Does anyone feel that the Oracle's prophecy has diffused any dramatic tension

[Mc. Lovin']

... in the current strip?

We have two predictions so far that effect the current events, the most obvious being
Belkar will draw his last breath-ever-before the end of the year
Belkar has to die before the end of the comic year. Now he's facing a Strongish looking rogue, a rogue/bard/sorcerer, and a wizard(?)

As well as Crystal, a level 14ish Rogue/Assasin and Bozzock, who is at least 4 levels higher than Haley (and him)

Also;

Elan's question (will I have a happy ending)
Yes, for you at least

For Elan to have a happy ending Haley pretty much as to live (I know she could get raised too, but for that to happen she needs one living person to take her there, and if Death's Jester is about to bite the dust, then she *has* to live. (I'm not gonna count Celia here, she has a very small chance of finsing them, and a story about only one living person dragging corpses around the land looking for a Cleric doesn't seem like a good one.

tl;dr:

Belkar will die
and Haley will live

Because the Oracle said so

[Kaihaku]

I don't think Rich is that predictable and there are tons of threads on this sort of thing already.

Belkar would die here if this was a Hollywood production but it isn't. I think there's something else in store, part of me wonders if Belker is going to pretend to play the game his way into sacrificing himself later in some grand scene. I believe, personally, that the Order of the Stick will be united at least one last time before members start dying off.

On another note, do we have any idea how close the end of the year is?

[ErrantMage]

The oracles words are always twisted. He merely answers the question like a giant magic 8 ball. When B asked his question about who would be kill the results were all vague until he killed the oracle, which was remedied quickly.

If everything the oracle said was true, then he should have had his birthday before his death and its only been 4 months-5months since the prediction, not exactly looking like his death is on hand.

[Mc. Lovin']

The oracles words are always twisted. He merely answers the question like a giant magic 8 ball. When B asked his question about who would be kill the results were all vague until he killed the oracle, which was remedied quickly.

If everything the oracle said was true, then he should have had his birthday before his death and its only been 4 months-5months since the prediction, not exactly looking like his death is on hand.

I'll give you that the original answers were vauge, but you can't say that "Belkar will be dead by the end of the year" is as ambiguous as "yes"

Also, I think the birthday comment was sort of throwaway, not literally meaning that we will see an in-comic birthday party for Belkar.

[Tempest Fennac]

The Wizard is Chuck the Arcane Trickster. If you're not familiar with D&D, it's a Prestiege Class for Rogue/Arcane casters. Assuming Chick is a Wizard rather then a Sorcerer, we know he was at level 6 several months before the comment started due to a comment on how he only needed 2 more levels before he stopped being useless. The lowest level requirements for that PrC is Rogue 3/Wizard 5/

I agree with the idea that the Order will get back together before Belkar dies for good as well (it would give him more of a chance for fake character development).

[ErrantMage]

Sorry for the confusion, birthday party or not #572 said end of the in-comic year, and before that it was 'savor his last birthday cake'. Also note that it in dramatic fashion it says '-ever-' meaning no resurrection.

It just doesn't seem like it would end for him now.

Oh... and I'd love to see an Elan birthday party. Lol.:smallsmile:

[TengYt]

On the other hand, the Oracle never explicately said Belkar would "die". Granted, from what he said that seems to be the case, but you never know...

[NerfTW]

... in the current strip?

We have two predictions so far that effect the current events, the most obvious being
Belkar will draw his last breath-ever-before the end of the year
Belkar has to die before the end of the comic year. Now he's facing a Strongish looking rogue, a rogue/bard/sorcerer, and a wizard(?)

As well as Crystal, a level 14ish Rogue/Assasin and Bozzock, who is at least 4 levels higher than Haley (and him)



You are choosing to assume that this is the battle Belkar dies in. That's your own problem, not Rich's, for "diffusing any dramatic tension". Why would Belkar have a major character change and then die? It would be ridiculous and anti-climatic. The "end of the year" is in comic, not December 31st, 2008 in real time. For all we know, they could have plenty of stories between now and the end of the current in comic year.

As for Haley, we only know she has to survive at the end. She can still die and be resurrected in that time.

[TengYt]

That's a good point. We have no idea how long comic time will be. Belkar could still be around for hundreds of strips for all we know. Remember how long the Battle of Azure City took? All that was just one day! Just Belkar is gonna die, it doesn't mean he'll be gone anytime soon.

[TheRagi]

Well, there's a hint that is almost never mentioned, while Ghost Roy is talking with the Oracle (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0572.html).

"Shouldacheckedamap".

Should've checked a map. I guess this means Belkar will be lost or something just before he dies.

[TengYt]

No, that's to do with the village that the Oracle founded just to get at Belkar. Presumably, if Belkar checked a map he'd have noticed the Oracle lived in an urban area.

[DigoDragon]

On the other hand, the Oracle never explicately said Belkar would "die". Granted, from what he said that seems to be the case, but you never know...

True, just he'll draw his last breath. That could be as silly simple as a magic item that removes the need to breathe anymore. That's probably not it, but just as an example on how open ended the prophesy is. :smallsmile:

[SPoD]

Regarding prophecies and unexpected twists, a word about Rich's self-proclaimed favorite TV series ever, Babylon 5 (major spoilers for that series, not OOTS, ahead):

One of the recurring themes throughout the series is a vision of the space station that the show takes place on exploding in flames while a single shuttlecraft escapes. The first captain of the series is given this vision by an alien seeress, and we see bits of it again and again. Throughout, they occasionally refer to it, and worry if NOW is the time that the station will be destroyed, especially when the Big Bads show up on their doorstep. But it doesn't happen, and they are left wondering when it will come to pass.

In the last episode of the series, it's 25 years later and the station has been so wildly successful in its mission of peace and diplomacy that it's literally not needed anymore; the major alien races have come together into a Federation-style alliance, so they don't need "neutral ground" to meet at. It is decommissioned and rather than leave it floating dead in space to be a hazard to navigation, they demolish it. The single shuttle "escaping" contains the last guy who pulled the switch and the main character, who was visiting it nostalgically one last time. Rather than being a bad thing, the destruction of the station marks the beginning of centuries of peace between different worlds.

My point? You can have a prophecy that SEEMS like doom and gloom, chaos and death and foregone conclusions...and when it actually comes to pass, it is turned completely on its head. So don't assume that knowing WHAT is going to happen negates the need to see HOW it happens.

[Traker]

No, that's to do with the village that the Oracle founded just to get at Belkar. Presumably, if Belkar checked a map he'd have noticed the Oracle lived in an urban area.

You I think are right.

[HealthKit]

I don't think he'll die any time in the near future. Before the end of the year maybe, but not just after he had an epiphany of sorts.

I don't know how high of a level the rogues that are trying to bust in are, but from what I've gathered they might not be so powerful due to multiclassing.
On the other hand, the Belkster is fairly high level and is rather prone to murderous violence.

Me, I'm not worried about the little guy.

[Yoyoyo]

To quote the Giant SPoD has it right again. The prophecy surrounding everyone only creates confusion that, if anything, adds to the dramatic tension. Something along the lines of, "How will the Giant get around this scene and still hold true to the prophecy?"

And this is only an issue because we have time in between comics to reflect on what is going to happen. I can only speak for myself, but I wasn't thinking about the prophecy as I breathlessly read the last comic. If (when) Belkar dies, it will still come as a surprise as far as the timing and method.

[Quorothorn]

I'll give you that the original answers were vauge, but you can't say that "Belkar will be dead by the end of the year" is as ambiguous as "yes".

Except that's not what the little orange fellow said. He said Belkar would "draw his last breath". Does Xykon "breathe"? Apparently not.

[Scion_of_Darkness]

The question is, which year is he referring to? Is it the standard Northern Calendar or the Southern Calendar. In the case of the Northern Calendar, Belkar has less time to live. In strip 302 we learn that the Northern calendar is a "few months" ahead of the Southern version. And in 498 we learn that about three and a half months have passed since the Southern New Year.

[Hydro Globus]

Erm sorry...

...but what does tl;dr: mean?

[Hydro Globus]

On another note, do we have any idea how close the end of the year is?

New Year's Eve wasn't long ago... But there was a 2-months timeskip too... I think it might be mid-April. By the Southern Calendar.

Also: He might be referring to the Western Calendar... After all, he worships Tiamat.

[Texas Jedi]

I don't think so. This comic has been the first one in a long time since I was on the edge of my seat just wondering what would happen next. The last time I felt this on edge was towards the tail end of the Azure City siege (with Miko escaping). The time before that when Elan escaped from Cliffport.

I think we are going to see some stabbity stabbity from the Belkster and most of the guild won't know what hit them.

[Koshiro]

You are choosing to assume that this is the battle Belkar dies in. That's your own problem, not Rich's, for "diffusing any dramatic tension". Why would Belkar have a major character change and then die? It would be ridiculous and anti-climatic.
Quoted for truth.

[Mc. Lovin']

Spoilered for size


You are choosing to assume that this is the battle Belkar dies in. That's your own problem, not Rich's

I never said it was Rich's problem, or anyone's problem that I feel the Oracle's recent prediction was a mistake (I'm sure Rich can take criticism). I'm also sure that, if he actually reads this thread he won't give a rats ass what I think, much like he did for all the anti-miko and anti-cryptogram threads.


For "diffusing any dramatic tension". Why would Belkar have a major character change and then die?

That's totally something he would do. Not following conventions. Also, Belkar's death was set up round-about the beginning of this book's arc. Assuming Rich is now writing with an aim for the comic's to be in a book then each compilation needs it's own little plots, and whilst prophesies like the original ones could easily last until the end of the comic, something like that will only last one arc (much like Therkla did)


It would be ridiculous and anti-climatic. The "end of the year" is in comic, not December 31st, 2008 in real time.(I didn't claim that it was) For all we know, they could have plenty of stories between now and the end of the current in comic year.

This "book" is already reaching it's climax, and currently stands at 125 comics, whilst "War and Exp's" was ... 183. Okay, I admit there's still around 50 strips left, we still need to Raise Roy, and find out what's going on with V.


As for Haley, we only know she has to survive at the end. She can still die and be resurrected in that time.

Because of the reasons I explained in the original post, Haley *must* survive, because even if we leave Belkar alive I don't think that him and Celia could get Roy and Haley's corpses back to Durkon.


Regarding prophecies and unexpected twists, a word about Rich's self-proclaimed favorite TV series ever, Babylon 5 (major spoilers for that series, not OOTS, ahead):

One of the recurring themes throughout the series is a vision of the space station that the show takes place on exploding in flames while a single shuttlecraft escapes. The first captain of the series is given this vision by an alien seeress, and we see bits of it again and again. Throughout, they occasionally refer to it, and worry if NOW is the time that the station will be destroyed, especially when the Big Bads show up on their doorstep. But it doesn't happen, and they are left wondering when it will come to pass.

In the last episode of the series, it's 25 years later and the station has been so wildly successful in its mission of peace and diplomacy that it's literally not needed anymore; the major alien races have come together into a Federation-style alliance, so they don't need "neutral ground" to meet at. It is decommissioned and rather than leave it floating dead in space to be a hazard to navigation, they demolish it. The single shuttle "escaping" contains the last guy who pulled the switch and the main character, who was visiting it nostalgically one last time. Rather than being a bad thing, the destruction of the station marks the beginning of centuries of peace between different worlds.

My point? You can have a prophecy that SEEMS like doom and gloom, chaos and death and foregone conclusions...and when it actually comes to pass, it is turned completely on its head. So don't assume that knowing WHAT is going to happen negates the need to see HOW it happens.

Hmm, okay, but that was a random prophesy, no?

Both times B's death has been hinted at the Oracle chose to tell us, and the Oracle's personality makes me feel like she wouldn't of out of her way to simply vaguely hint at something that isn't really a death. Her dislike of Belkar makes me think that she would definitely not lie about this.


Except that's not what the little orange fellow said. He said Belkar would "draw his last breath". Does Xykon "breathe"? Apparently not.

My knowledge of Lich's isn't great, but there are a few things that make me think that he wont be turning into one of them

For one thing, they'd have to know someone who could do it
Another, aren't Liches casters?
I dont think that Durkon would mong around with a Lich, Chaotic Evil ally or not.
And finally, whilst I said he was going to die, I didn't say he wasn't comming back :smallwink:


I don't think so. This comic has been the first one in a long time since I was on the edge of my seat just wondering what would happen next. The last time I felt this on edge was towards the tail end of the Azure City siege (with Miko escaping). The time before that when Elan escaped from Cliffport.

I think we are going to see some stabbity stabbity from the Belkster and most of the guild won't know what hit them.

Oh I aint saying he's not going down without a fight, I'm sure whatever ending he gets is going to be kick ass, and it would totally suck if he died straight away, which he wont. He's going to be a sort of hero, I think. Taking most of the guild down with him, but I can't see him beating Bozzok and Crystal


Erm sorry...

...but what does tl;dr: mean?

Too long; Didn't read :smallsmile:

It's sort of like reading that (Harry potter spoilers; Snape kills Dumbledoor). Sure, it's disappointing to find out, and you know what's going to happen (ergo, loss of dramatic tension), but I'll be damned if it weren't a kick ass fight.

[NerfTW]

I never said it was Rich's problem, or anyone's problem that I feel the Oracle's recent prediction was a mistake (I'm sure Rich can take criticism). I'm also sure that, if he actually reads this thread he won't give a rats ass what I think, much like he did for all the anti-miko and anti-cryptogram threads.



That's totally something he would do. Not following conventions. Also, Belkar's death was set up round-about the beginning of this book's arc. Assuming Rich is now writing with an aim for the comic's to be in a book then each compilation needs it's own little plots, and whilst prophesies like the original ones could easily last until the end of the comic, something like that will only last one arc (much like Therkla did)


You said that the prophecy diffused the tension. I said it's your problem, because you are choosing to interpret it as Belkar dying in this battle, whereas most people understand that there's a possibility that Belkar can survive until well into the strip's run. There's nothing saying he has to die by the end of this book. Durkon and Elan's prophecies have both gone for more than two books now. There are many "little plots" per book. Just as there are many ongoing plots.

The only reason there's no dramatic tension is because you are assuming you know exactly what will happen. And there's a massive difference between "defying convention" and throwing a big "screw you" to the audience by hand waving away something he took two whole strips to set up.

[hungryLIKEALION]

Just because the prophecy that Belkar would die was made at the beginning of this book doesn't mean he has to die in this book. Like you said, some storylines can go across books. Why can't this be one of them? I certainly think it can.

I don't believe Belkar will die here, and I don't see why Haley couldn't die. Celia and Belkar could get her and Roy to Durkon, or just hunker down and wait for Durkon to show up. He should be on his way soon, since he's getting the sending now.

[Roderick_BR]

tl;dr:

Belkar will die
and Haley will live

Because the Oracle said so
Even then, we learned that the Oracle is not fully trusthwort, or at least, there are ways to twist things around, so the "dramatic tension" is still there.

[Mc. Lovin']

You said that the prophecy diffused the tension. I said it's your problem, because you are choosing to interpret it as Belkar dying in this battle, whereas most people understand that there's a possibility that Belkar can survive until well into the strip's run. There's nothing saying he has to die by the end of this book. Durkon and Elan's prophecies have both gone for more than two books now. There are many "little plots" per book. Just as there are many ongoing plots.

The only reason there's no dramatic tension is because you are assuming you know exactly what will happen. And there's a massive difference between "defying convention" and throwing a big "screw you" to the audience by hand waving away something he took two whole strips to set up.

Again, there's a difference between assuming someone will die and being explicitly told someone will die by a proven factual source.

However, I will stop bothering to argue my point, so as to lessen the chance of this thread sinking further into the flames.

[NerfTW]

I haven't seen any flames. I used "problem" to mean that it wasn't a fault of the plot, but your preconceived notions.

The Oracle did not explicitly say that THIS is the battle Belkar shall die in. You are assuming that based on what you think is going to happen. Belkar CAN still survive this battle, only to die in a later one. Perhaps involving V's return, or the "large price" someone is going to pay to bring Roy back.

Further, Haley can be the one who dies in this battle, with Crystal and Belkar bringing hers and Roy's corpses to Durkon to be raised. Or V can show up now and end it all by remembering the amulet and thinking to scry for Celia just in case.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

The Oracle made a big fouth wall break to assure the audience that the prophecy's time limit was based on the in-comic year. I take that as an indication that Rich doesn't figure on Belkar's permanent death occuring within the real world 2008. I mean, why else draw attention the distinction? It seems to me that that was meant to assure Belkar's fans that we still had a lot of time left with the Sexy, Shoeless God of War.

And, really, what would be the dramatic purpose of this recent epiphany if he were to be removed from the picture as soon as he had it?

[Kurald Galain]

To the OP -

No. It's called foreshadowing. Besides, beware of plot twists.

[Trazoi]

While I'm fairly sure Belkar will die (the prophecy was pretty explicit), there's a good chance that won't happen until the final battle of the comic. The timing and cause of Belkar's death is very much an open question.

I'm not expecting Belkar to die in the upcoming fight - I'm still open to it happening, but I'd be surprised. Belkar's just had some character development, and we're yet to see it in action. It would be a shock for Belkar to get cut down just when he's entered a new phase. I'd expect some interaction between him and the rest of the OotS gang first.

I also think Haley's permanent death is unlikely, unless Elan has a change of heart about their relationship. If she dies now, she's virtually guaranteed to be back.

[NerfTW]

Further, to disprove the "It's a one book story arc" theory, it should be noted that the "Belkar has less than a year to live" prophecy was stated way back in #329 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0329.html).

[Mc. Lovin']

I haven't seen any flames. I used "problem" to mean that it wasn't a fault of the plot, but your preconceived notions.

The Oracle did not explicitly say that THIS is the battle Belkar shall die in. You are assuming that based on what you think is going to happen. Belkar CAN still survive this battle, only to die in a later one. Perhaps involving V's return, or the "large price" someone is going to pay to bring Roy back.

But you're saying that I randomly decided that he was going to die because he was predicted to do so, and I saw that he was in a battle. I have gone over a list of reasons including:

The insurmountable odds of the fight, not only being 1 vs 5, but at least one of the 5 is 4 levels higher than he is.
The logical conclusion of the story arc
and finally the Oracle's profecy to back it up


Further, Haley can be the one who dies in this battle, with Crystal and Belkar bringing hers and Roy's corpses to Durkon to be raised. Or V can show up now and end it all by remembering the amulet and thinking to scry for Celia just in case.

And as I explained in my earlier points (all of which you have seemed to miss bar "the oracle done a prophesy") is that it would make a really bad story, and Rich wouldn't tell one like it.

On the amulet (I was just re-reading the book), and I'm pretty sure that no-one apart from Roy knew what it was. Halye set it off by accident, at least.


Further, to disprove the "It's a one book story arc" theory, it should be noted that the "Belkar has less than a year to live" prophecy was stated way back in #329 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0329.html).

You can hardly compare a small hint about birthday cakes to what the Oracle did in the previous prediction. Rich clearly set this up as a plot for the latest book, which needs to be wrapped up in the next 50 or so strips.

And even if it was hinted at in WaExps I think that this was just Rich planning out his future plotlines, which will all converge at different points. (Hell, if "Disintergrate, Gust of Wind" wasn't V's then we still have a few to go)

[Trazoi]

Further, to disprove the "It's a one book story arc" theory, it should be noted that the "Belkar has less than a year to live" prophecy was stated way back in #329 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0329.html).
That was a "Belkar has less than two years to live" hint. :smallsmile: The Oracle told Belkar he should "savour his next birthday cake", implying Belkar would see his next birthday but not the next. Since we don't know when Belkar's birthday is, that gives him anywhere between a day (if his birthday was the next day) to nearly two years (if his birthday was the previous day).

And of course, the Oracle wasn't speaking on the record then. :smallwink:

[NerfTW]

No, what I'm saying is that your opening statement, that there is no chance Belkar will survive this battle, is flawed, since even with those odds, there is still suspense over whether he will survive or not, given the fact that many people are arguing that they don't think he will die now.

You may be positive you're right, but the very fact that people are arguing with you means there IS dramatic tension, since there are so many ways for this battle to end.

[David Argall]

New Year's Eve wasn't long ago... But there was a 2-months timeskip too... I think it might be mid-April. By the Southern Calendar.

The current date is around October 1 by the Southern Calendar.

The party leaves Azure City January 1 to visit the Oracle. The journey may take less than a day. As they camp afterwards, Nale tells them to be in Cliffport on Tuesday. They thus return to Azure City and teleport to Cliffport in less than a week. Possibly the next day. So Jan 2-15, they reach Cliffport.
Sabine takes 3-4 days to fly to Azure City. The next day Elan rejoins the party. The following day, Miko offs Shojo. The battle is the following day.
So we are Jan 8-22 when the party wakes up in the morning. Say Jan 15.
Roy discovers he has been dead for 103 days, and then runs down the mountain for 9 days to watch the marriage. That's May 7 or so.
We are told Kazumi is 8 weeks on, so she was knocked up about about March 20. She later talks of 6 months of hemroids, which are not common in early pregnancy. That makes a date of not earlier than Sept 20, and other pregnancy clues argue for at least that date.
Haley hung around in the basement for a week thereafter, which makes the current date at least September 27 and does not rule out a date in November.


Also: He might be referring to the Western Calendar... After all, he worships Tiamat.
True enough, but he lives in Southern lands, and so the default is that he follows the Southern calendar.
While the Oracle can be criticized for giving useless predictions, his predictions to date have been entirely correct and not tricky. So when he gives a date, that is a date the customer would understand, not one based on a random calendar.

[Hydro Globus]

You make good points... Also, I did not remember the half year skip (the one evidenced by the pregnancy).

[SPoD]

The question is, which year is he referring to? Is it the standard Northern Calendar or the Southern Calendar. In the case of the Northern Calendar, Belkar has less time to live.

Not necessarily; if according to David Argall's calculations, it's around October 1st on the Southern Calendar, then Belkar may have a LOT more time to live if the Oracle was using the Northern Calendar...because the Northern New Year may have already happened!

Think of it this way: If the Northern Calendar is 4 months ahead of the Southern, then October 1st on the Southern Calendar is February 1st on the Northern Calendar. If Northern New Year happened just before the Oracle's prediction about Belkar's death, then he has about 11 months left. And unlike the Western Calendar, it makes sense for the Oracle to give it to Roy in Northern Time, since he is a Northerner.

[Darth Stick]

Well, the name of strip 611 was "None Left Standing," which would certainly imply everyone being dead, yet Jenny was not standing, but definitely alive. If there is some way The Giant can twist the "Last breath - ever -" to be something besides what everyone expects it to be, I'm sure he will. Especially if it can be funny and poke fun at folks who talk too much on these forums at the same time!

[Sir_Elderberry]

I'd be completely unsurprised if Belkar gets a "Screw Destiny" plot and the prophecy never happens, even.

[dps]

Erm sorry...

...but what does tl;dr: mean?

And what does "finsing" mean?

[ZtM]

Erm sorry...

...but what does tl;dr: mean?

It stands for "too long; didn't read". It's generally posted as a rude response to exceptionally long posts, similar to the older tradition of posting "wall of text". Since this practice has become commonplace, many people making exceptionally long posts or arguments will include a "tl;dr" summary at the end of their post for readers with little patience, which is how the term was used here. I'm not exactly sure the original post here was long enough to warrant such a summary though.

[Kroy]

To the OP -

No. It's called foreshadowing. Besides, beware of plot twists.
That's all I can say, I have been tricked many times before in similar circumstances.

[TigerHunter]

No. Belkar won't die here because it's too easy. Or at least, he won't die until after everyone thinks the OotS has won.

[Spiky]

For Elan to have a happy ending Haley pretty much as to live

You seem to like making wild assumptions and then backing them up with....the same assumptions. The Oracle has you. Completely at his mercy. You will be fooled.

(although you could try dangling him out a window, I hear it might clarify)

[Jubal_Barca]

I predict Belkar will survive, and that Elan's happy ending will be dead in Chaotic Good heaven gone to meet long dead Haley.

[Mordos]

or maybe the oraacle means the "old" belkar will die and a "new" belkar with fake character growth will replace him in a sense.





probalbly not but thats just what i think :smalltongue:

[multilis]

Mr. Scruffy is Emperor Palpatine. Beklar is his future Darth #2. Oracle's prophesy is just a trick to help bring him to the dark side for good, after the Skywalker disaster, Palpatine isn't taking chances anymore.

[Arachu]

... What if Belkar ascends and becomes an actual god? :smalleek:

... Or, what if he dies, and is then Raised as some kind of undead? :xykon:

... *gasp* or what if he DE-scends and becomes an actual avatar of death!? :smallbiggrin:

... Or what if he becomes A ROBOT!?!

... OR A WERE-SEA-ANIMAL!?

... OR A LIVING STATUE OR SOME KIND!?

... WHAT IF HIS LUNGS ARE TORN OUT AND HE LIVES DUE TO SOME MAGICAL INTERFERENCE!? :vaarsuvius:

WHAT IF HE SWAPS MINDS WITH AN ELEMENTAL!?!?!

... I... May have gotten a little carried away :smallredface:

On a side note, how do you make a Spoiler?

[Kish]

On a side note, how do you make a Spoiler?
[ spoiler] [/spoiler] , without the space after the first bracket.

Also: Belkar's going to die and not come back, within an in-comic year, but probably not in Greysky City.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

[ spoiler] [/spoiler] , without the space after the first bracket.
On that note, there's also the tag set, which allows you to write out the entire code without having to resort to things like gratuitous spaces.

Observe:

This is a noparsed spoiler!

[Surfing HalfOrc]

The current date is around October 1 by the Southern Calendar.

The party leaves Azure City January 1 to visit the Oracle. The journey may take less than a day. As they camp afterwards, Nale tells them to be in Cliffport on Tuesday. They thus return to Azure City and teleport to Cliffport in less than a week. Possibly the next day. So Jan 2-15, they reach Cliffport.
Sabine takes 3-4 days to fly to Azure City. The next day Elan rejoins the party. The following day, Miko offs Shojo. The battle is the following day.
So we are Jan 8-22 when the party wakes up in the morning. Say Jan 15.
Roy discovers he has been dead for 103 days, and then runs down the mountain for 9 days to watch the marriage. That's May 7 or so.
We are told Kazumi is 8 weeks on, so she was knocked up about about March 20. She later talks of 6 months of hemroids, which are not common in early pregnancy. That makes a date of not earlier than Sept 20, and other pregnancy clues argue for at least that date.
Haley hung around in the basement for a week thereafter, which makes the current date at least September 27 and does not rule out a date in November.


True enough, but he lives in Southern lands, and so the default is that he follows the Southern calendar.
While the Oracle can be criticized for giving useless predictions, his predictions to date have been entirely correct and not tricky. So when he gives a date, that is a date the customer would understand, not one based on a random calendar.

Are you sure the Southern Lands New Year starts on January 1? Having lived in Hawaii for quite some time, I learned that Chinese (Lunar) New Year usually falls somewhere between late January and mid February, which moves your timeline back by one to one and a half months. I was estimating that it is currently mid/late November, or even early December. Thus, leaving Belkar less than 45 days on this mortal coil.

[Captain Six]

Well, the name of strip 611 was "None Left Standing," which would certainly imply everyone being dead, yet Jenny was not standing, but definitely alive. If there is some way The Giant can twist the "Last breath - ever -" to be something besides what everyone expects it to be, I'm sure he will. Especially if it can be funny and poke fun at folks who talk too much on these forums at the same time!

That's one of the reasons I personally think he's going to die. The oracle was pretty blunt with the prophesy yet I see theories pop up on how Belkar will get around it, either it's a metaphor, he becomes undead or turns into an outsider. Yes it's possible for Belkar to fulfill the prophesy and live but so many people try to push that possibility from every angle. I can see ANY arist caving in and playing it out as it says on the tin even if the plan was otherwise and the Giant has made it clear that it's a weakness for him already.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Are you sure the Southern Lands New Year starts on January 1? Having lived in Hawaii for quite some time, I learned that Chinese (Lunar) New Year usually falls somewhere between late January and mid February, which moves your timeline back by one to one and a half months. I was estimating that it is currently mid/late November, or even early December. Thus, leaving Belkar less than 45 days on this mortal coil.
He's using "January 1" as a relative term. The Southern Calendar isn't likely to start the new year in the middle of whatever passes for a month. So it's January 1 by the Southern Calendar, which could be April 15 by the Northern Calendar, June 8 by the Western Calendar, October 9 by the Mountain Goblins of Southeastern Nowhere Calendar, and so on.


repeat post
Y'know there is a "Delete Post" button on the Edit page. Comes in handy when you have accidental double posts.

[David Argall]

Are you sure the Southern Lands New Year starts on January 1?

I am almost certain it doesn't, or rather that they don't call it January 1. It is pretty standard for any fantasy world to make up or steal names of months or such to add to the color. Just gets in the way if you ask me, but my record in marketing doesn't exactly denounce them as idiots for not doing so.
But however you divide a year, the year is presumed to start with the New Year celebration and when somebody says "before the year is out", they are presumed to mean before the next new year celebration. So we can use a real world calendar to measure the time passing in our fantasy world. When we talk of Roy's 112 days in the sky and Lady Kato's 6+ months of pregnancy, etc, we can say that 270-300 days out of a presumed 365 have passed or we can say that it is now some time in October. Either way, Belkar is not somebody you want to sell life insurance to.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

I am almost certain it doesn't, or rather that they don't call it January 1. It is pretty standard for any fantasy world to make up or steal names of months or such to add to the color. Just gets in the way if you ask me, but my record in marketing doesn't exactly denounce them as idiots for not doing so.
But however you divide a year, the year is presumed to start with the New Year celebration and when somebody says "before the year is out", they are presumed to mean before the next new year celebration. So we can use a real world calendar to measure the time passing in our fantasy world. When we talk of Roy's 112 days in the sky and Lady Kato's 6+ months of pregnancy, etc, we can say that 270-300 days out of a presumed 365 have passed or we can say that it is now some time in October. Either way, Belkar is not somebody you want to sell life insurance to.

I just wonder if that will be part of the "twist" in the story.
Haley, Celia or even Belkar might say something about it being New Year's Eve (Northern), with Belkar hale and hearty the following morning. Then when everybody on the forums freaks, then settles down, the Southern Lands New Year begins, and Belkar gets run over by a run-away dancing dragon! When you mentioned that the Oracle is based in the Southern Lands, it got me to thinking about Gregoran vs. Lunar calendars.

[TheBlackArcher]

Has anyone considered that the oracle was just lying to piss Belkar off? Sure it would be a HUGE anti-climax but it is a comic, not a serious novel. Anyways, I hope Belkar DOESN'T DIE!

[DBJack]

Has anyone considered that the oracle was just lying to piss Belkar off? Sure it would be a HUGE anti-climax but it is a comic, not a serious novel. Anyways, I hope Belkar DOESN'T DIE!

Why? Belkar doesn't know. He was told when the Oracle wasn't in a trance, and consequently forgot about it upon leaving th valley. Roy was reminded, so he can probably tell Belkar once (if) he gets raised.

[TheBlackArcher]

Well, who said the oracle's predictions are 100% accurate. I really don't think predicting the future should be 100% accurate. Watch Back to the Future, Belkar can carve his own destiny lol.

[littlequietguy]

For Elan to have a happy ending Haley pretty much as to live

Not neccesarily. What if he there's some touchy death were realizes that Haley would have wanted him to remember her death but still be happy and live past her... and maybe even love again..................................?
Although we can play the not neccesarily game all day.:smallamused:

[David Argall]

Has anyone considered that the oracle was just lying to piss Belkar off? Sure it would be a HUGE anti-climax but it is a comic, not a serious novel. Anyways, I hope Belkar DOESN'T DIE!

That you hope such is a reason you should expect such to not happen. You know yourself to be a biased judge.

The idea that the Oracle is lying is quite common among Belkar fans, but the Oracle's job, both within the story and when talking to us, requires a high degree of truth. One had best assume the Oracle is telling the truth.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

Well, who said the oracle's predictions are 100% accurate. I really don't think predicting the future should be 100% accurate. Watch Back to the Future, Belkar can carve his own destiny lol.

Changing your destiny is the standard trope... Which Rich tends to go against. After all, Miko fell and should have either gone more evil (Blackguard), or found a way to redeem herself. So far, she's just remained dead. This tends to bode ill for Belkar.

OTOH, I'm still convinced that Miko will return in one form or another, either to the World, or at least something to completely close out her character in the afterlife. With a theme of "Death is Negotiable" throughout the story, someone as high level as Miko can't be fully written off without leaving a pretty major plothole. Eugene came back 4 times, revolving door guy (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0487.html) came back for an unknown but clearly numorous times, Roy is waiting to come back, and Shojo turned down coming back for his own reasons. Even unnamed mook guard (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0295.html) and teleport wizard guy (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0379.html) were going to be brought back, until events overcame those who were responsable for bringing them back.

Which to me means Belkar has to be gone in a method where his return isn't possible. Personally, I'd think that the Abyss would prefer not to allow those sent there to use a "Get out of Hell Free" card, but Belkar both knew he was evil, and planned on Durkon to resurrect him when he pushed Miko over the edge. So I can't say that a trip to the Abyss is perminant and one-way.

[the_tick_rules]

I've found the giant most adept at thwarting our expectations. What makes us think this one time it will happen the way we think?