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View Full Version : One-shot Epic Adventure: Advice?



Hawk7915
2008-11-23, 10:20 PM
So, over Christmas break my group wants a break from the low-level, political intrigue campaign we've been playing since September, and I suggested an "Arena of the Gods" challenge wherein the players have several challenges before eventually being allowed to fight Zeus. Here's the rules:

1. Players will start at 25th ECL. 36 point-buy. 1 million gold pieces can be used to purchase equipment. No single piece of equipment can be more than 25% of total wealth (250,000) total. Any book is allowed.\
2. The arena is a 300x300 (ish) Coliseum that goes 400' high. A "bubble" prevents players from going higher. However, the arena's features may change from fight to fight (lava, a series of tunnels, etc).
3. The rules of the arena are such that players are not allowed followers. Mounts and animal companions, sure, but no cohorts, mercenaries, or other followers can enter the arena.
4. Epic spellcasting is allowed! However, epic casters are allowed to create only one spell, and can receive no help from anyone else in meeting the DC to craft it. (I've never played epic so I don't know if that makes sense. Basically, they can't use fellow team members or an army of solars to make a spell of infinite wishing or anything like that).
5. Speaking of which, leaving the arena during any of the fights is cause for an instant loss. So no planeshift to a personal realm of subjective time, either.
6. The team of heroes is given one night of rest and full healing between matches, and are informed of what they will be facing the night before.
7. Before each match, the team (and their foes) are given 3 turns to buff. Time Stop can not be used during this "warm-up" to have more time.
8. Item creation feats are banned.
9. Death is for real. No resurrection can be used on a teammate, ever. However...
10. Wish/miracle are allowed and can be used to rez a teammate. However, each caster is allowed only 1 wish/miracle for the entire campaign.
11. House rules: For what it's worth, spot and listen are class skills for every class. Also, monks have full BAB.

I have at least 3 players, possibly as much as 7. The only confirmed player is a pure Druid 25. Here are my questions...

- Does this seem fair and fun? Anything I've missed that will make this trivial? Am I cracking down too hard on epic casting and miracle/wish?
- What are some good challenges? My current thoughts were 4 fights before the big man himself, including...

I: 2-3 Balors, for a warm up
II: A savage Tucker's Kobolds maze with a great Wyrm red dragon at the end
III: As it is Greek themed, a heavily modified (Vampirc? Pseudonatural?) 15-headed Cyro-Hydra in a field of ice and freezing water.
IV: A low-level Divine. Hercules or one of the lesser gods, probably.
V: Zeus
- My players suck at optimizing...any advice on how to help them? Maybe some interesting sample builds? This ties into my last question...
- If it were you making the whole team, what (other than 6 clerics to just wish through every fight) would you play? Is it possible for 6 ECL 25 characters to pose a serious threat to Zeus, if he allows himself to be attacked?

Thanks in advance for the help!

Lycan 01
2008-11-23, 10:22 PM
All I can say is this:

I wish I was in your group. :smallbiggrin:


That sounds frickin' awesome! I hope it works out, because it seems like a fun campaign idea.

Vexxation
2008-11-23, 10:28 PM
Well, a team of six wizards, or six druids could probably fare as well as a team of six clerics. I'm just sayin'.

I love the idea, though.
However, bear in mind that not all builds are effective against all things. If they created a team like that one I saw on Gleemax, specializing in massive Fear effects, simple fear-immune enemies pose a challenge.

I'd vary the challenges a lot. It may seem like that 15-headed Cryohydra is a good choice, but when there are six capable attackers all targeting it at once... death ensues.

Also, beware the Sarrukh and the Omnicificer.

Hm... I wonder if the Omnicificer could actually kill Zeus. Interesting thought experiment, right there.

Hawk7915
2008-11-23, 10:33 PM
Yeah, like I said I could use some advice on making more interesting and sincerely challenging encounters :smallbiggrin:.

And my group isn't much for optimizing, but as DM I'd reserve the right to ban any obvious cheese I know of like Pun-pun, the planet-throwing Hulking Hurler, or the infinite damage crusader. Powerful stuff like IotSFV or Ubercharger is expected and wanted...but no instant win buttons.

Lycan 01
2008-11-23, 10:36 PM
Wait...

I've got it...



A Gazebo. :smallcool:



No really, have a Gazebo in the middle of the arena with some fair maidens around it. Have them think the challenge is to woo the maidens or something. Then, when they approach, the gazebo devours the maidens and then sets its sights on the party. :smallamused:

Flickerdart
2008-11-23, 10:55 PM
Wait...

I've got it...



A Gazebo. :smallcool:



No really, have a Gazebo in the middle of the arena with some fair maidens around it. Have them think the challenge is to woo the maidens or something. Then, when they approach, the gazebo devours the maidens and then sets its sights on the party. :smallamused:
No, that's too complex. Leave it as just a Gazebo.

Then if they ignore it, 20 Awakened Gazebos crest the hill.

CthulhuM
2008-11-23, 11:05 PM
The closest thing I've done to this power level was a 17th level gestalt one-shot, and, while it was interesting, it's not something I'd do again. Each individual character simply became too complex, and combat took a ridiculously long time to resolve. My character, for example, was a factotum/fiendbinder//archivist (more or less, there was some complicated shuffling involved to keep my caster level maxed). I had up to 9th level spells drawn from the cleric, druid, shugenja and various domain spell lists. I had 3 bound demons (specifically a marilith, a horned devil, and a cauchemar nightmare to ride), each with their own set of spell-like abilities, attacks, and defenses, and with their own rules for controlling them provided by the fiendbinder levels. Oh, and I had various factotum abilities (including some sorcerer/wizard spells, the ability to ignore SR, and the ability to take several extra standard actions every combat).

To say my turns were a bit complicated to manage is something of an understatement, and there were others even more ridiculous (like the TWF psion/warblade who would use temporal acceleration in order to fission himself, have himself and his clone full attack then have his clone white raven tactics him so he could full attack again and use white raven tactics on his clone to give him another full attack.) Oh, and there was a wizard 17/archivist 17 with a staff of time stop. Enough said.

So, yeah, interesting, but not always fun.

That said, if you are going through with it, I'd suggest following the suggestion in the DMG to increase the cost of consumable items by a factor of 5 if you're running a one-shot rather than an ongoing campaign, using some sort of homebrew to restrict shapechange (hurray for 9 great mother beholder eyebeams as a free action every round!), possibly implementing a time limit on individual turns, banning celerity and its ilk, and considering allowing revivify to work for reviving people, because death really can come pretty much instantaneously at these power levels.

Oh, and if your players aren't all that great at optimizing... good. Don't give them too much help and the result might actually be a reasonably manageable party.

EDIT: Oh, and if you're looking for ideas of what to throw at them... well, the epic level handbook is all in the SRD. I'd start relatively simple, though, say with something like a devastation vermin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/devastationVermin.htm).

Lappy9000
2008-11-23, 11:14 PM
No, that's too complex. Leave it as just a Gazebo.

Then if they ignore it, 20 Awakened Gazebos crest the hill.

Still too complex.

Normal gazebo in an Urban Oasis (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4959611&postcount=12) :smallwink:

Hawk7915
2008-11-24, 11:41 PM
Some cool suggestions so far; I like the Vermin though the CR seems quite terrifying. Here are my new thoughts...

Round 1: For Our First Trick: - 2 Balors. Easy, but its a chance for them to warm up and learn how to use their god-like powers. The arena is covered in lava, however, so positioning is going to be key.

Round 2: Nothing You Possess... - A giant, maze-like tower full of bizarre, lethal traps and tricks. A fellow group of adventurers will be competing to make it to the center for the "token" and victory.

Round 3: Choices, Choices - The party is forced to do things two-on-one, wrestling style, against a wide range of classic monsters: A drow ranger, a beholder, a dragon, some sort of high-level ghost, etc. They can tag people in and folks on the sidelines can buff and heal others on the outside or do sneaky stuff to help, and each party member can only be in the arena twice.

Round 4: A Bugs Life - 5 Devastation vermin. The goal is not to win; the goal is to last 10 turns. Bonus points for each vermin killed.

Round 5: Hercules! Hercules! - fight Hercules, who has some support in a wild and bizarre stadium setup for lots of chances at terrain use.

Round 6: The End of the Line - Zeus.

Round 7: BONUS: Eternal Reward - if the team somehow, someway beats Zeus, they get the reward of Godhood. Only one may be rewarded, however...so the team can either surrender, or fight to the death. Good times.

Interesting enough, or does it need more work?

Shosuro Ishii
2008-11-25, 12:26 AM
- If it were you making the whole team, what (other than 6 clerics to just wish through every fight) would you play? Is it possible for 6 ECL 25 characters to pose a serious threat to Zeus, if he allows himself to be attacked?

Thanks in advance for the help!

6 wizards, each built around having the highest spellcrafting check possible:smalltongue:.

The issue with fighting Gods, is that most of them have access to no save death effects, and Zues in paticular has that nasty ability that conjures animated beasts everytime he bleeds, so really, I can't think of an any man team that could beat him, assuming no insta death cheese (1d2 crusader, Pun-Pun).

Curmudgeon
2008-11-25, 09:32 AM
I think having the same amount of money per character is unfair. I suggest boosting the amount by 1% per rank in Sleight of Hand (to represent "opportunistic earning"), except for those characters who are Lawful in alignment. Seriously, what self-respecting Rogue is going to earn only as much as their other-class colleagues? As Rogues are very item-dependent, this gives them a chance to compete. And a sneak attack specialist (with Penetrating Strike and weapon augment crystals for those normally immune) should make things interesting, plus give your party a chance to survive any traps.

Glimbur
2008-11-25, 04:08 PM
1 million is actually significantly below WBL for 25th level characters.

Consider the spells Revenance, which is a lot like a temporary Resurrection, and Revivify, which is Raise Dead with no level loss at 5th level... but only works the turn after they die. To fit your theme you should also ban Revivify.

Watch those Epic Spells like a hawk.

mostlyharmful
2008-11-25, 06:00 PM
I think having the same amount of money per character is unfair.

This is 3.5, if you start awarding power (ie money) to the PCs on the basis of who's most useful/able to aquire it the non-casters don't get a look in. For every rank in sleight of hand your rogue might have my wizard can have a bound earth elemental harvesting diamands the size of your head on a daily basis, or a bound efreet chain-wishing for nigh infinate wealth. WBL is in place for a reason in 3.5, keeping the money down to just 1million is just a good idea.