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Galathir
2008-11-24, 06:43 PM
I'll soon be playing a brand new character for a new 3.5 campaign, starting and level one and hopefully going all the way to twenty. My problem is that I don't really know what I want to play and I figured I'd see what the playground can come up with. I'm not looking for anything too exotic and while I want a solid useful character, I'm not interested in min-maxing or power gaming. I don't know anything about the campaign setting yet, but I know that paladins, druids, and beguilers are banned. I'm looking at PHB races though half-orcs are out. I have access to most 3.5 books with the exception of psionics and any setting specific stuff. So here you go. Sell me your favorite character class and race and tell me why you love it. I'm looking forward to hearing your suggestions.

By the way, starting stats are 17, 16, 14, 12, 11, 11.

Stupendous_Man
2008-11-24, 06:55 PM
For casters (powerful)

Being Batman: TLN's Guide to Wizards (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18500)

Solo's Sorcerer Guide (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2180.0)


For a solid useful character

Giacomo's Guide to Monks (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80704&highlight=guide+monks)

Be sure to also read upon:
The Optimized Monk Guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4346041)
The Practical Monk Manuscript (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3871542)
For additional tips and tricks.

PurinaDragonCho
2008-11-24, 07:09 PM
I tend to like to play characters that are versatile, instead of specialized. I've never played a Factotum, but the class looks really cool - it can emulate class features of most classes.

But my absolute favorite class is the Archivist. Archivists can learn any divine spell. Even without resorting to cheese like getting a warlock cohort or finding divine bard spells, you can eventually get access to most of the spells available in the game through domain spells. Start out with a rogue with Able Learner, and virtually every skill is a class skill for you. You can keep open lock and disable device maxed out, and still have skill ponts left over to max out your knowledge skills that your dark knowledge class features run on. I'm playing this character right now, and it has been incredibly fun.

KKL
2008-11-24, 07:15 PM
Factotums

Holy doglickers, Factotums.

See that 17 you have? That's 17 Int. That's a goddamn +3 bonus you have there. Factotums get 6+Int Skills per level. And get this? ALL SKILLS EVER. By the way? TAKE ABLE LEARNER AS A FEAT FOR YOUR FIRST LEVEL I WILL TELL YOU WHY LATER. IT'S IN RACES OF DESTINY. YOU KNOW THIS FEAT IS BADASS BECAUSE IT'S FROM RACES OF DESTINY.

You want to be a Samurai? Iaijutsu Focus. Use Magical Device? You can use PSIONIC DEVICES too, hell yes. Spellcraft? Autohypnosis? You have EVERY SKILL IN THE GAME. Can't stop now, you're SKILLMONKEY SUPREME.

You say average BAB? I say you can do damn near everything you want to, because you're a frigging Factotum. You're that badass. Hit third level? Oh holy hell, you're adding your Int to all your Str and Dex skills and ability checks. In addition to everything else. You can also pick up random spells as an SLA.

Go read them in Dungeonscape. They're incredibly awesome. At 8th level? You're so freaking Factotum, you **** extra standard actions. For only three Inspiration Points per standard action. That refill each encounter. What's that? You want more Inspiration Points? FONT OF INSPIRATION. Now you're BLEEDING Inspiration Points to SKILLMONEY EVERYTHING and be GENERALLY AWESOME.

And After 8th level? Take Chameleon as a PrC. Not only can you do everything as a Factotum, you can now do it EVEN MORE HARDCORE as a Chameleon. What's that? You want to be a Wizard? ARCANE FOCUS UP IN THIS CLASS. Feel Clericy? DIVINE FOCUS. Want to smash skulls? MARTIAL FOCUS, WHAT? You know what else? You get to toss aorund ABILITY SCORE INCREASES. UNTYPED ONES.

WHAT IS THIS MADNESS?

And you get a FLOATING FEAT THAT YOU CAN SWITCH AORUND. You know what THAT MEANS?

Take a damn metamagic feat or something that qualifies you for CRAFTING MAGIC ITEMS. Use your CHAMELEON SPELLS to CRAFT MAGIC ITEMS. And WANDS. And SCROLLS. Become even MORE AWESOME.

AND WHEN YOU KEEP GOING, YOU CAN GET TWO FOCUSES.

Martial AND Divine Focus? Come to daddy, I'm a smashing bastard and can keep all you NON-AWESOME BASTARDS alive. Arcane and Divine? MAGIC UP IN THIS DAY.

Did I mention there are NATURE and ROGUE focuses too? HELL yes.

And once Chameleon's done with it's ten levels? HELL I DONT KNOW, YOU'RE ALREADY AWESOME. TAKE TWO LEVELS OF MARTIAL ROGUE OR SOMETHING. OR MORE FACTOTUM WHY NOT.

So yeah. Factotum 8/Chameleon10/I have no idea what 2.

DownwardSpiral
2008-11-24, 07:18 PM
For a solid useful character

Giacomo's Guide to Monks (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80704&highlight=guide+monks)

Be sure to also read upon:
The Optimized Monk Guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4346041)
The Practical Monk Manuscript (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3871542)
For additional tips and tricks.

.....Monks are solid, useful characters?



....Don't look at me like that! Someone would have said it eventually.

Lappy9000
2008-11-24, 07:19 PM
So yeah. Factotum 8/Chameleon10/I have no idea what 2.

+Artificer. Just for maximum cheesiness.

AmberVael
2008-11-24, 07:20 PM
.....Monks are solid, useful characters?



....Don't look at me like that! Someone would have said it eventually.

No, but due to the way the threads go, you can typically find good caster and melee character tips in them.
I'm pretty sure that's what he meant, knowing him. :smalltongue:

KKL
2008-11-24, 07:22 PM
+Artificer. Just for maximum cheesiness.

Two levels of Artificier? Doens't seem worth it to me.

Serenity
2008-11-24, 07:25 PM
If you want a solid useful character, Giacomo's guide to monks is about the last thing you want to look at. He bends and even breaks rules and comes up with a very sub-par character nonetheless.

My suggestion would be to try one of the Tome of Battle classes if that's allowed. Because they fight using special martial maneuvers, they almost always have something interesting and useful to do in combat, and there are few really bad choices to make in advancing them--it doesn't take a lot of effort to make one of them solid and useful, unlike fighters who often need to plan their feat chains from first level. The Crusader is paladin-like but can be of any alignment; he is a zealous servant of a cause or God, which can be good or evil. They are some of the best tanks in the game, able to absorb a lot of damage and respond with powerful blows, and some of their maneuvers make them effective at keeping enemies from getting past them. Swordsages are very monk-like but with a much more focused ability set that much better encompasses a wuxia-style warrior. They're very versatile, getting the most maneuvers of any of the classes, making them effective scouts, assassins, quick strikers, and they have some area effects available to them to. Warblades are fighters who get nice tricks and nifty bonuses out of intelligence bonuses.

DownwardSpiral
2008-11-24, 07:28 PM
If you want a solid useful character, Giacomo's guide to monks is about the last thing you want to look at. He bends and even breaks rules and comes up with a very sub-par character nonetheless.




No, but due to the way the threads go, you can typically find good caster and melee character tips in them.
I'm pretty sure that's what he meant, knowing him.


That was what I was kinda refering to. ^^;

But yeah, +1 on TOB stuff

Starbuck_II
2008-11-24, 07:37 PM
I'll soon be playing a brand new character for a new 3.5 campaign, starting and level one and hopefully going all the way to twenty. My problem is that I don't really know what I want to play and I figured I'd see what the playground can come up with. I'm not looking for anything too exotic and while I want a solid useful character, I'm not interested in min-maxing or power gaming. I don't know anything about the campaign setting yet, but I know that paladins, druids, and beguilers are banned. I'm looking at PHB races though half-orcs are out. I have access to most 3.5 books with the exception of psionics and any setting specific stuff. So here you go. Sell me your favorite character class and race and tell me why you love it. I'm looking forward to hearing your suggestions.

By the way, starting stats are 17, 16, 14, 12, 11, 11.

TOB, Swordsage would make a fun, non-weak, choice.

Triaxx
2008-11-24, 07:47 PM
Is homebrew acceptable? Pending DM approval of course.

If homebrew is allowed, check out this little bad boy. Cavalier [Base Class] (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34357) Might be too close to a paladin, but it was meant to be similar, but with less suck and no dead levels.

Better for out doors obviously, and especially if you like melee classes.

Assuming it's not, build an Elven Scout, focusing on Longbows and stealth. You'll be able to apply your Skirmish damage to enemy mage's and take them down fast. You'll also be able to put down any flying enemies and give your allied mages complete aerial control. Consider dipping into TOB classes for abilities that give your archery a boost.

Galathir
2008-11-24, 07:56 PM
Thanks for the comments. I've been kind of leaning towards a swordsage since I do enjoy ToB characters even though it's been a while. Maybe an unusual race . . . a dwarf swordsage could be pretty awesome :). I love wizards too so I'll keep thinking about it.

And yeah, monks aren't my thing at all. I'd rather play pretty much anything before I'd play a monk. Apologies to all you monk lovers out there.

And I'll be sure to check out the factotums KKL. I'm not that familiar with them, but they sound pretty awesome.

Hal
2008-11-24, 09:09 PM
Paladins banned? I can only guess it's a setting thing.

That said, how about a Duskblade? Decent power level and they don't require a lot of optimizing to be effective and fun. Toss in Arcane Strike, and you can just wait for that time the DM will give you a chance to hit someone for 100d4 damage.

Eldariel
2008-11-24, 09:28 PM
Dwarf Swordsage actually sounds like a fine idea, although the lack of mobility might hurt a tad (before Shadow Blink anyways). Still, Con boost and no relevant penalties is always nice for a warrior type, especially one with normally low Fort. I'd probably do some dip over the levels as Swordsages are fairly good at a number of things, but to really specialize, you tend to want some more of X (whether it be attack power and protection from Crusader/Warblade/Fighter/Barbarian, SA and skills from Rogue/Factotum, or heck, Flurry for Unarmed Swordsage from Monk - and then there's a number of PrCs that suit SS just fine) while still maintaining SS as the primary class. Also, much of the time, entering some of the ToB school specialist PrCs is worth it (Deepstone Sentinel isn't bad at all if you're going for a tankish SS, for example, while TWF SS absolutely needs Bloodclaw Master - Shadow Sun Ninja has some really handy abilities too if those schools are of interest to you, although it's mostly for Unarmed Swordsages).

Aneantir
2008-11-24, 09:31 PM
Factotums

Holy doglickers, Factotums.

See that 17 you have? That's 17 Int. That's a goddamn +3 bonus you have there. Factotums get 6+Int Skills per level. And get this? ALL SKILLS EVER. By the way? TAKE ABLE LEARNER AS A FEAT FOR YOUR FIRST LEVEL I WILL TELL YOU WHY LATER. IT'S IN RACES OF DESTINY. YOU KNOW THIS FEAT IS BADASS BECAUSE IT'S FROM RACES OF DESTINY.

You want to be a Samurai? Iaijutsu Focus. Use Magical Device? You can use PSIONIC DEVICES too, hell yes. Spellcraft? Autohypnosis? You have EVERY SKILL IN THE GAME. Can't stop now, you're SKILLMONKEY SUPREME.

You say average BAB? I say you can do damn near everything you want to, because you're a frigging Factotum. You're that badass. Hit third level? Oh holy hell, you're adding your Int to all your Str and Dex skills and ability checks. In addition to everything else. You can also pick up random spells as an SLA.

Go read them in Dungeonscape. They're incredibly awesome. At 8th level? You're so freaking Factotum, you **** extra standard actions. For only three Inspiration Points per standard action. That refill each encounter. What's that? You want more Inspiration Points? FONT OF INSPIRATION. Now you're BLEEDING Inspiration Points to SKILLMONEY EVERYTHING and be GENERALLY AWESOME.

And After 8th level? Take Chameleon as a PrC. Not only can you do everything as a Factotum, you can now do it EVEN MORE HARDCORE as a Chameleon. What's that? You want to be a Wizard? ARCANE FOCUS UP IN THIS CLASS. Feel Clericy? DIVINE FOCUS. Want to smash skulls? MARTIAL FOCUS, WHAT? You know what else? You get to toss aorund ABILITY SCORE INCREASES. UNTYPED ONES.

WHAT IS THIS MADNESS?

And you get a FLOATING FEAT THAT YOU CAN SWITCH AORUND. You know what THAT MEANS?

Take a damn metamagic feat or something that qualifies you for CRAFTING MAGIC ITEMS. Use your CHAMELEON SPELLS to CRAFT MAGIC ITEMS. And WANDS. And SCROLLS. Become even MORE AWESOME.

AND WHEN YOU KEEP GOING, YOU CAN GET TWO FOCUSES.

Martial AND Divine Focus? Come to daddy, I'm a smashing bastard and can keep all you NON-AWESOME BASTARDS alive. Arcane and Divine? MAGIC UP IN THIS DAY.

Did I mention there are NATURE and ROGUE focuses too? HELL yes.

And once Chameleon's done with it's ten levels? HELL I DONT KNOW, YOU'RE ALREADY AWESOME. TAKE TWO LEVELS OF MARTIAL ROGUE OR SOMETHING. OR MORE FACTOTUM WHY NOT.

So yeah. Factotum 8/Chameleon10/I have no idea what 2.

I'm not sure why, but this screamed Power Thirst to me.

UserClone
2008-11-24, 09:41 PM
Aneantir, as far as I'm concerned, you just won this thread.

Galathir
2008-11-24, 10:06 PM
I seem to recall reading about an archer swordsage homebrew, but I'm not sure if it was on this forum or elsewhere and search isn't working for me at the moment. Does anyone happen to know more about it offhand? I have a thing for archers and a ToB archer was just be awesome.

Eldariel
2008-11-24, 10:11 PM
There's the Falling Star Discipline. Without homebrew though, you're better off as a Warblade Archer than a Swordsage Archer (since Warblade qualifies for Ranged Weapon Mastery as Warblade-levels count as Fighter-2-levels, and since they both have the relevant schools in Tiger Claw and Diamond Mind, but Warblade has the awesome White Raven in addition - gives you something to do when not shooting). That said, you should be able to dig Falling Star up in this very Homebrew forum.

Emperor Tippy
2008-11-24, 10:26 PM
Ignoring KKL's weird post, factotum is a good solid choice. So is swordsage or warblade. If you want to be a caster then there are wizards, archivists, clerics, druids, psions, artificers, and a whole ton of less optimum choices to pick from. Magic of Icraum (I know that's spelled wrong) has a few nice classes in it and odds are you haven't used it before.

KKL
2008-11-24, 10:28 PM
Ignoring KKL's weird post

He told people to sell their classes. I sold the Factotum.

Emperor Tippy
2008-11-24, 10:30 PM
He told people to sell their classes. I sold the Factotum.

No, you wrote that like you were high.

Gao
2008-11-24, 10:31 PM
I'd buy it, if it makes you feel any better.

Maerok
2008-11-24, 10:32 PM
Factotums

Holy doglickers, Factotums.

See that 17 you have? That's 17 Int. That's a goddamn +3 bonus you have there. Factotums get 6+Int Skills per level. And get this? ALL SKILLS EVER. By the way? TAKE ABLE LEARNER AS A FEAT FOR YOUR FIRST LEVEL I WILL TELL YOU WHY LATER. IT'S IN RACES OF DESTINY. YOU KNOW THIS FEAT IS BADASS BECAUSE IT'S FROM RACES OF DESTINY.

You want to be a Samurai? Iaijutsu Focus. Use Magical Device? You can use PSIONIC DEVICES too, hell yes. Spellcraft? Autohypnosis? You have EVERY SKILL IN THE GAME. Can't stop now, you're SKILLMONKEY SUPREME.

You say average BAB? I say you can do damn near everything you want to, because you're a frigging Factotum. You're that badass. Hit third level? Oh holy hell, you're adding your Int to all your Str and Dex skills and ability checks. In addition to everything else. You can also pick up random spells as an SLA.

Go read them in Dungeonscape. They're incredibly awesome. At 8th level? You're so freaking Factotum, you **** extra standard actions. For only three Inspiration Points per standard action. That refill each encounter. What's that? You want more Inspiration Points? FONT OF INSPIRATION. Now you're BLEEDING Inspiration Points to SKILLMONEY EVERYTHING and be GENERALLY AWESOME.

And After 8th level? Take Chameleon as a PrC. Not only can you do everything as a Factotum, you can now do it EVEN MORE HARDCORE as a Chameleon. What's that? You want to be a Wizard? ARCANE FOCUS UP IN THIS CLASS. Feel Clericy? DIVINE FOCUS. Want to smash skulls? MARTIAL FOCUS, WHAT? You know what else? You get to toss aorund ABILITY SCORE INCREASES. UNTYPED ONES.

WHAT IS THIS MADNESS?

And you get a FLOATING FEAT THAT YOU CAN SWITCH AORUND. You know what THAT MEANS?

Take a damn metamagic feat or something that qualifies you for CRAFTING MAGIC ITEMS. Use your CHAMELEON SPELLS to CRAFT MAGIC ITEMS. And WANDS. And SCROLLS. Become even MORE AWESOME.

AND WHEN YOU KEEP GOING, YOU CAN GET TWO FOCUSES.

Martial AND Divine Focus? Come to daddy, I'm a smashing bastard and can keep all you NON-AWESOME BASTARDS alive. Arcane and Divine? MAGIC UP IN THIS DAY.

Did I mention there are NATURE and ROGUE focuses too? HELL yes.

And once Chameleon's done with it's ten levels? HELL I DONT KNOW, YOU'RE ALREADY AWESOME. TAKE TWO LEVELS OF MARTIAL ROGUE OR SOMETHING. OR MORE FACTOTUM WHY NOT.

So yeah. Factotum 8/Chameleon10/I have no idea what 2.

Changeling Rogue 2/Factotum 8/Chameleon 10. You can be ANYONE. How your enemies defeat themselves?

Also: SKILLS! You'll be good at them. Too energetic for normal DCs! SNAKE EYESSSSS!!!

Vexxation
2008-11-24, 10:35 PM
Changeling Rogue 2/Factotum 8/Chameleon 10. You can be ANYONE. How your enemies defeat themselves?

Also: SKILLS! You'll be good at them. Too energetic for normal DCs! SNAKE EYESSSSS!!!

Why the rogue? Factotum is... well... just... a bit better for the role of being awesome at everything. Chameleons can get rogue features, Factotums have all class skills... seems a bit odd. It can't hurt, but...

Maerok
2008-11-24, 10:36 PM
Changeling rogue 1 gets (10+Int) * 4 skill points, can take 10 on social checks.

The Faceless
2008-11-24, 10:38 PM
Changeling Rogue 2/Factotum 8/Chameleon 10. You can be ANYONE. How your enemies defeat themselves?

Also: SKILLS! You'll be good at them. Too energetic for normal DCs! SNAKE EYESSSSS!!!

I KNEW that pitch reminded me of something!

DEATH DUNGEONS! A new type of dungeon you'll invent because you'll be TOO VERSATILE FOR NORMAL DUNGEONS!

Stupendous_Man
2008-11-24, 10:39 PM
Second level of Changeling Rogue can be Warlock for +6 to intimidate, bluff, and diplomacy?

Vexxation
2008-11-24, 10:39 PM
Changeling rogue 1 gets (10+Int) * 4 skill points, can take 10 on social checks.

OH! Changeling Rogue.
I thought it was Rogue 2 who happened to be Changeling.
Yes. Racial Substitution ftw!

UserClone
2008-11-24, 10:39 PM
I'd buy it, if it makes you feel any better.You'd probably also buy Powerthirst (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRuNxHqwazs). My recommended flavor?

GUN!!!

Maerok
2008-11-24, 10:39 PM
BARBARIAN 1! Fast movement! You'll run as fast as KENYANS!

UserClone
2008-11-24, 10:44 PM
You should take those last two levels in FIGHTER!! Why?
BONUS FEATS!!
You'll be drowning in BONUS FEATS!!
You won't know what to do with so many BONUS FEATS!!
TWO BONUS FEATS!!

The fighter is too energetic for the normal feats!
It needs BONUS FEATS!!
...
...
...
GUN!!!

chiasaur11
2008-11-24, 10:44 PM
Changeling Rogue 2/Factotum 8/Chameleon 10. You can be ANYONE. How your enemies defeat themselves?

Also: SKILLS! You'll be good at them. Too energetic for normal DCs! SNAKE EYESSSSS!!!

Plus, people figure that James T. Kirk and Doctor Henry "Indiana" Jones Jr are that class. And if Dr. Jones and Captain Kirk aren't awesome enough for you, well, who is?

Maerok
2008-11-24, 10:45 PM
I have an explorer base class for you Indy fans. (siggy) </shameless plug>

Stupendous_Man
2008-11-24, 10:48 PM
MONKS! You'll use your fists for EVERYTHING! You'll make you use your fists for everyday tasks like television, or romance, or helicopter repair and MAINTENANCE!

Vexxation
2008-11-24, 10:50 PM
MONKS! You'll use your fists for EVERYTHING!

FIRE!! KILL IT WITH IT!!

Maerok
2008-11-24, 10:51 PM
*boop*

"Krusk choose BARBARIANNNN!!!"

*boop*

"My name's Gimble and I -"

"AAAHHHH! AHHHHHH!"

*boop*

--Mialee just twitches.--

AslanCross
2008-11-24, 11:33 PM
Have you ever gotten tired of simply swinging a sword? Are you sick of playing a low-Int meat shield or a suboptimal "smart" fighter?

The Warblade is a powerful offensive melee character that can keep up the pressure and never let up. While the Swordsage has a broader repertoire of maneuvers (albeit less staying power) and the Crusader has more staying power and cheesy builds (albeit less versatility and a random maneuver recovery mechanism), the Warblade can recover its maneuvers quickly, and if he chooses the Adaptive Style feat, can quickly adapt to situations.

A Warblade could go with the Iron Heart or Diamond Mind schools if he wants to focus on skill. If he prefers brute force, Stone Dragon or Tiger Claw do well. The ability to aid one's party members is also very valuable, and the White Raven school does this well.

The Warblade, although not proficient with heavy armor, has d12 hit dice. Despite his low Reflex and Will saves, he can gain a bonus to his Reflex equal to his Int modifier thanks to his Battle Clarity feature. The Will save could easily covered by the Diamond Mind's Moment of Perfect Mind counter, which could dramatically improve your Will Save. (And you could easily recover it next turn if need be.)

With a high BAB and a quick-and-easy maneuver recovery mechanism, the Warblade makes an unrelentingly powerful melee striker. If you enjoy melee characters who do more than stand there with stupid grins on their faces while they tank and yet would rather not have to die every other session, the Warblade is the right class for you.

And that's not all! The Warblade offers the ability to qualify for Fighter-only feats as well as the ability to swap those for other weapons!

I'd go with 17 STR, 14 DEX, 16 CON, 12 INT, 11 WIS, 11 CHA, though if you prefer Tiger Claw, swap Dex and Con.

Stupendous_Man
2008-11-24, 11:36 PM
Hell, bard.

You know you want to.

KKL
2008-11-24, 11:44 PM
No, you wrote that like you were high.

:(

Digging deep man, digging deep.

mabriss lethe
2008-11-25, 12:22 AM
Binders are a world of fun, not disgustingly powerful but still capable of unleashing a host of nasty tricks on the unwary.

At level 1:

bind naberius. You own everyone...instantly. if it speaks your language, it's soon to be your willing slave. Always be able to take 10 on diplomacy checs and Make rushed diplomacy checks without penalty, drop a Command on a foe 1/5 rounds. Do things you aren't trained to do (UMD isn't a bad choice.) A diplomancer that can rival the bard. (Diplomacy is a class skill btw)

Bind Aym to become a nasty little tank beast. Sunder everything. Run around in med armor and never even notice that pesky penalty to speed. Burst into flames and make people afraid to hit you.

Bind Amon and be a firebreathing scotsman, complete with headbutting action.

Bind Leraje to be a sneaker little git and bounce arrows off of people's foreheads.

Bind Ronove and be just like a monk, only slightly more useful.

It just gets more entertaining from there

Deepblue706
2008-11-25, 12:45 AM
Be a Fighter who dual-wields bastard swords. And throws them.

Maerok
2008-11-25, 12:49 AM
Have you ever gotten tired of simply swinging a sword? Are you sick of playing a low-Int meat shield or a suboptimal "smart" fighter?

The Warblade is a powerful offensive melee character that can keep up the pressure and never let up. While the Swordsage has a broader repertoire of maneuvers (albeit less staying power) and the Crusader has more staying power and cheesy builds (albeit less versatility and a random maneuver recovery mechanism), the Warblade can recover its maneuvers quickly, and if he chooses the Adaptive Style feat, can quickly adapt to situations.

A Warblade could go with the Iron Heart or Diamond Mind schools if he wants to focus on skill. If he prefers brute force, Stone Dragon or Tiger Claw do well. The ability to aid one's party members is also very valuable, and the White Raven school does this well.

The Warblade, although not proficient with heavy armor, has d12 hit dice. Despite his low Reflex and Will saves, he can gain a bonus to his Reflex equal to his Int modifier thanks to his Battle Clarity feature. The Will save could easily covered by the Diamond Mind's Moment of Perfect Mind counter, which could dramatically improve your Will Save. (And you could easily recover it next turn if need be.)

With a high BAB and a quick-and-easy maneuver recovery mechanism, the Warblade makes an unrelentingly powerful melee striker. If you enjoy melee characters who do more than stand there with stupid grins on their faces while they tank and yet would rather not have to die every other session, the Warblade is the right class for you.

And that's not all! The Warblade offers the ability to qualify for Fighter-only feats as well as the ability to swap those for other weapons!

I'd go with 17 STR, 14 DEX, 16 CON, 12 INT, 11 WIS, 11 CHA, though if you prefer Tiger Claw, swap Dex and Con.

Hmmph, ToB. "Whatcha got there? Oh that's nice. Howzabout we slap some Swordsage on there for good measure." "Oh, but I wanted a rogue..." "What? *slap* Swordsage/Rogue for you then."

I know that it's a petty rant, but I wish there was more than just warblades and swordsages when it all comes down to it.

Keld Denar
2008-11-25, 01:28 AM
Dude, Dragonfire Adept

Rockin class. Only needs 2 feats. Entangling Exhalation and Ability Focus: Breath Weapon. Seriously, after that, everything else is up to you.

Get the invocation that makes your allies immune to your breath weapon, stand directly behind them, and blast away. That is, until you get the flight invocations. Depending on what you have access to, you could get the Strafing Breath feats from the Dragonlance Campaign Setting, and you can lay down swaths of your breath weapon that'll pretty much auto entangle everyone you want. You'll be a walking -6 to str and dex and a living embodiment of half movement speed.

Best part about it? Kobalds to it better. Dragonwraught your kobald now for extra goodness. Why waste an invocation on flight, when your race can do it for you. Or be a standard race. Dwarves make excelent DFAs, as long as you don't rely too much on invocations with saves. Hell, Dragonborn your Dwarf for extra Con goodness. Get the DC so high, your foes won't know what hit em.

Best part about it? Its all online!

http://forums.gleemax.com/leaving.php?destination=http://www.wizards.com/default.asp%3Fx%3Ddnd/ex/20060912a%26page%3D2

and the guide:
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=780301

Bayar
2008-11-25, 02:16 AM
At 8th level? You're so freaking Factotum, you **** extra standard actions.

Oh god, this is made out of awesome WIN.:biggrin:

BardicDuelist
2008-11-25, 02:32 AM
Factotum.

You can do basically whatever you want out of the box. You're a skillmonkey that can can fight. You can dabble with magic. It's a really hard class to get bored with, but if you do, go Chameleon. Now, you're anyone in the party for a day.

Gao
2008-11-25, 03:30 AM
Hmmph, ToB. "Whatcha got there? Oh that's nice. Howzabout we slap some Swordsage on there for good measure." "Oh, but I wanted a rogue..." "What? *slap* Swordsage/Rogue for you then."

I know that it's a petty rant, but I wish there was more than just warblades and swordsages when it all comes down to it.

Crusader/Master of Nine. Feat Intensive and a pain in the ass to get, but you get 8 granted maneuvers out of 10 total leading to the most kickass action economy ever made; free actions. And lol ALWAYS having access to virtually every maneuver you readied. And lol refreshing them every 2 rounds. And getting to pick from every school.

That said, Factotum. Or Batman.

ShneekeyTheLost
2008-11-25, 11:38 AM
That, my good friend, depends entirely on what you want to do. Fortunately, I have a number of offers in my good kit.

Do you want to be the biggest billy badass that ever swung a sword so huge that people wonder about compensation?

Look no further, my friend, for I have your solution for you.

Barbarian1 (pounce variant)/Warblade19

Barbarian is a nice little dip, lets you get away with being able to pounce without sacrificing maneuvers to do it. From here, it's all about laying the beat down. Power Attack, Shock Trooper, Leap Attack (and Tiger Claw really helps with those jump checks), Raging Mongoose for not one, but TWO extra attacks on top of the full attack. But wait, there's more! What if you've got to deal with something that has obscene AC so that you're in trouble just trying to hit it? Worry not, my friend, for Warblades get access to the Emerald Razor Strike, which lets you resolve an attack as a TOUCH attack. Or, if you're trying to catch one of those squirmy squirt types, Saphire Nightmare Blade lets you resolve as a flat-footed attack. No one can call you a pimply grot and get away with it! WAAAAAGH!!

If you want to be a supreme damage dealer from afar, I've got two good choices for you:

Scout4/Ranger16 (Swift Hunter)

Improved Manyshot turns this build into a high-damage output monster. Moving around at least 10' to get skirmish, then Improved Manyshot to get a full round of arrows off anyways.

Warblade/Bloodstorm Blade

You get to make melee attacks... far away! No, seriously.

If you want to be one of those sneaky squirts, then I've got some options for you too

Warlock is just a fun class, and has such potential that is so often ignored. Blasting away at range for touch attacks is good, but that's only the beginning, my friend. Want to do damage in melee? Eldrich Glave is what you need, make a full round of melee touch attacks for some fairly obscene damage output. Want to be a standoff-ish sniper? Then Fell Flight and Retrobutive Invisibility are what you need! Oh, and let's not forget Utterdark Blast to give negative levels to everyone you shoot, which is particularly handy when paired with Chain Blast. Vitriolic Blast is good when facing opponents with a lot of SR.

Rogue is a good starting point for any sneak-type, with a high number of skills and Trapfinding. Lot of fun PrC's to go along with it too. Nightsong Infiltrator is a good one for boosting parties, Grant Move Action is fun, so is Group Sneak Attack (yes, granting EVERYONE in the party sneak attack dice). Nightsong Enforcer if you want to be more of a melee damage guy.

Gao
2008-11-25, 12:05 PM
That, my good friend, depends entirely on what you want to do. Fortunately, I have a number of offers in my good kit.

Do you want to be the biggest billy badass that ever swung a sword so huge that people wonder about compensation?

Look no further, my friend, for I have your solution for you.

Barbarian1 (pounce variant)/Warblade19

Barbarian is a nice little dip, lets you get away with being able to pounce without sacrificing maneuvers to do it. From here, it's all about laying the beat down. Power Attack, Shock Trooper, Leap Attack (and Tiger Claw really helps with those jump checks), Raging Mongoose for not one, but TWO extra attacks on top of the full attack. But wait, there's more! What if you've got to deal with something that has obscene AC so that you're in trouble just trying to hit it? Worry not, my friend, for Warblades get access to the Emerald Razor Strike, which lets you resolve an attack as a TOUCH attack. Or, if you're trying to catch one of those squirmy squirt types, Saphire Nightmare Blade lets you resolve as a flat-footed attack. No one can call you a pimply grot and get away with it! WAAAAAGH!!

Hell yes orks. That said, it's the Lion Totem variant that nets you pounce, from... Savage Species? In case you were wondering about the real name. It's an excellent 1 level dip.

Aneantir
2008-11-25, 03:23 PM
Hell yes orks. That said, it's the Lion Totem variant that nets you pounce, from... Savage Species? In case you were wondering about the real name. It's an excellent 1 level dip.

The Lion totem variant is from Complete Champion.

Also, I'm going to join the mob:

HEY
Do you want to have so many class features?
Try Factotum, a class for people who need GRATUITOUS AMOUNTS OF CLASS FEATURES!