fly a battleship successfully. I was sick of mission running anyway. It was time to try other things. So I did, and a week later I very, very nearly quit the game.

Our corp needed money. We were all repulsed by the tedium that is mining, so we decided to go rat hunting in 0.0. It was a good source of income - in fact earlier that week 3 corpmates already went there and brought back a haul worth well over 100M, and that was with one of them flying the hauler to collect loot. So think how much more we'd make in the same time if it'd be the four of us going in.

To play it extra safe, we were heading into empty space - systems with no stations in them - hells, they didn't even have names other than a string of numbers and letters. no reason for pirates to hang around there, since there's no traffic to loot.

It just so happened that I was the designated heavy for the operation, flying my battlecruiser. My pimped out one, as I sold the stock to cover the costs of the battleship. On reflection, I was asking for it.

Somewhere along the way to our destination we got pegged by a bunch of griefers. The first we knew of it was when a system empty other than for the four of us, suddenly gained twelve new visitors.
I don't blame my corpmates - situations like that, it's every man for himself. The support had time to warp away, the hauler had a cloaking device. I got hit with a warp scrambler and then the whole merry band piled in on top of me.

Nearly took down one of them too.

List of losses: 100M worth of ship+equipment and full set of lvl 4 implants (I didn't have a jump clone yet).

I still didn't quit. I almost did, but I didn't. Could've been worse, after all. Didn't lose any skills, after all. Remembered to insure my ship, after all - the payout was just enough to buy a battlecruiser, and thanks to my packrat nature I had a store of replacement gear and implants "just in case". My corpmates offered to refund me at least part of my losses, but I politely declined, being too damn proud to owe anything to anyone.

I did start logging on less frequently, though.

I went back to mission running, but by then I knew them all by heart. Warp here, warp there, kill that guy first, what the hell is up with that gothic cathedral floating there.

I was looking for something different to do. PvP was out of the question - not when my account was down to less than 10M. Any serious research or large-scale production was out of the question for the next few months - the time I'd need to develop my virtually nonexistent skills in those disciplines. So I took up trading.

My brother is the economist in the family, but I still have a knack for noticing certain patterns. The one I've noticed very early on was that people are LAZY. They might get a much better deal 5 systems away, but if the item they want is right here on the station, chances are they'll go for the latter. Hells, if it was the difference between making a 1-minute trip to another station in the same system and buying on the spot, people would choose the latter. I could exploit that.

Some, if not most of EVE players know Jita, the central system of Caldari space, and the semi-official trade center of empire space, otherwise known as Lag City thanks to the 700+ people that you can find there at any given time. Somewhat fewer people know that this is so because of Jita's status as the trade center of empire space. What even less people know is that because of its status as trade center of empire space, you can buy most things there at greatly reduced prices - we're talking 20-40% here - compared to anywhere else. What no one knows is what came first in this chicken-egg scenario, but either way Jita made an excellent place to pick up a bunch of 'Limos' Heavy Missle Launchers at (my memory gets rusty here, so forgive me if I'm off) 800K-1M per unit, travel to my little base of operations in a popular system for lvl 3 missions (explanation for non-players: level 3 missions are for battlecruisers. Caldari battlecruisers use heavy missle launchers. Most Caldari players use Caldari ships. 'Limos' launchers are of the "pricier than stock, but just inexpensive enough and just better enough to be the variant of choice" variety) and sell them for 1.2-1.4M.

Some of you may question my purchasing power, given my aforementioned desperate lack of funds. And you'd be right to do so, except that I wasn't using my own money for the project. Instead, I was the corp's acting trader, with 200M ISK granted to me as seed money to build into a fortune.

I used the corp trading account we've set up to handle corp transactions, and meanwhile I was using my own funds to do a bit of trading on my own. I've discovered that the system I was operating out of had a dearth of shuttles. I've discovered it when trying to purchase one, in fact.

A word on shuttles: tiny, weak, and unarmed, but very, very fast ships. Vehicle of choice for people who need to get somewhere in empire space quickly.

Ok then, I could deal in shuttles. Of course, they were still spaceships, and there were very few ships with enough cargo space to carry even one. Besides, profit margins for resale were ridiculously low, given the trouble it'd take to move the damned things around. No, if I wanted to sell them, I had to produce them.

The blueprint was cheap enough. And I had a vast store of raw materials needed for manufacture - I've been regularly recycling low-value PvE loot back when I was still running missions. Soon I was churning out shuttles by the dozen, and I was still barely keeping up with the demand. Sure, they went for only 9K each but, given that I didn't need to buy the materials, even after manufacture costs I still made about 7K on each unit sold. And those little sums have a habit of adding up.

After a couple of months I nearly doubled the money the corp gave me, and had enough of my own assets to start experimenting with the local market, looking for new products I could start selling. I lost ground along the way, of course - there's lots of people keeping a close eye on the market, and as soon as my little operation sprang up (hint: if you want to take up market trading in EVE, if it's a semi-specialized market like, say, missle launchers, with the number of untis available for sale at any given time being in the hundreds, rather hundreds of thousands, don't lump a large number of units into a single sale order - it's immediately noticeable. Set up 10-15 smaller orders with varied prices instead) I've had competition. Profit margins went down, but I was the more persistent, apparently, and eventually I was looking at a local monopoly.

Then came the day when I've turned on the computer and spent five minutes looking at the login screen, going over what I'd need to do today, hauling runs to make, sale orders to set up, missions to play as my raw material stocks were running low again... and underneath it all, the growing thought "Not the f***ing grind again!"

I've cancelled my subscription. That was sometime this February.

Abrupt ending? Impulsive, almost.

It wasn't a game anymore. It was work. Work to get back to where I was, work to keep track of what I was doing anymore, work to hit the F1 through F6 keys to shoot at the damned rats again.



And presenting Exhibit B, my younger brother.

As already mentioned, he joined EVE right after the expantion that introduced salvaging (Red Moon, I think?). With some kind of unerring sense for profit, he went right for the salvaging techs and started collecting. At the time, this aspect of the game was still very much a frontier - the market on salvage parts hasn't stabilized yet, and prices were through the roof as everyone rushed to equip their ships with the latest in salvage gear. There was big money to be made. My brother made big money.

Within a month of starting, he already had 700M ISK. The salvage market was stabilizing, profit margins were going down rapidly, since everyone was doing it. He decided it's time to move on.

He went straight for the trade chat channels. That's where the real money is - the channels draw serious people with serious money - T2 gear and ships, uniques from 0.0 complexes, the works.

It's been somewhat over a year since he started now - as much as I've spent with the game. He has over 20 bilion ISK in liquid assets, and at least 10 more in transactions, in items, and in his private research POS. He owns two accounts for which he pays with Game Time Cards - essentially, he pays his monthly fees with in-game money - the current price is 300M ISK for 30 days of gameplay, I believe. He PvP's actively, that is, when he's not sitting there for hours on end, keeping an eye on the trade channels for an opportunity.

I think he might even be having fun.




I'm not going to tell you "play the game" or "don't play the game." Here's my experience with it: take it as you will.

[Lord Zentei]

The main beef I have with Eve-online and MMORPGs in general is the ungodly amount of time taken in basic grinding action. For instance, many such games require you to level endlessly before the "real" game even begins, which is pretty frustrating.

Eve manages to eliminate the leveling crap that plagues so many other MMOs, and low level players can start becoming useful right off the bat. This is because small ships are very difficult to target with large guns that are found on the capital ships, so they can swarm their quarry Star Wars style, otherwise small ships fight small ships and large ships fight large ones and every one in the fleet has some role to play (at least potentially). The problem is that if leveling grind is gone, profit grind is not, and you need to keep making money in order to remain competitive.

I prefer games where you can just enter and start actually playing (and an actual story helps too). Hence my preference for such games as Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights and so on. Grind is just not me... "several months of pointless repetitive work? Ho hum". Somehow, I'd rather be making real money in a real job then *.


*) Yes I know that some people make money farming, but honestly it doesn't seem the kind of career move I'd be proud of, if you know what I mean. :smallwink:

[Grumbolt]

Well I was just curious if anyone played. I like the game (even though I got podded today and lost a full set of lvl 4 implants). Feel free to look me up as Bromboor! No more podding though please :smallsmile:

[The Minx]

The main beef I have with Eve-online and MMORPGs in general is the ungodly amount of time taken in basic grinding action.

Hey, you showed up.


Eve ....... . The problem is that if leveling grind is gone, profit grind is not, and you need to keep making money in order to remain competitive.

I admit that I kind of enjoy the routine. At least I still do, though perhaps it is not forever. :smallsmile:

[RPGuru1331]

And on the note placed above, can we get off this "EVE vs everything else". Honestly, I think eve is vastly different from other mmo's,

Those of us who played UO are laughing like hell right now.

[The Evil Thing]

Autobiography
That was very interesting, thanks for sharing with us.

Incidentally, I'm pretty sure salvaging was introduced in Revelations... or was it the one before? :smallconfused:

Aaaaargh!! CCP and their biannual expansion packs! :smallbiggrin:

[Brother Oni]

So yeah I stopped after a day or so and decided that a game where I need insurance wasn't the game for me, or as I thought, anyone.

Before I start, I'll refer you to the first line of my initial post - "It isn't a game for everybody'.

So you've played the game for a day, didn't like it and decided that it wasn't a game that anyone should enjoy?

I've been playing for nearly 3 years and I'm still learning things about the mechanics due to the complexity of the game. And you believe that you've managed to experience everything the game has to offer in a day?

By design, it wasn't intended to be a mainstream game. That said, it's one of the few MMOs to have consistently increased subscriber numbers since release - I believe there is somewhere in the region of 250 thousand active accounts according to last year's released numbers. That's not too shabby considering it's a niche game and given Iceland's current economic problems, CCP still seems to be operating fine.


We EVE players aren't trying to convert everybody to play the game (I don't think the server could handle the strain, even with Stackless IO...). We're just trying to ensure that people evaluate it fairly on its own merits and not solely on the negative experiences of people who didn't like it.
If you didn't like it, you didn't like it - just move on to another MMO which may be more to your tastes.

[Brother Oni]

Well I was just curious if anyone played. I like the game (even though I got podded today and lost a full set of lvl 4 implants). Feel free to look me up as Bromboor! No more podding though please :smallsmile:

Level 4 locator agent engaged.... :smallwink:

[Triaxx]

Eve is one of those games, that I really, really wanted to like, but having tried it two seperate times, I simply couldn't bring myself to say that yes, this is fun.

The first time, was a 14-day trial period. I knew people already in and was offered a time card if I found I liked the game. In exchange I would spend the trial period as a scout. Translation: Fly a shuttle through the gate, and either tell them it was clear, or blow up and alert them of pirates. I spent more time doing the latter. It was fun, after all, I did manage to survive a few gate jumps without being slaughtered instantly. I declined the card though, and went on to other games.

The second time, I was at my cousin's house, and he was called away shortly before he was supposed to assist in a mission, mining in 0.0 space. I talked him and his other members into letting me take his place, since he was flying the hauler that time. Fortunately the scenery is nearly pretty enough to be fun by itself. Because playing dump truck is not my favorite assignment.

[The Evil Thing]

The second time, I was at my cousin's house, and he was called away shortly before he was supposed to assist in a mission, mining in 0.0 space. I talked him and his other members into letting me take his place, since he was flying the hauler that time. Fortunately the scenery is nearly pretty enough to be fun by itself. Because playing dump truck is not my favorite assignment.
You thought hauling was dull? Ever tried to be a mining foreman? You just sit in a battlecruiser with a mining link module on. That's it. :smallbiggrin:

On the other hand, that does leave you free to talk with your friends and/or watch local for pirates.

[HyperInferno]

Eve is one of those games, that I really, really wanted to like, but having tried it two seperate times, I simply couldn't bring myself to say that yes, this is fun.

The first time, was a 14-day trial period. I knew people already in and was offered a time card if I found I liked the game. In exchange I would spend the trial period as a scout. Translation: Fly a shuttle through the gate, and either tell them it was clear, or blow up and alert them of pirates. I spent more time doing the latter. It was fun, after all, I did manage to survive a few gate jumps without being slaughtered instantly. I declined the card though, and went on to other games.

The second time, I was at my cousin's house, and he was called away shortly before he was supposed to assist in a mission, mining in 0.0 space. I talked him and his other members into letting me take his place, since he was flying the hauler that time. Fortunately the scenery is nearly pretty enough to be fun by itself. Because playing dump truck is not my favorite assignment.

Ouch man, you got stuck with like 2 of the more crappy jobs in eve. Hauling, and suicide scouting. At least inty scouts can usually escape. Yeah, unfortunatly, this really is one of those "not for everybody" games. It's one of those games you either absolutely love, or absolutely hate. Me? I love the rush of combat, I love the thrill of the market (which in my opinion more closely resembles a real life market than any other game). Hell, I even enjoy ice mining sometimes since its kinda peaceful. Yes, I have killed people in lowsec, often without provocation. Did I do it because I wanted to ruin there day? No. I did it because I saw some shiny arbalest launchers and they sell for alot of money. Yes, I have ransomed players ships, and I have always honored those ransoms.

EVE is different. Not better. Different. We don't call blowing up your destroyer in lowsec griefing. The game is based around risk vs reward. You chose to enter low security space. The risk you take is that someone like me will see a possible reward in killing you. You may say "but, its just a little catalyst, how would you gain anything?", and I say "well, catalysts are one of the most popular salvaging ships". You may say, "it was just a little frigate" and I will say "I once killed a frigate and looted a 1b isk bpo". But, of course, there are many I have killed that either tried to escape instead of paying the ransom, or one I only thought had something valueable.

But, what makes eve different, is it didn't just end with me killing them. Some of them would come back with a bunch of friends and chase me down. Some would place bounties on my head, hire mercs to hunt my corporation, or in some cases just offer some sort of deal for me to leave them alone. In fact, there is one guy, who happened to not be very smart with his money (I also have no pity for him since he illegally purchased isk with real money from isk farmers). Well, long story short, he ended up 1 billion isk short, and I ended up with an extra 1 billion. He still hunts me to this day. Luckily, he has yet to catch me.

Those things above, are the sort of things that make the game fun. Sure, there is pvp, there is pve, there is trade, there is production. But its the things that aren't really part of the game that make it different. I see you say "UO players are laughing". Well, I'll admit, I never played UO, heard it was pretty awesome though. If UO has battles with 600+ people on the field, let me know, I might play.

[HyperInferno]

Those of us who played UO are laughing like hell right now.

Thanks for turning my attempt to end the war into more fuel for it, I really appreciate that.

[Triaxx]

The joke in the group was that the foreman wasn't actually a person, just a computer set up to run the module. I'm not sure it wasn't true. :smallwink:

Admittedly, suicide scouting was kind of boring, but the best thing I found was to throw the throttles forwards and try to ram the enemy. Given that the extent of my skills were 'Die', and 'Die horribly', it was eventually fun.

I'll admit that hauling in Eve was far more fun than in say... Freelancer. At least I had effective back-up, and some serious hauling capacity. And unlike Freelancer, I was able to start moving and not be immediately swamped by two thousand enemies. Or worry about if the non-humans were going to suddenly go from friendly to hostile and demand my cargo. They all wanted it. :smallbiggrin:

Perhaps I'll give it another go when I have better internet again.

[Prowl]

I've played MMORPGs since they were text based MUDs running off of university mainframes. Played a lot of WoW over the past few years but gave it up when I saw what a clusterf*** they were making of the expansion, and decided that a poorly designed, poorly balanced game with the challenge level of a Fischer-Price toy wasn't something that interested me.

So I played a couple of weeks of EVE on a trial. I liked it a LOT, finally a game where using your brain actually helps you a lot instead of being merely an endless grind where the only novelty came from what the latest patch managed to make unbalanced.

Unfortunately work has been so heavy recently that I haven't really been able to follow it up, but if I do end up playing another MMORPG, EVE Online will definitely be the one.

[Prowl]

Have you considered the fact that some people enjoy the game *because* succeeding is difficult? because the world is downright hostile? because they had to suffer for victory?

That's exactly what makes EVE appealing. If I want just some pretty graphics and no challenge, I'll watch a movie. If I just want to chat with strangers, I'll join an MSN chat room.

Challenge that's not "fake difficulty" breeds a sense of accomplishment; that plus some danger and an occasional adrenaline rush is what in a MMO I find to be fun.

Not for everyone, but it sure works for me. Roleplayer and socializer types might not be as entertained by it; powergamer types will almost certainly find it worth their while.

[Qanael]

Mmm, EVE. I started playing in 2005, then quit for about a year. I like it because even if you can't log on for more than a few minutes, you can keep your character's skill progression going (can't say the same for your wallet, though).

I've been through a few medium to large-scale wars in EVE, and I can say they're the most fun I've had, even if my wallet spirals downwards in a screaming ball of fire. There's nothing quite like leading a 50-man fleet into battle.

The PVE side of EVE isn't all that, I must admit; past a certain skill level, missions and NPC grinding become ridiculously easy. They're supposed to introduce huge, difficult storyline arcs in the next expansion though. They're also starting a progressive redesign of the UI (thank heavens for that!).

[Brother Oni]

Unfortunately work has been so heavy recently that I haven't really been able to follow it up, but if I do end up playing another MMORPG, EVE Online will definitely be the one.

Actually EVE is one of the few games where you can still actually advance while not playing.

When my son was born, I wasn't able to play for around 8 months, but I was still able to log in every few days or so to change skill training, thus I haven't actually lost any character development compared to the student who has the time to play for several hours every day.



I like it because even if you can't log on for more than a few minutes, you can keep your character's skill progression going (can't say the same for your wallet, though).

Actually you can with trade orders. I've got a corpmate who used to make a few hundred milllion ISK every week or so, even though she could only play for longer than half an hour on the weekends.
I wish I had her marketing savvy sometimes. :smallannoyed:

[RPGuru1331]

Actually EVE is one of the few games where you can still actually advance while not playing.

When my son was born, I wasn't able to play for around 8 months, but I was still able to log in every few days or so to change skill training, thus I haven't actually lost any character development compared to the student who has the time to play for several hours every day.

Eh heh. Far be it from me to denigrate an experienced character, but EVE is a game where Money matters; a lot. Missing out on cash is just as much a loss of exp, particularly when EVERYONE gets skill training.

[HyperInferno]

Eh heh. Far be it from me to denigrate an experienced character, but EVE is a game where Money matters; a lot. Missing out on cash is just as much a loss of exp, particularly when EVERYONE gets skill training.

Actually, in my experience, it's often the tactics that win at the end of the day. I once killed 3 battleships with a wee little battlecruser (I <3 my myrmidon). How you ask? Simple. I had one friend with me who was piloting a falcon (the omfgwtfbbq jamming ship of doom), and another friend in an interceptor. Our ships combined probably cost equal to 1 and 1/2 of a fitted battleship. we each had one battleship warp jammed, the falcon did a near perma-jam on all three ships (carefully timed so that all 3 stayed aggressed, but also that I didn't die), and I layed down just enough dps to break through their tanks.

But yeah, I'll admit, in the long run, it's money that wins wars. Money buys more dreadnaughts, more carriers, more deathstars.

[JMobius]

Bah...

I played EVE for about two years, stopped in mid 2007. This thread is highly tempting me to pick it up again...

[HyperInferno]

Bah...

I played EVE for about two years, stopped in mid 2007. This thread is highly tempting me to pick it up again...

Hey, if you do, I might be able to get you into a rather nice corp/alliance (190/1600 people respectively)

[Brother Oni]

Eh heh. Far be it from me to denigrate an experienced character, but EVE is a game where Money matters; a lot. Missing out on cash is just as much a loss of exp, particularly when EVERYONE gets skill training.

I agree with you, up to a point.

In situations where money is of high demand (in a corp war or competing with other people in a market war for example) then yes, missing out on money would be a critical factor, especially where the war's turned into a battle of attrition.

Once you've hit a certain point in the game however, money matters less than you think.


For example, take two players who start at the same time. One player (A) has sufficient free time to play for several hours every day, while the other (B) can only play at weekends.

Player A will have a huge cash advantage over player B, hopefully a better understanding of the game mechanics and hence better player skills (you’d be surprised how many ‘experienced characters’ work off empirical observations rather than knowing the theory), but will only have the same character skills and hence the same capabilities as player B.

Sure player A will be able to afford better quality equipment which are a few percentage points better than what player B can afford, but due to the way the skill system works, he’s stuck at the same approximate power level as player B. If anything, player A is more likely to make the classic new EVE player mistake of assuming bigger is better as he has more money to play around with than player B, so that cash advantage is likely to disappear after the first few expensive mistakes due to the high death penalty, while player B is more likely to stay in smaller ships and improve his support skills before moving up as he’s forced to be more economical with his money.


Further to Hyper Inferno's battle description, I've seen a gameplay video of a rifter and a punisher (both basic level frigates that a new player can start flying almost immediately) take on a scorpion (battleship) and win. The two frigates with fittings probably cost less than a tenth of what the battleship hull alone cost, so money doesn't always guarantee victory.

[TheCheshireHat]

Ah EVE. I admit it´s a game I find quite interesting in concept, but in practice I found it rather... unengaging. I´ve played about a month of it, in two side-by-side trial accounts and managed to mess around with most aspects of the game. My experience was, roughly, the following.

PvE combat: Very, very dull. Mostly because the limited variety of missions. I destroyed the same monter-infested habitat, blowing up a couple of dozen crazy enviromentalists on the way more times than I care to count. Another issue for me was the fact that there was no emotional charge to get the mission done, and no relation or empathy for the NPC issueing it. This is quite understandable, given the size of the universe EVE has, but still counts as a point against it, in my book.

PvP Combat: I admit I got very little experience with this, given the short time I played. The cost of death made things quite interesting, the vast difference in power-level you could expect to encounter made it less about fighting and more about running away really fast. Or stopping the other guy from running away, in the rare occasions I manged to find someone who wouldn´t blow me to bits before I even registered their presence. I was flying a Rifter, which at least made it recovering from being blown to bits easy. At least I got a few laughs at people who demanded I pay 5M or die. "Do I LOOK like I have that kind of cash lying around!?"

Mining: In hi-sec, the most mind-numbingly boring thing I have ever done on a computer. In low-sec, the most mind numbingly boring thing I have ever done on a computer that actually required me to pay attention to not die horribly.

Market: Probably the part of the game that most appealed to me. The market system in EVE is fascinating. I spent the last week or so playing the market. Unfortunately, frigates are not very good for transporting goods, so I was very limited in what I could do. Still, I made more money in that period than killing rats in low-sec, running empire missions or trying to be a freelance pirate (I´ll let you guess how well THAT went).

Still, in the end I didn´t get an account for a couple of reasons. First, the pacing of the game felt slow. It takes what feels like ages to get from A to B, it takes a long time to develop the skill-set to do, well, anything well. And don´t get me started on mining. Again.
Second, I really couldn´t get any emotional involvment with anything in the game. The people are still people, sure, but the NPC´s might as well have number tags instead of names. Most important was the fact that I couldn´t get involved with my own character. My ship was just a chunk of metal that might or might not get scrapped in the next minutes, or hours, and a static portrait just doesn´t cut it for me when it comes to connecting with my in-game representative.
To make a comparison. In WoW, or CoH/V, or AO, or PlanetSide, when the crap hits the fan my reaction generally goes along the lines of "Ohcrapohcrapohcrap I´m gonna die". Not that I´m not taking steps to not die, mind. In EVE, my reaction to getting targetted (unmistakable sign that the crap is incoming to the fan) was more along the lines of "Oh dear, I´m going to have to buy a new ship". I just didn´t feel as immersed.

Lessee... to give a little more context to my experience I´ll say that I spent most of my time flying a Rifter or the Minmatar mining frigate who´s name eludes me. I did join a player corp towards the end of my trial, but I didn´t see any major PvP action (I was told that things were unusually peaceful at the time, and that something was likely to happen soon). This was around christmas last year.

That said, I did have quite a bit of fun playing EVE, specially on two fronts. One was making characters with funny faces on the portrait maker. I was quite proud when I managed to get my character have completely pupil-less eyes, which combined with some creative lighting made her look quite spooky. I also had a lot of fun naming the various ships I commanded for sometimes brief periods of time. I remember thee well Blazing Glory IX.

Unfortunately, nothing remained fun for very long, and too soon became something suspiciously routine. Mind, it is something I experience with all MMOs eventually. With EVE it just happened a lot quicker. I guess it just ain´t my kind of game.

[RPGuru1331]

Actually, in my experience, it's often the tactics that win at the end of the day. I once killed 3 battleships with a wee little battlecruser (I <3 my myrmidon). How you ask? Simple. I had one friend with me who was piloting a falcon (the omfgwtfbbq jamming ship of doom), and another friend in an interceptor. Our ships combined probably cost equal to 1 and 1/2 of a fitted battleship. we each had one battleship warp jammed, the falcon did a near perma-jam on all three ships (carefully timed so that all 3 stayed aggressed, but also that I didn't die), and I layed down just enough dps to break through their tanks.

But yeah, I'll admit, in the long run, it's money that wins wars. Money buys more dreadnaughts, more carriers, more deathstars.

Heh. One of my friends is in a corp that does the Zergling schtick. In the end of a battle, the kill count wlil be like, 20 v. 120 against them, but the monetary end of it will have them in a huge financial win.

[HyperInferno]

In response to cheshire, who I won't quote for the sake of saving everyone the trouble of extra scrolling. Look up info on "ambulation" the next big expansion, which is set to include player models and allow you to actually walk around the stations.

Mining, pve both very boring. Market is fun and exciting. Try out the jita market if you play again, it is the central hub of eve. If you play around with the fluctuating prices, you can make a fortune overnight, but beware, because you can lose that fortune even faster.

Pvp is fun, and can be quite a rush. Even in the big huge battles, the tiny ships that newer players fly play an important role. Nothing can escape a good interceptor pilot. A handful of kitsunes will shut you down faster than you can say "wtf?". Even the t1 frigs can play a role as scouts or cyno pilots (cyno is short for Cynosaural Field, which is what capital ship jump drives lock on to since the ships are too big to use stargates). I got 6 kills in a battle with a little assault ship by just weaving in and out of enemy fire and pumping out just enough dps to take down a few enemy cruisers.

But, what i consider to be the best part of the game, is the feeling of the wars. A war in 0.0 space, is just, different. Its not like WoW's alliance vs horde. In WoW you always have the main player towns, with plenty of supplies to go back to. In 0.0, you have to make it on your own. The ships, weapons, ammo, fuel, all of it is only there if somebody is actually producing it. When a major supply route is cut off, you can feel the desperation sink in. You find yourself fitting ships not based on what is the most effective, but what is actually avaliable. You fight to take back that jump bridge or bottleneck, not because you want a fight, but because you NEED that route. Every freighter death chimes in as a collective thought of "well, damn, looks like I won't be getting a new battleship today". And every time a carrier pilot crys for back-up, you come running, because you know just how hard it will be to defend your home without it. And hell, I risk my head doubly so every time I go out since I am a fleet commander, thus making me a more valueable target.

Sure, at the end of the day, its just a bunch of internet pixels. Just a bunch of 0s and 1s on some giant server in london. But, for just a moment, it feels like its a bit more. That sort of experience I have never found in any other game.

[Astrella]

This thread has really gotten my interest for Eve - online back up.

Just a question, is there still a trial available and I've read it's possible to pay for your subscription with in game money? Is this possible and how hard is it to do this?

[HyperInferno]

This thread has really gotten my interest for Eve - online back up.

Just a question, is there still a trial available and I've read it's possible to pay for your subscription with in game money? Is this possible and how hard is it to do this?

There always is, and probably always will be a 14-day trial. Occasionally longer trials are avaliable for special events and such. As for the game time things... as of the most recent expansion, buying game time with game money has been made even easier since time cards are actually in-game items. You simply buy one in game through the market system like any other item, right click it, and click "activate". Prices were about 260m per 30 days last I checked, which is out of the price range for alot of newer players. But if you know how to work the market or just have alot of free time for pve or mining, you can start getting at least 300-400m a month starting out. So, generally, if you are going down this route, you will likely have to pay for your first month or two yourself.

If you need someone to help you out at first, look up "Eliphal". And yes btw, I do realize that every eve player on this forum is going to start shooting at me, but it seems everyone shoots at me anyways.

[Astrella]

Sounds good, I wont be able to try it until the weekend though. I'll send a message if I need help.

[jkou]

I know its not fantasy based, but does anyone here play Eve-online?




Yeah, i love it.:smallsmile:

[Brother Oni]

To TheCheshireHat,

Eve is intended to be a slow developing game. It's a pity that you didn't like it, because you're already showing the right attitude with regard to ship losses that a large number of current players could learn.

As you never made it past the end of the trial, you were restricted in what ships you could have flown - industrial class ships especially would have seen your trading potential sky rocket upwards.

As HyperInferno said, ambulation, which is pencilled in for March 2009, maybe your sort of thing.



To Sirroelivan,

Further to HyperInferno's answer about the trial, there's a 14 day trial you can download off the main website, but there's also a 21 day trial if you download it via Steam.

In addition, if you give your email address to HyperInferno, HyperInferno can send a trial key through the buddy program, which if it gets activated, nets both of you a nice couple of extras (free game time for Hyper and entry for both of you into a CCP monthly lottery).

For a starter character, 300-400 million a month is a little optimistic in my opinion, unless you're very lucky with the market or you follow one of the player guides that shows you exactly how to earn enough money in the trial to buy a game time card (and even that's dependent on current market values). In addition, all that money goes solely to buy your time for next month, so unless you can find some extra money somewhere, you'll be stuck in a loop doing nothing but earning money on that you can carry on earning money for next month.

[Triaxx]

Sounds like the trick early on is to do that 14-day cash trick once, get the time card, then immediately do it again, so you have a second card. Now you've got a month to play before you need to activate your new card and do it again. During which you can refine the cash process with better equipment.

[The Evil Thing]

The trouble with switching to a new trial every 14 days is that you'll lose all of your skillpoints. Eventually you'll have to suck it up and pay, since you can't use a GTC to activate your account, only to pay for extra time.

[HyperInferno]

The trouble with switching to a new trial every 14 days is that you'll lose all of your skillpoints. Eventually you'll have to suck it up and pay, since you can't use a GTC to activate your account, only to pay for extra time.

Actually, you can activate with a GTC. Alot of people do that since you save the $5 off the first month that way.

[The Evil Thing]

Actually, you can activate with a GTC. Alot of people do that since you save the $5 off the first month that way.
Is that so? I must have misread something then.

[Brother Oni]

Not really. Typical CCP lack of documentation strikes again.

Officially when activating an account with a GTC, you lose a couple days to the account administration fee. People have been reporting that they have lost no days and this official 'lose a couple days' has since been removed from the account and billing information and players guide.

Activating with a credit card still hits you with the account fee. :smallannoyed:

The in-game pilot licenses can also be used to activate an account with no loss of days, but you have to be logged on in game to activate them, so while they can be used to maintain an account or activate a current trial to full account, you can't use them to activate an expired account.

[Triaxx]

Actually, I meant starting one trial, upgrading to the account, and then repeating the cash process as if you were still playing the trial, refining it as you go to take advantage of more powerful and higher capacity ships.

[HyperInferno]

Or you have a friend in-game who is somewhat wealthy (Only 1.4b liquid and 2.5b in assets, not much tbh, I know one guy with like 70b, and he feels the need to mention it way too often, making everyone else feel poor). Said friend could help you get access to methods that allow for much faster initial isk gain.

[JMobius]

I'll probably be resuming the game some time this weekend. I used to rat in 0.0 to make my money, but that got rather tedious. I'm going to try my hand at being a marketeer this time around, at least in part because I don't have as much playtime as I used to and can't afford to grind.

Alias of my old account was 'Jayalin'. Hopefully they haven't wiped anything...

[HyperInferno]

I don't think they've pruned the inactive accounts in years, if ever.

[LightWraith]

I have to admit... I've heard of this game before, but I've never tried it. It does sound intriguing though, maybe I'll give it a go over my holiday break.

[HyperInferno]

I have to admit... I've heard of this game before, but I've never tried it. It does sound intriguing though, maybe I'll give it a go over my holiday break.

Contact me if you join up, trust me, the noob experience is alot better when you got someone to help you out.

[Brother Oni]

Actually, I meant starting one trial, upgrading to the account, and then repeating the cash process as if you were still playing the trial, refining it as you go to take advantage of more powerful and higher capacity ships.

Except that with all the money going to your next card, it's unlikely that you'll be able to afford the bigger and more expensive ships and skills/modules to fly them effectively.

You'll also be playing somewhere in the region of 7+ hours a day, according to the guides.

I'm not saying it's impossible, plenty of established players can earn enough money to effectively play for free, but for a new player it's going to turn EVE into a job, where you should be playing it for fun.

Treating EVE like a job is also going to make that inevitable ship loss hit a lot harder - there's a video on youtube where this miner got his ship destroyed by pirates and he started swearing at the pirates in the local channel. The CEO of the pirates' corp invited the bloke to their Teamspeak server in order to get an apology and the amount of abuse the miner hurled would turn the air blue.
Now that's taking the game too seriously. :smallbiggrin:

[The Evil Thing]

Treating EVE like a job is also going to make that inevitable ship loss hit a lot harder - there's a video on youtube where this miner got his ship destroyed by pirates and he started swearing at the pirates in the local channel. The CEO of the pirates' corp invited the bloke to their Teamspeak server in order to get an apology and the amount of abuse the miner hurled would turn the air blue.
Now that's taking the game too seriously. :smallbiggrin:
You destroyed my Cloudsong!!! :smallfurious:

*ahem*

My character's name is Penchance. If you want help on being a full time carebear then drop me a line. Actually, just drop me a line anyway because I love to meet new people.

[Triaxx]

Yes, but isn't the point of a job so you have the cash to do the fun things? And besides, doing it once a month still leaves you half the month to enjoy the game. And earn more money for better ships instead of just the card.

I could probably talk the aforementioned cousin into helping me start up. He's a truck driver and plays during his down time. And since he's not working this time of year, that means all the time.

Carebear?

[HyperInferno]

Carebear is a term used to describe non-pvp pilots. Although almost every pvp pilot has to carebear a little now and then. I earn the money for my pvp pilot by having an alt that runs a production line.

[The Evil Thing]

That's the most tactful description of a carebear I've seen in a while. :smallbiggrin:

And yes, I am in non-PvP mode right now since I'm at uni and don't have time to be mucking around in non-secure space.

[Triaxx]

Ah. Well, I assume everyone is out to kill me anyway, until proven otherwise. Repeatedly.

[Grumbolt]

Wow, seems like alot of people. Someone did try to contact me but I think I accidently deleted the mail (I had about 50 from various bases/agents).

For the new starters, train the learning skills and all the other skills will be faster to get.

Run missions (combat if you an handle it). Its the fastest way to make money.

Stay away from systems with a seurity under 0.5 (unless you like restarting in your underware).

Fly safe!

[The Evil Thing]

For the new starters, train the learning skills and all the other skills will be faster to get.
Please be careful when telling folks to learn the learning skills.

First two weeks get the basic learning skills to level 2 or 3. After a month get the SOCT (advanced) ones to level 4. After that get the basics to level 5.*

Spending (literally) days training skills that have no short term benefit when you have so few skills as it is is soul-destroying

*You lucky newcomers didn't have to train the basics to 5 before the advanced ones became available. Now that was a slog. Builds character (again literally), though.

[Brother Oni]

I agree with The Evil Thing. If you're planning to just see what the game is like, don't bother with the learning skills at all. Train up weapons, train up new ships, get a feel for the game before deciding you want to pay for a subscription.

If you find yourself hooked after the the first tutorial mission however and are planning to play the game long term (longer than six months), then feel freel to grind the learning skills up inbetween useful skills as you'll need to earn money to buy the skills anyway.



*Waves old man stick around* I remember when the character generation was random! None of this fancy la-di-dah 2 starter skills to 5, balanced to 800 thousand SP rubbish! If you were lucky, you started with 30 thousand SP and you were grateful!
And we didn't have this lazy, good-for-nothing warp-to-zero nonsense! We had to slow boat the 15km to each destination, both ways! :smallmad:

[JMobius]

Please be careful when telling folks to learn the learning skills.

First two weeks get the basic learning skills to level 2 or 3. After a month get the SOCT (advanced) ones to level 4. After that get the basics to level 5.*

Spending (literally) days training skills that have no short term benefit when you have so few skills as it is is soul-destroying

*You lucky newcomers didn't have to train the basics to 5 before the advanced ones became available. Now that was a slog. Builds character (again literally), though.

Now you want slog, I had got all of the advanced ones to level 5 as well, just to say I could.

[HyperInferno]

Now you want slog, I had got all of the advanced ones to level 5 as well, just to say I could.

advanced learning to level 5???? THATS MADNESS!!!

I r lazy, so I gots learning V, basics IV, adv III, and then +4 implants.

[JMobius]

advanced learning to level 5???? THATS MADNESS!!!

I r lazy, so I gots learning V, basics IV, adv III, and then +4 implants.

It took me a looong time to get them all maxed. There were times I would weep every time I started up Adv. Charisma V. But I hung on and got an unusual achievement to boast for it. Now if only I could actually fly a ship...

(Just kidding, I actually had really good ship skills too :P)

I could never afford +4s, though. That made me sad.

[HyperInferno]

I do alot of pvp, so I just buy a +4 for the primary attribute of whatever big skill i'm training (working on propulsion jamming V right now, cuz I wants me a heavy interdictor). Although I think they recently fixed it so when you die the skill time recalculates so you don't continue getting the benefit of the implant.

[The Evil Thing]

Being a carebear has its advantages on the implant front: I can quite happily install +5s (well, to be honest, unhappily, since they're so bloody expensive) with a relatively low risk of getting them blown up.

I tip my hat to those who train the advanced skills to 5 but not without a slight smirk. Well, let's just say you're better prepared for when CCP introduces tier three ones.

[Brother Oni]

I tip my hat to those who train the advanced skills to 5 but not without a slight smirk. Well, let's just say you're better prepared for when CCP introduces tier three ones.

The people who trained up the Advanced skills to 5 will be smirking back whenever new skills are released as they'll be training them faster than you.

I think there was a small amount of private smirking this September as well as that was then the payoff for all those who trained the advanced learning skills to 5 when they first came out, cancelled out the investment time.

However CCP have publicly regretted introducing the learning skills as it added an unintentional month or two of skill grinding for all new players, so it's unlikely they'll ever release tier 3 learning skills.

[HyperInferno]

I believe the learning skills were put in to bridge the gap between newer players and the veterans. Unfortunately, in the long run, they serve to just increase the gap between those that train them and those that dont

[Prowl]

So I gave in and signed up for a full-service account... train, train, train learning skills! It's nice having my character advance while I'm offline. Since I don't have all that much time to play and the starting build is plenty good enough for the early game, it's no big deal to spend all my points in learning skills for now - by the time I really need any other skills they'll zip by due to souped up attributes. The only drawback is that I can't afford the level 2 learning books, but I can live with that while I still have level 1s to train up.

[1dominator]

Hey, long time lurker, rare poster here.
I have heard quite a bit about EVE, and after reading this thread my interest in playing has been piqued. I think I will download the trial and try it our sometime this weekend.

[Brother Oni]

Congratulations for choosing EVE. :smallbiggrin:

Please note that the tutorial will take about 4 hours to complete and it is HIGHLY recommended that you do it before starting on your plan to achieve universal domination of the EVE universe.

On the plus side, once you've cleared basic controls and introduction to game mechanics and are on the starter mission chain, you can leave it alone for up to a week between missions.

[1dominator]

Well, after some messing around and experiencing the lag-fest that is Jita. I have managed to figure out how to fly, shoot things, mine, buy things, sell things, buy things cheaply and refine stuff, among other things.
Seems like a fun game so far, if a bit complicated. (I am a Caldarian by the way.)

[WhiteShark]

I want to play this so much! How hard is it to run? The computers available to me are not exactly... up to par.

[1dominator]

You can probably find the system requirments on their site.
Here's the link, www.eve-online.com

[WhiteShark]

Er, yeah, thanks. Now I feel dumb. :smallredface:

[hgdf45]

I know its not fantasy based, but does anyone here play Eve-online?





Yeah, my friend told me this game is nice for him. i think its good for players.

[Brother Oni]

Er, yeah, thanks. Now I feel dumb. :smallredface:

Don't be. CCP are notorious for their poor documentation and although they're making substantial steps to rectify this, it's still early days.

For example, it took me a few minutes of searching to find the system requirements (they've changed everything around recently):

http://support.eve-online.com/Pages/KB/Article.aspx?id=124

The Classic client is designed for lower end computers (runs just fine on my old machine which is a 2GHz Athlon, Radeon X800GT with 1 Gb RAM) and the game is still playable on a 56K modem (don't expect to be doing anything more strenuous than trading in station though).

The Premium client is the one with all the graphical bells and whistles on and looks very pretty. The graphical effect whenever you turn on your cloaking device still makes me go 'Oooooo shiny...'. :smallbiggrin:

[HyperInferno]

Heh, alot of veterans still turn off the premium stuff when they go into combat, regardless of how powerful thier computer is. Personally, I i switch between the two since I dont have enough ram to run multiple premium clients. So when I am doing one client its premium, multi i use classic.

[1dominator]

Er, yeah, thanks. Now I feel dumb. :smallredface:

Sorry about not giving a more specific link, but I myself am still rather lost at sea in terms of their site.

[dresdor]

Currently playing. If you wanna chat message "Tigerras" in-game

[WhiteShark]

Is there a Giantitp corp yet, or are there too few Eve players-itp to form one?

[The Evil Thing]

I'm assuming there are too few players. Most of us GITP EVE vets will just try to hoover up new players into our corps anyway. :smallbiggrin:

[Brother Oni]

I'm assuming there are too few players. Most of us GITP EVE vets will just try to hoover up new players into our corps anyway. :smallbiggrin:

The only website based EVE organisation I know of is Goonfleet (Something Awful.com) and I don't think GITP want to be tarred with the same brush. :smallwink:

Regardless of any external affliations, any smart EVE corp will be wary of any new players just off trial (it's nothing personal, it's just the generally paranoid nature of EVE).

For example, my corp has a fairly hefty highsec research POS with a large number of valuable BPOs installed. We have a 'hands and throat' rule for those people who have access to it - if you can't physically get your hands around their throat, they won't have direct access to it. :smallbiggrin:

[WhiteShark]

Just curious. Since that's the case, I'll probably join MerchI. I'd been planning to anyway, it just suddenly occurred to me that maybe there was an EVE corp-itp.

[The Evil Thing]

Regardless of any external affliations, any smart EVE corp will be wary of any new players just off trial (it's nothing personal, it's just the generally paranoid nature of EVE).

For example, my corp has a fairly hefty highsec research POS with a large number of valuable BPOs installed. We have a 'hands and throat' rule for those people who have access to it - if you can't physically get your hands around their throat, they won't have direct access to it. :smallbiggrin:
You're assuming we have something worth stealing. :smallamused::smallannoyed::smallfrown::smalleek:

[Prowl]

I'm still in getting-my-bearings mode, and already I've seen some seriously aggressive recruiting... don't know how much of it is sincere, but I'd have to guess that there are a lot of new corps hurting for players.

[Brother Oni]

I'm still in getting-my-bearings mode, and already I've seen some seriously aggressive recruiting... don't know how much of it is sincere, but I'd have to guess that there are a lot of new corps hurting for players.

Yup, there's a worrying trend for new players with experience from other MMOs assume that the corp system is the equivalent of their guild system, start up a corp and start recruiting as soon as they've finished the trial.

They then end up getting targeted by other corps looking for easy kills and end up getting killed repeatedly until they either start whining on the forums how EVE is a 'griefing game' and leave the game/disband the corp or they learn how to fight and survive the corp war.

Unfortunately the latter rarely happens as the corp CEO (leader) generally doesn't have sufficient game experience to lead effectively and ends up ruining the EVE experience for all the new players they've recruited into their rookie corp.


In my experience, most established corps that are aggressively recruiting are generally only looking for one of two things: mining slaves that are willing to break rocks all day to fuel their wars or cannon fodder for their PVP operations. Good corps usually have their reputation precede them, thus they don't need to aggressively recruit - applicants come to them.

On the plus side of being cannon fodder, EVE is the only MMO I've played where a brand new character is still very useful for their far older team mates, usually in the 'tackler' role where your job is to tie down the enemy and stop them from fleeing while your corp mates kill them.
If you're lucky, you'll survive and if you die, a decent corp will usually supply you with replacement ships and parts for free (don't forget to update your clone!), as dying is a quite frequent occupational hazard while tackling.

[HyperInferno]

Just curious. Since that's the case, I'll probably join MerchI. I'd been planning to anyway, it just suddenly occurred to me that maybe there was an EVE corp-itp.

I'm part of a little corp that probably wouldn't mind having a few people (its a side thing that lets me get away from the big fleet chaos every one in awhile). They probably wouldn't mind having you around, if I didn't post my names already its Eliphal and Mira Thomas.

[Prowl]

I've been pretty much sticking to myself for a while, taking my time to build a respectable skill base before I head out into anything more challenging than level 1 missions.

This is my plan so far, let me know if I'm too far off what I should be doing:

I'm Minmatar, so first thing I did was work my standing up with Republic Fleet. Best level 1 agents they have are quality 18, so I worked up the standing to where I could use one, found one in a quiet low-sec area, and have been running missions for him over and over. This plus salvage, mission loot, and bounty prizes seems to get me a safe and steady source of income.

I've got a destroyer fitted with 5 of the biggest artillery I could fit on it, a salvage unit, and (fitted but deactivated) a miner and missile launcher. In mid slots I've got a shield booster, afterburner, and shield amplifier (vs. explosive). Low slots have a Damage Control I unit and armor repairer. Level 1 missions are very easy in this setup, biggest frustration is long salvaging times.

In the meantime I've been trying to build the skills I need. Since I'm making out well (I think) on missioning in my current setup, I've been putting a lot of points into learning skills. I got four +1 implants to help, looking for that Social Adaptation Chip to eventually be a reward from a storyline mission. Learning skills I have now are memory +4/+2 (training the +3 as we speak), intelligence +4/+3, perception +4/+2, willpower +3, charisma +3, learning +4. (Training any of these to level 5 is something I'm not prepared to deal with yet.)

In other skills I've been focused on Gunnery and Engineering mostly. I've bought every skill in those two groups that I'm eligible to train, gunnery started at 5 and engineering is now up to 4. I've gotten some basics in mechanics, electronics, and navigation as well.

The next sensible move for me seems to be to buy a cruiser. I have the Minmatar Cruiser skill and medium projectile weapon skills; the ship I'd like to fly requires Cruiser III.

[The Evil Thing]

Aah, in rust we trust. Doncha just lurve Minmatar? :smallcool:

If your ship gets damaged let me know since I've got 100 units of genuine Matari duct tape stashed in a station somewhere in Lonetrek.

[HyperInferno]

@Prowl:
Yeah, unfortunately, Minmatar are probably the hardest to train for, since they require multiple trees for thier weapons. A few things to focus on for them:
Navigation - Minmatar ships are among the fastest, if not the fastest ships.
Ewar - I recommend completely ignoring minnie ewar. Unfortunatly, target painters just don't work that well.
Drones - Not minmatar's specialty (that would be gallente), but, no matter what race you are, a little extra dps never hurts, so make sure to have at least drones V, and then a little drone interfacing (3 would be fine, which means an extra 60% dps from your drones!!!)
General guide to training for any ship-
Train for t2 fit. If you can t2 fit a ship, with decent support skills, you are sitting in a pretty good position. My personal recommendation, is to get to cruiser/battlecruiser level, then train up until you can switch everything to t2. Even if you don't end up fitting t2 due to cost, just having the skill reqs for it means that you are that much better off skill wise. Battleships are pretty and all, but they are quite fail if you dont have the skills to use them properly. Personally, I didn't fly a BS til I could use my T2 blasters on it, with t2 armor reps and armor hardeners, with the skills for a t2 mwd (although i use best named cuz t2 is fail now), and generally just t2 everything.

After you got yourself flying t2 fit, you can try working on t2 ships. Minnie HACs are alot of fun, and if you get into a 0.0 alliance, Heavy Interdictors will scare the crap out of anyone. Oh, and if you get into one alot sooner, Interceptors are a really easy ship to train for, and as any FC will tell you, they are one of the most important ships in a fleet.

Oh and btw, if anyone is trying to contact me in game, i will be out of game for a week or so cuz my home internet is broked.

[Prowl]

Day 18 of my adventures in EVE... starting to hit a wall. 1.3 million SP so far, and I've pumped a lot into increasing attributes - I've got Int 20, Per 22, Cha 10, Wil 17, Mem 15. I've got 3 of 5 +3 implants, missing Mem and Cha which have +1s. Only advanced learning skill I've yet to breach is the Cha one.

My destroyer rips through level 1 missions like butter, seems to be my best source of income. But it's becoming boring doing that over and over and over again... the salvaging part is especially boring. I picked up a small industrial ship to cart all the loot I want to sell to the local trade hub, as last time I tried the run in my destroyer I had to make three trips. I've still another 10 mil ISK to generate to get the Mem +3 implant and the Presence skillbook. I've also picked up level 1 or 2 in pretty much every skill I can train.

Now I've got Min Cruiser at level 2, and medium projectile guns at 2 as well. I'm thinking of getting a Rupture, but I'm concerned that if I try level 2s with it I'll just get creamed for lack of overall skills. For that matter, there are a lot of things I'd like to do, but having so few skills I'm afraid if I try anything other than what I'm doing I won't get very far.

[Malek]

ONe thing I haven't done in EVE is all that "train learning skills at start" stuff. I went straight for utility skills, getting from frigate to cruiser ASAP, and then to battlecruiser when I had the money (Drake <3). I'd probably bore myself to death if I tried to train learning skills first, and the beneift of doing it early is IMHO to small to be worth it. Instead I use Evemon to plan my major skill paths, and it shows me when getting more learning skills will cut the time :smallbiggrin:

As for salvage boredrom - get yourself cormorant (Caldari destoyer) and fit it with 4xTractor Beam, 4xSalvager and as much capacitor increasing stuff as you can to get it running. Trust me it saves a whole lot of time on salvaging. I also wouldn't bother with getting stuff to "local trade hub" (please, please, *please* tell me it's not Jita) - unless the price diffrence is very large (and with L1 loot I doubt it) it's probably not worth the time.

[Prowl]

The 'local trade hub' was just 4 jumps away, and no it was not Jita. Probably wasn't even seen by too many as a local trade hub, I just call it that because the sell prices were massively better than in the station where the agent for whom I was running missions was based.

Anyway... last night I managed to hook up with a 0.0 corp with its own space, volunteering to be a helping hand in exchange for the experience they could offer. They seem to have some idea of what they are doing so I'll just help them out and learn and see where that takes me.

[HyperInferno]

Well if you are in 0.0, beware, I might be takin a few shots at you :P

Oh, and my interwebs should be back today, so hopefully I have a full inbox :smallsmile:

[Malek]

I found myself a nifty implant today - Hardwiring - Zainou 'Gnome' KTA100 (http://www.battleclinic.com/eve_online/item/i24641-Hardwiring-Zainou-Gnome-KTA100-details.html) and decided to have a little fun with it rather than go for usual "use or sell for highest buy order" routine. I'm giving a limited offer of selling it to first person willing to spill 20mln for it (regular sell orders for that thingamagick go 25-30mln as far as I checked). The offer stands till end of the year, perhaps anyone is interested? :smallwink:

[HyperInferno]

find me some slave implants and we'll talk

[Prowl]

Catch me if you can! I'll be in Esoteria.

[Prowl]

so... I'm in this corp and got a list of skills I need to develop to be PvP viable... 8ish days of training. Somehow I ended up in a position where I accomplish more by simply logging on to train skills than by actually playing. But at least it's less monotonous than serial mission running.

[AgentPaper]

Used to play this, but then I realized what I really wanted was to play Space Empires V with the amarr ship designed. And now I am! Still, it was fun, and if we got a nicely sized GitPG corp up, I might be incentivized to start playing again, even if only every once in a while. :smallwink:

[HyperInferno]

I'd be willing to let you guys into my alt corp, to mooch off your tax payme.... I mean... provide fun times for all......

[HyperInferno]

Oh, btw guys, to all the naysayers about this game, EVE just recently broke its own record of I believe over 47,000 players on one server.

So yeah, EVE IS DIEING!!! oh noes!

[The Evil Thing]

Who said Eve is dying?


Incidentally, it's only natural that Eve would be constantly breaking its own records - nobody else is bothering to compete so it's kind of like a default win. :smallamused:


I remember when everyone was amazed when Tranquility broke the 30k barrier. Aaah... I'm getting old.

[Triaxx]

Kind of like WoW continually breaking the record for most neurotically obsessed idi... players?

[Malek]

Who said Eve is dying?
You don't read EVE forums too often, don't you? :smallwink:

[Maxymiuk]

You don't read EVE forums too often, don't you? :smallwink:

So what you're saying is that EVE's got an existential crisis/gone emo? :smalltongue:

[Brother Oni]

So what you're saying is that EVE's got an existential crisis/gone emo? :smalltongue:

No, but CCP has made some unpopular decisions recently.

If the proposed dropping of SM2 support in December 09 goes ahead, that might be the last straw that breaks a lot of camels' backs.

[Prowl]

Someone blew up my cruiser :smallfrown:

[The Evil Thing]

You don't read EVE forums too often, don't you? :smallwink:
I read the occasional threadnought but I generally try to stay clear of it. There are only so many hours in a day after all and it's a horrific timesink.

[Triaxx]

Wario: Gwa ha ha ha!

You're playing an MMO, and calling the forum a time sink?

[The Evil Thing]

Correct. When you buy an EVE subscription it's like you're getting two games for the price of one! :smallcool:

[Brother Oni]

True the forums are horrific timesink, but some parts of the forum are just horrific.

I wouldn't touch CAOD (or whatever it's called now) with a 10ft pole. Besides it'd probably just ignite from the constant flaming and hot air inside CAOD. :smallbiggrin:

[HyperInferno]

No, but CCP has made some unpopular decisions recently.

If the proposed dropping of SM2 support in December 09 goes ahead, that might be the last straw that breaks a lot of camels' backs.

FYI. SM2 is old. Most cards are on SM4.0 now. Chances are, they want to eventually make what is currently the "premium" client the "classic" client. That way, they can up the graphics once again with a new premium client. Thus making it an MMO that can in theory just never die since it not only adds new content but upgrades existing content to stay in line with new hardware.

Another reason for this is that they may have a slew of new content they want to add (besides ambulation which is slated to come out before SM2 is dropped), like who knows? we might have atmospheric flight summer of 2010. Dropping SM2 makes that implementation easier since they only have to make one set of models and code.

[Brother Oni]

I'm not disagreeing with you that SM2 is old or that the proposed change is unreasonable. What I am saying that there are a number of already unhappy customers, who are either unable or unwilling to upgrade to a SM3 or better video card.
These are the people that CCP will lose if the change goes through.

I personally have a 256mb PCI-E graphics card, which will more than happily run the premium client, except that it's an ATI card which doesn't support SM3 for some political reason.

While I probably will upgrade if the change comes through, it will done reluctantly, as I see no logical reason to throw out something that works fine for my needs (Company of Heroes is probably the most hardware demanding game I have).

[Prowl]

Back to the adventures of mr. newbie here... so I ended up deleting my Minmatar character entirely after about a month, and started up a brand new character. This one is a Caldari Deteis. My Minnie's stats were all messed up, I went way too heavy into Per/Wil and was suffering big time on all the support skills.

My new toon is a lot more balanced, starting with 10int/9per/7mem/7wil/6cha. I had about 5 mil ISK and a destroyer to start him off with, which made things a lot easier. My current strategy is to go almost exclusively for learning skills early, while picking up only the support skills I absolutely need to run missions effectively, and keeping those at the minimum necessary to be functional.

Seems to be working out well so far... I started with Mem learnings, and am almost finished now with the Int learnings, putting in +3 implants for each of those stats respectively to speed up the process. The character is 5 days old, and already has stats of 20 int, 18 mem, 14 per, 10 wil, 9 cha. With Int and Mem already buffed up, bringing the other stats up to similar levels should proceed even faster. Logic III should be done by the time I get home from work tonight, and by the weekend I should be in a position to ramp up all those Int/Mem skills I've been itching to train.

[Brother Oni]

You didn't have to make up a new character - I personally started off with 3 Memory and I'm still going with the same character (55mil SP and counting).

I admit learning all the support skills wasn't fun, but once they're done, you can now have fun with all the ship and weapons skills. :smallbiggrin:

If you're looking for the optimal method of training up your learning skills, then there's a post by Tripoli in a sticky in the Skills forum of the main EVE website that shows this path (usually alternating Mem/Int skills with sticking in Cybernetics and Learning here and there).


Since you seem to be planning to running missions until you're happy with your skills, then I suggest joining in the ingame channel 'Helpmymission'. You'll find a variety of people in there who are willing to help new players out, both with knowledge and giving the NPCs somebody else to shoot at. :smallbiggrin:

[Prowl]

The old character was only a month or so old, so I didn't give up much by recycling him. And a lot of the time put into him ended up in skills that, in hindsight, wouldn't have been too useful for quite a while. I also made a lot of mistakes with him - I now realize that I need to grow a basic skill set in highsec before I attempt to do anything else with any credibility.

I think the new character will catch up quick to where the old one was, now that I understand what skills are important early, and how to maximize SP/hour. I'm already pumping out almost 1850 SP/hour on Int/Mem skills.

The missioning is just a source of cash flow for lack of having any other such source. It's got the side benefit of ramping up my Caldari Navy standings, given time I should have that up to 8.0 and get the ability to put jump clones in CN stations.

[Brother Oni]

If you're just after jump clones, then look up Estel Arador as he's offering a free jump clone service.

Link (http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=939710).

[Prowl]

I'm after the entire set of options that getting a high standing with one corp will do for me... the jump clones, refining benefits, agents, and anything else I'm not aware of. It also seems to be a proper thing to do from a roleplay point of view, to get in good with my own faction. Not that I'm a big roleplayer, but a little bit helps to immerse oneself in the experience.

[Brother Oni]

You've got most of the benefits of having high corp standing, the other two are reduced broker fees for buy and sell orders and a small reduction in manufacturing job installation fees.

Have you decided what you're planning to do with your new character yet?

[Vael Nir]

If you can handle a little risk and want to make a bit more money than is usually possible for newbies, you can try and come visit Providence. The alliance I'm in (Curatores Veritatis Alliance - CVA) and allies are the largest NRDS (not red don't shoot) entity in EVE, and hold the 0.0 region Providence. CVA is a Amarr RP (pro slavery, pro law, pro god, pro empire) alliance who try and keep their space free from pirates and terrorists, as well as other 0.0 entities who love to attack us.

In order to "rat" (kill pirate NPCs in belts - battleship rats give good bounty, loot and salvage) you would need at least a t1 cruiser with EM/Thermal hardeners (or shield tank equivalents). New characters would be better off in a BC (my own character is 1 1/2 months old and flies a Myrmidon for this purpose). My corp's (Amarr Border Defence Consortium [AMDEF]) outpost is in BK4-YC, which has a lot of 'roid belts.

The rules are: "chain" properly (you can ask anybody to explain it to you), don't be asleep when hostiles come calling (hide/dock up fast to deny easy kills), don't shoot anybody who isn't already being shot at by us.

We also offer jump clones, contact Takal Cylotar, he can set that up for you. Pirates and other "red" entities need not apply, if you do shoot at other neutrals or us you will be set KOS and podded with great prejudice. :smallcool:

[The Evil Thing]

Uaaah!!! I'm gone for a week and BoB suddenly folds.

What's going on?! :smalleek:

[Vael Nir]

they didn't fold, goonswarm got a director level defector from their managing corp... who then disbanded the alliance, meaning all sov drops because of the delay for forming a new one... bigass fights in Delve at the moment, I'm just watching on the map because I don't really have a stake in it, but it is really fun to read about. :smallsmile: