Slayer's Seemingly Sweet and Socially Silly Random Banter # 107

[Neko Toast]

(New rule has been added! See the bottom of the rule list!)


The Rules.
Please Read Them!

In order to try and keep these threads from becoming unmanageable, some rules have been created, and they accent the forum rules. Please read those first.

1. Spam. For the purposes of RB, one word posts are generally considered spam. Likewise, posts that are nothing but *actions like this* are also be considered spam. Remember that the quality of the post's content is much better than the speed of your response.
2. This isn't the Play by Post or Town forum, nor is it the Silly Message Board Games or Structured Games forum. Please avoid continuous roleplay or mock battles and fights such as the "competition for control of the universe".
3. If it's already a thread, don't bring it to RB. RB has such a huge range of subject matter even restricted to the little snippets that probably don't warrant their own thread, it doesn't need legitimate thread topics cluttering it up as well. The exception to this is to bring something that is off-topic from one thread, but on-topic for RB and the subject doesn't warrant a thread of its own.
4. Don't advertise other threads in RB. Just because these new threads move at speeds more appropriate to a message board than an IM session doesn't mean you need to come over to RB and brow beat people into posting in your latest brainchild.
5. Please don't post single line posts alerting us to your current status -- as in "I'm back." This is Random Banter, not "How to stalk Random GitP forum members."
6. Don't poke, kick or bump the thread. It will move at whatever pace it wants to. Also, please refrain from Captain Obvious comments akin to "My, the thread is fast today."
7. Random Banter can only be as good, or as entertaining, as you make it. Demands to be entertained will fall on deaf ears unless you can add something more meaningful to the conversation.
8. As this is a public forum, where the current topic is nicely recorded for you, and not a conversation where you could have missed the beginning, please refrain from asking something to the effect of "What's the topic?". Please take the time to read up a bit first.
9. Thread Creator must include the words "Random" and "Banter" as well as the thread #. Try to be concise as well.
10. Every post should contain two visible, legible complete sentences, Subject and Predicate. C'mon, make your old English teachers proud.
11. Remember, Random Banter is not your IM client. If you want to have a back and forth discussion with just one person, look in their contact information for IM details.
12. Whenever a new thread is created, all "first post", "first page", and all posts of that nature will be deleted by the administrators. Please avoid doing this, as it is frustrating for them to deal with one-lined posts like this.



:elan:Anyone found breaking the rules will be sent to stand in the corner and receive a very stern talking to!:elan:

Previous Threads:
(We all have far too much spare time.)
Amotis' Random Banter #1 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13484)
Dhavaer's Random Banter #2 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13401)
PhoeKun's Random Banter #3 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13319)
Rei Jin's Random Banter #4 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13205)
Toxic Avenger's Random Banter #5 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13146)
Jibar's Random Banter #6 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13026)
Ego Slayer's Surrogate Random Banter #7 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12939)
Sneak's Random Barroom Brawl #8 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12918)
Sophistemon's Solemnly Random Banter #9 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12855)
Vaynor's Very Random Banter #10 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12834)
Bookman's Blathering Random Banter #11 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12809)
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This thread is for random discussion, not random chit chat. People have set up an unofficial IRC chat thingy (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12321) for that sort of thing. Not only will you not annoy the people here, you will also help increase the popularity of the IRC chat. It's win/win/win!

Be not unkind, and may enjoyment flow post-haste!

[Neko Toast]

@Cristo: I was just about to, but the thread closed before I could get to it.

Just saying this now: my apologies to anyone else who wanted to do it.

[TwoBitWriter]

I'm here! You can all stop holding your breath! TwoBit is in da house! :smallsmile:

[Cristo Meyers]

@Cristo: I was just about to, but the thread closed before I could get to it.

Just saying this now: my apologies to anyone else who wanted to do it.

Shouldn't matter, you can still go into it.

[Jibar]

*power slide entry*

Woo woo wooo woo woo wooo woa woa woa woa bweeeeee beedle beedle beedle bweeeeeeeee dow dow dooowwwww...

*GUITAR SOLO BOOGIE BLESSING!*

This thread has been blessed, WITH ROCK!



...I'll stop playing Rock Band, I swear.

[Cristo Meyers]

...I'll stop playing Rock Band, I swear.

...I doubt the veracity of this statement...:smalltongue:

[Neko Toast]

...I doubt the veracity of this statement...:smalltongue:

I second this.

[Player_Zero]

Sorry, Player Zero. Guess I'm lame. :smalltongue:


-_-

I shouldn't let anyone else do anything anymore. They'll only do it wrong.

[Coidzor]

...I'll stop playing Rock Band, I swear.

I doubt the veracity of this statement as well. Also, I wonder who came up with the ideas behind the recent rock band commercials. And now I'm creeped out again by those skeezy commercials for one of the two where it makes the misogynistic claim that women are hollow-headed robots with no room in their minds for anything except for attractive musicians making music.

@^: *Wingpat* There, there. He's just a bit sore about his sons trying to kill him.

[Dirk Kris]

I just noticed something...

Hmm...I require a lot of things: worship, praise, the souls of a million psychics...but snuggles doesn't really rank...
...not even snuggles from me?
I'm hurt, really.
First you avoid me, then tell me my snuggles don't rank.
That stings, Cristo.
...I'm this close to ex-man-crushing you.

[TwoBitWriter]

I just noticed something...

...not even snuggles from me?
I'm hurt, really.
First you avoid me, then tell me my snuggles don't rank.
That stings, Cristo.
...I'm this close to ex-man-crushing you.

*snuggles Dirk*

I can give you enough for both of us! :smallbiggrin:

[Neko Toast]

-_-

I shouldn't let anyone else do anything anymore. They'll only do it wrong.

I'm a person of tradition. Apparently, it's a tradition to copy + paste the first post.

So there.

[Rawhide]

Please remember that any posts that proclaim "first post", "first page" or similar will get deleted. The verdict is still out on posts that just say something to the effect of "boogie", but that should be considered little more than spam. I know I personally don't want to take action against something that will spoil people's fun, but the number of junk posts at the start and end of RB threads is alarming. Please try to be reasonable and include more content with your posts.

[Dallas-Dakota]

No, you should all manually type it over.

It's good for A Getting in your mind how much spare time we have and B get to read the rules again and C don't forget to add the new link and D it's tradition! and E I had a E! Darnit! What's my E! Ok, we'l do the scene again tomorrow, I'm off in my trailer...This post should not be taken serious...As all of my posts should, except for posts in the Dep or RWA threads.

Ow, sorry Rawhide-san, won't do it again, promise.

Edit : What's it with me and calling people -san lately? I don't have anything with japanese titles...

Harukiiiiiiiiii!

[Coidzor]

One might even be able to develop some kind of response or analysis of the situation by drawing upon Information Theory and that whole thing about noise in a system.

A bell curve, where there are several smaller spikes of noise due to the inevitable tangents and repeated conversations/commentaries/statements, but with the peak at the beginning and ending of the time observed per thread.

[Neko Toast]

*salutes to the almighty admin*

I'll go stick that in the rules right now.

[Player_Zero]

I'm a person of tradition. Apparently, it's a tradition to copy + paste the first post.

So there.

Tis no tradition, they're just lazy. There is no beauty to it.

Also, traditions are stupid. Out-dated imperialist dogma.

[SoD]

Also, traditions are stupid. Out-dated imperialist dogma.

Oh, I don't know about that. I think everyone should have their little traditions. I, for example, have a 20 percent chance (1-2 on a D10) of getting up without coffee, and an 80% chance of staying in bed for a bit longer. With coffee (sometimes supplied by my fond and doting parents) I've got a 95% (Anything but an 11 on a D20) chance of getting up.

And Christmas traditions, yes, I could go on at length about those.

[Jibar]

Please remember that any posts that proclaim "first post", "first page" or similar will get deleted. The verdict is still out on posts that just say something to the effect of "boogie", but that should be considered little more than spam. I know I personally don't want to take action against something that will spoil people's fun, but the number of junk posts at the start and end of RB threads is alarming. Please try to be reasonable and include more content with your posts.

Sorry. I usually will include more when I Boogie but... yeah, not much to say tonight.
More to keep the tradition really.

Hmmm...
Well, Rock Band then?
More specifically Rock Band 2?
Shiny.
Really shiny.
I know it's old news for most of ya'll in the states but it was only released Friday here in Europe, and so I'm only now really getting into the brunt of it.
But yes, shiny. It wasn't until I got into the singing that I realised they had really glammed stuff up. The lyrics came in a font that didn't look like someone had hastily typed it out on a broken typewriter. Actually made things rather difficult when I had to suddenly adapt to this new font and deal with the white text messing with my eyes. Then I 100% the song. Because I'm a Rage fan.
I'm still infuriated though that I cannot play Hard. On anything. I can't hit the notes on the vocals, I can't match the speed on drums and I simply cannot slide on the guitar. I can do everything else there, I can match their speed and their complicated chords and fancy hammer ons and what not but for the life of me that 5th button is a doozy and a half. I'm apparantly not dextorous enough to shift my hand just a little lower down.
It is my great shame.


...I named my band Pornography Philosophy. Because MacGuyver Built Us Out Of Sticks And Stones was too difficult and too long.

Content, I haz it?

[Player_Zero]

Keeping traditions when they get in the way of things is stupid then. You can wear the same pair of socks every tuesday if you want to, but ritalistic sacrifice is not an amazing idea.

In this case, it's getting in the way of my amusement. The gravest of sins.

[bosssmiley]

Also, traditions are stupid. Out-dated imperialist dogma.

What wrongheaded trollery is this that awakens me from my slumber? :smalltongue:

[Lyesmith]

I despise christmas.
All that happiness and joy.
There's something wrong there, you mark my words.

[CurlyKitGirl]

I have this unsettling conviction that YouTube has made all their videos wider and now it looks really, really odd. It's such an awkwardly sized rectangle, I can't help but be suspicious of it.
*glances aside at the wide YouTube vids*

[Coidzor]

I have this unsettling conviction that YouTube has made all their videos wider and now it looks really, really odd. It's such an awkwardly sized rectangle, I can't help but be suspicious of it.
*glances aside at the wide YouTube vids*

They're widening their maws... But for what purpose? Devouring our souls, perhaps? :smalleek:

[Lyesmith]

Perhaps its a conspiracy.
On a sidenote, daaamn i need a guy. I'm starting to ogle random dudes on the street now, which is just not healthy. Not at all.

...What are the ethics on getting a (really, really hot) straight (But probably a little bit Bi) drunk and then doing whatever?

[Player_Zero]

Perhaps its a conspiracy.
On a sidenote, daaamn i need a guy. I'm starting to ogle random dudes on the street now, which is just not healthy. Not at all.

...What are the ethics on getting a (really, really hot) straight (But probably a little bit Bi) drunk and then doing whatever?

Highly immoral.

What are the ethics of trying to turn a gay guy straight? Or a better analogy may just be getting a girl drunk in a sort of pseudo-rape only with the added extent of inflicting emotional uncertainty and/or distress upon someone through sexual confusion.

Also, believe in you who believes in yourself. You do not need someone as long as you are happy with yourself. Tis but a bonus.

[CurlyKitGirl]

They're widening their maws... But for what purpose? Devouring our souls, perhaps? :smalleek:

I knew it! And it's all the freakier when it loads the video area first and it looks like it's come through the other tabs and it's out to get you.
You dare not turn your back on the screen lest it lunges out of the world of cybernetics, plunges through your back and rips out your heart and soul.
:smalleek:
>.>
And now I've made myself paranoid over YouTube videos of all types.
Thank you the Playground for removing my remaining shards of sanity.

[Lyesmith]

Okay Curly, thanks. I'm now afraid of Youtube.
*shudders in fear*

Also, at ethics, Curses!. I guess it's time to put the Id back its box and let out the Super-ego again.
Bye bye Id:smallfrown:

[Player_Zero]

Okay Curly, thanks. I'm now afraid of Youtube.
*shudders in fear*
[/SIZE]

I searched for 'scary youtube video' and came up with this: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=bBRkep8hVzc

[CurlyKitGirl]

Okay Curly, thanks. I'm now afraid of Youtube.
*shudders in fear*

No problem my bird, I'm just going around destroying peoples joy in the website. And it's far worse if you're listening to creepy music and especially emo/goth metal.
Or surprisingly loud jolts


Also, at ethics, Curses!. I guess it's time to put the Id back its box and let out the Super-ego again.
Bye bye Id:smallfrown:


Do not get me started on Freud. D. H. Lawrence takes it way too far and I shudder every time I think about studying that travesty of a book of his. At least Gibbons made its style funny as. Actually, 'zira, I beg you to read that book and read it knowing that it's a parody. It's so much funnier that way.

EDIT:
@^: that actually disappointed me PZ, I was expecting something less cliche. Seen a dozen variations. :smallfrown:

[Lyesmith]

...Wait, Gibbons?
I think he did a talk at the Psych lecture last week, though i might be misremembering.
I'll confess i think the Id/Ego/Super-ego has some plausibility, with some people having some bits stronger than others (I know two people who are hugely Id and Super-ego, it's quite funny. They're one Ego off a power trio)

[Kneenibble]

If you start a happy birthday thread for me, Aziraphoneme, you can get me drunk and do whatever as long as there's no marks left in the morning.

[Lyesmith]

If you start a happy birthday thread for me, Aziraphoneme, you can get me drunk and do whatever as long as there's no marks left in the morning.

...*Waits until the 3rd*
*Plots*

[Kneenibble]

(I know this is in absolutely bad taste, but) But it's todaaay!

Actually I lied. You could get me drunk anyways.

[Player_Zero]

That actually disappointed me PZ, I was expecting something less cliche. Seen a dozen variations. :smallfrown:

I ain't here to amuse you. I'm here to amuse me. And it does.

Comments-wise I was looking for something a little less cliche. You disappoint me. I've seen over nine thousand variations.

On another note, I can't stop trying to eat this spoon. It is not eat-able. It is a spoon. A stainless steel spoon.

[Lyesmith]

Oh, I know.
I was bluffing.
But happy birthday anyway!
Get anything nice? A new parasol?

[CurlyKitGirl]

...Wait, Gibbons?
I think he did a talk at the Psych lecture last week, though i might be misremembering.
I'll confess i think the Id/Ego/Super-ego has some plausibility, with some people having some bits stronger than others (I know two people who are hugely Id and Super-ego, it's quite funny. They're one Ego off a power trio)

I doubt that m'boy.
For starters, she's a she. Stella Gibbons. And she's dead. And she was an author/journalist. And she's dead.
And she wrote Cold Comfort Farm which parodies the ramantic novels like Tess of the d'Urbervilles, Sons and Lovers (Lawrence); anything by Austen and book of that type.

EDIT:
@PZ: I've done the same. Spent four days on and off nibbling a spoon because it was there; the taste was quite nice too.

[Lyesmith]

I doubt that m'boy.
For starters, she's a she. Stella Gibbons. And she's dead. And she was an author/journalist. And she's dead.
And she wrote Cold Comfort Farm which parodies the ramantic novels like Tess of the d'Urbervilles, Sons and Lovers (Lawrence); anything by Austen and book of that type.

EDIT:
@PZ: I've done the same. Spent four days on and off nibbling a spoon because it was there; the taste was quite nice too.

I thought I was imagining it.
Nibbling things is a terrible habit, i'll nibble more or less anything if it gets too close.
I was even chewing on my own flesh! (Didnt really taste of anything)

[Kaelaroth]

I loved Cold Comfort Farm. Just sayin'

[CurlyKitGirl]

I thought I was imagining it.
Nibbling things is a terrible habit, i'll nibble more or less anything if it gets too close.
I was even chewing on my own flesh! (Didnt really taste of anything)

Same. Hair, flesh, paper. Broke the habit mostly. But yes, spoons taste quite nice; knives, not so much


I loved Cold Comfort Farm. Just sayin'

Adam and his liddle mop! Elfine 'my cowdling' and Aimless, Graceless, Feckless and Pointless (one of whome had a leg fall off 'cause of gangrene and mildew) and Big Business the bull whom Seth loves to lounge off unbuttoning his many many buttoned shirts to visit.
Note: this will only make sense if you've read the book.

[Lyesmith]

...You just gave me a terrible flashback to The Archers.:smalleek:
Which is so, so dull at the moment! They're saving all the drama for Christmas, I'll bet. *Continues to rant to himself*

[SMEE]

Bow before your new god. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimarrão)

[Player_Zero]

Bow before your new god. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimarrão)

"Chimarrão is a strong tea"

...

Heheh...

Hehehe....

Hahahaha...

AHAHAHAHAHAHA!

AHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA!

[Lyesmith]

*blink*
*blink*
...Madness!
*Backs away slowly*
*Scarpers*

[SoD]

I searched for 'scary youtube video' and came up with this: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=bBRkep8hVzc

You awful person. I was expecting something like that, so turned the volume to 5%. I wasn't scared, but you made my dog run away tail between his legs. :smallmad:

[Recaiden]

I ain't here to amuse you. I'm here to amuse me. And it does.

Comments-wise I was looking for something a little less cliche. You disappoint me. I've seen over nine thousand variations.

On another note, I can't stop trying to eat this spoon. It is not eat-able. It is a spoon. A stainless steel spoon.

But doesn't it taste good?

[Kneenibble]

Mr. 0, you crack me up.

[Player_Zero]

You awful person. I was expecting something like that, so turned the volume to 5%. I wasn't scared, but you made my dog run away tail between his legs. :smallmad:
I'm a cat person anyhow. 'Sides, I already knew I'm horrible.


But doesn't it taste good?
It had the taste of gods.


Mr. 0, you crack me up.

D'aww. I wub you too.

[SoD]

I'm a cat person anyhow. 'Sides, I already knew I'm horrible.

That's right, so you are. That's why you canceled our wedding, is it not?

[Player_Zero]

That's right, so you are. That's why you canceled our wedding, is it not?

Hmmm...

Hmmmm....

HMM...
HMM... MAH BOI...

No... I think that was because we come from separate worlds. I'm a common blacksmith's apprentice, whereas you're a high-born son of a duke.

Edit: ...No... Wait... I think that was a movie I saw that one time.

[Phase]

No... I think that was because we come from separate worlds. I'm a common blacksmith's apprentice, whereas you're a high-born son of a duke.

Edit: ...No... Wait... I think that was a movie I saw that one time.

Player Zero makes me confident that helping the crocodiles gain sentience would have been the poorer choice.

[Recaiden]

Player Zero makes me confident that helping the crocodiles gain sentience would have been the poorer choice.

For most other choices, it would be. Wait, have you alreasy created sentient crocodiles? Run for your lives!

[Cristo Meyers]

For most other choices, it would be. Wait, have you alreasy created sentient crocodiles? Run for your lives!

No worries, we've already created sentient alligators to deal with the rogue sentient crocs...

[Skippy]

My fingers are hurting badly and I can hardly type. I've been playing the bass for the last two hours, for the first time in my life. It's so damn awesome...

[Phase]

No worries, we've already created sentient alligators to deal with the rogue sentient crocs...

Please. Everyone knows Crocodiles beat alligators! It's nature.

[Gray Jester]

Mini-rantamagiger:

Morals.

Such a ridiculous thing, particularly when someone else asks you to . What you do is up to you to decide. If it is right or wrong is up to you to decide. Others might disagree, but simple morals, though consistent through most of the society, are, in my opinion, personal. If you think something is right or wrong, that doesn't mean I'll agree with you. And that third person over there might have a third idea of it. Gray areas abound, and morally, it is not feasible to say that something is 'right' or 'wrong', except in your own context. So keep your moralizations of right and wrong to yourself.

[someonenonotyou]

No Alligators beat Crocodiles

[Ash08]

Mini-rantamagiger:

Morals.

Such a ridiculous thing, particularly when someone else asks you to . What you do is up to you to decide. If it is right or wrong is up to you to decide. Others might disagree, but simple morals, though consistent through most of the society, are, in my opinion, personal. If you think something is right or wrong, that doesn't mean I'll agree with you. And that third person over there might have a third idea of it. Gray areas abound, and morally, it is not feasible to say that something is 'right' or 'wrong', except in your own context. So keep your moralizations of right and wrong to yourself.

Yay! another place to rant about right and wrong! Anway, I would agree with the Gray Jester is some of the above(specificly about the gray area) Morals are specificly a point of view. I personaly support good(or what I consider to be good) but morals and right and wrong are just SO easy to twist around to fit anything. My basic way to define good from evil is to think. Does this do more harm than it does good and vise versa.

[Coidzor]

The best part about morals is when people start expecting you to make judgments when it's not even one's place to decide.

Though sometimes it does help to get an outside perspective on things if one is at a place where a decision is difficult.

See, crocodiles only win in naval engagements and amphibious assaults so long as the hippos don't get involved. And lordy, lordy, we do not want the hibbos to get involved. They're more aggressive than we are and they're herbivores to boot.

[Phase]

Mini-rantamagiger:

Morals.

The thing is, most people assume that some things are morally right or wrong. Helping a friend get back on his feet after they have a major change in lifestyle is generally seen as good, whereas killing, eating, and torturing children is seen as bad.

Assumptions can be made. "Don't kick that old guy" "Give that guy some cash" "Stop licking my soup!" "Oh God, you've killed him without him being an imminent threat or in a notion where capitol punishment is in effect!"

[Recaiden]

The thing is, most people assume that some things are morally right or wrong. Helping a friend get back on his feet after they have a major change in lifestyle is generally seen as good, whereas killing, eating, and torturing children is seen as bad.

Assumptions can be made. "Don't kick that old guy" "Give that guy some cash" "Stop licking my soup!" "Oh God, you've killed him without him being an imminent threat or in a notion where capitol punishment is in effect!"

There are just as valid arguments against any set of morals, but they kind of mess up society, sometimes even if everyone has them. So, we say, "these things are wrong, these are right", when they really are neutral, whether they seem like it or not.

[Mordokai]

So... yeah.

In about an hour and a half, I have an exam. Nothing too important, and yet, very important. Consisting of first aid, laws and some other... stuff. Basically, not too big a deal if I flunk. It won't be first time and probably not the last as well. But if I do, that means I have to start all over again and with December coming in, I'd really preffer to avoid that. If nothing else, I can't bear to go over all the stupid and boring laws once again. The problem is, I'm not sure if I studied enough. I probably didn't. What was the cause for that, best left undiscused. So, right now, I'm getting out of my PJs, putting some clothes on, start the car and go for whatever will happen. I feel irritated, panicked, slightly sad and just a tad violent as well. It's not a good morning to be me.

I just felt like getting this out of me. And no better place for it than Random Banter.

The first one that makes the "paladins are lawful good" joke gets it.

[TFT]

So... yeah.

<snip>

I just felt like getting this out of me. And no better place for it than Random Banter.

The first one that makes the "paladins are lawful good" joke gets it.

but Paladins are la-
Uhhh I mean, paladins are too be lauded. Of course that's what I meant. No joke intended

Anyways... I only have a half day of school tomorrow, and no homework due(First time in about a month) So I'm just spending right now relaxing...

[ghost_warlock]

So... yeah.

In about an hour and a half, I have an exam. Nothing too important, and yet, very important. Consisting of first aid, laws and some other... stuff. Basically, not too big a deal if I flunk. It won't be first time and probably not the last as well. But if I do, that means I have to start all over again and with December coming in, I'd really preffer to avoid that. If nothing else, I can't bear to go over all the stupid and boring laws once again. The problem is, I'm not sure if I studied enough. I probably didn't. What was the cause for that, best left undiscused. So, right now, I'm getting out of my PJs, putting some clothes on, start the car and go for whatever will happen. I feel irritated, panicked, slightly sad and just a tad violent as well. It's not a good morning to be me.

I just felt like getting this out of me. And no better place for it than Random Banter.

The first one that makes the "paladins are lawful good" joke gets it.

Good luck, Mords. To be honest, I actually kinda miss the feeling that passes for test-anxiety in GW's world. :smallfrown: But I can't say that this particular test sounds like it'd be much fun.

The sicko-biologist in me would be really interested in the first aid stuff, though, at least if there's pictures. I'm not really much of a gorehound, as it relates to movies, but RL stuff is just so...interesting. While most other people are cringing, I'm thinking 'fascinating.' The mad scientist/amoral observer in me just loves seeing how stuff fits together and falls apart.

[Coidzor]

Part of paladins have always reminded me of Saul of Tarsus who became that Paul guy. Since he never really wanted to receive the call in the first place and all, but he kept to it through it all after the call found him (since it does know where you live after all).

So I keep thinking of Mordokai as one of those less-than-willing paladins who keeps shouldering on with it due to his natural personality and duty to his role/personality.

Mordokai's becoming an EMT? Kudos!

[Phase]

Anyways... I only have a half day of school tomorrow, and no homework due(First time in about a month) So I'm just spending right now relaxing...

Same for me, but for today. The school picked this as community service day. Hooray for helping others!

[Cristo Meyers]

So... yeah.

In about an hour and a half, I have an exam. Nothing too important, and yet, very important. Consisting of first aid, laws and some other... stuff. Basically, not too big a deal if I flunk. It won't be first time and probably not the last as well. But if I do, that means I have to start all over again and with December coming in, I'd really preffer to avoid that. If nothing else, I can't bear to go over all the stupid and boring laws once again. The problem is, I'm not sure if I studied enough. I probably didn't. What was the cause for that, best left undiscused. So, right now, I'm getting out of my PJs, putting some clothes on, start the car and go for whatever will happen. I feel irritated, panicked, slightly sad and just a tad violent as well. It's not a good morning to be me.

I just felt like getting this out of me. And no better place for it than Random Banter.

The first one that makes the "paladins are lawful good" joke gets it.

It's been my personal experience that the people that always thought they've studied enough tended to find out they were sorely mistaken...

...lawful paladin says what?

[TwoBitWriter]

It's been my personal experience that the people that always thought they've studied enough tended to find out they were sorely mistaken...



That is why I stopped studying entirely! :smallbiggrin:

[Cristo Meyers]

I was one of those people that could pretty much not study at all, ever, and still manage to do decently if not well.

[TwoBitWriter]

Me too, throughout most of my school career.

Now, that doesn't mean it didn't start kinda catching up to me my last year of college, but I still managed to graduate at a 3.0...

@V Thanks, I am ready for Babeh Week!

[Fostire]

I was one of those people that could pretty much not study at all, ever, and still manage to do decently if not well.

Same here. I remember people talking on test days about how they spent days studying and how they didn't even sleep the previous night and I was thinking "why would anyone do that? I studied the whole thing in 2 hours".
I also remember after the test everyone comparing results and how they all got the same result and my result was usually completely different. When that happened I was the one who got it right (most of the time :smalltongue:)

TBW: Love the avatar :smallbiggrin:.

[Cristo Meyers]

Pretty much :smallbiggrin: Though I didn't even put in the two hours. I might, might look over notes before the exam.

I remember my HS Bio teacher pulling me aside my senior year and saying "you're not going to be able to pull this coasting thing in college like you did here..."

Sorry Mr. P, wrong again :smalltongue:

[TwoBitWriter]

I do love all the lies that high school teachers told us about what college was going to be like.

I went to a very reputable, big-name university, and it wasn't anywhere near as awful as was described to me.

[Cristo Meyers]

Only horrible thing about college was those stupid bloody "icebreaker" things they always did on the first day of class. I always wanted to make something up:

"Stand up, tell us your name and something about yourself."

"My name is Cris and I'm an Emissary from the Emirate of Oman."

...or is it Sultanate? Where's Rand when you need him?

[TwoBitWriter]

During the "Icebreakers" I did lie, several times. Nothing too big, but stuff like "When I was a teenager back in Louisiana, I used to wrestle Alligators for my Summer job." :smallbiggrin:

[Cristo Meyers]

My favorite was this:

"My name is X and by the end of the semester I will have slept with half of this class."

*looks at nearest student, male or female*

"Hey..."

[unstattedCommoner]

"my name is ... not to spoken by mere mortals."

[Mordokai]

Passed the law part and the stuff, flunked first aid :smalltongue: Oh, the bitter sweet irony!

But it's all ok, since at least those two stay :smallbiggrin: So all I have to do now is to study some more of first aid and it will all be ok.

Anybody volunteering for my test subject on internal bleedings? Bloody internal bleedings...

And thanks for all the nice words :smallsmile: Means a lot.

[TwoBitWriter]

Sure Mordy, you can take a look at my guts anytime! :smalltongue:

Er... yeah. Congratulations. I would have given encouragement before, but I just woke up a couple hours ago!

[Cristo Meyers]

Anybody volunteering for my test subject on internal bleedings? Bloody internal bleedings...


...

...what? Why is everyone looking at me?

*hug*

See? We knew you could do it.

[Mordokai]

Sure Mordy, you can take a look at my guts anytime! :smalltongue:

That was equally sweet and disturbing :smalltongue:


...

...what? Why is everyone looking at me?

*hug*

See? We knew you could do it.

*looking for a sarcastic reply*
*found none*

Awww, thanks! :smallsmile:

[TwoBitWriter]

*sings horribly*

"Lean on me, when you're not strong... and I'll be your friend... I'll help you caaarrryy onnn...."

[Serpentine]

The sicko-biologist in me would be really interested in the first aid stuff, though, at least if there's pictures. I'm not really much of a gorehound, as it relates to movies, but RL stuff is just so...interesting. While most other people are cringing, I'm thinking 'fascinating.' The mad scientist/amoral observer in me just loves seeing how stuff fits together and falls apart.Was talking to a friend of mine recently (actually, I've already mentioned him to you. Cory, the Fat Gay Bastard). He's working as a nurse. According to him, he enjoys it partly because he "wants to help people" - you know, the usual - but also because he's really interested in the human body and injuries and death and stuff. He said he'd look at other students who were fainting or getting naucious (how the bajeebus do you spell that?) or going "ew" at all the films/pictures/disections and think "How exactly are you going to cope with working with this stuff every day? :smallconfused:"

I was one of those people that could pretty much not study at all, ever, and still manage to do decently if not well.I once studied for the entirely wrong exam.
I got at least a Credit for both classes :smallamused:

Well this is good timing. I just came in to say
I'VE ALMOST FINISHED THE LAST ASSIGNMENT OF MY DEGREE :biggrin:
Only 9 days late <.<
Just have to edit it down (it's meant to be 2500 words, with 10% leeway, and references don't count, and it's currently 3,827 words including 922 reference words) and "hand" it in.

[Cristo Meyers]

Yay for Serpy!

I'd write another episode of that fic, but even being glad for someone is powerless against the might of the Writer's Block...


*sings horribly*

"Lean on me, when you're not strong... and I'll be your friend... I'll help you caaarrryy onnn...."

Oi! That's my schtick!


*looking for a sarcastic reply*
*found none*

Awww, thanks!

Don't tempt me paladin...

[TwoBitWriter]

Oi! That's my schtick!


That's why I made sure to indicate that I was singing badly...
You aren't a bard that sings badly, are you?

I remember the last bard I made for D&D wasn't a singer, he was a stand-up comedian...

[Serpentine]

Because I feel like it, here is the whole (not-quite-completely-edited) essay. If anyone is so utterly bored that they read the whole thing, any advice/correction/whatever is most appreciated, and I really need a better title.

Coral Reefs on the Edge

Assignment #2
A Review of the Management of the Tropical Marine Ornamental Live Trade

The marine aquarium trade is a multi-billion dollar international enterprise. It involves fish, live rock, and echinoderms, crustaceans, molluscs, hard and soft corals, and other invertebrates. The vast majority of traded specimens are wild-caught on coral reefs in small, developing, tropical nations, and are destined for markets in the US, Eastern Europe and other wealthy regions. Although fairly benign and small-scale relative to other anthropogenic reef impacts, the collection and trade of marine species entails its own, often unique, threats and issues. These include physical impacts on habitat, depletion of species, changes in community structure, the spread of pathogens and introduction of alien species, and animal welfare concerns. Heightened awareness and interest in the environmental costs of the marine ornamental trade, accompanying its escalation, has resulted in worldwide pressure on collectors, traders, retailers and consumers to assess the damage and scale of the trade, improve collection and handling methods, and manage all its impacts through legal regulations, education, technological advancements, development of alternatives and product certification.
Tropical marine fish were originally collected in small numbers in Sri Lanka in the 1930s (Sadovy & Vincent 2002:396,400; Wabnitz et al 2003:9). The occupation expanded in scope, abundance and variety during the 1950s into other island and developing nations with reefs (Helfman 2007:374; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:400; Wabnitz et al 2003:6). Most aquarium species are collected from Southeast Asia, and island nations in the Indian and Pacific Oceans (Sadovy & Vincent 2002:396-7; Vincent 2006:192; Wabnitz et al 2003:6). Many of the exporting nations are small and developing (Helfman 2007:374; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:391; Wabnitz et al 2003:6), and many of the collectors are rural, low-income islanders and coastal people working in small, often family, groups either for themselves or a wholesaler or exporter employer (Wabnitz et al 2003:6,12). These ground-level traders often have few alternative means of employment (Wabnitz et al 2003:6).
Fish, coral, and other invertebrates are all in high demand for private, commercial and public aquariums (Sadovy & Vincent 2002:397; Vincent 2006:194; Wabnitz et al 2003:6). The main importers of wild-captured aquarium species are the United States of America, Europe, and to a lesser extent Japan (Bruckner 2002:2,4; Gasparini et al 2005:2884; Helfman 2007:375-6; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:394,397; Vincent 2006:193-4; Wabnitz et al 2003:6,19,25). As many as 2 million households around the world own a marine aquarium, more than a quarter in the US (Helfman 2007:376-7; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:397; Vincent 2006:194; Wabnitz et al 2003:9). Exotic marine animals are very valuable, and commerce in them very lucrative (Sadovy & Vincent 2002:400; Vincent 2006:195; Wabnitz et al 2003:6). The trade is worth more than US$200 million annually (Bruckner 2002:1; Helfman 2007:374; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:391,400; Vincent 2006:195; Wabnitz et al 2003:9).
Nearly 1,500 species of fish, represented by more than 20 million individuals, are traded worldwide every year (Gasparini et al 2005:2884; Helfman 2007:374; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:394,400; Vincent 2006:190,194; Wabnitz et al 2003:6-7). Most of these are species of damselfish (Pomacentridae), angelfish (Pomacanthridae), surgeonfish (Acanthuridae), wrasses (Labridae), gobies (Gobiidae) and butterflyfish (Chaetodontidae) (Gasparini et al 2005:2885; Helfman 2007:376; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:394; Vincent 2006:190-1; Wabnitz et al 2003:7,18-20). About 12 million pieces of approximately 140 species of stony corals and 61 species of soft corals are traded annually (Bruckner 2002:2; Vincent 2006:191,194; Wabnitz et al 2003:7-8). Up to 500 species, or about 10 million individuals, of other invertebrates, in particular molluscs, shrimps and anemones, are also traded annually (Vincent 2006:192,194; Wabnitz et al 2003:8).
While the impact of even very poor live collection practices is small in comparison to the larger-scale anthropogenic damage of pollution, tourism, food fishing, bleaching, and so on, the ornamental trade has the potential to exacerbate these pressures (Gasparini et al 2005:2888; Helfman 2007:374,383; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:391; Wabnitz et al 2003:10,42,58). On the other hand, if managed well live specimen collection can cause minimal damage to sites (Wabnitz et al 2003:10), and the high value of live trade can be a powerful incentive for local collectors to protect the reefs upon which their livelihoods depend (Helfman 2007:391; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:391; Wabnitz et al 2003:10). At the other end of the market, public marine aquaria can provide important educational opportunities to inform people of the ecology, fragility, and conservation needs of marine environments (Helfman 2007:374,392-3; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:417; Wabnitz et al 2003:10).
Several marine species are commonly traded despite the difficulty keeping them, including a number whose dietary requirements and other characteristics render them “truly unsuitable” for aquariums. Many of these, which include corals, particularly azooxanthellate species, and obligate corallivores, normally die within a very short time (Bruckner 2002:2; Gasparini et al 2005:2891; Helfman 2007:379-80,402-3; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:403; Wabnitz et al 2003:7-8,25,43-6). Some traded species, moreover, are on the IUCN Red List of Threatened Animals as “vulnerable” (Sadovy & Vincent 2002:407).
Insufficient care in the collection, handling and transport of marine animals can stress, damage, or kill many individuals (Bruckner 2002:3; Gasparini et al 2005:2887; Helfman 2007:374,380-2; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:392,401-3; Vincent 2006:192; Wabnitz et al 2003:6,10,46-7). Fish, in particular, are sensitive to prolonged travel, incorrect packaging, disease, aggression, water chemistry, and other stressors that can result in increased mortality (Gasparini et al 2005:2887; Helfman 2007:380-1; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:401-3; Wabnitz et al 2003:13,46-7). It is in the traders’ own interest, however, for the specimens to at least reach the customer alive and reasonably well. Thus many trade organisms are treated with great care and increasing investment in equipment and training are helping to minimise fatalities (Helfman 2007:380; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:395,401-3; Wabnitz et al 2003:13,47). Expanding involvement of “transhippers”, who simply collect the animals from the airport, take them through customs and distribute them to retailers, as opposed to wholesalers who also acclimatize and check the animals, places many traded specimens at risk of greater mortality (Wabnitz et al 2003:13-4). However, widespread criticism and pressure from the Marine Aquarium Council has encouraged transhipping companies to improve their procedures (Wabnitz et al 2003:12).
Despite the great variety of animals collected, it is very selective and species-intensive. Over-harvesting of some species may threaten their viability and in some cases result in local extinction (Gasparini et al 2005:2891; Helfman 2007:383; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:392; Vincent 2006:196; Wabnitz et al 2003:6,10,31,35). Studies and anecdotal evidence of fish harvesting found that many of the heaviest-targeted species decrease in number under collection pressure, though others, and other sites, showed little or no decrease (Bruckner 2002:3; Gasparini et al 2005:2888-9; Helfman 2007:383-5; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:410-1; Wabnitz et al 2003:36). One study on the impact of coral harvesting found that heavy use resulted in a reduction of 31% in coral cover and 64% of coral density and a decline of more than 70% in abundance of six popular corals (Wabnitz et al 2003:36). Such an impact on coral populations may have long-term effects on their reproduction, and therefore on the stability and health of the reef as a whole (Bruckner 2002:3; Helfman 2007:379; Vincent 2006:196; Wabnitz et al 2003:37).
The risk of over-harvesting is heightened where the species is also under other pressures (Gasparini et al 2005:2888,2890; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:410; Vincent 2006:192; Wabnitz et al 2003:31,42,45). Several species of giant clam (Tridacna spp.), for example are, as well as popular ornamentals, harvested as a subsistence and delicacy food, an aphrodisiac, and for their shells for decorative and practical purposes. As a result they are subject to over-harvesting by legal operators and poachers and consequent depletion in the wild (Lucas 1994; Vincent 2006:192; Wabnitz et al 2003:31,42). In response a number of source countries are placing restrictions on the trade of giant clams, applying quotas, banning their export or collection outright, or limiting export to cultured specimens and improving farming of vulnerable species (Wabnitz et al 2003:32,42).
The selective collection of individuals of a particular size, sex, colouration or other feature may further impact upon the fitness of the population as a whole. The selective collection of juvenile fish, a common occurrence due to their greater attractiveness and hardiness, may be beneficial in maintaining the adult breeding stock, but also risks depleting the pool of replacements (Bruckner 2002:3; Helfman 2007:383; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:394-5,406; Vincent 2006:191,196; Wabnitz et al 2003:39-40). The preference of consumers and, consequently, of collectors for the more aesthetically pleasing males can cause drastically unequal sex ratios, reproductive failure and potentially the collapse of populations (Sadovy & Vincent 2002:394-5,400,406,408; Vincent 2006:196; Wabnitz et al 2003:42). Sexual selection can also effect hermaphroditic fish such as anemonefish, where the largest and strongest is always the female and repeated removal of the female can result in a smaller and less viable wild population (Helfman 2007:383; Sadovy & Vincent 2002: 394-5,400,406-8; Vincent 2006:196; Wabnitz et al 2003:39). As well as potentially driving prices, the abundance and distribution of fish species can determine their vulnerability to exploitation (Gasparini et al 2005:2890; Helfman 2007:377; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:391,395,400,405; Vincent 2006:191; Wabnitz et al 2003:40). Variations in distribution can mean that a species rare and thus vulnerable at one site may be abundant and therefore able to cope with greater harvesting (Sadovy & Vincent 2002:407; Vincent 2006:196; Wabnitz et al 2003:40).
Over-harvesting of keystone species may affect their ecosystem, altering reef communities and potentially causing phase shifts (Bruckner 2002:3; Gasparini et al 2005:2888,2891; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:392; Wabnitz et al 2003:6,35). There is evidence that the depletion of herbivorous fish such as surgeonfishes does not necessarily lead to an increase in algal cover, but it is a potential problem (Bruckner 2002:3; Helfman 2007:389; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:412; Wabnitz et al 2003:36). The removal of predators, too, has the potential to cause an outbreak in prey species (Sadovy & Vincent 2002:411-2). The intense harvesting of an animal upon which another depends may have impacts beyond the reduction in the population of the target animal itself. The collection of sea anemones, for example, has been demonstrated to reduce the population of their obligate symbiont anemone fish beyond the impact of their own harvesting (Gasparini et al 2005:2891; Wabnitz et al 2003:37).
Conversely, some aquarium fish have been introduced, deliberately or accidentally by individuals, farmers and traders, into areas in which they are not naturally found, and so threaten to become invasive and alter their new ecosystem or to introduce foreign pathogens. Difficult to keep species may be abandoned by owners when they become too much trouble, and escapes from hatcheries in non-source countries are common (Helfman 2007:386-9; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:412; Wabnitz et al 2003:47).
Some methods of collecting aquarium species are destructive to their habitat (Sadovy & Vincent 2002:401; Wabnitz et al 2003:6,10). In the past, Sri Lankan collectors would scare fish into small cast nets by hitting the coral with a stick, damaging the coral (Wabnitz et al 2003:12). Branching corals are often broken to capture the fish, such as members of the Dascyllus and Chromis genera, that shelter in them (Gasparini et al 2005:2888; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:411; Wabnitz et al 2003:12,33). Sodium cyanide, quinaldine or other chemicals squirted in underwater crevices stuns many fish and allows them to be more easily captured live (Bruckner 2002:3; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:401; Wabnitz et al 2003:10,12,33).
These chemicals are detrimental to the health of both the captured individuals and those left behind and increases the mortality of fish in transit, necessitating that more fish be collected than would be otherwise to replace losses (Bruckner 2002:3; Helfman 2007:378,380; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:401-2; Wabnitz et al 2003:10,12,33). They are also toxic to coral and other non-target organisms (Bruckner 2002:3; Helfman 2007:378; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:401-2,411-2; Wabnitz et al 2003:10,12,33-4). This method is used in such places as Indonesia and the Philippines; in the latter country as much as 80-90% of marine ornamental reef fish captured in the mid 1980s (Bruckner 2002:3; Helfman 2007:378; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:401; Vincent 2006:192; Wabnitz et al 2003:12,34). Despite legislation against this practice in many countries, corruption of officials, the ease and lucrativeness of the method and difficulty of policing has allowed it to run largely unchecked throughout south-east Asia (Bruckner 2002:3; Helfman 2007:378-9; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:401; Vincent 2006:192; Wabnitz et al 2003:34).
Other means of motile animal collection, such as often highly-specialised hand and cast nets and fishing lines, can cause minimal damage to the habitat and stress to the fish. Actual impacts often depend upon experience and training (Gasparini et al 2005:2887; Helfman 2007:378; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:401-3,412; Vincent 2006:192; Wabnitz et al 2003:12).
The collection of corals, live rock and other immobile organisms and materials require brute physical force and by necessity involve damage to the reef, but generally the damage is very small and localised (Bruckner 2002:2; Gasparini et al 2005:2887; Wabnitz et al 2003:12). At some collection sites, such as rocky and soft bottom habitats, the corals can be collected without damaging any reef (Wabnitz et al 2003:33). Usually whole small colonies of hard and soft corals are taken, although sometimes fragments are instead (Wabnitz et al 2003:12).
Live rock is limestone laid down over several millennia and encrusted with coralline algae and invertebrates (Bruckner 2002:2; Helfman 2007:379; Vincent 2006:191). It has been demonstrated that heavy harvesting of live rock can cause serious damage to reefs, increasing erosion, loss of habitat, deterioration of the substrate and in extreme cases causing a phase shift from coral to algal reefs (Bruckner 2002:2; Helfman 2007:379; Wabnitz et al 2003:33). A number of businesses are farming live rock by placing land-quarried limestone in areas of speedy marine flora and fauna growth, a less destructive method than wild collection (Bruckner 2002:5; Helfman 2007:379).
Other resources are farmed to ease pressure on natural ecosystems (Bruckner 2002:5; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:415-6; Wabnitz et al 2003:8). The captive breeding of ornamental species reduces the need for capture and increases the overall abundance of these species (Bruckner 2002:5; Helfman 2007:401; Wabnitz et al 2003:41,49,51). At present only very few fish and even fewer corals are so raised, despite many determined to be potentially well suited to captive breeding (Bruckner 2002:5; Helfman 2007:401; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:397; Vincent 2006:192; Wabnitz et al 2003:8,9,10,25,50-1). The Banggai cardinalfish (Pterapogon kauderni), a popular species abundant within only a small range and the overexploited seahorses (Hippocapus spp.) are fish that would benefit from captive rearing and developments to this end have been implemented (Gasparini et al 2005:2890; Helfman 2007:395-7,401; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:410; Wabnitz et al 2003:41,52-3). Presently commercial-scale mariculture remains an expensive and problematic venture in most cases (Helfman 2007:401; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:416). This is due in large part to the difficulties of raising successive generations (Bruckner 2002:5; Helfman 2007:401; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:416; Wabnitz et al 2003:51-2). Another possibility for fish is a variety of mariculture that involves the capture of larvae with light traps or specialised nets (Wabnitz et al 2003:52). The high death rate in the wild and success rate of captured larvae mean the ecological impact of this method would be minimal (Wabnitz et al 2003:54), while the unpredictability of larval dispersal, timing and species composition is a difficulty (Wabnitz et al 2003:54).
Many hard and soft corals are also suitable for aquaculture, and moreover corals so grown are demonstrably easier to transfer to aquarium conditions than wild harvested (Bruckner 2002:5; Helfman 2007:379; Wabnitz et al 2003:49-50). Despite this, very few of the corals traded are of “domesticated” origin (Bruckner 2002:5; Wabnitz et al 2003:50). The application of marine ornamental farming is hindered by the fact that most popular species are slow and difficult to grow, and the high start-up and operating costs and relatively low profit of fledgling operations (Bruckner 2002:5; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:416; Wabnitz et al 2003:50).
Of other invertebrates, a lack of information on life histories means that few steps have been made towards developing the cultivation of many, other than the relatively straightforward and well-understood giant clams (Tridacna spp.) and several species of decorative shrimp (Lysmata and Stenopus spp.) (Wabnitz et al 2003:53-4). Heightened interest and further research in mariculture technology promise greater application to trade and conservation in the future (Bruckner 2002:5; Helfman 2007:401; Wabnitz et al 2003:8,9,10,49,51-2). However, the wider, potentially detrimental effects of mariculture on reef and other habitats due to land developments for the facilities and discharge into the environment must be considered and monitored (Bruckner 2002:5,6; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:416,419).By developing these mariculture farms in the poorer nations, local collectors can continue their part in the trade with no loss of income and greater ecological sustainability. Unfortunately most already established are situated in wealthy countries such as the US (Helfman 2007:401-2; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:416; Wabnitz et al 2003:11,41).
Comprehensive understanding of the life-cycles and ecologies of marine ornamental species, their trade statistics and quantitative evidence of the impacts of different sections of the aquarium trade on the environment, not only on a global scale but also a nation-by-nation basis, are necessary for the sustainable application of quotas, other restrictions, trade and general management of coral reef organisms (Bruckner 2002:6; Gasparini et al 2005:2892; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:407,413-4,418; Wabnitz et al 2003:24,38,54-5,58). The recruitment and growth rates of different marine species and individual reefs, for example, can determine how readily a species or reef can recover from harvesting and other impacts (Bruckner 2002:2-3; Gasparini et al 2005:2890-1; Vincent 2006:191; Wabnitz et al 2003:38).
Much data on coral reef organisms, specifically hard corals, live rock and seahorses, has been collected by the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora (CITES) since 1985. CITES classifies species according to vulnerability and provides a management framework for the marine ornamental trade (Bruckner 2002:2,4). Since 2000, the United Nations Environment Programme World Conservation Monitoring Centre (UNEP-WCMC) in collaboration with the Marine Aquarium Council and various aquarium trade associations have been collecting quantitative trade data from wholesale exporters and importers of marine aquarium organisms (Helfman 2007:376; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:414; Wabnitz et al 2003:6,11,16-7). The resulting Global Marine Aquarium Database (GMAD) provides extensive information essential to the sustainable and environmentally friendly management of the live ornamental fish and invertebrate trade (Gasparini et al 2005:2884; Helfman 2007:376,403; Wabnitz et al 2003:6,11).
National legislation has been implemented in many places to restrict when, how many, which and with what methods animals can be collected (Sadovy & Vincent 2002:417; Wabnitz et al 2003:8,14). Export quotas, especially at a species-specific level, limit the numbers of individuals that can be collected and thus the pressure on stocks (Bruckner 2002:4-5; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:415; Wabnitz et al 2003:14,55). Some countries establish sites in which it is forbidden to collect anything at all. Marine reserves, which should ideally be very large and encompass a variety of habitats, can increase fish stocks and protect ecosystems from fishing-related damage (Bruckner 2002:4,6; Helfman 2007:400; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:415; Wabnitz et al 2003:14,48,56-7). In some cases, site exploitation is permissible only for a very specific group of people, generally one that has intrinsic cultural ties to the area or utility, with the expectation that they will possess a sense of ownership and therefore responsibility for the welfare of such places (Wabnitz et al 2003:57). Alternatively, carefully timed and placed temporary closures of fishing areas protect fish stocks at a critical point, usually reproductive events (Bruckner 2002:6; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:415; Wabnitz et al 2003:57).
Another commonly employed option, to varying degrees of effectiveness, is the use of permits to limit and monitor the number of people collecting (Bruckner 2002:4; Helfman 2007:399; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:415; Wabnitz et al 2003:48,54). Size limits can also be useful, with a minimum size to prevent wastage of stock through increased mortality of sensitive juveniles or to allow individuals to reproduce prior capture and maximum to maintain numbers of breeding adults or, in the case of corals, mature and habitat-building colonies (Sadovy & Vincent 2002:415; Wabnitz et al 2003:56).
Many nations have banned the use of destructive collection methods such as coral-whacking, and in particular the extremely harmful cyanide fishing, but with limited success (Bruckner 2002:3-4; Helfman 2007:378-9; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:415; Vincent 2006:192; Wabnitz et al 2003:12,14,34,55). More successful to this end have been intense education programs, public media campaigns and cyanide-detection facilities (Bruckner 2002:3-4; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:401; Wabnitz et al 2003:34). The best hope of truly suppressing the use of poisons in the collection of aquarium fish is an increase in the quality, strength and persistence of all these methods within the source nations, as well as pressure from consumers for more sustainable collection techniques (Bruckner 2002:4; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:401,417; Wabnitz et al 2003:34-5).
Certification of specimens collected with environmentally sustainable methods allows the consumer to selectively purchase those animals and so personally reduce the impact of the marine ornamental trade through market pressure (Helfman 2007:378,403; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:417; Wabnitz et al 2003:8,11,48). This certification has begun, with the development of the Marine Aquarium Council (MAC) certification process (Bruckner 2002:4; Helfman 2007:378,403; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:417; Wabnitz et al 2003:11,48-9). This body assesses specimens at every point between harvest and sale. Certification is based on: the habitat, stock, species management and ecological impacts and sustainability at the collection site (Ecosystem and Fishery Management (EFM) Core Standard); methods of collection, handling and transport of specimens at the source (Collection, Fishing and Holding (CFH) Core Standard); and transport, handling, segregation and documentation during the journey to retail (Gasparini et al 2005:2892; Helfman 2007:403; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:401; Wabnitz et al 2003:11,49). In addition, this certification process provides a system for monitoring the populations and any changes in the animals at collection sites (Wabnitz et al 2003:49).
Communication and cooperation with and consideration for the needs and livelihoods of the poorer people who make up the majority of the base of exotic ornamental trade is essential for the long-term effectiveness of conservation efforts (Bruckner 2002:5-6; Helfman 2007:403; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:416-7; Wabnitz et al 2003:8,54,57,58). In many cases of conservation success it is these collector communities who themselves take the responsibility for protecting and managing their reef workplaces (Sadovy & Vincent 2002:415; Wabnitz et al 2003:26,54,57). The people of the Fijian village of Malomalo, for example, raised concerns over the long-term impact of their live rock harvesting industry and worked with the WWF, MAC and their government to develop policies and processes for its management. Furthermore, they themselves allocated a no-take sanctuary zone within their traditional fishing grounds (Wabnitz et al 2003:26).
Legislation and mariculture are important for the management of the marine tropical live trade. Essential to both these methods and the overall success of sustainable ornamental harvesting, however, is constant and considerate communication with and education of the generally low-income collectors and high-end consumers, and the gathering of trade data and ecological and biological information of exploited organisms and habitats. Without the cooperation of the people involved and the information to determine best practice, any efforts towards sustainability are doomed, or at least heavily handicapped. With these means, however, the detrimental impacts of the marine ornamental trade can be minimised, and its positive capacities for education, aesthetic enjoyment and psychological benefits fully capitalized.



Bruckner, Andrew W., 2000, ‘New threat to coral reefs: trade in coral organisms’, Issues in Science and Technology

Gasparini, J.L., Floeter, S.R., Ferreira, C.E.L. & Sazima, I., 2005, ‘Marine ornamental trade in Brazil’, Biodiversity and Conservation, 14:2883-99, Springer

Helfman, Gene S., 2007, Fish Conservation: A Guide to Understanding and Restoring Global Aquatic Biodiversity and Fishery Resources, Island Press, Washington

Lucas, J.S., 1994, ‘The biology, exploitation, and mariculture of giant clams (Tridacnnidae)’, Reviews in Fisheries Science, vol 1, no. 3, pp 181-224

Sadovy, Yvonne J. & Vincent, Amanda C.J., 2002, ‘Ecological issues and the trades in live reef fishes’, Coral Reef Fishes, ed. Peter F. Sale, Elsevier Science, San Diego

Vincent, Amanda C.J., 2006, ‘Live food and non-food fisheries on coral reefs, and their potential management’, Coral Reef Conservation, ed. Isabelle M. Côté & John D. Reynolds, Cambridge University Press, Cambridge

Wabnitz, C., Taylor, M., Green, E. & Razak, T., 2003, From Ocean to Aquarium: The Global Trade in Marine Ornamental Species, UNEP-WCMC, Cambridge
Now that, my friends, is a freaking Wall of Text.

[Mr. Mud]

That's why I made sure to indicate that I was singing badly...
You aren't a bard that sings badly, are you?

I remember the last bard I made for D&D wasn't a singer, he was a stand-up comedian...

My last bard was a stand-up comedian too!... G Gordon Liddy (http://leftwingconspiracy.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/motivator9436376.jpg)! :smallbiggrin:

*Note: Please don't look at the URL :smallwink:

@ Serp: Yeah... I never liked parenthetical-documentation either... :smalltongue:

[Mordokai]

Don't tempt me paladin...

Aw, coooome oooon! :smallfrown: [/whiny voice]

[Serpentine]

@ Serp: Yeah... I never liked parenthetical-documentation either... :smalltongue:Down with Author-Date/In-Text Referencing! Up the Footnotes!
It's such a pain for finding the word-count :smallyuk:

[Cristo Meyers]

Aw, coooome oooon! :smallfrown: [/whiny voice]

Fine...

*clears throat*

So does this mean you're no longer qualified to Lay On Hands?

*ba-dum-tish*


Because I feel like it, here is the whole (not-quite-completely-edited) essay. If anyone is so utterly bored that they read the whole thing, any advice/correction/whatever is most appreciated, and I really need a better title.

Coral Reefs on the Edge

Assignment #2
A Review of the Management of the Tropical Marine Ornamental Live Trade

The marine aquarium trade is a multi-billion dollar international enterprise. It involves fish, live rock, and echinoderms, crustaceans, molluscs, hard and soft corals, and other invertebrates. The vast majority of traded specimens are wild-caught on coral reefs in small, developing, tropical nations, and are destined for markets in the US, Eastern Europe and other wealthy regions. Although fairly benign and small-scale relative to other anthropogenic reef impacts, the collection and trade of marine species entails its own, often unique, threats and issues. These include physical impacts on habitat, depletion of species, changes in community structure, the spread of pathogens and introduction of alien species, and animal welfare concerns. Heightened awareness and interest in the environmental costs of the marine ornamental trade, accompanying its escalation, has resulted in worldwide pressure on collectors, traders, retailers and consumers to assess the damage and scale of the trade, improve collection and handling methods, and manage all its impacts through legal regulations, education, technological advancements, development of alternatives and product certification.
Tropical marine fish were originally collected in small numbers in Sri Lanka in the 1930s (Sadovy & Vincent 2002:396,400; Wabnitz et al 2003:9). The occupation expanded in scope, abundance and variety during the 1950s into other island and developing nations with reefs (Helfman 2007:374; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:400; Wabnitz et al 2003:6). Most aquarium species are collected from Southeast Asia, and island nations in the Indian and Pacific Oceans (Sadovy & Vincent 2002:396-7; Vincent 2006:192; Wabnitz et al 2003:6). Many of the exporting nations are small and developing (Helfman 2007:374; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:391; Wabnitz et al 2003:6), and many of the collectors are rural, low-income islanders and coastal people working in small, often family, groups either for themselves or a wholesaler or exporter employer (Wabnitz et al 2003:6,12). These ground-level traders often have few alternative means of employment (Wabnitz et al 2003:6).
Fish, coral, and other invertebrates are all in high demand for private, commercial and public aquariums (Sadovy & Vincent 2002:397; Vincent 2006:194; Wabnitz et al 2003:6). The main importers of wild-captured aquarium species are the United States of America, Europe, and to a lesser extent Japan (Bruckner 2002:2,4; Gasparini et al 2005:2884; Helfman 2007:375-6; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:394,397; Vincent 2006:193-4; Wabnitz et al 2003:6,19,25). As many as 2 million households around the world own a marine aquarium, more than a quarter in the US (Helfman 2007:376-7; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:397; Vincent 2006:194; Wabnitz et al 2003:9). Exotic marine animals are very valuable, and commerce in them very lucrative (Sadovy & Vincent 2002:400; Vincent 2006:195; Wabnitz et al 2003:6). The trade is worth more than US$200 million annually (Bruckner 2002:1; Helfman 2007:374; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:391,400; Vincent 2006:195; Wabnitz et al 2003:9).
Nearly 1,500 species of fish, represented by more than 20 million individuals, are traded worldwide every year (Gasparini et al 2005:2884; Helfman 2007:374; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:394,400; Vincent 2006:190,194; Wabnitz et al 2003:6-7). Most of these are species of damselfish (Pomacentridae), angelfish (Pomacanthridae), surgeonfish (Acanthuridae), wrasses (Labridae), gobies (Gobiidae) and butterflyfish (Chaetodontidae) (Gasparini et al 2005:2885; Helfman 2007:376; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:394; Vincent 2006:190-1; Wabnitz et al 2003:7,18-20). About 12 million pieces of approximately 140 species of stony corals and 61 species of soft corals are traded annually (Bruckner 2002:2; Vincent 2006:191,194; Wabnitz et al 2003:7-8). Up to 500 species, or about 10 million individuals, of other invertebrates, in particular molluscs, shrimps and anemones, are also traded annually (Vincent 2006:192,194; Wabnitz et al 2003:8).
While the impact of even very poor live collection practices is small in comparison to the larger-scale anthropogenic damage of pollution, tourism, food fishing, bleaching, and so on, the ornamental trade has the potential to exacerbate these pressures (Gasparini et al 2005:2888; Helfman 2007:374,383; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:391; Wabnitz et al 2003:10,42,58). On the other hand, if managed well live specimen collection can cause minimal damage to sites (Wabnitz et al 2003:10), and the high value of live trade can be a powerful incentive for local collectors to protect the reefs upon which their livelihoods depend (Helfman 2007:391; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:391; Wabnitz et al 2003:10). At the other end of the market, public marine aquaria can provide important educational opportunities to inform people of the ecology, fragility, and conservation needs of marine environments (Helfman 2007:374,392-3; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:417; Wabnitz et al 2003:10).
Several marine species are commonly traded despite the difficulty keeping them, including a number whose dietary requirements and other characteristics render them “truly unsuitable” for aquariums. Many of these, which include corals, particularly azooxanthellate species, and obligate corallivores, normally die within a very short time (Bruckner 2002:2; Gasparini et al 2005:2891; Helfman 2007:379-80,402-3; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:403; Wabnitz et al 2003:7-8,25,43-6). Some traded species, moreover, are on the IUCN Red List of Threatened Animals as “vulnerable” (Sadovy & Vincent 2002:407).
Insufficient care in the collection, handling and transport of marine animals can stress, damage, or kill many individuals (Bruckner 2002:3; Gasparini et al 2005:2887; Helfman 2007:374,380-2; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:392,401-3; Vincent 2006:192; Wabnitz et al 2003:6,10,46-7). Fish, in particular, are sensitive to prolonged travel, incorrect packaging, disease, aggression, water chemistry, and other stressors that can result in increased mortality (Gasparini et al 2005:2887; Helfman 2007:380-1; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:401-3; Wabnitz et al 2003:13,46-7). It is in the traders’ own interest, however, for the specimens to at least reach the customer alive and reasonably well. Thus many trade organisms are treated with great care and increasing investment in equipment and training are helping to minimise fatalities (Helfman 2007:380; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:395,401-3; Wabnitz et al 2003:13,47). Expanding involvement of “transhippers”, who simply collect the animals from the airport, take them through customs and distribute them to retailers, as opposed to wholesalers who also acclimatize and check the animals, places many traded specimens at risk of greater mortality (Wabnitz et al 2003:13-4). However, widespread criticism and pressure from the Marine Aquarium Council has encouraged transhipping companies to improve their procedures (Wabnitz et al 2003:12).
Despite the great variety of animals collected, it is very selective and species-intensive. Over-harvesting of some species may threaten their viability and in some cases result in local extinction (Gasparini et al 2005:2891; Helfman 2007:383; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:392; Vincent 2006:196; Wabnitz et al 2003:6,10,31,35). Studies and anecdotal evidence of fish harvesting found that many of the heaviest-targeted species decrease in number under collection pressure, though others, and other sites, showed little or no decrease (Bruckner 2002:3; Gasparini et al 2005:2888-9; Helfman 2007:383-5; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:410-1; Wabnitz et al 2003:36). One study on the impact of coral harvesting found that heavy use resulted in a reduction of 31% in coral cover and 64% of coral density and a decline of more than 70% in abundance of six popular corals (Wabnitz et al 2003:36). Such an impact on coral populations may have long-term effects on their reproduction, and therefore on the stability and health of the reef as a whole (Bruckner 2002:3; Helfman 2007:379; Vincent 2006:196; Wabnitz et al 2003:37).
The risk of over-harvesting is heightened where the species is also under other pressures (Gasparini et al 2005:2888,2890; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:410; Vincent 2006:192; Wabnitz et al 2003:31,42,45). Several species of giant clam (Tridacna spp.), for example are, as well as popular ornamentals, harvested as a subsistence and delicacy food, an aphrodisiac, and for their shells for decorative and practical purposes. As a result they are subject to over-harvesting by legal operators and poachers and consequent depletion in the wild (Lucas 1994; Vincent 2006:192; Wabnitz et al 2003:31,42). In response a number of source countries are placing restrictions on the trade of giant clams, applying quotas, banning their export or collection outright, or limiting export to cultured specimens and improving farming of vulnerable species (Wabnitz et al 2003:32,42).
The selective collection of individuals of a particular size, sex, colouration or other feature may further impact upon the fitness of the population as a whole. The selective collection of juvenile fish, a common occurrence due to their greater attractiveness and hardiness, may be beneficial in maintaining the adult breeding stock, but also risks depleting the pool of replacements (Bruckner 2002:3; Helfman 2007:383; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:394-5,406; Vincent 2006:191,196; Wabnitz et al 2003:39-40). The preference of consumers and, consequently, of collectors for the more aesthetically pleasing males can cause drastically unequal sex ratios, reproductive failure and potentially the collapse of populations (Sadovy & Vincent 2002:394-5,400,406,408; Vincent 2006:196; Wabnitz et al 2003:42). Sexual selection can also effect hermaphroditic fish such as anemonefish, where the largest and strongest is always the female and repeated removal of the female can result in a smaller and less viable wild population (Helfman 2007:383; Sadovy & Vincent 2002: 394-5,400,406-8; Vincent 2006:196; Wabnitz et al 2003:39). As well as potentially driving prices, the abundance and distribution of fish species can determine their vulnerability to exploitation (Gasparini et al 2005:2890; Helfman 2007:377; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:391,395,400,405; Vincent 2006:191; Wabnitz et al 2003:40). Variations in distribution can mean that a species rare and thus vulnerable at one site may be abundant and therefore able to cope with greater harvesting (Sadovy & Vincent 2002:407; Vincent 2006:196; Wabnitz et al 2003:40).
Over-harvesting of keystone species may affect their ecosystem, altering reef communities and potentially causing phase shifts (Bruckner 2002:3; Gasparini et al 2005:2888,2891; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:392; Wabnitz et al 2003:6,35). There is evidence that the depletion of herbivorous fish such as surgeonfishes does not necessarily lead to an increase in algal cover, but it is a potential problem (Bruckner 2002:3; Helfman 2007:389; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:412; Wabnitz et al 2003:36). The removal of predators, too, has the potential to cause an outbreak in prey species (Sadovy & Vincent 2002:411-2). The intense harvesting of an animal upon which another depends may have impacts beyond the reduction in the population of the target animal itself. The collection of sea anemones, for example, has been demonstrated to reduce the population of their obligate symbiont anemone fish beyond the impact of their own harvesting (Gasparini et al 2005:2891; Wabnitz et al 2003:37).
Conversely, some aquarium fish have been introduced, deliberately or accidentally by individuals, farmers and traders, into areas in which they are not naturally found, and so threaten to become invasive and alter their new ecosystem or to introduce foreign pathogens. Difficult to keep species may be abandoned by owners when they become too much trouble, and escapes from hatcheries in non-source countries are common (Helfman 2007:386-9; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:412; Wabnitz et al 2003:47).
Some methods of collecting aquarium species are destructive to their habitat (Sadovy & Vincent 2002:401; Wabnitz et al 2003:6,10). In the past, Sri Lankan collectors would scare fish into small cast nets by hitting the coral with a stick, damaging the coral (Wabnitz et al 2003:12). Branching corals are often broken to capture the fish, such as members of the Dascyllus and Chromis genera, that shelter in them (Gasparini et al 2005:2888; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:411; Wabnitz et al 2003:12,33). Sodium cyanide, quinaldine or other chemicals squirted in underwater crevices stuns many fish and allows them to be more easily captured live (Bruckner 2002:3; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:401; Wabnitz et al 2003:10,12,33).
These chemicals are detrimental to the health of both the captured individuals and those left behind and increases the mortality of fish in transit, necessitating that more fish be collected than would be otherwise to replace losses (Bruckner 2002:3; Helfman 2007:378,380; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:401-2; Wabnitz et al 2003:10,12,33). They are also toxic to coral and other non-target organisms (Bruckner 2002:3; Helfman 2007:378; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:401-2,411-2; Wabnitz et al 2003:10,12,33-4). This method is used in such places as Indonesia and the Philippines; in the latter country as much as 80-90% of marine ornamental reef fish captured in the mid 1980s (Bruckner 2002:3; Helfman 2007:378; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:401; Vincent 2006:192; Wabnitz et al 2003:12,34). Despite legislation against this practice in many countries, corruption of officials, the ease and lucrativeness of the method and difficulty of policing has allowed it to run largely unchecked throughout south-east Asia (Bruckner 2002:3; Helfman 2007:378-9; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:401; Vincent 2006:192; Wabnitz et al 2003:34).
Other means of motile animal collection, such as often highly-specialised hand and cast nets and fishing lines, can cause minimal damage to the habitat and stress to the fish. Actual impacts often depend upon experience and training (Gasparini et al 2005:2887; Helfman 2007:378; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:401-3,412; Vincent 2006:192; Wabnitz et al 2003:12).
The collection of corals, live rock and other immobile organisms and materials require brute physical force and by necessity involve damage to the reef, but generally the damage is very small and localised (Bruckner 2002:2; Gasparini et al 2005:2887; Wabnitz et al 2003:12). At some collection sites, such as rocky and soft bottom habitats, the corals can be collected without damaging any reef (Wabnitz et al 2003:33). Usually whole small colonies of hard and soft corals are taken, although sometimes fragments are instead (Wabnitz et al 2003:12).
Live rock is limestone laid down over several millennia and encrusted with coralline algae and invertebrates (Bruckner 2002:2; Helfman 2007:379; Vincent 2006:191). It has been demonstrated that heavy harvesting of live rock can cause serious damage to reefs, increasing erosion, loss of habitat, deterioration of the substrate and in extreme cases causing a phase shift from coral to algal reefs (Bruckner 2002:2; Helfman 2007:379; Wabnitz et al 2003:33). A number of businesses are farming live rock by placing land-quarried limestone in areas of speedy marine flora and fauna growth, a less destructive method than wild collection (Bruckner 2002:5; Helfman 2007:379).
Other resources are farmed to ease pressure on natural ecosystems (Bruckner 2002:5; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:415-6; Wabnitz et al 2003:8). The captive breeding of ornamental species reduces the need for capture and increases the overall abundance of these species (Bruckner 2002:5; Helfman 2007:401; Wabnitz et al 2003:41,49,51). At present only very few fish and even fewer corals are so raised, despite many determined to be potentially well suited to captive breeding (Bruckner 2002:5; Helfman 2007:401; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:397; Vincent 2006:192; Wabnitz et al 2003:8,9,10,25,50-1). The Banggai cardinalfish (Pterapogon kauderni), a popular species abundant within only a small range and the overexploited seahorses (Hippocapus spp.) are fish that would benefit from captive rearing and developments to this end have been implemented (Gasparini et al 2005:2890; Helfman 2007:395-7,401; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:410; Wabnitz et al 2003:41,52-3). Presently commercial-scale mariculture remains an expensive and problematic venture in most cases (Helfman 2007:401; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:416). This is due in large part to the difficulties of raising successive generations (Bruckner 2002:5; Helfman 2007:401; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:416; Wabnitz et al 2003:51-2). Another possibility for fish is a variety of mariculture that involves the capture of larvae with light traps or specialised nets (Wabnitz et al 2003:52). The high death rate in the wild and success rate of captured larvae mean the ecological impact of this method would be minimal (Wabnitz et al 2003:54), while the unpredictability of larval dispersal, timing and species composition is a difficulty (Wabnitz et al 2003:54).
Many hard and soft corals are also suitable for aquaculture, and moreover corals so grown are demonstrably easier to transfer to aquarium conditions than wild harvested (Bruckner 2002:5; Helfman 2007:379; Wabnitz et al 2003:49-50). Despite this, very few of the corals traded are of “domesticated” origin (Bruckner 2002:5; Wabnitz et al 2003:50). The application of marine ornamental farming is hindered by the fact that most popular species are slow and difficult to grow, and the high start-up and operating costs and relatively low profit of fledgling operations (Bruckner 2002:5; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:416; Wabnitz et al 2003:50).
Of other invertebrates, a lack of information on life histories means that few steps have been made towards developing the cultivation of many, other than the relatively straightforward and well-understood giant clams (Tridacna spp.) and several species of decorative shrimp (Lysmata and Stenopus spp.) (Wabnitz et al 2003:53-4). Heightened interest and further research in mariculture technology promise greater application to trade and conservation in the future (Bruckner 2002:5; Helfman 2007:401; Wabnitz et al 2003:8,9,10,49,51-2). However, the wider, potentially detrimental effects of mariculture on reef and other habitats due to land developments for the facilities and discharge into the environment must be considered and monitored (Bruckner 2002:5,6; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:416,419).By developing these mariculture farms in the poorer nations, local collectors can continue their part in the trade with no loss of income and greater ecological sustainability. Unfortunately most already established are situated in wealthy countries such as the US (Helfman 2007:401-2; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:416; Wabnitz et al 2003:11,41).
Comprehensive understanding of the life-cycles and ecologies of marine ornamental species, their trade statistics and quantitative evidence of the impacts of different sections of the aquarium trade on the environment, not only on a global scale but also a nation-by-nation basis, are necessary for the sustainable application of quotas, other restrictions, trade and general management of coral reef organisms (Bruckner 2002:6; Gasparini et al 2005:2892; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:407,413-4,418; Wabnitz et al 2003:24,38,54-5,58). The recruitment and growth rates of different marine species and individual reefs, for example, can determine how readily a species or reef can recover from harvesting and other impacts (Bruckner 2002:2-3; Gasparini et al 2005:2890-1; Vincent 2006:191; Wabnitz et al 2003:38).
Much data on coral reef organisms, specifically hard corals, live rock and seahorses, has been collected by the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora (CITES) since 1985. CITES classifies species according to vulnerability and provides a management framework for the marine ornamental trade (Bruckner 2002:2,4). Since 2000, the United Nations Environment Programme World Conservation Monitoring Centre (UNEP-WCMC) in collaboration with the Marine Aquarium Council and various aquarium trade associations have been collecting quantitative trade data from wholesale exporters and importers of marine aquarium organisms (Helfman 2007:376; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:414; Wabnitz et al 2003:6,11,16-7). The resulting Global Marine Aquarium Database (GMAD) provides extensive information essential to the sustainable and environmentally friendly management of the live ornamental fish and invertebrate trade (Gasparini et al 2005:2884; Helfman 2007:376,403; Wabnitz et al 2003:6,11).
National legislation has been implemented in many places to restrict when, how many, which and with what methods animals can be collected (Sadovy & Vincent 2002:417; Wabnitz et al 2003:8,14). Export quotas, especially at a species-specific level, limit the numbers of individuals that can be collected and thus the pressure on stocks (Bruckner 2002:4-5; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:415; Wabnitz et al 2003:14,55). Some countries establish sites in which it is forbidden to collect anything at all. Marine reserves, which should ideally be very large and encompass a variety of habitats, can increase fish stocks and protect ecosystems from fishing-related damage (Bruckner 2002:4,6; Helfman 2007:400; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:415; Wabnitz et al 2003:14,48,56-7). In some cases, site exploitation is permissible only for a very specific group of people, generally one that has intrinsic cultural ties to the area or utility, with the expectation that they will possess a sense of ownership and therefore responsibility for the welfare of such places (Wabnitz et al 2003:57). Alternatively, carefully timed and placed temporary closures of fishing areas protect fish stocks at a critical point, usually reproductive events (Bruckner 2002:6; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:415; Wabnitz et al 2003:57).
Another commonly employed option, to varying degrees of effectiveness, is the use of permits to limit and monitor the number of people collecting (Bruckner 2002:4; Helfman 2007:399; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:415; Wabnitz et al 2003:48,54). Size limits can also be useful, with a minimum size to prevent wastage of stock through increased mortality of sensitive juveniles or to allow individuals to reproduce prior capture and maximum to maintain numbers of breeding adults or, in the case of corals, mature and habitat-building colonies (Sadovy & Vincent 2002:415; Wabnitz et al 2003:56).
Many nations have banned the use of destructive collection methods such as coral-whacking, and in particular the extremely harmful cyanide fishing, but with limited success (Bruckner 2002:3-4; Helfman 2007:378-9; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:415; Vincent 2006:192; Wabnitz et al 2003:12,14,34,55). More successful to this end have been intense education programs, public media campaigns and cyanide-detection facilities (Bruckner 2002:3-4; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:401; Wabnitz et al 2003:34). The best hope of truly suppressing the use of poisons in the collection of aquarium fish is an increase in the quality, strength and persistence of all these methods within the source nations, as well as pressure from consumers for more sustainable collection techniques (Bruckner 2002:4; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:401,417; Wabnitz et al 2003:34-5).
Certification of specimens collected with environmentally sustainable methods allows the consumer to selectively purchase those animals and so personally reduce the impact of the marine ornamental trade through market pressure (Helfman 2007:378,403; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:417; Wabnitz et al 2003:8,11,48). This certification has begun, with the development of the Marine Aquarium Council (MAC) certification process (Bruckner 2002:4; Helfman 2007:378,403; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:417; Wabnitz et al 2003:11,48-9). This body assesses specimens at every point between harvest and sale. Certification is based on: the habitat, stock, species management and ecological impacts and sustainability at the collection site (Ecosystem and Fishery Management (EFM) Core Standard); methods of collection, handling and transport of specimens at the source (Collection, Fishing and Holding (CFH) Core Standard); and transport, handling, segregation and documentation during the journey to retail (Gasparini et al 2005:2892; Helfman 2007:403; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:401; Wabnitz et al 2003:11,49). In addition, this certification process provides a system for monitoring the populations and any changes in the animals at collection sites (Wabnitz et al 2003:49).
Communication and cooperation with and consideration for the needs and livelihoods of the poorer people who make up the majority of the base of exotic ornamental trade is essential for the long-term effectiveness of conservation efforts (Bruckner 2002:5-6; Helfman 2007:403; Sadovy & Vincent 2002:416-7; Wabnitz et al 2003:8,54,57,58). In many cases of conservation success it is these collector communities who themselves take the responsibility for protecting and managing their reef workplaces (Sadovy & Vincent 2002:415; Wabnitz et al 2003:26,54,57). The people of the Fijian village of Malomalo, for example, raised concerns over the long-term impact of their live rock harvesting industry and worked with the WWF, MAC and their government to develop policies and processes for its management. Furthermore, they themselves allocated a no-take sanctuary zone within their traditional fishing grounds (Wabnitz et al 2003:26).
Legislation and mariculture are important for the management of the marine tropical live trade. Essential to both these methods and the overall success of sustainable ornamental harvesting, however, is constant and considerate communication with and education of the generally low-income collectors and high-end consumers, and the gathering of trade data and ecological and biological information of exploited organisms and habitats. Without the cooperation of the people involved and the information to determine best practice, any efforts towards sustainability are doomed, or at least heavily handicapped. With these means, however, the detrimental impacts of the marine ornamental trade can be minimised, and its positive capacities for education, aesthetic enjoyment and psychological benefits fully capitalized.



Bruckner, Andrew W., 2000, ‘New threat to coral reefs: trade in coral organisms’, Issues in Science and Technology

Gasparini, J.L., Floeter, S.R., Ferreira, C.E.L. & Sazima, I., 2005, ‘Marine ornamental trade in Brazil’, Biodiversity and Conservation, 14:2883-99, Springer

Helfman, Gene S., 2007, Fish Conservation: A Guide to Understanding and Restoring Global Aquatic Biodiversity and Fishery Resources, Island Press, Washington

Lucas, J.S., 1994, ‘The biology, exploitation, and mariculture of giant clams (Tridacnnidae)’, Reviews in Fisheries Science, vol 1, no. 3, pp 181-224

Sadovy, Yvonne J. & Vincent, Amanda C.J., 2002, ‘Ecological issues and the trades in live reef fishes’, Coral Reef Fishes, ed. Peter F. Sale, Elsevier Science, San Diego

Vincent, Amanda C.J., 2006, ‘Live food and non-food fisheries on coral reefs, and their potential management’, Coral Reef Conservation, ed. Isabelle M. Côté & John D. Reynolds, Cambridge University Press, Cambridge

Wabnitz, C., Taylor, M., Green, E. & Razak, T., 2003, From Ocean to Aquarium: The Global Trade in Marine Ornamental Species, UNEP-WCMC, Cambridge
Now that, my friends, is a freaking Wall of Text.

Yes...yes it is...

Your opener seems a tad clunky. The first thing I thought was you could blend together a couple sentences and that might help, but that would also create a single giga-sentence and that really peeves some professors.

[Mordokai]

Fine...

*clears throat*

So does this mean you're no longer qualified to Lay On Hands?

*ba-dum-tish*

Come closer and I'll show you :smalltongue:

[Mr. Mud]

Down with Author-Date/In-Text Referencing! Up the Footnotes!
It's such a pain for finding the word-count :smallyuk:

Heh... Recently, my Mom went back to college to get her Master's in Nursing, and she... well... isn't the best on the computer (can't-send-an-e-mail-bad), and somehow I, and not my brother, got suckered into to type her close to 5000 word thesis or what not. APA format is a ******-******* *** ** * *****. :smallbiggrin:

[Cristo Meyers]

Heh... Recently, my Mom went back to college to get her Master's in Nursing, and she... well... isn't the best on the computer (can't-send-an-e-mail-bad), and somehow I, and not my brother, got suckered into to type her close to 5000 word thesis or what not. APA format is a ******-******* *** ** * *****. :smallbiggrin:

Heh, English major. MLA/Chicago FTW!

...well...not really, it's kind of a pain in the backside too...

[Mr. Mud]

Cristo, its not even the citations that are bad (Word 2007 ftw!), its the adjusting of the freakin' margins every other page, the centering of everything, bolding italicizing, making the References page static text so I can double space it and what not... And her professor is very ana-- picky. Very Picky about things. :smallwink:

But hey, atleast its not in GB7714.

@ V: *glares violently*

[TwoBitWriter]

Professional Writing Major, FTW! :smallbiggrin:

Seriously, I didn't even have to switch to one-inch margins...

[Player_Zero]

Just woke up at 3PM... I really need to learn how to get out of bed at some point...

[Cristo Meyers]

No, no you don't. The Bed is all-forgiving, all-loving...


Professional Writing Major, FTW! :smallbiggrin:

Seriously, I didn't even have to switch to one-inch margins...

Yup :smallbiggrin:

I felt so sorry for those poor, misguided Journalism majors...

[Serpentine]

I'm with you on that, Zero :smallsigh:

BaArts/Science. I have to keep changing how I do it :smallsigh: Generally the formatting itself is pretty basic - leave a few centimetres on at least one side for comments, indent your paragraphs... That's about it. 'cept references :smallsigh:

[Mr. Mud]

1.) I sleep in a hammock
1.5.) Hammocks are badass.
2.) Serp, Word 2007, a stress ball, and someone to read aloud the Author/Title/Year/Pages into the auto-referencer isn't that bad. 2003 Word doesn't have the references tab in it though... does it :smallconfused:?

[Skippy]

1.5.) Hammocks are badass.


1.5.) Hammocks are badass.


1.5.) Hammocks are badass.


1.5.) Hammocks are badass.

>.>

<.<

*Flees*

[Cristo Meyers]

>.>

<.<

*Flees*

*pursues*

*catches*

*wraps in a hammock*

[Mr. Mud]

Skippy, TELL me you don't want this for the holidays :smallbiggrin:

TURRBOOO-HAMMOCKKKK (http://www.blavish.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/hammock_bathtub.jpg)

[ghost_warlock]

Was talking to a friend of mine recently (actually, I've already mentioned him to you. Cory, the Fat Gay Bastard). He's working as a nurse. According to him, he enjoys it partly because he "wants to help people" - you know, the usual - but also because he's really interested in the human body and injuries and death and stuff. He said he'd look at other students who were fainting or getting naucious (how the bajeebus do you spell that?) or going "ew" at all the films/pictures/disections and think "How exactly are you going to cope with working with this stuff every day? :smallconfused:"

Heh. Yes, I also love the human body. Especially the female body... :smallamused: (Sorry, I couldn't resist.)

My cousin used to be hemophobic. She's now about 6 months away from finishing her medical residency. :smallconfused: We're very proud of her, and not just because she's the type that studies hard and who's had straight-A's her whole life. :smallsigh:

(It's nauseous, btw. :smallsmile:)

[Cristo Meyers]

Hemophobic doesn't even begin to describe me. I get wierded out just watching shows like ER sometimes.

Oddly enough, if it's my blood I don't seem to care nearly as much...

[Player_Zero]

Hemophobic doesn't even begin to describe me. I get wierded out just watching shows like ER sometimes.

Oddly enough, if it's my blood I don't seem to care nearly as much...

...Blood!


http://www.freewebs.com/soaring_sphincter_travel_agency/red%20blood%20cells.bmp
...Cells.

Back onto fears eh? I'm quite scared of heights and I believe I'm forming a fear of going outside.

[TwoBitWriter]

I don't get squicked by anatomy or the injuries that can occur to the human body.

I don't seek that stuff out, but when it comes out it doesn't bother me.

Heck, whenever I'm bleeding I think its cool to watch.

[Cristo Meyers]

Wife has a fear of dogs, any dog: puppy, shepherd, mini schnauzer...don't matter.

Isn't like the number one fear among people public speaking? And Death is actually number two?

[Player_Zero]

Who fears death? :smallconfused:

Irrationality aside, what's the point?

[Mr. Mud]

Okay everyone, forget about Hammocks...

Anyone ever torn an ACL, and didn't know until you torn your meniscus the next year? (Varsity football in Texas at its greatest :smallwink:)

Death fears this lad (http://blog.kosmonaut.net/images/2008/February/Death.jpg)y.

[Cristo Meyers]

I just find it amusing that, if that holds true, then your average person would rather be in the casket at a funeral than delievering a eulogy.

[TwoBitWriter]

I never had a problem with public speaking.

Death only scares those who have regrets.

[Skippy]

Skippy, TELL me you don't want this for the holidays :smallbiggrin:

TURRBOOO-HAMMOCKKKK (http://www.blavish.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/hammock_bathtub.jpg)

WANT

Yeah, it looks awesome indeed...

[Player_Zero]

I never had a problem with public speaking.

Death only scares those who have regrets.

I hold myself as a counter example. I'm chock full o' regrets, but I don't really care about dying that much since I've got to do it eventually anyway.

[TwoBitWriter]

Well, the right attitude is that dying means you don't have to worry so damn much anymore. :smallsmile:

[Serpentine]

I'm absolutely terrified of dying, and of getting old. No, it has no point. In fact, I think there's an anti-point :smallsigh: Other fears... Dunno. I like snakes, I'm okay with spiders so long as big ones keep their distance (and I know where they are), I'm okay with heights, I especially like airtravel when it's turbulent, I'm fine with blood... The closest, I think, I get to claustrophobia is getting trapped in a too-small garment. I was once trying on a dress, and had it over my shoulders with my arms straight up when I got stuck. It got to the point where I had to call for help... and the woman had left the shop :smalleek: I damn near panicked. Think I may have busted a few stitches getting out...
What are some other common fears? I don't like stinging bugs, but I don't totally freak out if they get near me. I have yet to meet an animal that really scares me. Oh, public speaking. Eh, I get nervous, but as long as I'm well-prepared I'm fine.

I bought Goff a hammock for his birthday this year. It was hanging in the house, but he took it back. Now it's sitting uselessly in the studio :smallsigh: :smallfrown:

[mangosta71]

I wish I had a place to hang my hammock. :smallfrown:

[Player_Zero]

I'm absolutely terrified of dying, and of getting old. No, it has no point. In fact, I think there's an anti-point

Do you mean this in the way that death has no point or that your fearing death has no point? Because the first would be a philosophical debate in which we would need to define what makes something worth existing whereas the second would be because if you fear dying you're probably less likely to take risks which could lead to death.

[TwoBitWriter]

I don't have too many irrationial fears.

My buddy, GW? Scares the hell out of me. :smalltongue:

Knowing him, though, that will be a big compliment!

[Haruki-kun]

I never had a problem with public speaking.

Death only scares those who have regrets.

In the words of Sakata Gintoki: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gintoki_Sakata)


People are afraid of two things: Death and Emarassment. Those who try to overcome death are just idiots. But those that try to overcome embarassment are the type of person that I like.

[TwoBitWriter]

Haruki, I think I can call you brother now! :smallamused:

I practically live for public attention. My friends and I used to video tape us doing weird things in public.

One time, my friend was dressed in a suit, and I was following him with a stereo. Suddenly I turned on the Superman theme and he dashed into a phone booth, tore off his suit to reveal a Superman costume, then we both ran across campus. Another friend followed closely, filming the whole thing. :smallbiggrin:

[Cristo Meyers]

...I miss those days...

...I mean, I could do something like that now, but the folks in the office might not really appreciate the humour...

[Serpentine]

I once walked down the street in my pyjamas (grey, flannalette, black and white paw-prints), dressing gown (blue, pandas) and slippers (big black and white paws). My friend chickened out and just took my doona with normal clothes on underneath :smallannoyed:
Now that I think about it, that's the same friend I barked at people out the car window with that time... My poor mother must've practically died of embarassment.

I've had a break and I'm all full of chai. Time to get back to work :smallsigh: Lets see if I can hand it in before sun-up...

[Player_Zero]

I once walked down the street in my pyjamas (grey, flannalette, black and white paw-prints), dressing gown (blue, pandas) and slippers (big black and white paws). My friend chickened out and just took my doona with normal clothes on underneath.
I went to the cinema wearing a dressing gown once...

[Skippy]

The city where I live is full of people who will walk around the streets in their PJs and slippers. I've seen them a lot of times, in different places of the city. And of course, it's different people every time.

[Mordokai]

Hemophobic doesn't even begin to describe me. I get wierded out just watching shows like ER sometimes.

Oddly enough, if it's my blood I don't seem to care nearly as much...

Great, does that mean I may have to, at some future point, start to cut myself just to able to weird you out?

The things I do for the family...

[Cristo Meyers]

...

...

...I'm not touching that one with a 20ft pole...

[RabbitHoleLost]

...

...

...I'm not touching that one with a 20ft pole...

To, er, "quote" Trog from the JC meetup thread from back in the summer...
::starts selling 21ft poles::

[Serpentine]

>touches Cristo with a 20ft pole<

>on teh buttzorz<

<.<

>does work. No, really<

[Cristo Meyers]

You can poke me anytime, Serp :smallwink::smalltongue:

[TwoBitWriter]

I'm the kinda guy who doens't keep 20' poles in stock... I like getting my fingers dirty! :smalltongue:

[Serpentine]

Moved from You thread for appropriateness.
Iconoclasty was part, an extreme part, of the Reformation. Iconoclasts of this time destroyed almost all religious iconography, ranging from actual "icons", like these:
http://www.dargate.com/222_auction/222images/1056.jpg
through large-scale church art, along these lines:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3100/2727850825_8413611aec.jpg?v=0
http://www.sacred-destinations.com/france/images/chartres/cathedral/resized/xti_8276.jpg
(they painted over one and smashed and replaced the other)
and any crucifix with more than just a cross, like this:
http://instructional1.calstatela.edu/bevans/Art101/Art101B-7-EarlyMedieval/WebPage-ImageF.00063.jpeg

I believe the term "iconoclast" in history more or less specifically refers to the Protestants who believed that Catholic (and Eastern Orthodox) icons were sacriligious.


For anyone who missed it, I was explaining the historical context of "iconoclast".

Also, >pokes Cristo again<

[Mordokai]

...

...

...I'm not touching that one with a 20ft pole...

It's working! :smallbiggrin:

[ghost_warlock]

Iconoclasty was part, an extreme part, of the Reformation. Iconoclasts of this time destroyed almost all religious iconography, ranging from actual "icons", like these:

*snip*
through large-scale church art, along these lines:

*snip*
*snip*

(they painted over one and smashed and replaced the other)
and any crucifix with more than just a cross, like this:

*snip*

I believe the term "iconoclast" in history more or less specifically refers to the Protestants who believed that Catholic (and Eastern Orthodox) icons were sacriligious.

I assure you, I do not destroy artwork. I have a degree in art, as you know. :smallwink:

Artwork has been a fantastic portrait (heh) of the times throughout history. We can learn a lot about those who came before us by studying the images they produced. Everything I needed to ace my year-long 'development of civilization' history class I learned in the art history class I had the year before. :smallbiggrin:

Edit: Although, I do find it entertaining that I say I don't destroy artwork in a post where I've snipped out the pictures in your quoted text. :smalltongue:

[Dragonrider]

Gah! I'm gone for a little and zere is a new thread!

:smallsigh:

I need to stop by more often.

[TwoBitWriter]

Gah! I'm gone for a little and zere is a new thread!

:smallsigh:

I need to stop by more often.

Yes you do! :smallbiggrin:

If nothing else to pretty up these forums a bit. Cristo and Mordy are effeminately pretty and all, but they are still dudes...

[Cristo Meyers]

HEY! :smalltongue:

[Mordokai]

Yes you do! :smallbiggrin:

If nothing else to pretty up these forums a bit. Cristo and Mordy are effeminately pretty and all, but they are still dudes...

Grumblemumblerumble...

I'm gonna get you for that.

[TwoBitWriter]

Paladin's don't do revenge... and I hardly see the need for justice to be served here.

The first amendment protects me from libel suits if I speak the truth! :smalltongue:

[RabbitHoleLost]

Cristo and Mordy are effeminately pretty and all

Hear Hear!
>>
<<
::runs away again::

[Cristo Meyers]

Here here!
>>
<<
::runs away again::

Don't you start...

...when did I get drafted into the ranks of the bishounen?

[late for dinner]

I have a new guy in my gaming group that said that He wants to play a superhero game. He wants to be a Polish guy that can grow like giant man. (there is my 2 sentences to follow the rules...but I have more) He would call himself "30 foot Pole." We all laughed. I dont know if it was original or not but it was sure funny and none of us had heard it before.

(this is my first random banter post...I like it)

[TwoBitWriter]

It was indeed quite random... I suppose a bravo is in order? :smallbiggrin:


And Cristo, you know you love it. You just wish you had those pale, perfect facial features.

I know Mordy wishes he looked like Edward Cullen... (I swear the only reason I know who that is because of my wife...)

[Dragonrider]

*runs in*

*decorates*

*runs out*

:smalltongue: Pretty enough for you? :smallbiggrin:

I'm trying to write in my journal,and here you guys are making me laugh too hard to wield a pen. Stop that! Bad! :smallamused:

[RabbitHoleLost]

I know Mordy wishes he looked like Edward Cullen... (I swear the only reason I know who that is because of my wife...)
You.
Take the RHL loves me sticker out of your sig.
Right now.

:smalltongue:

[ghost_warlock]

*runs in*

*decorates*

*runs out*

:smalltongue: Pretty enough for you? :smallbiggrin:

I'm trying to write in my journal,and here you guys are making me laugh too hard to wield a pen. Stop that! Bad! :smallamused:

Decorations? :smallconfused:

What kind of decorations?

Are they eatable?

*lick*

*nom*

[Cristo Meyers]

You.
Take the RHL loves me sticker out of your sig.
Right now.

:smalltongue:

And run...very, very fast...

[Mordokai]

I know Mordy wishes he looked like Edward Cullen... (I swear the only reason I know who that is because of my wife...)

*googles*

Whaaaaaa'?!? :smalleek:

Dude!

[late for dinner]

I might be missing something.
Who is RHL?
Why does he love you?

[TwoBitWriter]

I might be missing something.
Who is RHL?
Why does he love you?

RHL is a figment of our collective imaginations.

And she loves only those she enslaves... Those that willingly submit themselves to her fangirlish fantasies.

[Thufir]

I might be missing something.
Who is RHL?
Why does he love you?

RabbitHoleLost.
As to the reason she loves him, I dunno, but I'm guessing it had to do with the shipping thread.

Now, let's see how many people have ninja'd me... Only one! Victory is almost mine!

[ghost_warlock]

RHL is a figment of our collective imaginations.

And she loves only those she enslaves... Those that willingly submit themselves to her fangirlish fantasies.

I maintain that I am loved, instead, because I am highly perceptive, generally wonderful, and wickedly twisted. Also, I drink blueberry-pomegranate juice.

[TwoBitWriter]

I maintain that I am loved, instead, because I am highly perceptive, generally wonderful, and wickedly twisted. Also, I drink blueberry-pomegranate juice.

So I prefer to take the easy way, instead of finding commonality. :smallbiggrin:

[late for dinner]

You got that right...I am covered head to toe in awesomesauce. Reminds me of the time that I did that one awesome thing and the Huntz Awesomesauce poured all over my head annointing me in awesomesauce-ness? It was sweet...and tomatoie

[RabbitHoleLost]

I maintain that I am loved, instead, because I am highly perceptive, generally wonderful, and wickedly twisted. Also, I drink blueberry-pomegranate juice.

And, you know, that last one?
About the blueberry-pomegranate juice?
Most emphasis on that :smalltongue:

[ghost_warlock]

And, you know, that last one?
About the blueberry-pomegranate juice?
Most emphasis on that :smalltongue:

I just bought more this morning.

*winks*

@V: Do you also sparkle in sunlight?

[Cristo Meyers]

You got that right...I am covered head to toe in awesomesauce. Reminds me of the time that I did that one awesome thing and the Huntz Awesomesauce poured all over my head annointing me in awesomesauce-ness? It was sweet...and tomatoie

You are very strange...I like you.


*googles*

Whaaaaaa'?!?

Dude!

Tell me about it.

we both know I'm the cute one in this pair...

[Thufir]

I just bought more this morning.

*winks*

Where do you obtain this probably heavenly drink? Is it available in England?

[ghost_warlock]

Where do you obtain this probably heavenly drink? Is it available in England?

Dunno. I got mine at the local evil depository: Wal*Mart.

[TwoBitWriter]

You are very strange...I like you.

I agree... I like him! :smallbiggrin:




Tell me about it.

we both know I'm the cute one in this pair...

Ahh Cristo, I think thats for RHL to decide.

[RabbitHoleLost]

Dunno. I got mine at the local evil depository: Wal*Mart.

Aggghh! The Evil Empire in Blue!
I don't think I can love you anymore*, Ghost, due to the fact I'm employed by Target :smallfrown:


* Impossibility.


Ahh Cristo, I think thats for RHL to decide.
Cristo is boyishly cute.
Mordy is the pretty Paladin ::shrugs::
Both are attractive, they just appeal to two different types of fangirls.

[Dragonrider]

The Wal Marts?

You know, I read a book the other day that called it throughout "Wall Mart". Either they couldn't get permission from the company to use their name or they were ignorant of our oh so pure American culture. :smalltongue:

[TwoBitWriter]

Yeah, Mordokai, Cristo, stop complaining!

At least you have fangirls...

*Is fangirl-less...* :smallfrown:

[late for dinner]

I maintain that I am loved, instead, because I am highly perceptive, generally wonderful, and wickedly twisted. Also, I drink blueberry-pomegranate juice.

I have never heard of the pomegranate fruit. Where does it grow? Is it a pulpy fruit or a smooth apple like texture? Who thought of the name? Sounds interesting and delicious.

[Mr. Mud]

Hey wait, I wanna Fangirl! TwoBit, did we miss a sign up list or something..? :smallfrown:

[ghost_warlock]

Aggghh! The Evil Empire in Blue!
I don't think I can love you anymore*, Ghost, due to the fact I'm employed by Target :smallfrown:


* Impossibility.

I don't have much choice in where I shop, unfortunately, as I receive a 10% discount on practically all purchases at Wal*Mart and I'm there almost every day as a result of my SO* working there.

* Significant Other; not Sex Offender.


I have never heard of the pomegranate fruit. Where does it grow? Is it a pulpy fruit or a smooth apple like texture? Who thought of the name? Sounds interesting and delicious.


The pomegranate (Punica granatum) is a fruit-bearing deciduous shrub or small tree growing to between five and eight metres tall. The pomegranate is native to the region from Iran to the Himalayas in northern India and has been cultivated and naturalized over the whole Mediterranean region and the Caucasus since ancient times. It is widely cultivated throughout Algeria, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Iran, India, Pakistan,Syria, Turkey, the drier parts of southeast Asia, Peninsular Malaysia, the East Indies, and tropical Africa[1]. Introduced into Latin America and California by Spanish settlers in 1769, pomegranate is now cultivated in parts of California and Arizona for juice production.[2]

In the Northern Hemisphere, the fruit is typically in season from September to January.[3] In the Southern Hemisphere, it is in season from March to May.
Pics because it happened:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/29/Pomegranate03_edit.jpg/800px-Pomegranate03_edit.jpg

[Cristo Meyers]

This is definitely a good distinction to make. :smalltongue:

Wal-mart...blech...blechblechblech...

Target. Always.

see what I did there?



Cristo is boyishly cute.
Mordy is the pretty Paladin ::shrugs::
Both are attractive, they just appeal to two different types of fangirls.

...you're two different types of fangirl now?

'Cause far as I'm aware, there's only two fangirls of ours out there...

[RabbitHoleLost]

I don't have much choice in where I shop, unfortunately, as I receive a 10% discount on practically all purchases at Wal*Mart and I'm there almost every day as a result of my SO* working there.

* Significant Other; not Sex Offender.

:: shakes fist at::
Arrrrghh!

'Kay. I've done my loyalty bit now.


...you're two different types of fangirl now?

'Cause far as I'm aware, there's only two fangirls of ours out there...
>>
We don't have to answer your mocking questions!

[TwoBitWriter]

My wife and I do our monthly grocery trips to Target, I find the food quality to be higher.

@GW: Mmm.... pomegranate... :smallamused:

[mangosta71]

I have never heard of the pomegranate fruit. Where does it grow? Is it a pulpy fruit or a smooth apple like texture? Who thought of the name? Sounds interesting and delicious.

A pomegranate is different from every other fruit I'm familiar with. You actually hack it open and eat the seeds. The tasty, tasty seeds. Think of it as eating babies. Before they get all tough and stringy.

[Mr. Mud]

We recently got a new Target in my part o' Town... No more Safeway! But this target is a 2 level giga-target with 2 Starbucks built-in! (No, really, there is the large sitting space on the top floor, and the small-kiosk-thing in the corner...) :smallbiggrin:

[Cristo Meyers]

A pomegranate is different from every other fruit I'm familiar with. You actually hack it open and eat the seeds. The tasty, tasty seeds. Think of it as eating babies. Before they get all tough and stringy.

And without the constant crying and squirming. Oh so good...been way too long since I've had a pomegranate.


>>
We don't have to answer your mocking questions!

Heh, if I keep going, do you think we'll end up with two RHL's when her personality finally splits? :smallamused:

I love how at 25 I can still be described as "boyish"...:smalltongue:

[ghost_warlock]

A pomegranate is different from every other fruit I'm familiar with. You actually hack it open and eat the seeds. The tasty, tasty seeds. Think of it as eating babies. Before they get all tough and stringy.

I'm ghost_warlock, and I approve this message.

*ducks*

Edit: :smallsigh: Baby week is going to be so, so very difficult for me. :smallfrown:

[Mordokai]

Tell me about it.

we both know I'm the cute one in this pair...

Was there ever a doubt about that?

[Dragonrider]

I've spent some time in the middle-east and we bought some pomegranite juice (fresh - we watched the guy make it) at an exorbitant price. I don't really remember what it tasted like but I remember liking it. :smalltongue:

[Jibar]

It is now, listening to Ash that I come to realise something important. Something so interesting and mysterious that Shakespeare made it one of, if not the vital theme behind his masterpiece Hamlet. It has changed my entire perception of music if not life itself.

Ears are weird.

Also, it turns out I'm in love. (http://nin-kitty.deviantart.com/art/Steampunk-80613268)

(Found this really sweet pair of goggles in the city at the weekend. All I'd need was some spray paint and possibly some different lenses and I could mod them good. Of course, at £25, that's more expensive that these otherwise super sweet (http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?listing_id=17724820) ones.)

[TwoBitWriter]

Jibar, did you finally find your goggles?!

Yay!

Now you gotta get that steam-powered mech arm!

Edit: And Twobi approves of your non-goggle link! :smallbiggrin:

[RabbitHoleLost]

Edit: And Twobi approves of your non-goggle link! :smallbiggrin:

Rabbit also approves >>
Those chaps...

[ghost_warlock]

Rabbit also approves >>
Those chaps...

Chaps? What chaps?

I just see the hair and my eyes can't look anywhere else.

[Jack Squat]

Chaps? What chaps?

I just see the hair and my eyes can't look anywhere else.

...I noticed the sweet job on the NERF gun.

This means there's no hope for me, right?

[Cristo Meyers]

...I noticed the sweet job on the NERF gun.

This means there's no hope for me, right?

*pats back*

It's okay, it happens to all of us.

[TwoBitWriter]

It gets worse when you get married. Because then you have to lie and say "I was only admiring the equipment!" :smallamused:

[ghost_warlock]

It gets worse when you get married. Because then you have to lie and say "I was only admiring the equipment!" :smallamused:

I fail to see how that would be helpful. I would like to 'admire her equipment.' :smallamused:

[Cristo Meyers]

I fail to see how that would be helpful. I would like to 'admire her equipment.' :smallamused:

I imagine we all would, it's just that saying the wrong thing in this situation can lead to sleeping on the couch...if not outright pain.

That's how Wesley found out about "to the pain" you know, he saw what happened when this sort of situation was mishandled...

[TwoBitWriter]

You guys make me realize that the phrase, "admiring the equipment," would be just as bad... :smallsigh:


Can't a fella get a break anymore?

[Supagoof]

I always told my wife if she's angry then she sleeps on the couch. Keeps both of us from going to be angry that way. :smallwink:

[Cristo Meyers]

You guys make me realize that the phrase, "admiring the equipment," would be just as bad... :smallsigh:


Can't a fella get a break anymore?

Nope, welcome to marriage: anything you say can and will be used against you.

You have the right to an attorney: but you will still lose half your stuff should you need one.

You have the right to always be wrong, even when you're not.

[ghost_warlock]

You guys make me realize that the phrase, "admiring the equipment," would be just as bad... :smallsigh:


Can't a fella get a break anymore?

No. Unless you refer to the breaking of your legs.

Also, I now find myself wondering what kind of ice cream that girl likes. What color are her eyes? Could she kill a man, knowing that doing so would take away everything he is, everything he will ever do?

Cuz, that would be HAWT.

[TwoBitWriter]

Nope, welcome to marriage: anything you say can and will be used against you.



Ugh, people need to stop reminding me! :smallsigh: :smalltongue:

I know that i'm definitely past the honeymoon phase, but I'm also getting out of the "OMG I'm married!" phase...

I hope to be settled down before the weekend is out.

[late for dinner]

A pomegranate is different from every other fruit I'm familiar with. You actually hack it open and eat the seeds. The tasty, tasty seeds. Think of it as eating babies. Before they get all tough and stringy.

I do enjoy the taste of babies...especially if they taste like fruit.

[Supagoof]

Here's some helpful tips for marriage that I've received from a friend.

1. Fine: This is the word women use to end an argument when they are right and you need to shut up.
2. Five Minutes: If she is getting dressed, this means a half an hour. (Five minutes is only five minutes if you have just been given five more minutes to watch the game before helping around the house.)
3. Nothing: This is the calm before the storm. This means something, and you should be on your toes. Arguments that begin with nothing usually end in fine.
4. Go Ahead: This is a dare, not permission. Don't do it!
5. Loud Sigh: This is actually a word, but is a non-verbal statement often misunderstood by men. A loud sigh means she thinks you are an idiot and wonders why she is wasting her time standing here and arguing with you about nothing. (Refer back to # 3 for the meaning of nothing.)
6. That's Okay: This is one of the most dangerous statements a women can make to a man. That's okay means she wants to think long and hard before deciding how and when you will pay for your mistake.
7. Thanks: A woman is thanking you, do not question or faint. Just say, “you're welcome.” (I want to add in a clause here: This is true, unless she says 'Thanks a lot' - that is PURE sarcasm and she is not thanking you at all. DO NOT say, “you're welcome.” That will bring on a 'whatever.')
8. Whatever: Is a women's way of saying F**K YOU!
9. Don't worry about it, I got it: Another dangerous statement, meaning this is something that a woman has told a man to do several times, but is now doing it herself. This will later result in a man asking 'What's wrong?' For the woman's response . . refer to # 3.

[Jibar]

Jibar, did you finally find your goggles?!


Not quite a yay actually.

While I found them, I didn't buy them.
While much more immediate, they would end up costing more than it would to order the sweet set.
But then I can't order the sweet set because my parents don't trust me with my own money and as such I cannot access my bank account and would have to have them order it for me. Which they are unwilling to do.
However, what with my recent birthday I could now switch my account which would let me order them...

I smell an idea.

Speaking of non goggles links... (http://spazedout.deviantart.com/art/The-Nautilus-Steampunk-Guitar-56954706)



Ugh. My internet has been messing up for the past month. For some reason stuff keeps getting lost between my computer and the router and nobody knows why.
I typed this post like half an hour ago. And I've only been able to post it now.

[Cristo Meyers]

Ugh, people need to stop reminding me! :smallsigh: :smalltongue:

I know that i'm definitely past the honeymoon phase, but I'm also getting out of the "OMG I'm married!" phase...

I hope to be settled down before the weekend is out.

I had the OMG I'm married! thing hit all at once.

Literally, I was at work a couple weeks before the wedding, turned to the guy next to me and actually said "Wow, I'm getting married..."

I don't think he stopped laughing for the rest of the day...

[TwoBitWriter]

Thank you, Supagoof. That is inherently funny, because my wife has used ALL of those phrases at some point, and they were meant exactly as you defined it! :smallbiggrin:

[Cristo Meyers]

I can't stand it when someone does something like that. Say what you freakin' mean or stop complaining when it doesn't get done the way you want it...

[Thanatos 51-50]

9. Don't worry about it, I got it: Another dangerous statement, meaning this is something that a woman has told a man to do several times, but is now doing it herself. This will later result in a man asking 'What's wrong?' For the woman's response . . refer to # 3.

While most of the other points are valid - this one most definatly is not (note, that I'm not married).
While it is a dangerous statement, I've been on the recieving end of these after one request.

"<Thanatos>, could you fetch the frying pan, please?"
"The Cast Iron one or one I cn hurl across the room?"
"Don't worry about it, I got it."

You see? This was illogical and unprovoked. Similar things happen to me all the time. Its bewildering.

Shockingly enough, if I grab, say, the cast iron one (and its the wrong pan), I get scolded for not following directions.

This was an example from my childhood, but it was the first one to come to mind and can be substituted for any number of siuations which I'm too lazy to conjure examples for.

[late for dinner]

Yeah, I am not married, but I took note and now I know what to say and what to fear....heh....women...they are still covered in awesomesauce though...by the way, that is my new favorite word-awesomesauce-

[Supagoof]

Thank you, Supagoof. That is inherently funny, because my wife has used ALL of those phrases at some point, and they were meant exactly as you defined it! :smallbiggrin:
Just pay it forward and share it with other guys you know. :smallwink:

For some reason, everytime someone brings up divorce, my mind shoots to Eddie Murphy in his standup production of Delirious.

HALF!

Y'know, back when he was really funny and not toned down for the kids.

[Recaiden]

Well, there are goggles, but that's not the main thing (http://steampunkworkshop.com/images/pc010420.jpg)

And now I'm interested in steampunk again. I don't have time for this. Curse you Catmuffin!:smalltongue:

I'm not married, but many women stil use those phrases as you defined them.

[ghost_warlock]

Yeah, I am not married, but I took note and now I know what to say and what to fear....heh....women...they are still covered in awesomesauce though...by the way, that is my new favorite word-awesomesauce-

I would like to note that awesomesauce, by its very definition, is delicious.

@V: For my second sentence, I would note that, yes, awesomesauce tastes like awesome. Which may contain a hint of pomegranate. :smallwink:

[late for dinner]

I hope it tastes like pomegranite.
This is my second sentence so I dont break the rules.

[Serpentine]

Here's some helpful tips for marriage that I've received from a friend.

1. Fine: This is the word women use to end an argument when they are right and you need to shut up.
2. Five Minutes: If she is getting dressed, this means a half an hour. (Five minutes is only five minutes if you have just been given five more minutes to watch the game before helping around the house.)
3. Nothing: This is the calm before the storm. This means something, and you should be on your toes. Arguments that begin with nothing usually end in fine.
4. Go Ahead: This is a dare, not permission. Don't do it!
5. Loud Sigh: This is actually a word, but is a non-verbal statement often misunderstood by men. A loud sigh means she thinks you are an idiot and wonders why she is wasting her time standing here and arguing with you about nothing. (Refer back to # 3 for the meaning of nothing.)
6. That's Okay: This is one of the most dangerous statements a women can make to a man. That's okay means she wants to think long and hard before deciding how and when you will pay for your mistake.
7. Thanks: A woman is thanking you, do not question or faint. Just say, “you're welcome.” (I want to add in a clause here: This is true, unless she says 'Thanks a lot' - that is PURE sarcasm and she is not thanking you at all. DO NOT say, “you're welcome.” That will bring on a 'whatever.')
8. Whatever: Is a women's way of saying F**K YOU!
9. Don't worry about it, I got it: Another dangerous statement, meaning this is something that a woman has told a man to do several times, but is now doing it herself. This will later result in a man asking 'What's wrong?' For the woman's response . . refer to # 3.
I've been thinking about some of these lately, and I think there's an alternative explanation (which may or may not be always correct, but I think they are at least in my case) for many of them. For example:
1, 3, 4, 6: While she disagrees/doesn't want it to happen/doesn't like something, she feels she has no good reason for it. She is not okay, but feels like she should be. Thus, she concedes, and bottles it up, and starts to resent it.
Example: Man: "I'm going out with the guys tonight."
Woman: "Go ahead." (with the implied negativity of above)
What's happening: The woman was hoping to spend time with the man, and/or is disappointed at being left at home all alone.
What will happen: The woman will, conciously or otherwise, begin to resent the man and so be less-than-positive towards him and likely less forgiving of late and/or drunken returns. The woman will detect this and accuse her of passive-aggression and/or unfair chastisement.
Solution (for the man): Before leaving, assure the woman that you will do something together, say, the next night (and actually do so). Maybe suggest that she go out as well or invite people over, or even (shock!) invite her along.

Oh, and in defence of the woman's "five more minutes", how about the men's "soon"? How many times has my father's response of "soon" to the question "how long 'til dinner?" actually meant "about an hour"? :smallannoyed:

Also: It's starting to get light outside :smalleek: :smallsigh:

[Thanatos 51-50]

Also: It's starting to get light outside :smalleek: :smallsigh:

Mien Gott! It is! Run for cover!

[Supagoof]

True Serp. Most should not only see these words as words to watch out for, but also for taking action to make sure they don't arise again. Your alternative explanation doesn't disprove the wording. It does help bring up possibilities for happier scenarios.

However, that's a topic probably better left for the relationship thread. :smallwink:

[Cristo Meyers]

Ah....left over Kung Pao chicken...

...my day just improved tenfold.

[Serpentine]

I hope to write up an uber-relationships post to replace my three sig-links, and intend to include that stuff in it.

I've finished editing it, and right down to 2745 words not including references! Stand by for announcement of degree completion...

[Dirk Kris]

*Dirk bursts in a la Rock Band commercial (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BddCq1zFI4)*
Heeeeeeeeeeeere's Dirky!

...what? Like your day didn't just get EVEN better, Cristo? :smallamused:

[TwoBitWriter]

I don't know about Cristo, but it made MY day ten times better! :smallbiggrin:

Thanks, Dirk! *Hugs*

[Serpentine]

With the underwear and everything? :smallconfused:
...
Hawt :smallamused:

[Cristo Meyers]

*looks at bowl*

*looks at Dirk*

*looks at bowl*

*looks at Dirk*

...

*continues eating*

:smalltongue:

[RabbitHoleLost]

Forget Cristo, Dirky baby.
Made my day spectacular :smallwink:
Heidi Klum= my own personal heart throb.

[CurlyKitGirl]

I hate dance students.
I walk into the bathroom and it stinks of the most punguent, overpowering sprays and perfumes. Because of them. Do they like to make people choke to death on their foul poisons?
The dance students also, well, how shall I put it? Two of them like to flash their tits out at the traffic when they're on the bus.
They also like to bray their harsh booze - cracked cackles throughout the day and talk at the highest volume possible while discussing every ingle aspect of their sex lives that it fair makes everyone blush. And having two of them discuss their lesbian relationship in such glowingly explicit terms that every single person on the bottom of the bus, including the bus driver and about one - third of the people on the top deck immediately burst out in far louder conversation, music and anything at all to avoid their foul mouths and utter lack of modesty.

I hate dance students.

[Quincunx]

Happy early Thanksgiving.
I am thankful for housemates who appreciate turkey. They get free dinner, I get no guilt at buying a huge chunk of meat just for myself, and my husband doesn't get subjected to turkey dinner.
I am thankful for the humorous no-man's-land between the EQ players, the WoW player, and the what's-the-point-in-MMOs guy in the house.
I am thankful that there is someone here tall enough to change the light bulbs and short enough to clean the oven.
Jag är tacksam på deras tålamod när vänta på min tveksam tal.
I am thankful that we all have a similar standard of cleanliness in the living quarters: "meh".
We're a reasonably happy expatriate household, even when certain parties are snogging loud enough to be heard one floor up and one floor down, even when someone opens his door and the accumulated flood of empty soda bottles bursts its dam, even when someone disappears for a week and a half and only leaves a forwarding number with one other person.
Let us eat turkey. . .and pasta carbonara.

[Cristo Meyers]

I hate dance students.
I walk into the bathroom and it stinks of the most punguent, overpowering sprays and perfumes. Because of them. Do they like to make people choke to death on their foul poisons?
The dance students also, well, how shall I put it? Two of them like to flash their tits out at the traffic when they're on the bus.
They also like to bray their harsh booze - cracked cackles throughout the day and talk at the highest volume possible while discussing every ingle aspect of their sex lives that it fair makes everyone blush. And having two of them discuss their lesbian relationship in such glowingly explicit terms that every single person on the bottom of the bus, including the bus driver and about one - third of the people on the top deck immediately burst out in far louder conversation, music and anything at all to avoid their foul mouths and utter lack of modesty.

I hate dance students.

I wish I could say it gets better...

My advice: invest in a good mp3 player and a lot of loud music.

Queen should suffice. :smallbiggrin:

I remember hearing a story from someone about how they were hearing someone on a cell phone talking in far too much volume about her boyfriend's, um, shortcomings.

[Dirk Kris]

*looks at bowl*

*looks at Dirk*

*looks at bowl*

*looks at Dirk*

...

*continues eating*

:smalltongue:
*growls*
Fine.

[TwoBitWriter]

*looks at Dirk, points up a few posts (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5365668&postcount=207), pouts* :smallfrown:

[CurlyKitGirl]

I wish I could say it gets better...

My advice: invest in a good mp3 player and a lot of loud music.

Queen should suffice. :smallbiggrin:

I remember hearing a story from someone about how they were hearing someone on a cell phone talking in far too much volume about her boyfriend's, um, shortcomings.

Hello, welcome to Curlys' Bank Balance. Please deposit 5p to hear an electronic account of your balance.
5p?! That's way too expensive. I'm hanging up.
*checks out the paper slip thingy*
Cash: zilch

And I love Queen oh so much. They are my Holy of Holies and I can sing along with virtually any song of theirs word perfect and if not, I can at least sing along with the chorus and pick up the tune while hearing it for the first time.
I don't like track 8/9 on Greatest Hits I though. It makes me lose. But it's gret making other people listen to it. :smallamused:
Alas, all my music is at home on CDs or YouTube or in my head. Head stereos don't seem to go loud enough to drown out such loud embarrasment though.
You do not want to hear even the mildest paraphrasing of it as it would get me banned within one minute of posting.

[Supagoof]

I wish I could say it gets better...

My advice: invest in a good mp3 player and a lot of loud music.

Queen should suffice. :smallbiggrin:

I remember hearing a story from someone about how they were hearing someone on a cell phone talking in far too much volume about her boyfriend's, um, shortcomings.
Heh, just turn to them and ask them if they like Shakespeare. Then immediately begin quoting him.

A friend of mine taught me that trick. They'll then get up and move away from the "crazy" person, thus making your peace and quiet return all that much sooner.

It immediately just makes them change topic, which is what you wanted in the first place right?

[Serpentine]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/liverpool/content/images/2007/10/08/southport_musical_fireworks_1_470x356.jpg
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff299/Miss_Elainious/champagne.jpg
http://www.state.gov/cms_images/030408_happy.jpg
http://hotbiscuits.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/graduation07.jpg
http://www.nma.gov.au/libraries/images/exhibitions/royal_romance/queens_progress/children_cheering_1954/files/3442/A1773_RV660%20-%20Children%20Cheering%201954.jpg
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k211/_Lluna_/192-54586-balloon-release---stuur-b.jpg*

I'VE FINISHED MY DEGREE! :BIGGRIN:
...assuming I don't fail this unit <.<
Now for Honours and PhD :smallamused:

The sun's up... But I'm not really all that tired :smallconfused: Maybe I should take this opportunity to get my sleeping patterns in order and stay up all day...

*Balloon releases are actually very bad for the environment. Don't do it.

[Thanatos 51-50]

<SNIPPED IMAGES!>
I'VE FINISHED MY DEGREE! :BIGGRIN:
...assuming I don't fail this unit <.<
Now for Honours and PhD :smallamused:

The sun's up... But I'm not really all that tired :smallconfused: Maybe I should take this opportunity to get my sleeping patterns in order and stay up all day...

Congratulations! Have some cake!

[RightHandless]

Congratulations Serpentine! Believe it!

[TwoBitWriter]

Hooray Serp!

I will never forget the day I walked out of the last test of my last class.

It is an amazing feeling! I hope you savor this moment for the time to come! :smallbiggrin:

[late for dinner]

congrats on your college degree. you should eat a pomegranite. they are a middle eastern fruit that grows on a shrub like bush. you have to break it open and eat the delicious seeds. It tastes like babies before they get all tough and stringy...from what I heard.

[Serpentine]

I know pomegranates. Friend of mine had a couple of trees of them. I stayed at her place for a week, and we sat there playing her Nintendo64 and eating pomegranates. Good times, good times.
Yeah, I think I'm gonna just stay up, even if I am already feeling a bit heavy... It's 6.30am already, anyway.

[mangosta71]

Just pay it forward and share it with other guys you know. :smallwink:

For some reason, everytime someone brings up divorce, my mind shoots to Eddie Murphy in his standup production of Delirious.

HALF!

Y'know, back when he was really funny and not toned down for the kids.

I always think about the Chris Rock routine, in which he speaks on the topic of each partner getting what they're accustomed to.

And what's this two-sentence rule that people keep jabbering about?

[Cristo Meyers]

It's in the first post somewhere. Each post is supposed to be at least two sentences long. The idea being that this would reduce spam in the thread.

[TwoBitWriter]

The only use for SPAM is to be pan-fried and put between two slices of bread with gobs of mustard! :smallbiggrin:

Does anyone else have their ideal method of SPAM preparation?

[Thanatos 51-50]

The only use for SPAM is to be pan-fried and put between two slices of bread with gobs of mustard! :smallbiggrin:

Does anyone else have their ideal method of SPAM preparation?

My ideal method of SPAM preparation is to send it into canned food drvies.
If you're hungry enough, you'll eat it.

I hate SPAM. It tastes awful. How they managed to cram tweleve pounds of salt into a six-ounce tin is beyond me.

[unstattedCommoner]

I have finally located the PhD comic (http://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive.php?comicid=427) I wished to link to in response to one of PlayerZero's posts.

Now, of course, I cannot locate the post I wished to respond to. So I'll just link to it (http://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive.php?comicid=427) out of context.

[CurlyKitGirl]

I am on cloud nine. I can take cherry or apple crumble (or both!) to college tomorrow and eat it in class.
Maybe I should take both. What say the people of the Playground?

[Serpentine]

A few of my lecturers would supply TimTams, coffee, tea, etc. to the tutorials. And on lecturer brought a whole picnic lunch for the first and last days of a residential school...
I like my university :smallcool:
...mostly :smallsigh:

[Thufir]

The only use for SPAM is to be pan-fried and put between two slices of bread with gobs of mustard! :smallbiggrin:

Does anyone else have their ideal method of SPAM preparation?

Myself, I'm partial to a well-prepared Lobster thermidor aux crevettes with a mornay sauce, garnished with truffel pates, brandy, a fried egg on top and SPAM!
:smalltongue:


@^^: Never had cherry crumble, so I don't know. But I think I'd go with both.

[Serpentine]

WONDERFUL SPAM! Wonderful spam...
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s126/scouse99/1907Vikings.jpg

[Jibar]

Hooray for Serp!

Now hurry up and get a job so we can move in together and live the life of luxury.

[Serpentine]

I've got a job... Two jobs, even. They just add up to 7 hours over 2 days, that's all...

[Thufir]

Hooray for Serp!

Now hurry up and get a job so we can move in together and live the life of luxury.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k63/Razor-Sharp_H7/Avatar/MusicalCatmuffin.gif

[CurlyKitGirl]

Myself, I'm partial to a well-prepared Lobster thermidor aux crevettes with a mornay sauce, garnished with truffel pates, brandy, a fried egg on top and SPAM!
:smalltongue:

How did I know it would be a Britlander that quoted the SPAM sketch?


@^^: Never had cherry crumble, so I don't know. But I think I'd go with both.

It's delicious. For some reason the two crumbles we have, when put in the fridge kind of turned into crumble bars.
Yes. Apple crumble bars and cherry crumble bars.
And I'm having some tomorrow. I'm so happy; it's the small simple things that make my day isn't it? :smallbiggrin:

[Cristo Meyers]

Always seems to be the little things that do the most.

Small favours, yeah?

[Thufir]

How did I know it would be a Britlander that quoted the SPAM sketch?

Well, my brother used to have the spam-filled menu written on a piece of paper stuck to his wall, so I remember it pretty well. Let's see, IIRC:

Egg & Bacon
Egg & Spam
Egg, Bacon & Spam
Spam, Bacon & Spam
Spam, Spam, Spam, Egg & Spam
Spam, Spam, Spam, Spam, Spam, Spam, Baked Beans, Spam, Spam, Spam, Spam & Spam
Lobster thermidor aux crevettes with a mornay sauce, garnished with truffel pates, brandy, a fried egg on top and SPAM!

Edit: Wikiquote doesn't have it, but a quote it does have mentions sausage, which I forgot about.

[Phase]

Congrats, Serp! Now if only I could travel through the internets... not related, just stream of conciousness.

[TwoBitWriter]

I am outta here in an hour and a half, for a four day weekend! :smallbiggrin:

Is it a bad thing I really don't want to visit anyone for Thanksgiving? (Non-Americans need not answer.)

[TFT]

...And the four and a half day weekend begins.
Though I have already had two early thanksgiving dinners with family... So it might be boring

Oh well, I still have off.:smallbiggrin:

[Recaiden]

...And the four and a half day weekend begins.
Though I have already had two early thanksgiving dinners with family... So it might be boring

Oh well, I still have off.:smallbiggrin:

There's never anything wrong with an extra long weekend.

[Fostire]

...And the four and a half day weekend begins.
Though I have already had two early thanksgiving dinners with family... So it might be boring

Oh well, I still have off.:smallbiggrin:

To me it's more like a three and a half month long weekend :smalltongue:
Summer vacation!!!!!!!!

[Castaras]

I have a fourday weekend as well, and I'm British. :smallbiggrin: Yay for silly school Interview things and teacher training days.

[Phase]

Yay! Long Weekend! Phase love not working!

[Jjkaybomb]

Whole week off of school!
My siblings all only get three days off. Ha!

[Serpentine]

I've just finished all my work. Uni doesn't start again 'til February.
:smallamused:

[CurlyKitGirl]

CASSIE!: I remember that avvie and the story behind it. Gad to see it back.

Musings. It is less than a month until Christmas meaning it's been about elevn months since I practised my wrapping skills.
I still have it.
Two presents each for six people (one selection pack and one gift) and one each for two others. Fourteen presents to wrap.
My brother came back from walking the dogs and I dragooned him into helping me wrap up; tonight was his debut as a Christmas wrapper. In the time it took him to wrap three presents (with me helping) I'd done the other eleven, admittedly six were before he came home in the space of time it took him to wrap those three pressies.
I am fast and efficient at wrapping things. Started wrapping at five past ten. Finished at twenty to eleven.

[Castaras]

CASSIE!: I remember that avvie and the story behind it. Gad to see it back.


Yay! ^.^ Glad someone does! Because my memory's failed me and I don't...

[CurlyKitGirl]

Admittedly, it's a bit hazy; but I still remember it. Vespe was involved at one point. And it was an insanely cute mini - plot.